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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost

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M

MCD250

Member
Give Charlie a 3f, make his V-Reversal push him out farther than it does now (and if not at least give him some sort of invulnerability when he comes out of it so he can't be freaking punished for using it), give his V-Skill a little more range so he can use it as a poke the way Karin and Ibuki use theirs (or alternatively, let him cancel into it from one of his more viable target combos; that new one they gave him is kinda whack), let him do jumping sobat backwards like Guile.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Nash is one character that should have had a little more variance though, so I can see where he's coming from. Maybe not hit-and-run full stop, but a little more speed won't hurt him. And the meter stealing mechanic is such a cool thing, it'd be nice if his v-skill was able to be used more so he can get stuff going on a constant basis against non-fireball people.
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They could do so much with his V skill and Meter steal mechanic. But they are so underused because they arent "Robust" enough.

His Vskill could have done a lot of different things (Like lifesteal ? Meter steal ? ) or something to really add some depth. But Nobody really uses that retarded V skill target combo , coz it only links of one normal. And nobody uses the Vskill outside of Fireballs. Its not even a great poke and its -5.

Am not complaining about Nash as a character , his moveset is great. But his Vskill could have had a lot more depth apart from just "Use this to negate fireballs". He even uses his Vskill more in story mode than in game.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
mbpm1 said:
I mean I do think there's variance.

It's just that I think SFV is a game with only one or two answers in many scenarios.

"You flipped the coin the other way," is kinda eh as far as that goes. So is "you flipped the coin 2 milliseconds later" aka almost every shimmy situation's resolution.
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I just think it's a bit overblown with how often 4 felt like Setup Fighter. I prefer the poker facing of shimmies over the ol' crouch tech or backdash. But I do think the damage in 5 compounds the issue and I do think the game needs more ability to adapt within a match. The way it feels like a coin flip is due to how much can be capitalized off a single mistake (which in the case of CCs in neutral, can feel completely arbitrary).
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Rickenslacker said:
I just think it's a bit overblown with how often 4 felt like Setup Fighter. I prefer the poker facing of shimmies over the ol' crouch tech or backdash. But I do think the damage in 5 compounds the issue and I do think the game needs more ability to adapt within a match. The way it feels like a coin flip is due to how much can be capitalized off a single mistake (which in the case of CCs in neutral, can feel completely arbitrary).
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2 guesses can be rough. Most characters can win off of that with meter. Meter builds mad fast in this game so that situation will come up more and more as the player does well. So if you lose one round dominatingly > the other player has fullish meter. They will then have to take less guesses to win the next round or two. Also, there is stun to consider and work against. Snowball matches can be pretty frequent with things like that.
 
M

Mizerman

Member
Village said:
I would like more taunts

I would also like taunts that would activate depending on who you are fighting. Like special dialogue if you press the taunt button
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I would not mind this.

MCD250 said:
I'm all for character specific interactions.



MKX did this really well. All the characters had multiple lines of dialogue in their intros for every potential rival in the roster. The animations were always the same, but still, that's a pretty big undertaking given how large the cast of that game was. Would love to see stuff like that in Street Fighter.
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Yeah, I'll give NRS props for that. They nailed the interactions and dialogue in their own way.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
1 wrong guess and loose the entire round off a V-Trigger and one EX

giphy.gif
 
V

Village

Member
mbpm1 said:
is cammy also a clone? maybe she is just mentally 16
Click to expand...

I thought cammy and Decapre were the only clones. The rest of em are just mind controlled. By the way, I like how they actually found T hawks wife/girlfriend whatever, and they didn't bother to call T hawk. They find her in the story, no one calls him.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
MCD250 said:
Give Charlie a 3f, make his V-Reversal push him out farther than it does now (and if not at least give him some sort of invulnerability when he comes out of it so he can't be freaking punished for using it), give his V-Skill a little more range so he can use it as a poke the way Karin and Ibuki use theirs (or alternatively, let him cancel into it from one of his more viable target combos; that new one they gave him is kinda whack), let him do jumping sobat backwards like Guile.
Click to expand...

Honestly just these two changes would help Nash 10x more than the changes they gave him in S2.1.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
TBH that 2nd one with the jumpover FB crossup , was dirty as hell. How do you even react to that? If she neutral jumps does she get a Jump in and land in the front?
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Shadoken said:
They could do so much with his V skill and Meter steal mechanic. But they are so underused because they arent "Robust" enough.

His Vskill could have done a lot of different things (Like lifesteal ? Meter steal ? ) or something to really add some depth. But Nobody really uses that retarded V skill target combo , coz it only links of one normal. And nobody uses the Vskill outside of Fireballs. Its not even a great poke and its -5.

Am not complaining about Nash as a character , his moveset is great. But his Vskill could have had a lot more depth apart from just "Use this to negate fireballs". He even uses his Vskill more in story mode than in game.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point, kinda. And I think I have too, for a while. Thinking about it. changing a bunch of v-skills to do more is just a bandaid on a wound. Let's say we give Nash more stuff to do with his v-skill. That still doesn't solve how he gets dunked because of the lack of defensive options on wakeup.

The problem is, and I think someone put it right pages ago, the game doesn't offer many ways out of a knockdown. It's guess city. And while guesses are a part of fighting games, the lack of overall defense makes it feel like you are always guessing all the time.

SFV also has a lot of character on character specific things leading into other things or to minimize damage. One of the matches on Topanga had Momo take the jab trade because it was a better option for spacing or something. I forgot. The point was, specific stuff like that for defense takes a far higher plane of playing than most people are going to reach.

Like, Nash already has a bunch of great tools. He can steal life, meter, and get v-meter fast by poking you. He doesn't need that much else (besides obvious balance changes). But he needs to be able to work.

The upcoming balance patch addresses this for a good portion of the cast on the toolset side, but still doesn't give enough options for defense. They could easily implement a new wakeup option and solve much of this, and since 4 had it, I don't doubt they are sussing that out now.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
TheSpoiler said:
You are missing the point, kinda. And I think I have too, for a while. Thinking about it. changing a bunch of v-skills to do more is just a bandaid on a wound. Let's say we give Nash more stuff to do with his v-skill. That still doesn't solve how he gets dunked because of the lack of defensive options on wakeup.

The problem is, and I think someone put it right pages ago, the game doesn't offer many ways out of a knockdown. It's guess city. And while guesses are a part of fighting games, the lack of overall defense makes it feel like you are always guessing all the time.

SFV also has a lot of character on character specific things leading into other things or to minimize damage. One of the matches on Topanga had Momo take the jab trade because it was a better option for spacing or something. I forgot. The point was, specific stuff like that for defense takes a far higher plane of playing than most people are going to reach.

Like, Nash already has a bunch of great tools. He can steal life, meter, and get v-meter fast by poking you. He doesn't need that much else (besides obvious balance changes). But he needs to be able to work.

The upcoming balance patch addresses this for a good portion of the cast on the toolset side, but still doesn't give enough options for defense. They could easily implement a new wakeup option and solve much of this, and since 4 had it, I don't doubt they are sussing that out now.
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Wasnt talking about his Tier strength , thats a different discussion. Only about how his V skill could have been more interesting.

He uses it more in story mode that just absorbing FBs to build VGauge. Am just saying the V System was SFV's big thing. Yet its very underwhelming for many characters.
 
R

Ryce

Member
I played through the story mode again out of boredom, and Gill has a gem on his forehead in the end credits. Was that fixed in a patch or something? I swear it wasn't there when story mode launched.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Rickenslacker said:
I can tell the difference between Punk and Justin's Karin in SF5. Du and Daigo's Guile. Daigo and Tokido's Ryu. Does anyone even use regular Ressenha outside of Punk? Expression, in terms of fighting games, is how effectively you use the tools within your character's limitations, and that very much exists here.
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I agree, although SFIV had more mechanics which made it seem that players can utilise to "express" themselves with, I think we can also see that expression between players in SFV - albeit on a different scale. We have to remember it took SFIV years to be what it was and SFV has only scratched the surface so far.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Could they patch out corpse carrying w/ dashes at all? It seems like something that's a massive net negative to the game w/ corner being too easy to achieve in it.
 
K

Kashiwaba

Member
Ucchedavāda;234109711 said:
That was a great interview.
Thanks for sharing!
Click to expand...

I just watched this interview, and there is something i couldn't get over, this guy is mad because Balrog is so overpowered yet he was using Sagat during SF4 vanilla O:.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Shadoken said:
Wasnt talking about his Tier strength , thats a different discussion. Only about how his V skill could have been more interesting.

He uses it more in story mode that just absorbing FBs to build VGauge. Am just saying the V System was SFV's big thing. Yet its very underwhelming for many characters.
Click to expand...

But like I said, if he was able to work better as a character, that v-skill would be more important/fun. But I do think a few of the v-skills could use some more work.
 
V

vulva

Member
Kashiwaba said:
So Capcom had to the time to patch this but P2 still can't accept rematch, ah Capcom and their priorities.
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Because a UI/UX engineer is the same person as a character modeler, right? Don't be an idiot.
Kashiwaba said:
I just watched this interview, and there is something i couldn't get over, this guy is mad because Balrog is so overpowered yet he was using Sagat during SF4 vanilla O:.
Click to expand...
Seth and Akuma were so clearly stronger/more broken than Vanilla Sagat. it's not even close.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Dahbomb said:
Oh I can easily tell the difference between ChrisG's Guile and Du's Guile.

ChrisG's Guile is far more textbook Guile where as Du's Guile is more in your face. ChrisG's Guile highly favors the st.M pressure over Du. Du is better at Flash Kicks than ChrisG who relies more on the d+HP anti air. Du uses more America's Favorite Punch over ChrisG. In fact Du is overall better at maintaining charges than ChrisG is because he has more experience. But ChrisG has better defense.

And that's more broad differences, there are smaller differences between the two that you can pick up when watching both of them play.
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Your analytical skills are magnificent. I was wondering what the difference was between them two but couldn't quite put my finger on it but you got it down perfectly.

Rickenslacker said:
Oh ye of little faith. Daigo's sandbagging is the ultimate form of expression. (one example aside, I do think there's a good amount of variance in playstyles, and in fact a good amount of character variety that the overlap isn't a big issue to begin with)
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Definitely agree with this. One of the reasons why I like watching SFV.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
MCD250 said:
Don't think I agree with the notion that there is no individuality in playstyles in this game.



*Do* agree with the notion that Balrog is busted as hell (though I wish Bonchan had expressed himself differently when talking about that).
Click to expand...

Yeah same. "Retarded" seems a little harsh, offensive and unprofessional from him. Again, that could be due to mistranslation.
 
E

ElFly

Member
TheSpoiler said:
You are missing the point, kinda. And I think I have too, for a while. Thinking about it. changing a bunch of v-skills to do more is just a bandaid on a wound. Let's say we give Nash more stuff to do with his v-skill. That still doesn't solve how he gets dunked because of the lack of defensive options on wakeup.

The problem is, and I think someone put it right pages ago, the game doesn't offer many ways out of a knockdown. It's guess city. And while guesses are a part of fighting games, the lack of overall defense makes it feel like you are always guessing all the time.

Like, Nash already has a bunch of great tools. He can steal life, meter, and get v-meter fast by poking you. He doesn't need that much else (besides obvious balance changes). But he needs to be able to work.
Click to expand...

eh, the whole defense problems would be mostly fixed if V-Reversals were actually good

you are spending potentially your most valuable resource, V-bar. it should be a tide turner, but instead if is a complete waste and a huge risk
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
ElFly said:
eh, the whole defense problems would be mostly fixed if V-Reversals were actually good

you are spending potentially your most valuable resource, V-bar. it should be a tide turner, but instead if is a complete waste and a huge risk
Click to expand...

Most people don't want to spend meter to have a defensive option though. I'd be fine with either or, personally, but I feel like the general populous doesn't want to spend meter to get out of situations (for the most part)
 
E

ElFly

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Most people don't want to spend meter to have a defensive option though. I'd be fine with either or, personally, but I feel like the general populous doesn't want to spend meter to get out of situations (for the most part)
Click to expand...

well then most people should be getting rightly bullied and rushed on for being so stingy

of course this should go in hand with V-skills giving more meter across the cast -of course, you still need to gain some V-meter from getting hit, so people can gain a V-reversal if they are getting beaten- but making V-Reversals good would be the biggest part in making defense worth it; balacing V-bar gains would be secondary -and not even defense related-


then again, the Nash in the gif posted here gains V-Trigger just before the last grab, and Nash's V-trigger is maybe the best defensive option in the game so nothing needed to change for him to turn that tide
 
V

Village

Member
Just had a very fun session playing with balrog

Can I say, I love his battle outfit, I know the suit is dope. And his normal outfit is like an amazing boxer hood. But yo, just the hood, pants and sneakers with the chains and rings speaks to me. The description is that its his training/ gym clothes, I wish more characters had that, the work out gear. Ken kind of has it incoerpeated into his main outfit, he had an outfit that was just that in 4
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Most people don't want to spend meter to have a defensive option though. I'd be fine with either or, personally, but I feel like the general populous doesn't want to spend meter to get out of situations (for the most part)
Click to expand...

I feel like ex meter would be a good meter to take from. Trade one bar to push them off you. Keep v meter the way it is with grey life damage.

Or maybe use the stun bar somehow.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Wait I kinda like that. I mean since you get so much meter in this game you'll be able to use it a lot but you won't be able to kill so easily. That's kind of a nice trade.

ElFly said:
well then most people should be getting rightly bullied and rushed on for being so stingy

of course this should go in hand with V-skills giving more meter across the cast -of course, you still need to gain some V-meter from getting hit, so people can gain a V-reversal if they are getting beaten- but making V-Reversals good would be the biggest part in making defense worth it; balacing V-bar gains would be secondary -and not even defense related-


then again, the Nash in the gif posted here gains V-Trigger just before the last grab, and Nash's V-trigger is maybe the best defensive option in the game so nothing needed to change for him to turn that tide
Click to expand...

I mean I agree with you. But people want to feel safe all the time lol.
 
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