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[Reizo Ryuu]

oh yeah poor cammy who has no options and no walkspeed either

who said this?

 

[Rymuth]

#TeamEdward

 

[Edzi]

SFV is relatively balanced. Even with all my complaining about Ken, I've stated multiple times they just switched around the tiers and now even more characters are viable. My issue is, we had relative balance even in S1, where the top of the heap just needed small adjustments to moves and abilities that were being abused.

Always a new character winning in tourney days even with "cheap" Mika. Chun despite being unanimously considered the best, never won tourney's. They settled for half the cast being great and fun and the other have been good, if they would have mostly buffed, I'm pretty sure they could have reached VF5 level balanced where 90% of the cast is great. Along with that, and the sparse updates, and low amount of modes, SFV is a great achievement from Capcom. The base game is lightyears ahead, but in all honesty they are moving at a snail pace to improve upon it, 2 years, it should already have 35 characters, 4-5 modes for casual & online players, and big tie ins to garner hype like a Dante from DMC or characters from Sonys IP.

SF2 was the biggest thing ever because of its gameplay yes, but today, games have expanded so much, you have to offer a lot of content to please a wider user base. By virtue of the competition being so much higher, it's a must. SFV should have launched this year with 25 characters, Arcade, Training, Would-Tour, Survival, Battle Lounge, and MP modes, one new character every month after release, and waaaaaaaaay more costumes than what's available with more customization over them.

If I was at the helm, I would have just delayed the game and sold a $30, digital only beta.

And just to add, the Amazon reviews are horrible! Yes, some salty X1 fanboys obviously are a part of it, but it's such a big screw up on Capcom to treat my favorite franchise of all time like this. Makes my tummy hurt when I see people bash the game ;0(

My only rebuttal is, 'it's gameplay is great'

I really hope Sneakers is speaking from a balanced perspective when he bigs up the direction Capcom is taking it though. They really need more than just a few characters. Just good QoL improvements but a much much faster paced Capcom please.

I don't even think I agree with this anymore. I guess it depends on how you define balanced, but this game has a group of characters that play completely differently from the lower tiers and dominate in such a way that it sucks the fun out of playing. Top tier is essentially about being absurdly oppressive and constantly putting your opponent into as many guessing game situations as possible. While I guess you can call that technically balanced since a large chunk of the top tiers/upper mids are mostly viable against each other, it's straight up no fun to play.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I installed the Windows 10 Creator update today (why the fuck did i do that?) and now SFV runs in slow motion. Anyone know a solution other than rolling back to previous Windows?

Have you tried to re-install your video card drivers?

There's a tool that'll let you clean out completely before you reinstall, that might help:
https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

 

[ElFly]

who said this?

whatever extra option akuma gets is balanced by cammy's extra walkspeed and other tools

if anything, capcom could easily buff akuma's health above cammy and he still would be p bad, worse than cammy anyway -altho then the glass cannon part makes less sense-

 

[robotzombie]

what if we are all wrong and ed is short for edmond

 

[ShinMaruku]

It's Eduardo as a reference to Pr Rog.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I don't even think I agree with this anymore. I guess it depends on how you define balanced, but this game has a group of characters that play completely differently from the lower tiers and dominate in such a way that it sucks the fun out of playing. Top tier is essentially about being absurdly oppressive and constantly putting your opponent into as many guessing game situations as possible. While I guess you can call that technically balanced since a large chunk of the top tiers/upper mids are mostly viable against each other, it's straight up no fun to play.

well you have the outliers who have so many bad match-ups, yeah, it can be no fun to play against the top tier. It's especially frustrating with someone of equal or lesser skill than you.

But we have to be reasonable here, and take our personal character preference aside. There's 24 characters, 16 of them are viable without a question, the rest are good, and the bottom tier with Fang, Alex, and Juri need obvious help. Characters like Nash, Ryu, Chun etc...were nerfed to get to where they are but we've experienced better versions of these characters already.

Bottom line, you can win with most of the cast. That's a balanced game. What you are talking about is more play style oriented perhaps. Like there needs to be more defensive options. There needs to be a balance with players who want to read their opponents, play patient, press few timely buttons and not play the oppressive offense that creates 50/50's all the time. I agree with this, and it's why I said everyone should have parry. when I first played the beta.

If EVERY interaction is a potential 50/50, then people play a lot smarter. If everyone could do what Ryu/Akuma/Alex could as a V-skill, I think it would solve a lot of issues with the current meta and it's reliance on corner pressure and 'attack attack attack'. Universal parry (where everyone has their own animation for it) and improved speeds on all fireballs I think would improve defensive play.

The second one may actually happen, but who knows what they will do to address the defense issue.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Have you tried to re-install your video card drivers?

There's a tool that'll let you clean out completely before you reinstall, that might help:
https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

Rolled back windows and all is well. Fuck MS fuck PC gaming fuck capcom etc.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

whatever extra option akuma gets is balanced by cammy's extra walkspeed and other tools

if anything, capcom could easily buff akuma's health above cammy and he still would be p bad, worse than cammy anyway -altho then the glass cannon part makes less sense-

Cammy and akuma have nearly the same walkspeeds.

 

[sixteen-bit]

what if we are all wrong and ed is short for edmond

Mike Ross bout to get 4th place @evo

 

[MrCarter]

And just to add, the Amazon reviews are horrible! Yes, some salty X1 fanboys obviously are a part of it, but it's such a big screw up on Capcom to treat my favorite franchise of all time like this. Makes my tummy hurt when I see people bash the game ;0(

My only rebuttal is, 'it's gameplay is great'

I really hope Sneakers is speaking from a balanced perspective when he bigs up the direction Capcom is taking it though. They really need more than just a few characters. Just good QoL improvements but a much much faster paced Capcom please.

In UK it's so bizarre.



87 people loved it and 82 didn't. Then we have the in-between. Such a weird, love/hate relationship people have with the game.

 

[Edzi]

well you have the outliers who have so many bad match-ups, yeah, it can be no fun to play against the top tier. It's especially frustrating with someone of equal or lesser skill than you.

But we have to be reasonable here, and take our personal character preference aside. There's 24 characters, 16 of them are viable without a question, the rest are good, and the bottom tier with Fang, Alex, and Juri need obvious help. Characters like Nash, Ryu, Chun etc...were nerfed to get to where they are but we've experienced better versions of these characters already.

Bottom line, you can win with most of the cast. That's a balanced game. What you are talking about is more play style oriented perhaps. Like there needs to be more defensive options. There needs to be a balance with players who want to read their opponents, play patient, press few timely buttons and not play the oppressive offense that creates 50/50's all the time. I agree with this, and it's why I said everyone should have parry. when I first played the beta.

If EVERY interaction is a potential 50/50, then people play a lot smarter. If everyone could do what Ryu/Akuma/Alex could as a V-skill, I think it would solve a lot of issues with the current meta and it's reliance on corner pressure and 'attack attack attack'. Universal parry (where everyone has their own animation for it) and improved speeds on all fireballs I think would improve defensive play.

The second one may actually happen, but who knows what they will do to address the defense issue.

That's kind of my point though. Yeah, a good chunk of the cast is technically viable and they can technically win, but it's not particularly fun when the opponent only has to guess right once or twice while you might have to guess right 6 or 7 times to get the win. It also doesn't help that the top tiers are also usually the easiest to play, and don't really require much thought. Urien is a testament to that, since even I can pick him up with barely any training and actually go toe to toe with some people's mains.

 

[Shadoken]

I still agree with what Bonchan said. The gap between Top tier and Bottom tier is tooo big in this game.
It seems like characters whos strength is ONLY strong neutral game arent good in this game because of how the meta is. You need heavy damage,Offense or Mixup. With Guile being the only exception coz he is overtuned af to keep up.

This game might not be the most broken SF game , but because it is the easiest to play. Everybody is experiencing the Balance issues. Usually since the game would be hard , at low levels of play Tier lists wouldn't matter as much. Because nobody would be skilled enough to use the really OP stuff at low levels. It also doesnt help that the top tier are also the easiest to play , since they seem to be focussed on mixups and not something like neutral.

But apart from the all that the absolute worst part of the balance is the V system. Like if you had a tier list just for V triggers and V skills it would go all the way from S++ to F-. Thats how badly balanced it is. Which is ironic , since Capcom mentioned how the V system was made to improve the balance of the game.

 

[mbpm1]

SFV Simulation

 

[MrCarter]

But apart from the all that the absolute worst part of the balance is the V system. Like if you had a tier list just for V triggers and V skills it would go all the way from S++ to F-. Thats how badly balanced it is. Which is ironic , since Capcom mentioned how the V system was made to improve the balance of the game.

Although I think the V-skills could use more variation I think most of the V-triggers are great and gives that sense of variation, uniqueness and individuality from each character. They just need to scale down the OP triggers that characters like Balrog, Laura and maybe Urien has.

SFV Simulation

That looks so cool.

 

[Zombegoast]

SFV Simulation

No metallic sphere juggle?

 

[TheSpoiler]

It's kind of a common problem in fighting games. The system benefits characters, and let's them "work" while other characters have to try harder to get their "work" in. The game is still balanced, but when Rog can do dumb damage off of stupid shit it just feels unfair and unbalanced. It also doesn't help that defensive options are basically being offensive and knowing really specific things or get bopped.

It's like you have to build up to have your fun while Rog gets to have his fun all damn day. I get that frustration.

I don't think it's always applicable though. Some situations just require people to do lab work because there are real ways around some bullshit. But some things, like Rog's damage, are too OD and need scaling regardless.

 

[Shadoken]

What pisses me off the most about certain characters V trigger is how its safe on block.
Like I dont mind it being safe or plus on block , If the V trigger is just single use or doesnt do a lot of damage.

But chars like Laura,Rog,Urien,Necalli,Ibuki and many others. Just throw out whatever the fuk they want and go to V trigger with absolutely no thought behind it. There is no risk involved , because its not even a waste. They can still do their V trigger damage in their next combo coz it lasts for that long.

Its not about character balance , I dont like the fact that you HAVE to hold this mixup regardless of the scenario.

 

[mbpm1]

What pisses me off the most about certain characters V trigger is how its safe on block.
Like I dont mind it being safe or plus on block , If the V trigger is just single use or doesnt do a lot of damage.

But chars like Laura,Rog,Urien,Necalli,Ibuki and many others. Just throw out whatever the fuk they want and go to V trigger with absolutely no thought behind it. There is no risk involved , because its not even a waste. They can still do their V trigger damage in their next combo coz it lasts for that long.

Its not about character balance , I dont like the fact that you HAVE to hold this mixup regardless of the scenario.

It's why I just walk myself into range to try to bait them hitting me and cancelling into v-trigger most of the time.

Just get it over with.

Doesn't work bc they can hit confirm it though

 

[Omnistalgic]

That's kind of my point though. Yeah, a good chunk of the cast is technically viable and they can technically win, but it's not particularly fun when the opponent only has to guess right once or twice while you might have to guess right 6 or 7 times to get the win. It also doesn't help that the top tiers are also usually the easiest to play, and don't really require much thought. Urien is a testament to that, since even I can pick him up with barely any training and actually go toe to toe with some people's mains.

True...the 50/50 needs to be toned down...

I still agree with what Bonchan said. The gap between Top tier and Bottom tier is tooo big in this game.
It seems like characters whos strength is ONLY strong neutral game arent good in this game because of how the meta is. You need heavy damage,Offense or Mixup. With Guile being the only exception coz he is overtuned af to keep up.

This game might not be the most broken SF game , but because it is the easiest to play. Everybody is experiencing the Balance issues. Usually since the game would be hard , at low levels of play Tier lists wouldn't matter as much. Because nobody would be skilled enough to use the really OP stuff at low levels. It also doesnt help that the top tier are also the easiest to play , since they seem to be focussed on mixups and not something like neutral.

But apart from the all that the absolute worst part of the balance is the V system. Like if you had a tier list just for V triggers and V skills it would go all the way from S++ to F-. Thats how badly balanced it is. Which is ironic , since Capcom mentioned how the V system was made to improve the balance of the game.

Well said. I think people like Momochi will complain enough for changes though. Him and Punk spacing game really shows you they are another level of play, but as stated, Balrog, or Urien can render all that useless with two wrong guesses. Heck, Momochi even busted out Ibuki and kept getting 50/50's after every jump in.

If the game is gonna devolve into 50/50's..Give everyone that option, 3rd strike two baby. Reset the meta for the entire community, not just if your character got nerfed.

 

[myco666]

Fucking Guile. Just fuck this MU, fuck this game.

 

[mbpm1]

Fucking Guile. Just fuck this MU, fuck this game.

who you play?

 

[myco666]

who you play?

Birdie. I really don't know what to do in this MU.

 

[TheSpoiler]

That taste.

I know that salt anywhere.

He plays Bison.

 

[CountBlack]

What pisses me off the most about certain characters V trigger is how its safe on block.
Like I dont mind it being safe or plus on block , If the V trigger is just single use or doesnt do a lot of damage.

But chars like Laura,Rog,Urien,Necalli,Ibuki and many others. Just throw out whatever the fuk they want and go to V trigger with absolutely no thought behind it. There is no risk involved , because its not even a waste. They can still do their V trigger damage in their next combo coz it lasts for that long.

Its not about character balance , I dont like the fact that you HAVE to hold this mixup regardless of the scenario.

Yea it's something that should be changed IMO. You shouldn't get a free 50/50 off of cancelling into V-Trigger. You should be rewarded for a hit, not for a miss lol.

I think canceling into VT from a normal that was blocked should be like -1 or 0. Only issue I have with this is that Zangief is buffed from it lol

 

[MrCarter]

You should be rewarded for a hit, not for a miss lol.

*cough* FADC *cough*

 

[Shadoken]

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2016/full/explanation_2016_full_01.pdf

Looks like SF series has reached 39m in sales. Might even reach 40m by the end of the year since Switch users seem hungry for any title. I can see USF2 selling well.

Though it would be hilarious is USF2 outsold SFV.

 

[Shadoken]

*cough* FADC *cough*

And it was a pretty big complaint people kept bringing up , until finally they made it punishable on block. Which is why it irks me that Capcom didnt bother to learn from their previous games biggest complaints.


Another cool thing about it is ,since SFIV had ACTUAL defensive options. You can backdash and bait a DP.

 

[CountBlack]

*cough* FADC *cough*

Which is what they nerfed in Ultra at least. I never said the system was perfect. You also never responded to me about what made SF4's systems feel bloated outside of FADC/Focus

 

[Zombegoast]

Balrog feels like he was designed by someone who is tired of loosing with him.

How is it that a move that is projectile and throw becomes safe on block and becomes + the longer you hold it and be strike invincible?

This is just backwards what Capcom been trying to do with invincible reversal. Bonchan said it best about whoever designed him

 

[KidA Seven]

If I put down this whole plate.

You gotta put down that trailer Capcom.

We got Kolin's trailer 3 months ago. What are they waiting for man?

 

[MrCarter]

And it was a pretty big complaint people kept bringing up , until finally they made it punishable on block. Which is why it irks me that Capcom didnt bother to learn from their previous games biggest complaints.


Another cool thing about it is ,since SFIV had ACTUAL defensive options. You can backdash and bait a DP.

I'm just glad they learnt enough not to bring that shit back. If someone missed/whiffed/blocked why on earth should they get a free pass via a FADC? They already committed to the move so if they were unsuccessful they should either be punished or learn to refrain from doing it again. I dunno Shadoken, there's just something about that games systems I had a hard time trying to grasp.

 

[mbpm1]

We got Kolin's trailer 3 months ago. What are they waiting for man?

They need to show the CFN changes in the trailer

I'm just glad they learnt enough not to bring that shit back. If someone missed/whiffed/blocked why on earth should they get a free pass via a FADC?. They already committed to the move so if they were unsuccessful they should either be punished or learn to refrain from doing it again. I dunno Shadoken, there's just something about that games systems I had a hard time trying to grasp.

You can't FADC on whiff.

Meter gained much more slowly in that game so you would get like two attempts of that per round, similar to 2 bar V-trigger here.

 

[CountBlack]

I'm just glad they learnt enough not to bring that shit back. If someone missed/whiffed/blocked why on earth should they get a free pass via a FADC? They already committed to the move so if they were unsuccessful they should either be punished or learn to refrain from doing it again. I dunno Shadoken, there's just something about that games systems I had a hard time trying to grasp.

Apart from DP's, which other moves on FADC did you have a problem with?

 

[ArjanN]

We should just keep guessing dates, if everyone does it we should have most covered and someone will be right.

Oh, so they same way GAF handles E3 rumors.

 

[Edzi]

I'm just glad they learnt enough not to bring that shit back. If someone missed/whiffed/blocked why on earth should they get a free pass via a FADC? They already committed to the move so if they were unsuccessful they should either be punished or learn to refrain from doing it again. I dunno Shadoken, there's just something about that games systems I had a hard time trying to grasp.

I'll admit that I barely spent any time with SF4 compared to V, but I always hear this complaint and I'm not sure I get it. FADC cost TWO BARS, if anything the problem was the existence of Ultra since it eliminated the need for meter management.

 

[sixteen-bit]

We got Kolin's trailer 3 months ago. What are they waiting for man?

May 11th for Caj or Garrett to make one

 

[MrCarter]

Which is what they nerfed in Ultra at least. I never said the system was perfect. You also never responded to me about what made SF4's systems feel bloated outside of FADC/Focus

Apologies I didn't respond. I was on holiday and this thread was skipping ahead at lightning speed. Part of why I felt it was bloated I mentioned in my post above and the other was so many OS's and the unnecessary 1-frame links. I'm not saying SFV is perfect either (clearly) but it's definitely a far more honest game than SFIV. SFIV having a lot more defensive options as time went by (OS, FADC, focus, red focus etc) is probably why some people have a hard time trying to adjust to SFV which is why Capcom need to make V-reversals (or create a new mechanic) to balance this issue.

 

[Shadoken]

I'm just glad they learnt enough not to bring that shit back. If someone missed/whiffed/blocked why on earth should they get a free pass via a FADC? They already committed to the move so if they were unsuccessful they should either be punished or learn to refrain from doing it again. I dunno Shadoken, there's just something about that games systems I had a hard time trying to grasp.

See here is the Key difference. in SFIV FADC required you to use Super meter. Which is gained mostly by landing hits or being on the offense. You can build super meter just by blocking and getting hit , but its not as much. Basically Super meter rewards the better player.
So if someone is extending their pressure by using FADC , it feels well deserved because they earned that meter.

in SFV however V trigger is built by getting beat up ( in 90% of the cases ). So THAT changes everything.
The issue with SFV is kinda like Rose Ultra 2 in SFIV , you just HAVE to hold it. Except Rose Ultra 2 isnt as good as some of the V triggers in this game.


Imagine if SFIV had FADCs use Ultra Meter instead and you still have enough meter to do an UltraCombo. THAT is how SFV is right now.

 

[TheSpoiler]

We got Kolin's trailer 3 months ago. What are they waiting for man?

We were supposed to get a trailer in April, along with a character (and the patch).

So.

Feb - Trailer and character
March - Info (sometimes content)
April - SUPPOSED TO BE a trailer and a character

But due to wanting to make the CFN better and having the character bundled in the patch's code, he comes with the delayed CFN update. Whenever that is.

The trailer got pushed back because of Marvel last week and I presume Golden Week this week. Meaning Monday or Tuesday of next week, unless someone gets back to the office tomorrow, which i doubt.

 

[Blueblur1]

Tomorrow's Children's Day so the JP staff will probably still be out of the office. I don't remember them ever announcing anything on Mondays so its gonna be Tuesday or Wednesday, I think.

 

[mbpm1]

Imagine if SFIV had FADCs use Ultra Meter instead and you still have enough meter to do an UltraCombo. THAT is how SFV is right now.

Well, that, and the FADC's put you in an install state that enhances your ability to attack normally.

 

[CountBlack]

Apologies I didn't respond. I was on holiday and this thread was skipping ahead at lightning speed. Part of why I felt it was bloated I mentioned in my post above and the other was so many OS's and the unnecessary 1-frame links. I'm not saying SFV is perfect either (clearly) but it's definitely a far more honest game than SFIV. SFIV having a lot more defensive options as time went by (OS, FADC, focus, red focus etc) is probably why some people have a hard time trying to adjust to SFV which is why Capcom need to make V-reversals (or create a new mechanic) to balance this issue.

OS' I wouldn't say are given mechanics to make a game feel necessarily bloated imo since they're mostly unintended. Nor would I say 1f links are a mechanic either. SFV is an honest game in that yea you gotta constantly guess 50/50's and hold a lot of shit. I do agree that either V-Reversals need a bit of an overhaul or they just need to add something else to make the snowball effect of this game not as overwhelming.

Imagine playing against Seth without having defensive options lmao, that's how I feel when I go against Necalli.

I don't understand why they made the most hyper offensive FG on the market and took away most defensive mechanics and made most AA's kinda trash at that. I just don't understand

 

[mbpm1]

OS' I wouldn't say are given mechanics to make a game feel necessarily bloated imo since they're mostly unintended. Nor would I say 1f links are a mechanic either. SFV is an honest game in that yea you gotta constantly guess 50/50's and hold a lot of shit. I do agree that either V-Reversals need a bit of an overhaul or they just need to add something else to make the snowball effect of this game not as overwhelming.

Imagine playing against Seth without having defensive options lmao, that's how I feel when I go against Necalli.

I don't understand why they made the most hyper offensive FG on the market and took away most defensive mechanics and made most AA's kinda trash at that. I just don't understand

Blame Woshige

 

[XenoRaven]

OS' I wouldn't say are given mechanics to make a game feel necessarily bloated imo since they're mostly unintended. Nor would I say 1f links are a mechanic either. SFV is an honest game in that yea you gotta constantly guess 50/50's and hold a lot of shit. I do agree that either V-Reversals need a bit of an overhaul or they just need to add something else to make the snowball effect of this game not as overwhelming.

Imagine playing against Seth without having defensive options lmao, that's how I feel when I go against Necalli.

I don't understand why they made the most hyper offensive FG on the market and took away most defensive mechanics and made most AA's kinda trash at that. I just don't understand

People complained about SFIV being too defensive and they hired people from the community who thought SFIV was too defensive.

 

[CountBlack]

Blame Woshige

At least Guilty Gear has defensive mechanics to help deal with all the shit coming at you lol

 

[MrCarter]

See here is the Key difference. in SFIV FADC required you to use Super meter. Which is gained mostly by landing hits or being on the offense. You can build super meter just by blocking and getting hit , but its not as much. Basically Super meter rewards the better player.
So if someone is extending their pressure by using FADC , it feels well deserved because they earned that meter.

in SFV however V trigger is built by getting beat up ( in 90% of the cases ). So THAT changes everything.
The issue with SFV is kinda like Rose Ultra 2 in SFIV , you just HAVE to hold it. Except Rose Ultra 2 isnt as good as some of the V triggers in this game.


Imagine if SFIV had FADCs use Ultra Meter instead and you still have enough meter to do an UltraCombo. THAT is how SFV is right now.

You see I still don't get that. If they commit to a move and it's unsuccessful they should still be able to be punished for it regardless of it being a dp or not. Not rewarded. In SFV although V-bar is built quickly the way they use the V-Trigger (depending on the player) is what makes or breaks the "comeback" factor but in SFIV one hit from a scrubby ultra you lose almost half of your life. I appreciate you explaining it to me but I don't think I'll ever like that games system man lol.

 

[XenoRaven]

You see I still don't get that. If they commit to a move and it's unsuccessful they should still be able to be punished for it regardless of it being a dp or not. Not rewarded. In SFV although V-bar is built quickly the way they use the V-Trigger (depending on the player) is what makes or breaks the "comeback" factor but in SFIV one hit from a scrubby ultra you lose almost half of your life. I appreciate you explaining it to me but I don't think I'll ever like that games system man lol.

The same thing can happen with one hit into a VT cancel in V.

 

[mbpm1]

You see I still don't get that. If they commit to a move and it's unsuccessful they should still be able to be punished for it regardless of it being a dp or not. Not rewarded. In SFV although V-bar is built quickly the way they use the V-Trigger (depending on the player) is what makes or breaks the "comeback" factor but in SFIV one hit from a scrubby ultra you lose almost half of your life. I appreciate you explaining it to me but I don't think I'll ever like that games system man lol.

One hit from a random heavy > v-trigger > v-trigger combo leads to the same thing tho

Sometimes without spending much of either bar. Also instant corner from it sometimes.