TheSpoiler
Member
E Ryu was boring because people did the same shit with him every round. But to be fair that was at the end point of SF4 life
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
- Status
True. Ever since beta 1 of SFV, when they took away links from Ryu, I've found him less appealing than any version of 4. He's still my main because I'm ass (wavering back and forth between Gold and Ultra Silver) and need a solid go to, but I find Akuma, Rog, and Nash way more fun.
TheTylerRob
Member
Let's be real, the main reason SFV sucks is because it's too much like 2 but with input lag.
lucebuce12
Member
The lack of proper anti airs/damage from AAs bothered me more.
And the DP nerf isn't helping on that front.
And the DP nerf isn't helping on that front.
TheSpoiler
Member
They can keep the DP nerf since a ton of characters are benefiting from it. Just buff AAs across the board and buff v-reversals and the four lowest tier characters and we got some soup.
lucebuce12
Member
fixed that for you
TheSpoiler
Member
🍛🍛🍛🍛🍛
SixMachine
Member
SF2 had better normals and fireballs, 2 really big criticisms with how SF5 currently plays at the moment. I think making normals less stubby would do wonders for the the neutral game, Xian also wrote a post on twitter in regards to this.
So, technical question:
I knock you down, you wake up with a 3 frame jab and I go for a meaty throw. The first two frames after wake-up are throw invincible. Is this pretty much a 1 frame input?
Or I guess it's 2 frames, since throws have 2 active frames!?
That would explain why I'm having such a hard time doing meaty throws.
I knock you down, you wake up with a 3 frame jab and I go for a meaty throw. The first two frames after wake-up are throw invincible. Is this pretty much a 1 frame input?
Or I guess it's 2 frames, since throws have 2 active frames!?
That would explain why I'm having such a hard time doing meaty throws.
People keep believing Byron is one of the silhouettes so at this point even Ken's son is an upcoming character.
Fireballs were good. They did damage, they had less recovery, more block stun, more chip, they moved faster.
Fireballs suck now. They have tons of recovery, they're slow, they do very little damage and chip.
But you're such a fanboy for this game, I don't know why I bother responding.
J_Macgrady
Member
Nope. This is still GOAT.
Word. My go to outfit for Laura
LincolnTunnel
Member
Did they really make Streetwise canon? I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand, it's a terrible game with an insane plot that makes no sense, but on the other hand Cody is given such a high dose of magic glowing pain killers that he turns into one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, which is just batshit enough to be awesome.
TLD is actually the only one employed at Capcom's PR department
TheSpoiler
Member
If I had to modify the fireballs in this game, it'd be per character. Depending on the character, it's a completely different usage than in previous games. Like Laura's is obviously more for setups and defense than straight zoning. I wouldn't touch that one.
But Ryu's deserves some more hitstun and a little bit more damage maybe? For Akuma, I'd keep everything the same since it's mostly for combos and long range pokes, BUT I'd increase the stun damage. Did you know that the longer the fireball goes, the more stun it builds? Increase that. Give it more utility in that regard.
Guile's is a little strong, but Nash should get his reversed to how it was I think.
Urien's is fine as it is. FANG could use help I think. And so on.
In general, the fireballs have become less about zoning in some cases and more about suiting the playstyles, but some characters don't get that benefit. Especially poor Ryu. A few characters should be allowed to straight zone with it though.
Colours 2, 8 and 10 are perfect.
Employee of the month, every month.
lucebuce12
Member
I've mentioned this before but they did something pretty clever with FANG's upballs. Personally I think it's to compensate for his st.hk being slower but regardless, they made it so that while in V-Trigger the balls are spaced further apart so that the overall period of blockstun/hitstun is higher. Makes it much easier to get a setup or hitconfirm off of EX poison balls cancel into dash or medium/far upballs cancel into EX slide.
It's stuff like this that shows that whatever vision they have for the character (and honestly the game in general) is a good one. But damn if they don't keep doing the good ol "one step forward, two steps back" routine.
Can you blame him? First his best friend beats him up, then his girlfriend tells him she is the pregnants, then he goes to prison.
Agreed with all this.
I agree with this. I was mostly referring to the shotos, anyway. I think Guile is perfect. Nash's fireball should be better, Laura's shouldn't stay out so long, and the others work as they should.
TheSpoiler
Member
Laura's isn't too bad with how long it stays out. I think it feels like it shouldn't because she's already strong in other areas, so when she gets the nerfs (because we know that shit is coming), they might wanna leave it as is. But I don't know enough about Laura to call that.
As for Ken, I'm not sure. It's pretty fast and I don't see Momo getting punished for throwing it out like Ryu does, so I don't know if that needs to be altered. Ryu needs that work.
And I take what I said about Akuma back. I'd have to see more from him to gauge how the stun thing plays into people's gameplan, but it'd be kinda broken if he could get a quarter of stun off of a few fireballs and go in for a combo. I've seen Tokido do that a few times and it's already pretty great, just takes conditioning and good spacing.
Did not know that about FANG. Xian is just waiting for those buffs, and I can't wait to see him use that character again.
If they could correct a few problem areas in terms of fireballs and normals, that'd be great. I'm happy that the game doesn't treat fireballs like other games fully. TLD made a comparison to SF2, which is kinda correct insofar that jump-ins are good (and have always been good), but per system every game needs a better way of dealing with them. Since SFV's problem is the defense area, better AAs would be fucking great.
As for Ken, I'm not sure. It's pretty fast and I don't see Momo getting punished for throwing it out like Ryu does, so I don't know if that needs to be altered. Ryu needs that work.
And I take what I said about Akuma back. I'd have to see more from him to gauge how the stun thing plays into people's gameplan, but it'd be kinda broken if he could get a quarter of stun off of a few fireballs and go in for a combo. I've seen Tokido do that a few times and it's already pretty great, just takes conditioning and good spacing.
Did not know that about FANG. Xian is just waiting for those buffs, and I can't wait to see him use that character again.
If they could correct a few problem areas in terms of fireballs and normals, that'd be great. I'm happy that the game doesn't treat fireballs like other games fully. TLD made a comparison to SF2, which is kinda correct insofar that jump-ins are good (and have always been good), but per system every game needs a better way of dealing with them. Since SFV's problem is the defense area, better AAs would be fucking great.
Artwork of Cody's brother, Kyle just got posted on the CFN. He's blonde (bc of course he is). I kinda think he looks like the 3rd person in the season pass image.
http://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131447
So he's finally canon.
The Lone Dragon
Member
SF2 didn't have white life. In SF5, you can maintain white life build-up even at full screen if you have a fireball.
And, if a fireball clips someone who has white life built up, then that fireball might do MORE damage than in previous games.
People always ignore white life when discussing the meta of this game. They shouldn't. It's real. Next time you watch a match, pay attention to how frequently someone gets hit with lingering white life. It adds up.
Especially with a character like Ryu, who can build up white life very easily with his bnb block strings. Then there's his new cancellable b+hk, which makes building up white life even easier.
I'm not saying Ryu is top tier, maybe he is low. But, you can't compare "fireballs" from game to game without taking EVERYTHING into account.
BTW, many of the best characters in the game are characters with strong projectile based game plans. Guile, Urien, Rashid, even Laura....
So, it's always a little odd when people claim 'fireballs suck' in SF5.
Zombegoast
Member
I forgot all about Karin. She was suppose to me my second character but never got the chance to developer her. She needs buffs, especially her CA juggle in the corner.
Guile is Overhyped
you used karin tooKarin is still decent, but her 900 health are kind of a joke when other characters have more than 1000, do more than 300 damage without meter and have huge comback potential. She doesn't even hit very hard.
I might be salty because I lost about 2,000 LP in the last two days lol
ColonialHawk
Member
IDK I think Karin's great buttons make up for her other faults.
Zombegoast
Member
Chun still has her pokes and LK AA
TheSpoiler
Member
Maybe if Ryu had better normals to get that damage off the grey life it wouldn't be such a problem. The main issue is, if Ryu's fireballs are suppose to be about building grey damage, can he get that grey damage off?
Additional hitstun wouldn't hurt either way, to be honest. Even with better normals positioning as Ryu needs to be a bit easier.
Yeah, but unlike many other characters she doesn't really get too much off of them and they nerfed st.lk and st.mk pretty severely.
And honestly, a character with such bad anti-airs in a game where jumping is really good can only be helped so much by good buttons.
Yeah, that's probably true.
Chun's lk AA is way worse now.
You're right, SF5 is perfect.
stn
Member
Fireballs are just different in SF5. What made them good in ST? Well, block stun, push back, damage, chip damage, and the fact that neutral jumping was very tight on timing. Then, you had other things like trip guard which led to some really nasty patterns. Also, AA's were invincible, had high damage, and it was much easier to space yourself so that you could AA immediately after throwing the fireball.
How does SF5 compare? Well, Guile is really the only zoner that plays SF2. He's got the recovery to be able to AA right after a jump. But that's where it ends. Ryu does not throw fireballs in the same way, he uses them more as an offensive poke right outside poke range. Akuma does this, too. Laura uses her fireball for setups, not keep-away. Urien can throw plasma but in reality he's normals first before projectiles.
The first thing I ask myself to see if a fireballer is good is "how easy does this character zone grapplers out?" If you can't zone grapplers then your fireball game is not your strength (see: Akuma, who gets mauled by Zangief).
I do think they're better than SF4's plasma, however. That game allowed you to absorb a fireball and move forward without jumping. In addition to everything else. Sure, you could face heavy punishment at close-range; however, you could still cover a lot of ground.
Here's how I'd rate fireball strength strictly as a keep-away/lame turtle tool, not an offensive tool:
SF5: 6.5/10 - Guile keeps this higher than average because he is NUTS.
SF4: 5.5/10 - Guile and Gouken were mid-tier for the whole game with their great fireballs.
SF2: 10/10 - No explanation needed. They're OP.
How does SF5 compare? Well, Guile is really the only zoner that plays SF2. He's got the recovery to be able to AA right after a jump. But that's where it ends. Ryu does not throw fireballs in the same way, he uses them more as an offensive poke right outside poke range. Akuma does this, too. Laura uses her fireball for setups, not keep-away. Urien can throw plasma but in reality he's normals first before projectiles.
The first thing I ask myself to see if a fireballer is good is "how easy does this character zone grapplers out?" If you can't zone grapplers then your fireball game is not your strength (see: Akuma, who gets mauled by Zangief).
I do think they're better than SF4's plasma, however. That game allowed you to absorb a fireball and move forward without jumping. In addition to everything else. Sure, you could face heavy punishment at close-range; however, you could still cover a lot of ground.
Here's how I'd rate fireball strength strictly as a keep-away/lame turtle tool, not an offensive tool:
SF5: 6.5/10 - Guile keeps this higher than average because he is NUTS.
SF4: 5.5/10 - Guile and Gouken were mid-tier for the whole game with their great fireballs.
SF2: 10/10 - No explanation needed. They're OP.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
No SF game is perfect, but which one is most flawed depends on your personal likes and dislikes as a player.
I like III and V most cuz I enjoy their pacing and system mechanics a lot, and IV least due to its incredibly slow speed most of the time and the over-importance of Focus Attacks/FADCs as a mechanic. Not everyone's gonna feel that way, but that doesn't make either of our opinions any less valid.
I like III and V most cuz I enjoy their pacing and system mechanics a lot, and IV least due to its incredibly slow speed most of the time and the over-importance of Focus Attacks/FADCs as a mechanic. Not everyone's gonna feel that way, but that doesn't make either of our opinions any less valid.
Zombegoast
Member
almost nobody can zone gief with fireballs now, cause Lariat hitbox is huge, and gief can build meter with headbutt from distances where the Lariat cannot hit. only Dhalsim and Guile can get away with it consistently, everyone else can do it a couple of times and then has to mix it up
akuma gets it worse cause Lariat also shutdowns air fireballs tho. and demon flip
Yeah that's not true. Go into training mode and try to reliably anti-air different jump-ins with it. It doesn't work anymore. Not like in season 1.
I love SF5. Game is fun, but it's flawed, especially after S2. I think a lot of people put up with shit in S1 because it was S1, and we thought we'd get huge changes. We didn't, and now people aren't as understanding because we have to live with this for at least another year.
Lone Dragon acts like it's his mother and has to defend it whenever anybody says something negative.
TheSpoiler
Member
No fighting game is perfect, yet there's this weird expectation for every developer to balance and inject fun into it on equal levels while satisfying everyone. But that's impossible. People can't even be consistent on whether they want only buffs, some nerfs, lots of nerfs, who to nerf, who to buff besides the bottom four, and so on. No one is going to agree on what makes a fighting game fun or balanced. Even the latter is hotly debated, because what's balanced to a hardcore player isn't the same for a casual player, and so on.
NeoGAF isn't bad about this to be honest, but other places sure as shit are.
What huge changes were people asking for? I can barely place if people want only buffs or buffs and nerfs. I can't even tell if people want the patch or not. More v-stuff and CAs? I can kinda see that, but what else? At this point, the cast is more usable than S2 in my opinion, so already that's a huge change to me.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
It's a little weak to label all of his posts as just this, his previous posts actually had some good discussion material in it, it wasn't even a post of praise or anything.
the ryu fix is simple: give him non stubby normals. just extend the hitbox a little across the board, just so it doesn't look out of place with the animations and he is a powerhouse
invincible meterless dp should be gone for good, tho. ryu coasted on that cheap shit for far too long
invincible meterless dp should be gone for good, tho. ryu coasted on that cheap shit for far too long
Perhaps, but I find it pointless to have a discussion with him about this game since it comes back to him never finding fault. /shrug
Yeah, I think Ryu would be fixed with a few more pixels of range on his cr.mk.
- Status