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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost

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K

Karsticles

Member
You know, when Blizzard wants to make changes to Overwatch, they have a public test server where people can go, sample the changes, and give feedback. Capcom doesn't do anything like that, and they should.

Hell, even a small company like ASW does it for every BlazBlue and Guilty Gear change. They listen to their playerbase about what they are doing instead of making arbitrary changes that shock, confuse, and anger huge portions of the playerbase.

Skilletor said:
I love SF5. Game is fun, but it's flawed, especially after S2. I think a lot of people put up with shit in S1 because it was S1, and we thought we'd get huge changes. We didn't, and now people aren't as understanding because we have to live with this for at least another year.

Lone Dragon acts like it's his mother and has to defend it whenever anybody says something negative.
Click to expand...
What changes do you want to see?
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Karsticles said:
You know, when Blizzard wants to make changes to Overwatch, they have a public test server where people can go, sample the changes, and give feedback. Capcom doesn't do anything like that, and they should.

Hell, even a small company like ASW does it for every BlazBlue and Guilty Gear change. They listen to their playerbase about what they are doing instead of making arbitrary changes that shock, confuse, and anger huge portions of the playerbase.


What changes do you want to see?
Click to expand...

It's a little more difficult for Capcom, though. They shit on themselves by doing the CPT stuff, meaning changes can only come once the season is over (well, supposedly). So they have to wait an entire year of collecting data and then make a decision. I guess there's a benefit of letting the meta breath and blocking kneejerk responses (like, imagine if they nerfed Nash a few months in like they did with Sent. in Marvel), but at the very least, a beta before the season would have been a good idea.

But that's only so far as to ensure things and not so much change a bunch of shit. They probably could have caught the four lower tier characters being garbage and changed that sooner, but with all the responses to what the game "should" be, community feedback isn't always best.

And it's not like GG or BB devs follow feedback to the letter. Already people are whining about the nerfs in the former, but as you say, it does soften the blow so people can get ready. It also helps that those games are primarily able to be updated at anytime, so there's less cause for concern.

So a beta per year would be great, so long as they aren't caving into people too far, which they have unfortunately done so historically speaking. Nor are they the only company to do so, but their current system isn't going to allow changes unless something is completely busted.

At some level, and they need to realize this, you can't please everyone. Minimizing the worst parts of the feedback is the aim of most devs, and even then things aren't always corrected. In Overwatch, Sym is still busted. The corner crossing in KOF is still there. The changes to Raven make him more reliant on his boner mode, which some players don't like. It happens. Personally, I want every single v-skill to be more useful, and more v-trigger things for every character, and I hope they can reach that (alongside a few more problems I've mentioned here already), but at some level developers gotta turn off the complaints value and do work.

Edit: That isn't to say people shouldn't level their grievances or have weird expectations. Even I thought the game was gonna have more in terms of v-stuff, and it didn't. My hope, and I guess the hope of us all, is to get through the most important changes and have them reach Capcom (and all developers). But at some level, I either stick with a game, or drop it because it's not my thing. I just wanna enjoy the fighting part, and if I don't, I move on. Which is why I'll buy Injustice 2 and probably never play it expect to mash around because I don't like NRS combat system lol
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Karsticles said:
You know, when Blizzard wants to make changes to Overwatch, they have a public test server where people can go, sample the changes, and give feedback. Capcom doesn't do anything like that, and they should.

Hell, even a small company like ASW does it for every BlazBlue and Guilty Gear change. They listen to their playerbase about what they are doing instead of making arbitrary changes that shock, confuse, and anger huge portions of the playerbase.
Click to expand...
I thought this only happened with Japanese and the loketests. Skullgirls was the best example of a fighter in the west doing that. Mike let the first speed increase in "Slightly Different Edition" be determined by a straight up vote on Skullheart forums. Having a permanent beta would be a good thing for SFV even if it is PC exclusive. Too bad people rarely care about this sort of innovation unless a big company does it. Makes it really hard for fighting games to evolve.
TheSpoiler said:
They can keep the DP nerf since a ton of characters are benefiting from it. Just buff AAs across the board and buff v-reversals and the four lowest tier characters and we got some soup.
Click to expand...
Don't forget white life. V-reversals don't even need new buffs either. They can just start by undoing pretty much all nerfs to v-reversals they applied for season 2. I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish with those nerfs in particular.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
mnz said:
Yeah that's not true. Go into training mode and try to reliably anti-air different jump-ins with it. It doesn't work anymore. Not like in season 1.
Click to expand...

According to? They increase Nash's hurtbox and reduce the hitbox on his Jump in Normals. You may think that it was nerfed but now the majority of the roster expect for Rashid and Vega can Light AA punish Nash.

Even certain Cr.MP like the Shotos and M.Bison can hit Nash out of the air.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
I forgot Skullgirls used their forums to dictate a lot of stuff. Was the choice completely reliant on the forum votes though? While I'd like to believe in the community of the bigger games, I absolutely don't. The bigger the pool, the bigger room for error, and people can barely decide on what they want out of SFV these days, let alone other games like Tekken (a few people on the OT don't like the Rage Arts stuff, for example).

BUT, that being said, if people could discuss these changes in length and Capcom could at least gleam some ideas? That'd be fucking fantastic. SF4 had loketest, so at the very least, we may get some once the arcades drop.

SolarPowered said:
Don't forget white life. V-reversals don't even need new buffs either. They can just start by undoing pretty much all nerfs to v-reversals they applied for season 2. I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish with those nerfs in particular.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the v-reverals nerf. The white life though? The changes are kinda keeping some characters relevant. I didn't agree with it at first, but Bison, Rashid and a buncha other characters are far more playable because of that. Maybe the speed should be increased to compensate though.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
TheSpoiler said:
It's a little more difficult for Capcom, though. They shit on themselves by doing the CPT stuff, meaning changes can only come once the season is over (well, supposedly). So they have to wait an entire year of collecting data and then make a decision. I guess there's a benefit of letting the meta breath and blocking kneejerk responses (like, imagine if they nerfed Nash a few months in like they did with Sent. in Marvel), but at the very least, a beta before the season would have been a good idea.

But that's only so far as to ensure things and not so much change a bunch of shit. They probably could have caught the four lower tier characters being garbage and changed that sooner, but with all the responses to what the game "should" be, community feedback isn't always best.

And it's not like GG or BB devs follow feedback to the letter. Already people are whining about the nerfs in the former, but as you say, it does soften the blow so people can get ready. It also helps that those games are primarily able to be updated at anytime, so there's less cause for concern.

So a beta per year would be great, so long as they aren't caving into people too far, which they have unfortunately done so historically speaking. Nor are they the only company to do so, but their current system isn't going to allow changes unless something is completely busted.

At some level, and they need to realize this, you can't please everyone. Minimizing the worst parts of the feedback is the aim of most devs, and even then things aren't always corrected. In Overwatch, Sym is still busted. The corner crossing in KOF is still there. The changes to Raven make him more reliant on his boner mode, which some players don't like. It happens. Personally, I want every single v-skill to be more useful, and more v-trigger things for every character, and I hope they can reach that (alongside a few more problems I've mentioned here already), but at some level developers gotta turn off the complaints value and do work.

Edit: That isn't to say people shouldn't level their grievances or have weird expectations. Even I thought the game was gonna have more in terms of v-stuff, and it didn't. My hope, and I guess the hope of us all, is to get through the most important changes and have them reach Capcom (and all developers). But at some level, I either stick with a game, or drop it because it's not my thing. I just wanna enjoy the fighting part, and if I don't, I move on. Which is why I'll buy Injustice 2 and probably never play it expect to mash around because I don't like NRS combat system lol
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the devs should listen to everything the fanbase says, but, for example, if dragon punches are going to lose their invincibility, Capcom might want to talk about it with the playerbase first...

SolarPowered said:
I thought this only happened with Japanese and the loketests. Skullgirls was the best example of a fighter in the west doing that. Mike let the first speed increase in "Slightly Different Edition" be determined by a straight up vote on Skullheart forums. Having a permanent beta would be a good thing for SFV even if it is PC exclusive. Too bad people rarely care about this sort of innovation unless a big company does it. Makes it really hard for fighting games to evolve.

Don't forget white life. V-reversals don't even need new buffs either. They can just start by undoing pretty much all nerfs to v-reversals they applied for season 2. I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish with those nerfs in particular.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was referring to the loketests.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Karsticles said:
I'm not saying the devs should listen to everything the fanbase says, but, for example, if dragon punches are going to lose their invincibility, Capcom might want to talk about it with the playerbase first...



Yeah, I was referring to the loketests.
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying that you were (although by my Twitter timeline, others would expect that), but you are definitely right. Give people a chance to process that shit.
 
H

Hyun Sai

Member
SolarPowered said:
Don't forget white life. V-reversals don't even need new buffs either. They can just start by undoing pretty much all nerfs to v-reversals they applied for season 2. I have no clue what they were trying to accomplish with those nerfs in particular.
Click to expand...

Many things don't make a damn sense. I can't even understand the reason for some nerfs. Why nerf Vega's V-Skill, already borderline useless ? Why nerf Vega's slide, already heavy punishable ? Why add 2 frame handicap comboing from Cr MP (clawless) ? Who complained about this stuff ???

Do they pick those at random ? I'm starting to wonder.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
It's not just Blizzard...

God damn Team Ninja had like 5 different alphas/betas/demos for Nioh before shipping that game. And that's not even a competitive multiplayer game that you absolutely need godlike netcode for it to do well. They continuously took feedback from each of those test builds and they improved the game... guess what the final game is out and it's *gasp* GOOD.

Capcom is just behind the times that is all. You guys don't remember but I went HAM, CHEESE, CROISSANT on the SFV beta but people were like "nah man it's a beta, it's supposed to be bad". That was the first sign that Capcom was in over their head with SFV.
 
K

kobu

Member
Hyun Sai said:
Many things don't make a damn sense. I can't even understand the reason for some nerfs. Why nerf Vega's V-Skill, already borderline useless ? Why nerf Vega's slide, already heavy punishable ? Why add 2 frame handicap comboing from Cr MP (clawless) ? Who complained about this stuff ???

Do they pick those at random ? I'm starting to wonder.
Click to expand...

As a salty Vega player the only conclusion I've come to its that capcom has no idea what they're doing but I guess that is obvious.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Even if Ryu stayed as is but got his invincible DPs back, he'd probably remain largely the same and losing.

Vega EX Roll is wtf slow
 
G

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
Designers insist on 'this is what we wanted the character to play like' and don't seem to realize that sometimes their intention just doesn't hold up in practical application.
 
L

LincolnTunnel

Member
It seems like a lot of Season 2 issues resulted from system wide changes;

"Due to changes to the game, some general attacks have been adjusted for each character. Along with changes 1 and 2, and the other changes to the game, characters who were able to attack more often and had a long reach became significantly stronger. Due to this, regardless of the strength of the character, general attacks for all characters have been adjusted."
Click to expand...

This general policy seems to be the reason why many characters received seemingly unnecessary nerfs. Maybe, now that those changes are already in place, they'll get a better idea of where they went too far and be able to fix it.
 
L

lupinko

Member
Dahbomb said:
It's not just Blizzard...

God damn Team Ninja had like 5 different alphas/betas/demos for Nioh before shipping that game. And that's not even a competitive multiplayer game that you absolutely need godlike netcode for it to do well. They continuously took feedback from each of those test builds and they improved the game... guess what the final game is out and it's *gasp* GOOD.

Capcom is just behind the times that is all. You guys don't remember but I went HAM, CHEESE, CROISSANT on the SFV beta but people were like "nah man it's a beta, it's supposed to be bad". That was the first sign that Capcom was in over their head with SFV.
Click to expand...

But I saw a thread showing that the multiplayer for Nioh was bad on this same forum.
 
G

GuileBootCamp

Member
Durden77 said:
Still behind. Any point to Guile's s.HP now?
Click to expand...

Still his hit confirm for his BnBs, still a good meaty, still good after an air to air j.LK into crossunder, and combos after counterhit UDK now.

Also, you have 2 extra frames of time you're able to charge during his BnBs now, since s.HP has an 8f startup and is +7 on hit.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
cackhyena said:
Controversial opinion incoming. Akuma now looks like a dickhead if he ain't got dat mane.
Click to expand...
image.php


Gr1mLock said:
Designers insist on 'this is what we wanted the character to play like' and don't seem to realize that sometimes their intention just doesn't hold up in practical application.
Click to expand...

"At this time, we can confirm additional changes are in the works to bring characters in-line with how we envision them to perform. We can’t share all of the details quite yet, but we are anticipating an announcement early March."

Yup, expect Alex and F.A.N.G nerfs.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
I got touched by Laura once and lost playing a 900 health haracter. Her Charged Thunderclap xx F.hp does more damage with less complex motion than anything in the game with no meter. The damage scaling vs Health is just bad in this game. Why does Akuma have 875 health again?


At least with Ultra you had to FADC or land a certain combo. But in V, press one button, V-TRIGGER Cancel and win.


I will keep saying this but invincible backdash needs to comeback if people want a defensive option.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Saturday night, I didn't go out tonight, let's play SFV!
No matches, no 4-5 matches to be found, long waiting time between matches... I want to like this game just like I did when it first came out, but it won't let me.
Edit: Got mathed up against an Alex, connection was completely fine but he didn't grant the rematch after I won... Oh well... back to waiting for another match for 10 minutes.
Edit 2: LMAO got a 5 connection match, accepted it but it never connected... this fucking game man...
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
HardRojo said:
Saturday night, I didn't go out tonight, let's play SFV!
No matches, no 4-5 matches to be found, long waiting time between matches... I want to like this game just like I did when it first came out, but it won't let me.
Edit: Got mathed up against an Alex, connection was completely fine but he didn't grant the rematch after I won... Oh well... back to waiting for another match for 10 minutes.
Edit 2: LMAO got a 5 connection match, accepted it but it never connected... this fucking game man...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing your favourite single player DLC is the one for The Last of Us.
Left Behind


Also WOW, the r/StreetFighter subreddit has become savage.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I'm guessing your favourite single player DLC is the one for The Last of Us.
Left Behind


Also WOW, the r/StreetFighter subreddit has become savage.
Click to expand...

LMAO! Incidentally I'm a fan of that DLC :p Just played against a fellow Peruvian player, my frame trapping training against Necalli paid off, I was trying to figure out what buttons were safe for me, I know as Urien I can press cr.MP after a blocked st.MP and his jab won't beat me, will keep experimenting.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
The Lone Dragon said:
SF2 didn't have white life. In SF5, you can maintain white life build-up even at full screen if you have a fireball.
And, if a fireball clips someone who has white life built up, then that fireball might do MORE damage than in previous games.

People always ignore white life when discussing the meta of this game. They shouldn't. It's real. Next time you watch a match, pay attention to how frequently someone gets hit with lingering white life. It adds up.

Especially with a character like Ryu, who can build up white life very easily with his bnb block strings. Then there's his new cancellable b+hk, which makes building up white life even easier.

I'm not saying Ryu is top tier, maybe he is low. But, you can't compare "fireballs" from game to game without taking EVERYTHING into account.

BTW, many of the best characters in the game are characters with strong projectile based game plans. Guile, Urien, Rashid, even Laura....

So, it's always a little odd when people claim 'fireballs suck' in SF5.
Click to expand...

So you're saying fireballs are good for Ryu because of white life?


Anyways, a big problem I'm seeing is the active frames of normals in SFV. They have less active frames in SFV, and there is more startup.
 
F

Femto.

Member
Weekly complaint of the wait time being too damn long in between games.

The cherry on top:

"get ready for action" *accepts match* (connecting) match is dropped and the waiting continues.

May happen again a couple more times
 
O

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
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