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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
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when's yun
lucebuce12
Member
What it SHOULD be is that AAs (for certain characters) lead to so much damage that jumping at the wrong time fucks you up. The risk/reward ratio for jumping is so fucked as it stands. Getting AA 5 times in a row amounts to the same damage that you can do with just one jump-in, and that's not even counting the benefit it gives for vortex/mixup characters.
Zombegoast
Member
Yes, "Switch sides" and "Safe". Any character with long limps can punish it. Or walk back and press a button.
Like with everyone's favorite top tier character
Just give everyone marvel air combos on an anti air tbh tbh
lucebuce12
Member
I am actually fully in support of this.
They're going the right direction by giving Guile's cr.hp a CC property, Giving Birdie's AA cr.hp more opportunities for damage (you can do cr.hp AA xx heavy bullhead xx CA, GOD DAMN), Ryu and Vega's AA st.hk being a reliable CC and other examples, why not go a step further with that?
TheSpoiler
Member
I forgot - who do you play again? Bison has to work to get to you from full screen - SKs, unsafe dashing, and heastop - since his speed is so shit. Practice stuffing those moves and you'll frustrate a Bison quick. Corner play is important in most fighting games, and obviously in SFV, but Bisons hate being in the corner because he can't reliably leave it.
His HK is good but you can easily make him whiff it by staying out of range and backing up a bit. Let him use up his turns and work to come to you.
Oh yeah, his AA is fucking garbage unless you are clearly telegraphing your jump-ins so get some freebies on that boy.
Man if only we could look at your posts in S1 threads! Off the top of my head, I remember you complaining about a half a second delay for once and another time about the a bug that made you drop a Nash link! And I used to check SFV threads like once a week back then!
Also, Urien's Cr.MP is worse than it was in season 1!
Why would you reversal outside of your v-reversal reach?! There are wrong times to use v-reversals with every single character in the game, they're not get out of jail free cards!Yes, "Switch sides" and "Safe". Any character with long limps can punish it. Or walk back and press a button.
Like with everyone's favorite top tier character
lucebuce12
Member
This post from r/StreetFighter sums up the fundamental problem with SFV so well IMO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFigh..._continues_to_be_challenging_for_fgc/ddolpde/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFigh..._continues_to_be_challenging_for_fgc/ddolpde/
Pinksu said:
My Bison strategy by now:
- block, block, block
- punish stomps with jumpback normal
- punish inferno, dash-ins and slides
- punish mistimed/misplaced scissor kicks (LK is -4 and MK is -3)
- interrupt after st.hp and the target combo which ends in d.hp (-6 and -8)
- (Karin specific: I try to command dash against EX stomps/devils reverse to get the hell out of there)
- pressure him on his wake-up, in the corner and from time to time by jumping
There's a lot of truth in there, but to change what he mentions you would basically have to create a completely different game. That would have to be a change unlike anything we've ever seen in a fighting game and I can't imagine that will ever happen.
lucebuce12
Member
Tbh, the only reason I'm even coming back for Kolin is because I've bought the season pass.
If I hadn't then I really don't know if I would've
(I probably would've. I want this game to be good)
Yes, "Switch sides" and "Safe". Any character with long limps can punish it. Or walk back and press a button.
Like with everyone's favorite top tier character
That was the worst vreversal ever. Far away, at the very end of the animation of his fierce...lol.
I'm playing Urien now, I know my character is really good so I'm not complaining about Urien because I know he has options, thing is I feel completely defenseless when I go against Bison, it's like my brain enters a state in which it refrains from pressing buttons and lets Bison keep the pressure for free, I'm gonna have to get in the lab.
Zombegoast
Member
Urien can still punish it even when it's done fast. And you don't think people will react trying to get out of Urien's shenanigans?
Omnistalgic
Member
Holy moth balls that's how I feel...
Very well put, I hope I can get back into one day, but yeah S2 killed my motivation. On the bright side PS4's game lineup is kinda crazy! I'm having so much fun getting back into SP games. TLG, GR2, Nioh, Nier, Horizon, RE7, FF15, Persona 5, they just won't stop!
lucebuce12
Member
Can't believe you didn't mention Yakuza 0.
I finally hit silver league this weekend!
Now I'm just going to stick to casual matches so I can learn as much as possible before continuing the ranked grind. I'm afraid to lose access to all the upper level silver players by losing the rank.
I actually feel like I'm improving at the game now though, which is super nice.
Does anyone know the best way to learn mixups? I play Gief, and I only know a few for some scenarios. I feel like that's the next step in moving forward with him.
WOWWWW
Now I'm just going to stick to casual matches so I can learn as much as possible before continuing the ranked grind. I'm afraid to lose access to all the upper level silver players by losing the rank.
I actually feel like I'm improving at the game now though, which is super nice.
Does anyone know the best way to learn mixups? I play Gief, and I only know a few for some scenarios. I feel like that's the next step in moving forward with him.
WOWWWW
The time is meaningless since he's out of reach, that's like whiffing a throw and complaining they suck. You know it has ass reach, why would you use it against an out of reach poke?!
It still switches sides, and safe on block now, it's not gonna be perfect in every way.
Set the dummy to wake-up with a 3 frame normal, use different recoveries and make sure your offense beats it. That's one of the best ways to learn pressure.
As a Cammy player, I would never vreversal Urien's s.hp from the tip of the attack after the animation has ended.
You might have a point, but you chose a gif showing a very stupid decision trying to prove it.
Omnistalgic
Member
lol that's actually gonna be my first Yakuza game. Gonna see what all the hype is about lol.
But yeah to get back on topic, I just think the answer is leave in the "broken" characters. Some stuff was way too cheap like Chun's instant air legs, but her crazy far reaching normals? Leave them in. Nash should have been virtually untouched same as Ryu. Ken only needed his air Tatsu hurtbox adjusted, Mika, just a clap nerf. These characters weren't brain-dead good or super hard to beat. Good example, playing Flux early on, if I got trapped in the corner with his Mika I was dead. But after hundreds of matches we both started to play against each other's tendacies and the "derp" of our characters faded into the background. When character are strong, you give players the agency to have different playstyles, and not be one dimensional as the post illustrates. Long story short, "don't tell me how to play my Ken Capcom!" lol...
I'm optimtic though. I think SF4 Super gives me hope, that was a great iteration of the game. Proof Capcom can get it right
lucebuce12
Member
Make sure to head on over to the Yakuza 0 OT once you start playing. We're always happy to help.
I have the highest number of posts there too, guess I post a lot in OTs of games I care about.
This isn't a good example. A better one would be the couple of times Smug was able to walk out of it when fighting Kbrad at ESL a few times. Medium punch, walk back, punish.
TheSpoiler
Member
Oh! Well then, biggest tip is to make sure you get your shit started before Bison does. It's a 5-5 matchup, I think? And Bison has some natural counters to Urien, because Urien can't deal with being bullied much himself. Usually moving him to the corner as fast as possible is the best bet, and I'd be very liberal of your v-skill usage outside his range to get AR going more.
Personally, I enjoy this season more, because I like more aggressive play, and I like seeing more characters getting airtime. But I think the enjoyment comes from your character and what got changed. But hey, that's the norm in fighting games. One of my friends is dropping GG because he doesn't like the Raven changes, but I think he should adapt since he still enjoys the game.
And lol at some of that Reddit post. There are a bunch of super technical, methodical players that work well in SFV. Tokido is a prime example. Dimenion's Guile isn't that good compared to Du's. Both players are having trouble adapting to being forced to go on the offensive more often than not, whereas SF4's defensive play allowed people to play safer. Neither SF4 or SFV is wrong for going in that direction, but not every playstyle will be catered to, and thus like in every fighting game, you gotta adapt or play something else. I don't begrudge people for bringing up what they feel is wrong with SFV, but sometimes I feel like the points are situational.
Season 2 isn't better or worse for me, it's just different. Which is kind of a problem, because that was their big second take on it and they didn't really improve the game.
That's a big part of the game for sure. But you usually don't have more than 3 or 4 knockdown timings. I don't know Zangief at all, though.
Zombegoast
Member
I choose that because it is one of the most hardest punishes on Cammy's V-reversal. Be honest what other character could be V-reversal punish on activation besides throws? Juri was the only character and Capcom fixed her's.
^
It just means you need to learn when and what you can reversal.
Sure, you could be right, but the gif you chose was a stupid decision and would only happen if a person makes a really, really stupid choice.
ColonialHawk
Member
If we all do end up dropping V, please lets not go back to SFIV.
V-Reversal nerf was also kind of idiotic to me, because now outside of like five characters it's ass and it costs so much to use. I haven't even played much Season 2, but since I played as Cammy it wouldn't be much different. I actually was beginning to learn Vega but now I don't even think it's worth it and he doesn't exactly help me on the rare 4-6 match for Cammy, hell if she even has an 4-6s lol
lucebuce12
Member
Inj 2, Tekken 7 or KoF XIV seem like the only replacements we have (that aren't anime). And MvC: I when it drops.
the risk ratio for jump-ins/AAs should be p skewed in favor of jump-ins if the AAs are good
AAs in S2 are decent. You can be jumped in if you are caught doing something else, but for most peeps, if they see the jump, they can stop it
I don't think the situation is that bad. maybe increase the damage a little in some AA specials for some people, but I feel that, for far too long, SF jumping has been way too bad
SPD has 5f of startup. And eveyone is grab invincible for 2f on wakeup, which means you have 1 frame of precision to land a SPD on a 3f jab, 2f on a 4f jab. You can practice grabbing people on wakeup, and I do recommend it, but honestly you are concentrating on the wrong part.
What you need to concentrate on is distance. Zangief's light SPD and EX SPD outrange most normals, and even the medium SPD has a respectable range. And as Zangief doesn't have an overhead, most people will always block low, which means they are crouching, which means their hurtbox is bigger.
So what you want to do is establish early you are willing to go for meaty setups, and then whiff those, walk out of their wakeup jab range and just grab them from outside where they can hit you
I'd be careful with L2 and R2 triggers for DS4.
Mashed Birdie roundhouse so hard that the shit came off and the latch inside broke lol
I switched to the Hori pad, but I probably haven't used it enough to break it.
I used to play on stick, but got lazy and switched to pad because I didn't wanna lug shit areound anymore... played on stick for KOF XIV for the first time in a long time at a local yesterday and I managed to bruise my fingers while mashing for like 5-7 hours straight :v
I think he makes good points but is over compensating his failure to enjoy the game with SFV's retail failure. If he doesn't enjoy the product, that's fine, as he's not obligated or forced to. However, saying stuff like others "supporting this madness" is highly subjective and screams of bitterness when thier opinion is just as valid as his.
We have to remember, every fighter has it's good and bad points with many differing (and at times very biased) views from both sides of the pitch and it won't stop now. It's just with a fighting game of SFV's brand and reputation the vocal minority seem like they are the majority as they have a much louder voice - which of course they should, and not be forgotten about.
Yeah, that's one I don't really get. Were people complaining about them?
The only explanation I can come up with is that they really wanted the white life change and that indirectly made V-Reversals stronger.
sixteen-bit
Member
If USF2 delivers, lets go there
lucebuce12
Member
Then I'd have to buy a console with no games.
sixteen-bit
Member
Oh yeah.
And need to buy new sticks
Same. I hope PC has a healthy community cuz it's not gonna be crossplay like SFV
ColonialHawk
Member
Im hoping to like Tekken 7, but I dont like the way KoF and Injustice play/feel. If that makes sense.
It already has my true main Violent Ken so im day 1.
TheSpoiler
Member
Tekken 7 was smart. Make people endure a two year long wait while they fix up the game and release an expansion. Though I still hear people call it dumbed down compared to other games in the series and it'll get shit for being a jugglefest but hey fuck you fighting games are fun.
Oh yeah.
And need to buy new sticks
Same. I hope PC has a healthy community cuz it's not gonna be crossplay like SFV
I'm PC too, Akuma looks hype, but I'm gonna stick with Paul or Bryan probably
Tekken?
a jugglefest?
why I never
I think that at least FANG's nerf may have come up for fear of the interaction of poison + white life. so it wouldn't be too weird to think that V-Reversals being nerfed was due to this too
they probably overreacted tho. S1 FANG with the new white health is prolly not a monster. S1 V-reversals still weren't _that_ good to make the grey health change and the reversal nerf that good
a jugglefest?
why I never
I think that at least FANG's nerf may have come up for fear of the interaction of poison + white life. so it wouldn't be too weird to think that V-Reversals being nerfed was due to this too
they probably overreacted tho. S1 FANG with the new white health is prolly not a monster. S1 V-reversals still weren't _that_ good to make the grey health change and the reversal nerf that good
I see. I've done a lot of practice to get the meaty SPD timings down, so I'm pretty reliable getting throw loops, although doing it frame perfect to beat the jab is a bit tough sometimes. So what you're saying is to practice more of a shimmy to convince players that I'm going to meaty, but instead just back up and let them wiff so I can punish with an spd?
That's a really good idea and avoids having to be frame perfect all the time. Thank you!
TheSpoiler
Member
Might as well get this shit started.
Tekken is a jugglefest
Injustice 2 meta is busted due to overpatching
Marvel is a 1 player game once you get hit
Ultra Street Fighter 2 should just be Super Turbo
GG is (air) dash and mash
BB is for weebs
Virtua Fighter is for empty chairs
Gundam "neutral" is just beamspam
SFV is dash and mash/Sleep Fighter V/Unga Bunga V
KOF is hop and mash.
Et al.
The Lone Dragon
Member
ICYMI: Red Bul Kumite's first 4 participants
https://twitter.com/redbullesports/status/831154055217033217
http://www.redbull.com/en/esports/stories/1331844628242/red-bull-kumite-2017-esports-info
RB
PrBalrog
Tokido
Xiao Hai
https://twitter.com/redbullesports/status/831154055217033217
http://www.redbull.com/en/esports/stories/1331844628242/red-bull-kumite-2017-esports-info
RB
PrBalrog
Tokido
Xiao Hai
I was going to mention that you forgot Smash but then I already know what's going to be said about it.
TheSpoiler
Member
I keep forgetting it's in Paris.
Guess I'll go to CEO instead.
Nah I didn't forget. I was only mentioning fighting games.
Just kidding Smash is great, I love all fighting games, people are too hard on them and should play them all tbh
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