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[Sayad]

Urien is like one of few fun characters in the game:
- can whiff punish
- his normals doesn't whiff from ranges you expect them to hit(generally good normals sums up the first two points I guess)
- can use specials in neutral effectivly
- while being very simple to play he has decent depth if you're willing to put in extra work
- fun and satisfying combos
- Unique V-Trigger that define the character

Capcom should look at him while trying to fix SFV, not make him inline with SFV's regular bore in the next patch.

 

[lucebuce12]

Remember when Street Fighter 5 was supposed to get a Linux/SteamOS port?

 

[Kashiwaba]

Urien is like one of few fun characters in the game:
- can whiff punish
- his normals doesn't whiff from ranges you expect them to hit(generally good normals sums up the first two points I guess)
- can use specials in neutral effectivly
- while being very simple to play he has decent depth if you're willing to put in extra work
- fun and satisfying combos
- Unique V-Trigger that define the character

Capcom should look at him while trying to fix SFV, not make him inline with SFV's regular bore in the next patch.

Guile, Rashid and Urien are some of the really well balanced characters on SFV capcom should use them as their benchmark.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Remember when Street Fighter 5 was supposed to get a Linux/SteamOS port?

Hey, it's coming soon, no need to get impatient!

Spoiler

It's crazy that we are mere days away from the one year anniversary, and the game is still in such a rough state.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I think a bunch of the cast is fun, or at least has the potential to be fun. I love Bison, because I'm constantly vying for the best positioning and being rewarded for it. Urien is fun for a different reason, obviously due to his normals and AR goofy things he can do. Guile is incredibly straightforward with his design allowing people to get to the core of the fun much quicker than other characters. Rashid is a lot more fun "now" because he can do damage and still pull off ridiculous things even without v-trigger.

On the flipside, some characters don't feel as fun. Like Balrog, which is the reason I quit playing him. He feels like he's a little too simplistic, and can bully people easier than most other characters. Like the game caters to him too well, if that makes sense. Ryu lost what was fun by making his tools harder to use - so all that positioning Daigo does and such doesn't get rewarded like it did. I guess that goes hand in hand with nerfing characters, although FANG players love the challenge (all three of them).

I don't think it's primarily about normals being stubby (well, part of it) or such, but whether or not a character works well within the confines of the game's system. Obviously this isn't for every single character, as Akuma is fun because of all the variations to his combos on whether you want stun or damage, but if you have to struggle more and get less rewards out of it, it's probably not as a enjoyable. Ken players can make him work, and he's arguably still strong, but the pay off isn't as good. Balrog is too strong, and therefore it doesn't feel that much fun playing him.

However, I think some characters just transition to different things as balance happens, but they should still consider how a character works in the game to better improve the immediacy of fun or avoid souring it.

Edit: Looking back at other games, that's probably a commonplace problem. Gundam was only fun with certain characters to me because someone them would either do shit well, or do the same shit but for worse. Why even fuck with Kapool? Seriously poor Kapool though.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Who's decision was it to make Urien's Cr.MP + on block? It can already V-Trigger cancel and is the longest reaching poke in the game. Then there is his Ex headbutt which has 17f of recovery making it hard to CC with slow characters.

Uriens cr.mp is 0 on block, not plus. It's also not even close to the longest reaching poke in the game. Hell it's not even HIS longest poke.

EX Headbutt has 19 frames of recovery.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Uriens cr.mp is 0 on block, not plus. It's also not even close to the longest reaching poke in the game. Hell it's not even HIS longest poke.

EX Headbutt has 19 frames of recovery.

According to Capcom themselves:

Crouching MK
①Advantage on hit has been changed +1F⇒+4F
②Advantage on guard has been changed -2F⇒+2F

http://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/adjust2017/en/23.html

 

[lucebuce12]

According to Capcom themselves:


http://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/adjust2017/en/23.html

Crouching Medium PUNCH bruh, not Crouching Medium KICK.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Crouching Medium PUNCH bruh, not Crouching Medium KICK.

I'm making the assumption that Zombegoast meant crMK, since the frame advantage of Urien's crMP was not changed, and since they are not the first to voice this complaint about his crMK. I could be wrong, though.

 

[lucebuce12]

I'm making the assumption that Zombegoast meant crMK, since the frame advantage of Urien's crMP was not changed, and since they are not the first to voice this complaint about his crMK. I could be wrong, though.

You make a fair point, but you're making the same mistake a lot of people in this thread seem to keep making.

Using logic and facts to counter ZB's shitposting.

 

[TheSpoiler]

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

You make a fair point, but you're making the same mistake a lot of people in this thread seem to keep making.

Using logic and facts to counter ZB's shitposting.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt once in a while.

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

Yes you can.

 

[lucebuce12]

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

I believe you can. That's part of why people just can't seem to fathom why that button is + on block now.

 

[Grakl]

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

u can tho

 

[Spuck-uk]

Tekken 7 was smart. Make people endure a two year long wait while they fix up the game and release an expansion. Though I still hear people call it dumbed down compared to other games in the series and it'll get shit for being a jugglefest but hey fuck you fighting games are fun.

It's practically the same systems as Tekken has always had. Hell it has more mechanics than any non-tag entry.

The people saying this are bads.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

uh

 

[Spuck-uk]

I like SFV way more than SF4.

People are already forgetting how badly Capcom messed up with SF4 AE. The twins and Fei Long with their purposely designed over powered characters to make villains that people can root against.

This was one of the "hypest" moments of AE... WOW look at all that NEUTRAL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLORt8DUHjE

Twins weren't even as bad as Cammy, by the end of AE her tech was just disgusting, unblockables out of a throw that make DPs whiff..

 

[TheSpoiler]

I actually forgot that you could do that.

Urien pls

 

[mnz]

I actually forgot that you could do that.

Urien pls

And it's really really good, too. When he has V-Trigger you need to stay further away, giving him the upper hand in footsies and even just walking back can get you killed.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I actually forgot that you could do that.

Urien pls

Reasons to pick Vega over Urien:
-Walkspeed

Reasons to puck Urien over Vega
-Literally better at everything else.

Even Flash, one of the few Vega stalwarts, has traded him in for Thongboy now.

 

[mnz]

I was watching James Chen's stream for a bit yesterday and it's actually pretty good for beginners, because he's not that good at it but keeps analyzing every detail going on pretty well. Fighting one random Urien was the only thing that broke him and basically left him speechless lol

 

[AgentOtaku]

I was watching James Chen's stream for a bit yesterday and it's actually pretty good for beginners, because he's not that good at it but keeps analyzing every detail going on pretty well. Fighting one random Urien was the only thing that broke him and basically left him speechless lol

Cool!

Is this archived somewhere?

 

[mnz]

Cool!

Is this archived somewhere?

Yep, on his channel: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121445977

Spoiler

Ups, wrong video, I'm so sorry

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Cool!

Is this archived somewhere?

Here's the video starting at the Urien match:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121929262?t=2h36m40s

 

[myco666]

Twins weren't even as bad as Cammy, by the end of AE her tech was just disgusting, unblockables out of a throw that make DPs whiff..

The what now? That sounds so dumb.

 

[mnz]

Here's the video starting at the Urien match:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121929262?t=2h36m40s

I think the salt starts earlier. Then he takes it into training mode and then this match happened. I had a lot of fun watching.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I think the salt starts earlier. Then he takes it into training mode and then this match happened. I had a lot of fun watching.

There are two different matches in a row, with increasing salt levels, culminating in this perfect scene:

 

[mbpm1]

I was watching James Chen's stream for a bit yesterday and it's actually pretty good for beginners, because he's not that good at it but keeps analyzing every detail going on pretty well. Fighting one random Urien was the only thing that broke him and basically left him speechless lol

I would love to go random on James Chen.

He looks like a guy I would like to tilt.

 

[nded]

Remember when Street Fighter 5 was supposed to get a Linux/SteamOS port?

I was thinking it was supposed to be a byproduct of the arcade version, but they've probably given up and will just go with windows cabs.

 

[Village]

So cool

You now got me following this man

 

[sixteen-bit]

Remember when Street Fighter 5 was supposed to get a Linux/SteamOS port?

Capcom doesn't

 

[mnz]

Capcom doesn't

You didn't read the link, did you

edit: I just noticed that wbacon posted that one, he's on GAF.

 

[HardRojo]

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

Sit down and hold tight. You can V-trigger off of it.

 

[SolarPowered]

More player input would be great all around. But I'm already noticing a pretty key issue with Street Fighter/bigger fighting games and changes - the bigger the pool, the more opinions on how things should work, and the murkier the waters.

I don't mean to throw shade at people, but some want the DP change back. Alright, so what happens to the characters that benefit from that? How are you going to make them viable, since the DP change is giving a bunch of characters life? You'll get a hundred different opinions depending on who plays what and what skill ranking they are in.

And the time period of when you ask matters too. James Chen tweeted out about mashing lights on wakeup, but he had no idea the player wasn't simply mashing it for no reason, it was because the character matchup called for that. It wasn't until he did research that he saw the reasoning behind it.

David was talking about Ryu like the character wasn't a problem even towards the end of S1's life. But Ryu was doing big boy damage without much meter and everyone from pros to casuals dreaded getting hit by the truck that is that shoto. I'm not saying the nerfs are completely fair - that motherfucker needs some reach and a better fireball to compensate - but people are real quick to forget things in terms of how games were even a few months after changes hit.

This isn't exclusive to fighting games. It's probably more prevalent with SFV because there are less changes than with SF4, There are things a beta could catch, like how many, many players did not like the input lag and still don't, and I think them gleaming more input would have maybe dealt with that far sooner than not. But at some level, the game just needs to be made and people just need to adapt. This isn't really what you were implying, but I'm more so just hoping Capcom doesn't completely flood their game with community input, because the majority of it isn't good and rarely ever agreed upon with the scope of how many people play SF.

tl;dr: I hope Capcom takes community input into consideration on bigger issues, but the community and Capcom need to just let some shit rock and have better communication so that things like the DP change aren't complete surprises.

Only allowing big changes once a year makes magnifies both positive and negative aspects of said balance changes. Capcom should really consider doing them every six months instead with extremely minor updates every two or three months if anything is particularly egregious. Part of why community feedback worked so well with SG was the fact that patches on the steam version came daily (sometimes even twice or thrice because Mike is a workaholic like that). Community feedback definitely becomes a lot trickier to interpret and implement the fewer chances a developer has to balance a fighter.

I am actually fully in support of this.

They're going the right direction by giving Guile's cr.hp a CC property, Giving Birdie's AA cr.hp more opportunities for damage (you can do cr.hp AA xx heavy bullhead xx CA, GOD DAMN), Ryu and Vega's AA st.hk being a reliable CC and other examples, why not go a step further with that?

For Alex I'd like it if he could combo off his f.HP AA more reliably when it hits as a crush counter. Right now you have to blow V-Trigger just to combo into cr.HPxlp flash chopxCA off a CC f.HP AA. Urien's ability to combo off a traded cr.HP AA is dumb, but I do like that he can combo into hp fireballxshoulder tacklexCA off a cr.HP. More characters lacking strong AA punishes should get buffed in that respect come season 3. We're probably not getting much of that in season 2.5.

Spoiler

Karin has it even worse than Alex lol. Her AA situation is pretty dire for someone who has an invincible reversal

There are two different matches in a row, with increasing salt levels, culminating in this perfect scene:

The twelve win streak is the cherry on top.

You can't v-trigger off his cr.mk tho.

Thank fucking god for that.

Boy, has Capcom got a surprise for you...

Urien's cr.mk is like top tier 3S tier. Super long reach, very safe and it even combos into one of the strongest special moves in the game.

 

[mnz]

It's not just safe, it's +2 for some stupid reason. I really think that was an error. It makes no sense.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Here's the video starting at the Urien match:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121929262?t=2h36m40s

Lovin' James' stream

Exactly the kind of stuff I need to be watching, otherwise I'm gonna be Ultra-Bronze forever

 

[direct_quote]

Guile, Rashid and Urien are some of the really well balanced characters on SFV capcom should use them as their benchmark.

I don't know if they are too well balanced but they are fun because at least for Guile and Urien their normals aren't stubs and actually are fun to press because they are good. Capcom please adjust the stubby hitboxes..

 

[KidA Seven]

One of the communication changes Logan asked for in the latest Jump in podcast was a request for Capcom to directly express their vision for the game. That way it would be far easier for top players to give constructive feedback like "this change doesn't help your vision of the game" and so on. It also gives players a chance to accept or move on from the game if they don't want to play a game with that vision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOet5qKH4ro

 

[Zombegoast]

I struggle against Bison and played one who I was 100% was about to beat me easily until something happened. Only I have no idea what I or he did differently for me to turn it around.

Anybody see anything I don't or have any tips or suggestions for me (Nash)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgGuQZWTxtA

Any rank/skill level is welcome to chime in. I appreciate it.

You need to learn how to hit confirm. I would go into training, set block to random and cover your eyes and listen to the sfx.

Nash's St.LK is his best wake up button, never wake up Genocide Cutter. If your opponent miss time their meaty, you can use Nash's target combo. Also it beats Urien Knee Drop.

When playing against a character like Balrog, Knee Bazooka will beat his Dash Punch and is +1 on CH.

For meaties, always end your combo with a M Scythe mid screen. On both quick rises, you can dash forward and use F.HK. If your opponent like pressing buttons then you can do something like this...

And if they do not quick rise after the step kick, you can dash forward and meaty with St.lk and combo it off with MP. You also want to use St.LK as a meaty tool on knock down and you can use it to tick throw.


Nash's CA him at ADV. You can dash forward grab or B.MK. What I always do is walk slightly forward for a meaty overhead, whiff Cr.Lk and do a sweep. The success rate is 95%

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Tokido streaming:
https://www.openrec.tv/live/topangatv

 

[Skilletor]

One of the communication changes Logan asked for in the latest Jump in podcast was a request for Capcom to directly express their vision for the game. That way it would be far easier for top players to give constructive feedback like "this change doesn't help your vision of the game" and so on. It also gives players a chance to accept or move on from the game if they don't want to play a game with that vision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOet5qKH4ro

This is probably the best piece of advice I've read.

 

[CountBlack]

after watching PR Rog play USF4 again, I realized there isn't a single thing in SFV that's as satisfying as hitting a ex MGU dash U2 with Deejay in SF4.

from choosing if to you a 1f link to get a bit more damage
deciding if to use the mash version of ex MGU for less damage but more charge time or if I have enough charge I could use the non mash version for max damage.

I really miss tough execution surprisingly. It being gone in 5 makes it that nothing is really all too impressive. They lowered the ceiling for creativity so much in this game and it's really boring imo. For example, I haven't seen any new tech with Karin since her double jab reset lol and that was discovered like in March last year. I really hope they try to open the game up a bit and flesh it out in the next patch because there's nothing in this current version of the game (S1 & S2) that's really impressive tbh

 

[Mœbius]

One of the communication changes Logan asked for in the latest Jump in podcast was a request for Capcom to directly express their vision for the game. That way it would be far easier for top players to give constructive feedback like "this change doesn't help your vision of the game" and so on. It also gives players a chance to accept or move on from the game if they don't want to play a game with that vision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOet5qKH4ro

This is spot on.

What is the vision? How do they think the game should be played and how can that explain their design decisions regarding the core game systems as well as the character designs, moves etc?

I mean they clearly do have a vision based on comments like: "At this time, we can confirm additional changes are in the works to bring characters in-line with how we envision them to perform." So why not share that so you can get some valuable feedback from all parts of the community. It's frustrating that the devs at Dimps and Capcom Japan will never share this kind of vision.

 

[SolarPowered]

I don't know if they are too well balanced but they are fun because at least for Guile and Urien their normals aren't stubs and actually are fun to press because they are good. Capcom please adjust the stubby hitboxes..

A lot of characters would have to be looked over in that case. If S2.5 changes are structured anything like the S2 changes I'm expecting something like 10-20 pages worth of changes at best compared to the 92 pages we got in December. We'll probably have to wait until December again for major changes to the way current limbs and heavy/medium AA normals work.

 

[BadWolf]

after watching PR Rog play USF4 again, I realized there isn't a single thing in SFV that's as satisfying as hitting a ex MGU dash U2 with Deejay in SF4.

from choosing if to you a 1f link to get a bit more damage
deciding if to use the mash version of ex MGU for less damage but more charge time or if I have enough charge I could use the non mash version for max damage.

I really miss tough execution surprisingly. It being gone in 5 makes it that nothing is really all too impressive. They lowered the ceiling for creativity so much in this game and it's really boring imo. For example, I haven't seen any new tech with Karin since her double jab reset lol and that was discovered like in March last year. I really hope they try to open the game up a bit and flesh it out in the next patch because there's nothing in this current version of the game (S1 & S2) that's really impressive tbh

I stumbled across a Topanga league Daigo (SF4, E. Ryu) compilation I had saved on my HDD and man, the hype and excitement was on a whole different level compared to SFV.

 

[CountBlack]

I stumbled across a Topanga league Daigo (SF4, E. Ryu) compilation I had saved on my HDD and man, the hype and excitement was on a whole different level compared to SFV.

That's another thing. Last Topanga league for USF4 I was scrambling all over youtube looking for the matches and now I have them all available to watch and I couldn't care less to see them lol

 

[KidA Seven]

after watching PR Rog play USF4 again, I realized there isn't a single thing in SFV that's as satisfying as hitting a ex MGU dash U2 with Deejay in SF4.

from choosing if to you a 1f link to get a bit more damage
deciding if to use the mash version of ex MGU for less damage but more charge time or if I have enough charge I could use the non mash version for max damage.

I really miss tough execution surprisingly. It being gone in 5 makes it that nothing is really all too impressive. They lowered the ceiling for creativity so much in this game and it's really boring imo. For example, I haven't seen any new tech with Karin since her double jab reset lol and that was discovered like in March last year. I really hope they try to open the game up a bit and flesh it out in the next patch because there's nothing in this current version of the game (S1 & S2) that's really impressive tbh

I think it's fair to say that SFV is the most restrictive 2d fighting game we've seen in a long time. I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea.

This is probably the best piece of advice I've read.

It makes it easier for Capcom to sift through complaints too. Right now there's a bunch of criticism directed to a lot of areas because nobody is sure what exactly Capcom wants.

They did talk about their vision in that season 2 blogpost. They wanted to see more use of the V-system, which is the thing that makes characters unique and they wanted more neutral.

That's such a small portion of the game though. What is their overall vision for the game? Do they want to emphasize footsies? Rushdown? Do they not want zoning to be largely viable? What about throw loops? They remove Ryu's, but let other characters have them.

We do know they don't want option selects. That was something they shared early on. And so far we can see how that worked out. I know it's asking a lot, but it would make it easier for Capcom and the fanbase.

 

[mnz]

They did talk about their vision in that season 2 blogpost. They wanted to see more use of the V-system, which is the thing that makes characters unique and they wanted more neutral.

 

[CountBlack]

I think it's fair to say that SFV is the most restrictive 2d fighting game we've seen in a long time. I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea.

I've been saying this since the betas. I have no idea why they moved away from such an open system in 4.

 

[Mœbius]

They did talk about their vision in that season 2 blogpost. They wanted to see more use of the V-system, which is the thing that makes characters unique and they wanted more neutral.

In that case they've definitely failed. lol

I've not seen anything from the game / battle directors in Japan but assuming that whatever the Capcom US guys say comes from them, fair enough. Though the point remains: saying that they want more neutral is not a clear vision unless they explain how they aim to achieve this. Same with V-system: obviously it's meant to give each character a unique ability - that's inherent in the mechanic - but how does that have a knock-on effect to the game as a whole (such as neutral play), and their vision for it. And if using the V elements is so important why universally nerf v-reversals. There's just no (apparent) consistent vision.