ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I don't see a problem really. Good players using the best characters.
Better than 3S top 8s, hehe.
And I like 3S and SFV both
And we got a devour hour sighting.
Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
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I don't see a problem really. Good players using the best characters.
Better than 3S top 8s, hehe.
And I like 3S and SFV both
And we got a devour hour sighting.
Isn't that a weird example, when Karin still has the advantage against Rog in the MU?
Urien is not even CLOSE to Vanilla Sagat level.
TheSpoiler
Member
SolarPowered
Member
oof
I meant hitboxes.
The balancing isn't bad. It's just that negatives are magnified when Capcom plans to only apply major balance updates once a year. It sounds nice on paper, but it doesn't end well in application imo.
Literally the only thing SF4 does better than SFV is have a larger roster. SFV is the far better fighter.
TheSpoiler
Member
Why didn't he just stick with Laura!?!?
That was free.
Ah gotcha. Yeah, that'd be fine, especially on AAs.
That was free.
Ah gotcha. Yeah, that'd be fine, especially on AAs.
TheTylerRob
Member
I've got it installed. Seems pretty great so far. I hope more people install so that online goes a little faster.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
If balance = good, more balanced = better.
TheSpoiler
Member
Wew Smug can't let Chris get anything started with this Urien or he'll take it.
TheTylerRob
Member
Yeah but those games manage to be fun even when they're not balanced.
Good thing those are not mutually exclusive things.
TheTylerRob
Member
That's what I'm saying? I think the balance is pretty easy to fix with some tweaking, they just need to make the game more fun.
TheSpoiler
Member
I think the fun has more to do with your tolerance of the broken shit in proportion to the fun you are having. I hated fighting Sagat and 4 wasn't really my game compared to V so I had far less fun fighting a Sagat than a current Urien.
OH GOD SMUG WITH THESE EX DASH CANCELS INTO THROWS
GOD DAMN
OH GOD SMUG WITH THESE EX DASH CANCELS INTO THROWS
GOD DAMN
Zombegoast
Member
Alpha 3 was actually fun.
Not like I'm neutral either, but I think I'd call that a fairly even matchup. It's mostly about who can get the momentum on their side first (though granted, Rog can make the comeback and get his own shit started better than most characters thanks to his NUTTY ASS DAMAGE).
SolarPowered
Member
Some heavy and medium AAs could use slightly better hitboxes, but the real problem is the low damage on punishes which don't do enough do discourage jumping. I know I'm always on about Alex, but he is a good example in this case. In the case of Alex even a successful cr.HP AA sometimes doesn't allow a NORMAL air knee strike to combo. On the other hand Urien can even convert into cr.HP>HP fireball>shoulder tackle>CA off a traded cr.HP. Other characters like Karin straight up have garbage AA normals. More characters need a closer look in the AA normal department. Maybe some could use new combos off AA normals, more damage on those buttons/specials or maybe Capcom should look to reversing some of the oki changes, so that previously nerfed characters can apply strong pressure after successful punishes (think air knee strike oki changes in season 2).
Season 2 is weird despite how even the game feels from a balance perspective.
TheSpoiler
Member
I just want Smug to win to make MikeandIke mad again.
Even juggles off of AAs would help so that you have a better reason to take the trade. Some characters have that, but it's definitely not enough across the board. That is, again, a good way of fixing the problem of defense this game has.
I just don't want it to get too heavy like every SF game seems to do in its direction. It's not a game killer for me, but SF4 had so many defensive options it was ridiculous. I hope they don't take SFV in that direction with the offense.
Offense is nice, but S1 at least gave people the ability to flip that switch and go defensive as well. You just kinda had to be a master at both.
EDIT: THUGGERY
ABSOLUTE THUGGERY
Even juggles off of AAs would help so that you have a better reason to take the trade. Some characters have that, but it's definitely not enough across the board. That is, again, a good way of fixing the problem of defense this game has.
I just don't want it to get too heavy like every SF game seems to do in its direction. It's not a game killer for me, but SF4 had so many defensive options it was ridiculous. I hope they don't take SFV in that direction with the offense.
Offense is nice, but S1 at least gave people the ability to flip that switch and go defensive as well. You just kinda had to be a master at both.
EDIT: THUGGERY
ABSOLUTE THUGGERY
TheTylerRob
Member
The thuggery tho
Nice.
Thanks for the output guys. It looks like the balancing is a mixed bag of some sort.
I guess people just find it really challenging or
to adjust their skills with the changes applied.
Easier said than done but I think gamers should live by the lessons from the quotes of characters..
And yes, I hate Urien, Balrog, Vega, Guile, Bison, and Cammy. #bitter
I guess people just find it really challenging or
hard
Easier said than done but I think gamers should live by the lessons from the quotes of characters..
And yes, I hate Urien, Balrog, Vega, Guile, Bison, and Cammy. #bitter
I kid!! Hadouken all the way!!
Not even close, my friend. Urien's amazing in Season 2, sure, but he doesn't rule over SFV with an iron fist (hell, he may not be the best character in SFV Season 2). Vanilla SFIV Sagat on the other hand was a force of nature. If SFV S2 Urien is Vegeta, then Vanilla SFIV Sagat is Whis.
TheSpoiler
Member
It's always been like that with fighting games. Even before patches, 'cept the reliance on balance changes has helped make that more vocal. And social media, of course.
Adaptation is kinda difficult in general. You put in a lot of hard work and suddenly things get shifted around, and hell if doesn't take months for things in fighters to get normalized. Salt, too, affects how we see shit, and seeing other people complain helps out in confirming something that happened rather than taking it to the lab and checking. It's not just SF, it's all fighting games. Tekken gets heat in its community, GG does as well, and so on. The more people that play, the more complaints. That's just numbers - Gundam Full Boost would be on blast way more than SFV if more people played it (and from what I hear, MaxiBoost as well).
Also, older games have the advantage of time. People just kinda accept stuff after a while. Doesn't make them bad or good, it just becomes an 'it is what it is" sorta thing.
SFV could stand to fix some stuff, but it's definitely not in a bad place. I think because people play it so much that we want changes more feverishly, and Capcom's reliance on one (or now two) balance patches per year makes that worse.
TheSpoiler
Member
Wait Punk got to Top 8 with Nash?!
Who is this kid?!
Who is this kid?!
Nemesis121
Member
Cammy vs Urien was unwatchable....how many fucking overheads you gonna get hit with? lol
Rickenslacker
Banned
As others have said, it's been way worse in other games. I wouldn't even consider it bad with S2, most of the cast is pretty viable. I don't know why tiers seem to be such a strong subject with SF5 and people acting like the top tier are some untouchable cut above the rest, in truth it just means they have like a couple more 6-4s on their side, heh.
direct_quote
Member
I think people just want more defensive options, to make the game not feel as highly momentum based (and sometimes random AF). Like Chris G even said in his interview that he didn't necessarily want invincible meterless DPs back (after 3f).
Because the way tiers work out in this game makes it overall less FUN, regardless of how viable the cast might be overall. It's not fun getting steamrolled by a top tier character going completely and utterly ham because their buttons are all positive while you have literally zero options.
Yeah the issue is in the system mechanics not in the character balance.
There isn't enough freedom in the game through the mechanics. There aren't enough defensive styles in the game.
But most importantly the whole appeal of the game was supposed to be more focus on neutral and spacing/footsies but the game isn't excelling at that because of poor whiff punishing, anti airs, slow walk speeds vs fast dashes and in general limbs.
And reversal DPs are just a scapegoat, it's not going to fix the issue just like having them in S1 didn't make S1 a ton better. Though the crush counters should definitely be removed from meterless DPs at the very least.
There isn't enough freedom in the game through the mechanics. There aren't enough defensive styles in the game.
But most importantly the whole appeal of the game was supposed to be more focus on neutral and spacing/footsies but the game isn't excelling at that because of poor whiff punishing, anti airs, slow walk speeds vs fast dashes and in general limbs.
And reversal DPs are just a scapegoat, it's not going to fix the issue just like having them in S1 didn't make S1 a ton better. Though the crush counters should definitely be removed from meterless DPs at the very least.
The problem was that they made a game mashing up SF2 and SF3 w/ SFA normals w/ an offensive focus without considering that SF2 works because of the annoying defensive shit that low levels players complain about.
There's very little of SF2 in SFV to be honest.
SF2 doesn't have great defensive options either aside from reversal DPs which you can't as easily mash them out because of the timing window. Throws couldn't be fully teched, you didn't have dashes and certainly didn't have V reversal to escape pressure. What made SF2 work is that if out tried to jump in on someone and got anti aired it would take a huge chunk of your life so there was more of a risk/reward ratio there. Or if you got swept/got hit by a normal in footsies then it actually hurt. Games could easily end without anyone landing a combo and if they landed a full combo then the game would certainly end very fast.
SF2 doesn't have great defensive options either aside from reversal DPs which you can't as easily mash them out because of the timing window. Throws couldn't be fully teched, you didn't have dashes and certainly didn't have V reversal to escape pressure. What made SF2 work is that if out tried to jump in on someone and got anti aired it would take a huge chunk of your life so there was more of a risk/reward ratio there. Or if you got swept/got hit by a normal in footsies then it actually hurt. Games could easily end without anyone landing a combo and if they landed a full combo then the game would certainly end very fast.
I think the issue comes when balance directly impacts how fun the game is. That's the reason Mika got nerfed significantly: because she wasn't fun to play against or watch. The problem is that S2 brought a bunch of "unfun" buffs and nerfs to characters. A lot of people have been saying how Capcom seems to want people to play characters in a very specific way with no room for freedom, and that's just not fun.
SolarPowered
Member
Alex needs more thuggery on his D j.HP flying cross chop. It improved combo-wise in SFV, but it lost it's juggling property and it's ease/versatility of use mid air. It should be usable during neutral jumps and at far more points in the forward jump arc like it was in 3S.
Not quite
We'd all be playing VF, KOF XIII, VSav, AC+, AC+R, Skullgirl:2E, SFV and SF4. It's not a terrible selection to choose from imo.
The stun/damage design was clearly based around recreating SF2.
Then they nerfed all the damage because of their shitty online setup due to games being over in .5 seconds.
I mean there's certainly a subset of people who think this but... I have more fun playing SFV even in it's allegedly trashy second season than I did with SF4. I don't hate SF4 either I just have more fun playing 5 right now.
Honestly- if they'd launched SF5 with the exact level of features that 4 had when it came to consoles, no one would even be comparing them but... you know, devils advocate - it's been just over a year since SF5's release and it still doesn't have a full trial mode like 4's, it still doesn't have a standard arcade mode with a proper "boss" at the end. So ... you know there's a lot going against it but... it's more fun to play for me. I can also say that there isn't a character in SFV that I hate as much as Rufus in SF4.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
You can't get the normal knee strike if the cr.HP hits twice as AA unless you are facing the corner (I've never seen it). Depending on angle, if it hits once, you can get the knee out in the open.
You just do lp flash chop mid screen instead of knee. You can cancel into super if the flash chop hits them low to the ground (it will whiff other wise).
Other people are doing more damage of course though.
that's really what it comes down to.
When I enjoyed the game i could look past all these things. It was janky but charming in a weird way
When my interest dropped all of these turned me away and it became harder to really look past them, especially if they kept me from actually playing.
It's your fault for playing Vega lol, honestly i tried beating normal survival with Vega and i hated every moment of it.
Don't know if it's because of the population, the gameplay, or me just getting better over the years but I'm actually enjoying Street Fighter online.
Super Street Fighter IV online destroyed my core soul. It just seemed like every person I went against online on SSF IV was a god damn pro and I would get mercilessly merked. It's like really refreshing to be ranked with players that actually feel like they are on the same skill level as me.
Super Street Fighter IV online destroyed my core soul. It just seemed like every person I went against online on SSF IV was a god damn pro and I would get mercilessly merked. It's like really refreshing to be ranked with players that actually feel like they are on the same skill level as me.
spazchicken
Member
Probably doesn't hurt that SFIV's online ran like the characters were underwater while SFV's online for the most part feel like the person is sitting right next to you.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Gameplay wise I much prefer V over IV, though I'll gladly admit that it is not without issues, and actually had a hard time going back to IV after playing the betas back when. And while I love the addition of cross-play, for example, technically speaking there are many areas where V is a significant step down from IV.
Spuck-uk
Banned
The top tiers in SFV aren't even remotely comparable to the top tiers in 3rd strike though (also, Laura isn't even top 5). There's definitely more character viability and variety in V.
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