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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs

O

Omnistalgic

Member
Interview is on point. Main points I agree with... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R5XZ4HWjWQ&feature=youtu.be

- SFV did fix a lot of things people hated in SF4
- Stop being so reactionary, we don't actually want things like crouch OS/Backdash back
- SFV just may have went too far to other side (offense) and needs better balance
- DP nerf, V-reversal being slower, Jump OS are examples of too much leaning on offense
- There is an online and offline tier list
- Ibuki, Karin, Guile, Cammy are top tier, Balrog offline really can be beaten with practice
- Online, Balrog and Bison are absolute terrors lol
- QOL improvements are overdue
- Base game is good and fun, just need tweaking
 
E

ElFly

Member
BlitzKeeg said:
Yeah the counter is so bad that it's a mistake 90% of the time. I've done it intentionally like twice.

I haven't actually seen his new trials. What is the last one?
Click to expand...

a somewhat big combo that ends in Headbutt -> cMP -> 720

I can do cMP -> 720 all the time (it is in fact my favorite cancel to super), but after the headbutt, doing cMP makes my super come out too late/far away and it whiffs

maybe I am missing a microwalk after the headbutt, but trying that has fucked my execution and thus I get the counter. or maybe it is a 1 frame link I am missing. haven't looked at the frame data for it
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
Omnistalgic said:
Interview is on point. Main points I agree with... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R5XZ4HWjWQ&feature=youtu.be

- SFV did fix a lot of things people hated in SF4
- Stop being so reactionary, we don't actually want things like crouch OS/Backdash back
- SFV just may have went too far to other side (offense) and needs better balance
- DP nerf, V-reversal being slower, Jump OS are examples of too much leaning on offense
- There is an online and offline tier list
- Ibuki, Karin, Guile, Cammy are top tier, Balrog offline really can be beaten with practice
- Online, Balrog and Bison are absolute terrors lol
- QOL improvements are overdue
- Base game is good and fun, just need tweaking
Click to expand...
Yep, even with its issues, I still find SF5 in a state that is much much better than SF4 ever was.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Lulubop said:
Sajam is a good dude
Click to expand...

When he said he wanted an Avatar fighter, I was like

old-spice-guy-head-nod.gif
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Rickenslacker said:
Yep, even with its issues, I still find SF5 in a state that is much much better than SF4 ever was.
Click to expand...

That goes without saying really.

Lulubop said:
Sajam is a good dude
Click to expand...

Indeed. Even though he is young the amount of knowledge he already has with a lot of fighting games is remarkable. What he also said about having a wide perspective was very true and it's one of the reasons why I trust his opinion more than most.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
The commentators and personalities keep saying it's a great base game, but everyone hates on that base game. People often find it boring. In fact, a common complaint that it has is the lack of defensive options or defensive playstyles. The base game being great has become a meme at this point. You have James Chen spending most of his time playing Guilty Gear and praising how fun the game is and complaining how he can't get his execution/combo fix on SFV. Can you fix those problems without completely changing the base game? Xian doesn't think so.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
KidA Seven said:
The commentators and personalities keep saying it's a great base game, but everyone hates on that base game. People often find it boring. In fact, a common complaint that it has is the lack of defensive options or defensive playstyles. The base game being great has become a meme at this point. You have James Chen spending most of his time playing Guilty Gear and praising how fun the game is and complaining how he can't get his execution/combo fix on SFV. Can you fix those problems without completely changing the base game? Xian doesn't think so.
Click to expand...

From Sajam's interview he does like the game and prefers it more than SF4, but like you mentioned, he does go onto say defensive options need to be heightened to give that balance between offence and defence. Can they fix and adjust the game to do this? Most likely. The big question is if they are willing to do it.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
KidA Seven said:
The commentators and personalities keep saying it's a great base game, but everyone hates on that base game. People often find it boring. In fact, a common complaint that it has is the lack of defensive options or defensive playstyles. The base game being great has become a meme at this point. You have James Chen spending most of his time playing Guilty Gear and praising how fun the game is and complaining how he can't get his execution/combo fix on SFV. Can you fix those problems without completely changing the base game? Xian doesn't think so.
Click to expand...

/shrug

Some games aren't for everybody. I hate SF4. Nothing they change about SF4 made me like it.

At some point, people are going to need to realize they don't like SF5 and move on because bitching about it and continuing to play it makes you look stupid.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
I personally don't think it's a great game at its base. What I agree on is that it needs less tweaks than it might seem to make it a great one. I doubt they will make those changes though.

Either way when's Abby Gail
Not sure why I still care about new characters, but I guess sfv development itself is a spectacle
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
MrCarter said:
From Sajam's interview he does like the game and prefers it more than SF4, but like you mentioned, he does go onto say defensive options need to be heightened to give that balance between offence and defence. Can they fix and adjust the game to do this? Most likely. The big question is if they are willing to do it.
Click to expand...

But those adjustments would change the base game wouldn't it? That's what I'm trying to say. If the base game was great for them they wouldn't be pointing out those mistakes. That's what I think Xian and Alioune were getting at in their series of tweets. Xian said it was like Jenga. You change one thing and the whole thing falls apart. To me, Marvel might fit that "base game is great" description more. People are loving the gameplay, but people are pointing out the art direction and dislike of the roster.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Well you just mentioned it. The defensive options. Things snowbal way too hard and fast. It makes it hard to have fun, it makes it hard for some characters to establish their gameplay, and it's stressful. Like having better v reversals would help reset things so they don't go crazy every single moment.

Want less 5050 situations? Put in better wake up options so that the aggressor doesn't just get free shit while the other person has to hold that.
 
E

ElFly

Member
SFV is totally fixable to give it more defensive options that work and wouldn't even be too drastic a change

SFV would need a lot of rework to reward high execution in combos and it would break the game. either you make longer high execution combos that make even _more_ damage, or you nerf current combos. or you adopt some of the dumb "perfect timing" combos suggestions but you also need to nerf the current damage

and also I feel the former problem is bigger than the later
 
J

jett

D-Member
So why is Bison so good online, and only online? I can relate to this notion, I keep getting destroyed by these fucks. I yet I see Bison nowhere in tournaments.

FluxWaveZ said:
Gotta keep in mind that, if a Gief isn't against a Dhalsim, Birdie, and kinda Guile and Nash, the opponent is terrified at all times because everything can go south extremely fast. It takes a special kind of person to be competent with Zangief, though. Like Dhalsim players. If you're not that kind of person, it might be a character you can simply never gel with.
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure Gief is for me. Gonna have to try somebody else, cuz I'm getting nowhere with Mika. Honestly I'm kinda tired of everything revolving around 50/50 wakeups and CCs. I'm not sure if SFV is for me. :p

vulva said:
lol top 2 char in the game is a struggle?
Click to expand...

Well I guess I'm just not used to playing so defensively.
 
E

ElFly

Member
brah, Gief is easy mode

spin to win

abusable AA with Lariat, and also serviceable AA with cHP and sLP

basically a parry with the V-skill

ridiculous grab range on SPD and air SPD

some of the best buttons in the game. if you complain about short puny limbs in this game, Zangief is the char for you

the cons are: a few hard matchups (but then again not that many people play dhalsim. the real problem is Guile) maybe 720 is too hard for you?
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Village said:
Sajam and tasty steve are gifts

and their show is funnier than excellent adventures
Click to expand...

It helps that they play games where you don't have to wait 5 minutes between matches.

I guess they're funnier during downtime, too, though. The point is, fuck every other game for having fast matchmaking. Why SFV so bad?
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Want less 5050 situations? Put in better wake up options so that the aggressor doesn't just get free shit while the other person has to hold that.
Click to expand...

I'm going to throw this suggestion out there again. Instead of a mechanic or a OS, just make every throw(forward or back) completely reset the situation mid screen. Nobody gets a free meaty. If they walk forward or dash up than they'll be at frame disadvantage. You only get a free meaty in the corner, but no throw loop. Bump throw damage and stun up a bit for balance. Something like 140/150 damage and 200/230 stun for forward and back throw.

Afraid that you'll get blown up for pressing buttons? Just take the throw if you can afford to and reset the situation. I think it would make a big difference and would be better for the game.
 
B

BlitzKeeg

Member
ElFly said:
brah, Gief is easy mode

spin to win

abusable AA with Lariat, and also serviceable AA with cHP and sLP

basically a parry with the V-skill

ridiculous grab range on SPD and air SPD

some of the best buttons in the game. if you complain about short puny limbs in this game, Zangief is the char for you

the cons are: a few hard matchups (but then again not that many people play dhalsim. the real problem is Guile) maybe 720 is too hard for you?
Click to expand...

He's certainly easier now, but Gief has never been an execution heavy character.

I'm finding him much easier now after the patch, but in the previous seasons I wouldn't really call him "easy mode" because it was so hard to get in.

He's improved over time, but if you don't have the right mindset you're never going to get anything started.

Most of his improvements seem to be the nerfing of other characters. Ryu and Nash aren't what they used to be, so these characters that can change their playstyles quickly don't give him as much trouble any more.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
They need to remove the loading screen when you finish an online match and go back to training mode. I don't remember what game did it but it was great. That's the main reason I don't go to training mode when looking for matches.
 
K

kirblar

Member
The problem isn't even defensive options, it's in tuning the game to make it so characters are forcibly reset apart from each other rather than allowing for so much unrelenting pressure where someone's breathing down your neck.
 
J

joe2187

Banned
HardRojo said:
They need to remove the loading screen when you finish an online match and go back to training mode. I don't remember what game did it but it was great. That's the main reason I don't go to training mode when looking for matches.
Click to expand...

It loads like 3xs faster than it did before now. And the hicupping is almost gone entirely during fight request during training.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
kirblar said:
The problem isn't even defensive options, it's in tuning the game to make it so characters are forcibly reset apart from each other rather than allowing for so much unrelenting pressure where someone's breathing down your neck.
Click to expand...

Yeah. SFIV had the same problem, and it's a big part of why I never enjoyed SFIV. One reason Smash is among my favorite games, and why DBFZ has me so excited, is that both games reset the neutral after you get hit. Marvel games have a ton of oki, but very little pressure due to pushblock. Guilty Gear has a ton of pressure, but there are also an incredible number of defensive options to stop that pressure.

SFV doesn't have any of these things. Just a lot of frustration when you're on defense.
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
HardRojo said:
They need to remove the loading screen when you finish an online match and go back to training mode. I don't remember what game did it but it was great. That's the main reason I don't go to training mode when looking for matches.
Click to expand...
For sure training mode shouldn't have a full versus screen with music and all that bullshit.

They also need to condense the fight results bullshit into a single screen where if both players hit a button the rematch option appears instantly.
 
E

ElFly

Member
BlitzKeeg said:
He's certainly easier now, but Gief has never been an execution heavy character.

I'm finding him much easier now after the patch, but in the previous seasons I wouldn't really call him "easy mode" because it was so hard to get in.

He's improved over time, but if you don't have the right mindset you're never going to get anything started.

Most of his improvements seem to be the nerfing of other characters. Ryu and Nash aren't what they used to be, so these characters that can change their playstyles quickly don't give him as much trouble any more.
Click to expand...

yeah, Nash gave him a ton of trouble in S1. In S2 ... he is still a lot of trouble! but it is not as bad

that and Lariat buff were likely enough to push him p far up the meta
 
P

Pompadour

Member
KidA Seven said:
But those adjustments would change the base game wouldn't it? That's what I'm trying to say. If the base game was great for them they wouldn't be pointing out those mistakes. That's what I think Xian and Alioune were getting at in their series of tweets. Xian said it was like Jenga. You change one thing and the whole thing falls apart. To me, Marvel might fit that "base game is great" description more. People are loving the gameplay, but people are pointing out the art direction and dislike of the roster.
Click to expand...

Marvel isn't out, though. People didn't really start harping on SFV's gameplay until months after launch.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Yup, fixed a lot of things that people hated in SF4.

Footsies was the worst thing about SF4. Glad that Necalli's 5f Cr.MP can punish Akuma's fireball
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Nice. Talking to my new ISP seems to have fixed my problems.

Turns out that you can have a 1000/1000 Mbit fiber connection, and still be stuck with absolutely shit connections in-game if your ISP is doing silly things.
 
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