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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs

O

Omnistalgic

Member
ElFly said:
well, like a lot of things on the SFV balance, they supposedly took out throw loops...for some people. ideally they wouldn't be there, or would be a lot worse



be careful with your DPs tho. do them late, and only if gief is above you. otherwise you can be air-SPD'd out of them easily
Click to expand...
Tks for this!! This happens once and I was like WTF was that??!!!!! I usually DP pretty late. Gonna start saving my V-trigger to get more damage out of a AA too.
lucebuce12 said:
:(
But.... shotos also have AA normals ��

Basically, FANG's st.mk and a very well timed cr.mk gets the job done 95% of the time. Sometimes you can also do a st.lp if he's trying to delay it a bit, but not worth the risk.

But that 5% where it doesn't work, ohhhh boy.

With Birdie, it's a pretty shitty situation since the anti air that covers the space up and in front of him is his cr.hp and that buttons is S-L-O-W. Sometimes Bullhorn is a decent option but not always.
Robert-Redford-Nod.gif
Click to expand...
yeah but they are situational and really quicker options that getting out a DP.

Like Ryu may purposely go for jab to dash under you for mixup. I do that with Ken's C.HP immediate run, and depending on spacing there's a mini guess what side I'll be on when you land. From far away you can use Ryu's HK, Ken's St.MK etc...Akuma has some nice stuff with his C.HP as well. But the tried and true AA for shoto is DP, no doubt.

I feel like Birdies headbutt is unjumpable lol...I miss being able to Tatsu it.
 
S

Sayad

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I play 2 characters with no DPs but decent anti air normals, and gief's j.mk still stuffs them.

What do I do?
Click to expand...
Against like half the cast, every Gief jump is a 50/50, if you AA normly j.MK stuffs your AA, if you try to AA his j.MK and he goes for anything else your AA whiff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

S2 is the first SF ever where Gief/Chun match up is in Gief favor.
 
E

ElFly

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I play 2 characters with no DPs but decent anti air normals, and gief's j.mk still stuffs them.

What do I do?
Click to expand...

I think the best option is to get better with the normals. you prolly can at least trade with some consistency, and that's enough to give you advantage
 
M

mbpm1

Member
If gief jump mks high up he's supposed to be slightly negative like Camus dive kick I think. I haven't been able to take advantage of it in a match properly yet but in theory...
 
M

MrCarter

Member
JusDoIt said:
The delays are confirmed to set back the rest of the schedule? Menat should just drop at the end of August or early September and Zeku should make October. MvCI got bigger problems than SFV DLC tho.
Click to expand...

Menat should drop in August but who am I kidding, they won't do two characters in 2 months.
 
K

killu4what

Member
Count is going to systematically get everybody to play SF4 again by drowning them with a tidal wave of essays.

I have Ultra installed and take all challengers
 
M

mbpm1

Member
MrCarter said:
Menat should drop in August but who am I kidding, they won't do two characters in 2 months.
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Two months between characters is my gauge.

I assume they're doing something that will make a delay for menat so more than two months equals early November for menaRD. I mean Menat
 
J

JusDoIt

Member
hey_it's_that_dog said:
Christ this game looks disgusting. People can't get over Ken's face but in SFIV everybody's everything was garbage. (I know it's because of a contrast effect.)
Click to expand...

SFIV looks good in action, but my god it's ugly in stills. I was so turned off when I first saw pictures of it online. It wasn't until I saw it live in person that I decided to buy it.
 
Shadoken

Shadoken

Member
MrCarter said:
Menat should drop in August but who am I kidding, they won't do two characters in 2 months.
Click to expand...

I am expecting Aug 30th will have some kind of update for the 30th anniversary , maybe with Menat?

Blueblur1 said:
Menat in September or October, IMO. This is Capcom after all.
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I cant see Menat pushed to October, because that would mean Zeku is out in November and Sagat is in December?


Menat in August and Zeku in October make sense. November we will get a Sagat tease and he will be revealed at PSX like Akuma.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Omnistalgic said:
https://youtu.be/Y28TeaXgQoA

Btw I wasn't compete trash at SF4...come on now. I'm sure Count is stronger, but I do play fighting games overall.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to say you were trash at SFIV, I was just going off of what you had said previously. That you stopped playing at Super, that you thought honda's butt slam was overpowered, that Guy's elbow was broken. You didn't say you played any Ultra until now lol, if you had said before that you played every iteration of SF4 for a bit then I probably wouldn't have went at your neck saying you probably don't have a firm grasp of the systems in the game. But I was under the impression that you quit at Super in like 2010 lol
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Ucchedavāda;244360938 said:
I am actually not sure why fighting games require that both players are seeing the same stage. As long as dimensions are the same, and as long as the two players sync up after any stage transitions, then it shouldn't matter.
Click to expand...
It's technically possible, but very implausible.
Engines sync up a lot of stuff and throw a fit when something they have to load isn't loading. Something small like the lightning on akuma stage will be synced up even
Stage transitions throw an even bigger wrench in this happening because the engine is expecting a state that just isn't there, boom crash.
You'd have to build a system that drops sync for everything cept characters or 2 systems that are individually synced.
Both aren't worth the time/effort, take more precious cpu time away and would almost certainly add lag.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Shadoken said:
I cant see Menat pushed to October, because that would mean Zeku is out in November and Sagat is in December?
Click to expand...

1008131
Click to expand...
.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Reizo Ryuu said:
It's technically possible, but very implausible.
Engines sync up a lot of stuff and throw a fit when something they have to load isn't loading. Something small like the lightning on akuma stage will be synced up even
Stage transitions throw an even bigger wrench in this happening because the engine is expecting a state that just isn't there, boom crash.
You'd have to build a system that drops sync for everything cept characters or 2 systems that are individually synced.
Both aren't worth the time/effort, take more precious cpu time away and would almost certainly add lag.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Unless the outcome of matches are affected by stage interactions, which is not the case for SFV, then each player needs only transmit and receive the player input, as well as occasional state for consistency checks. Given the deterministic nature of the game, that is wholly adequate to represent both players on either end.

The stage, on the other hand, can be handled entirely locally as far as I know. There is no stage information that actually needs to be transmitted in SFV during matches, though it may be necessary with a synchronization step between rounds to ensure that both players have gone through whatever stage transitions they are seeing on their end.

You need look no further than stage mods for proof that what I am describing is possible.
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Ucchedavāda;244370160 said:
This is not true. Unless the outcome of matches are affected by stage interactions, which is not the case for SFV, then each player needs only transmit and receive the player input, as well as occasional state for consistency checks. Given the deterministic nature of the game, that is wholly adequate to represent both players on either end.

The stage, on the other hand, can be handled entirely locally as far as I know. There is no stage information that actually needs to be transmitted in SFV during matches, though it may be necessary with a synchronization step between rounds to ensure that both players have gone through whatever stage transitions they are seeing on their end.

You need look no further than stage mods for proof that what I am describing is possible.
Click to expand...
Just because a stage is modded, doesn't mean its states aren't synchronised, states aren't visual, it's just the engine being told "this needs to happen now".
These states are still there even if you mod a stage, but each stage has unique states.
Per example, the day training stage gets some actual states like stage transitions, is the day I'll have to remove the stage mod I use for, because it will never be able to properly sync up with the new states, because the modded stage doesn't have them.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Sayad said:
Go to training mode, make Urien whiff st.HP then block with different timings, try whiff punishing it on reaction with Karin's st.MK this time. There's no way you can't react and punish Urien's st.HP unless you have a TV with abysmal lag.
Click to expand...

Cool I was able to whiff punish with Nash Knee Bazooka.

Which is -1 on hit.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Going into training mode and trying to do anything "on reaction" except random block hitcosf isn't "on reaction" since you know what's coming.
 
S

SephLuis

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I play 2 characters with no DPs but decent anti air normals, and gief's j.mk still stuffs them.

What do I do?
Click to expand...

You have to check which normals are going to beat his j.mk

I think that, in my case, my st.HP would beat it but if not I can fall back on MK SRK.
If a jump in is too slow, which is a case of Gief's jump in, you can also try dashing under him.

Edzi said:
stream this
Click to expand...

Agreed. We want to see this fight live. Salty bets will be on.

Marvel said:
I can never jump on Juri's, her jab checks me every time.
Click to expand...

Depending on the jump in, the jab doesn't work. She has a lot of AA options, but all buttons also lose to some normals in the air. For example, Vega has a jump-in that will beat or trade against all Juri's normal and she has to MK SRK in order to AA him.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
SephLuis said:
You have to check which normals are going to beat his j.mk

I think that, in my case, my st.HP would beat it but if not I can fall back on MK SRK.
If a jump in is too slow, which is a case of Gief's jump in, you can also try dashing under him.
Click to expand...
I know bro, I was just being facetious. It's like you guys forgot about me :(
lucebuce12 said:
Basically, FANG's st.mk and a very well timed cr.mk gets the job done 95% of the time. Sometimes you can also do a st.lp if he's trying to delay it a bit, but not worth the risk.

But that 5% where it doesn't work, ohhhh boy.

With Birdie, it's a pretty shitty situation since the anti air that covers the space up and in front of him is his cr.hp and that buttons is S-L-O-W. Sometimes Bullhorn is a decent option but not always.
Click to expand...
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Sayad said:
Look up a Nash beginners guide, you might find a better punish. ;p

Either way, congrats, now you know why Urien doesn't get to spam st.HP in high level play.
Click to expand...
I don't know.

If I was a Urien player, I'd happily spam that shit if a whiff punish was just a medium normal which is not at all guaranteed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Reizo Ryuu said:
Just because a stage is modded, doesn't mean its states aren't synchronised, states aren't visual, it's just the engine being told "this needs to happen now".
These states are still there even if you mod a stage, but each stage has unique states.
Per example, the day training stage gets some actual states like stage transitions, is the day I'll have to remove the stage mod I use for, because it will never be able to properly sync up with the new states, because the modded stage doesn't have them.
Click to expand...

You are not contradicting what I am saying.
Stage effects triggered by input (NPCs, breakable stuff, etc.) can be handled locally (as shown by mods), whereas stuff such as stage transitions need some sort of synchronization step to ensure that both players are through any stage transitions. It is not so big a change as you are suggesting.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
The only thing you'd have to mess with are the (skippable) animations that play during a stage transition but other than that, I think it's doable.

But it's probably not something that's WORTH the effort though. Even for games being worked on with actual budgets, let alone Ono's mom's knitting budget.
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Ucchedavāda;244373058 said:
You are not contradicting what I am saying.
Stage effects triggered by input (NPCs, breakable stuff, etc.) can be handled locally (as shown by mods), whereas stuff such as stage transitions need some sort of synchronization step to ensure that both players are through any stage transitions. It is not so big a change as you are suggesting.
Click to expand...
Like I said states aren't visual, just because you don't see the airforce base prop break because your modded stage doesn't have them, doesn't mean the actual state isn't happening and getting synced up regardless. You could theoretically make the entire stage invisible and still have it call, perform and sync up every state properly.
However you can't sync up stated that aren't there, this would require additional systems as I mentioned.
 
Shadoken

Shadoken

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I don't know.

If I was a Urien player, I'd happily spam that shit if a whiff punish was just a medium normal which is not at all guaranteed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

On Hit - 302 Dmg + corner carry

On whiff - 60 dmg

Seems fair

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The only way to dissuade a Urien player from St.HP is to predictive jump in and do a 302 dmg combo + corner Carry.
 
P

Pompadour

Member
lucebuce12 said:
The only thing you'd have to mess with are the (skippable) animations that play during a stage transition but other than that, I think it's doable.

But it's probably not something that's WORTH the effort though. Even for games being worked on with actual budgets, let alone Ono's mom's knitting budget.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see what benefit this is to Capcom.

Pro: Maybe it's doable and not that hard to program?
Con: The community isn't clamoring for this feature so it would be a waste of development resources. Plus, players may be incentivized to spend $$$ on DLC stages if their opponent picks them and they see how cool they are. Same logic for forcing everyone to see what costume/color your opponent is wearing.
 
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