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Street Fighter V: Season 2 changes

L

lucebuce12

Member
The balancing team has certainly walked themselves into a corner with Zangief.

Give him Green Hand, and you risk him becoming too good. Make the Green hand bad, then it might as well not be in there.

It's clear that his SF5 iteration is focused around good reads, taking risks and utilizing the v-system (V-skill as well as V-Trigger) to it's fullest potential. Zangief has on average some of the highest damage output in the game but he doesn't get to show it with the exception of certain matchups.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
lucebuce12 said:
The balancing team has certainly walked themselves into a corner with Zangief.

Give him Green Hand, and you risk him becoming too good. Make the Green hand bad, then it might as well not be in there.

It's clear that his SF5 iteration is focused around good reads, taking risks and utilizing the v-system (V-skill as well as V-Trigger) to it's fullest potential. Zangief has on average some of the highest damage output in the game but he doesn't get to show it with the exception of certain matchups.
Click to expand...

He's definitely one of those characters you want to be very careful about over-buffing.

They could probably fix him by buffing his walk speed alone, although I know that kind of unsexy change will make Gief players balk. Closing the gap is the big, painful issue for him.
 
M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
They can always tune his V-Skill, it's actually a pretty cool thing they gave him. It's just that the white life makes it way too dangerous.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
E

ElFly

Member
Sheroking said:
He's definitely one of those characters you want to be very careful about over-buffing.

They could probably fix him by buffing his walk speed alone, although I know that kind of unsexy change will make Gief players balk. Closing the gap is the big, painful issue for him.
Click to expand...

him walking fast makes sense, as he is one of the tallest characters, and he is fit as fuck. on top of that he could improve his walk speed just a little and still be among the slower half of the cast

slightly better walk speed and cutting off a couple of frames from the dash would still leave him slow but could still help him
 
E

ElFly

Member
IIRC Mika has command grabs that leave her at either side

she should be using those to change sides; I mean, it should be practical for her to do so
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Can she change sides, or does the rope throw always go behind her now?
Click to expand...
I believe she can, though I'm not entirely sure. If she could, I believe it would have been reported by now.

It would be too big a nerf if she can't irish whip forward, it could kill a lot of her corner pressure.

EDIT: Just saw your edit, of course she can change sides lol.
 
J

JayEH

Junior Member
Looking forward to seeing that half of the gathered info is wrong when the patch notes come out.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
abstract alien said:
Am I alone in thinking that Critical Arts in general recover way too quickly at the moment? Sometimes it feels like there isn't any punishment for completely whiffing one in more cases than I'd like.
Click to expand...

I don't get why they aren't crush counter-able on recovery. At least the ones that are invincible on startup. If you went random super and came up short, you should be crushed.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
JayEH said:
Looking forward to seeing that half of the gathered info is wrong when the patch notes come out.
Click to expand...

That would certainly make the patch note day more fun. A big balancing day for a large cast of characters is always fun.

It's one of the BEST things about Dota 2, getting that heavy and beafy changelog that you spend your morning sifting through while drinking a warm cup of coffee/tea.
LakeEarth said:
I don't get why they aren't crush counter-able on recovery. At least the ones that are invincible on startup. If you went random super and came up short, you should be crushed.
Click to expand...
Because:

(a) You spend ALL your meter. You won't have that option available probably for the remainder of the round.

(b) You still get the chance to decent damage and maybe set up some oki, even without the CC properties. Can you imagine whiffing a CA against a Birdie with a full bar of meter?

(c) There's literally only 1 CA in the game that DOESN'T have invincibility and that's Vega's.
 
G

GodParticle

Member
They should have given gief the vortex spin as a regular move(maybe make it a 360 motion to not be OP) and made his trigger something like an armor mode
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
GodParticle said:
They should have given gief the vortex spin as a regular move and made his trigger something like an armor mode
Click to expand...

I mean he does get armor mode off of v-trigger. He can take as many hits as he wants with v-trigger active excluding CA's.

ElFly said:
but he will need _something_ against improved Dhalsim

I wish the input for the v-skill punch would be easier. maybe like Akuma's. Many times I've released the button only to have nothing come out, and it'd help if you could punch without waiting the requisite time so you could punish more things; Ryu and Akuma seem to get a much better deal out of their parries -tho admittedly Ryu's is harder to land- or maybe just a shorter time until the punch comes out if doing it on command is too much
Click to expand...

Thats why i think 3 hits would be fair because in neutral someone can throw out 2 moves fast enough before you've held the charge long enough to get the punch. With 3 you've definitely had to have hold it long enough. And with Dhalsim, I think Gief has enough tools to beat him. The arc fireball lets Gief with his awesome dash get in no problem and then you absorb limbs. Gotta make good reads and react.
 
C

Crab Milk Mickey

Member
ElFly said:
yeah dunno if I like GH returning. it'd need to be balanced somehow so you cannot SPD easily afterwards so it either has to push people away too much -self defeating- knock down -which brings a different set of problems- or be -1 or -2 on hit -which means getting in but blocking immediately-

but he will need _something_ against improved Dhalsim
Click to expand...
Already chimed in on this before, but for what it's worth:
Crab Milk Mickey said:
Zangief doesn't have nearly that bad of a time as most claim against Dhalsim, it's 'just' a very nuanced match-up that a lot of players don't have the patience or mental fortitude for. The only real change (depending on which are likely to be final) that he has to be mindful of come Season 2, is the flame carpet no longer disappearing upon V-Reversal. Match-up dynamic will probably remain borderline identical outside of that - although lariat might be an ample threat now with it stuffing low hits - until official word comes out concerning the remaining Zangief tweaks.
Click to expand...
 
S

Secret Character

Member
Yeah, I can see that there are significantly more changes than what are listed. I watched the video where FChamp played LPN and there were quite a few differences with 'Sim.

HK has a faster animation all around
j.HP is slower on start (you can see this when he tries to do a lowest possible teleport and HP doesn't come out at all)
Startup on his fireballs seems to be decreased
HP has a faster animation, sources also say it can CC.

I think that's all I saw on that video. We need patch notes asap.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Secret Character said:
Yeah, I can see that there are significantly more changes than what are listed. I watched the video where FChamp played LPN and there were quite a few differences with 'Sim.

HK has a faster animation all around
j.HP is slower on start (you can see this when he tries to do a lowest possible teleport and HP doesn't come out at all)
Startup on his fireballs seems to be decreased
HP has a faster animation, sources also say it can CC.

I think that's all I saw on that video. We need patch notes asap.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYBTkDMq7WU&feature=youtu.be&a

Dhalsim received some nerfs also
Light attacks has more pushback
Cant combo cr.lp >st.lp >st.lk
Air HP 9 frames from 7
St.hp shorter range
 
G

GodParticle

Member
ColonialHawk said:
I mean he does get armor mode off of v-trigger. He can take as many hits as he wants with v-trigger active excluding CA's.
Click to expand...

Hmm....you mean take hits with his v-skill, right? I meant not having to use v-skill. Also would be interesting if he could maybe even be able to link things he can't normally do, such as combo an spd
 
W

Whales

Banned
with the white life nerf, they need to make zangief's V-skill either reduce damage by 50% or make it unaffected by the change

They would also need to tweak dhalsim's V-Trigger, it will be broken as fuck
 
S

SneakersSO

Member
LincolnTunnel said:
Man, I know that everyone who was reporting changes from PSX probably knows what they're talking about, but how exactly do people figure out single frame changes to the frame data of moves just by eyeballing them, especially in an environment as chaotic as a trade show?
Click to expand...

To be fair, LPN is probably one of the better voices to listen to this stuff. He's a lab monster, through & through. He probably has one of the finer eyes for this stuff from the pros that i've seen ever.
 
F

FinKL

Member
Whales said:
with the white life nerf, they need to make zangief's V-skill either reduce damage by 50% or make it unaffected by the change

They would also need to tweak dhalsim's V-Trigger, it will be broken as fuck
Click to expand...

That's actually a great idea, for Gief. I mean, he wants to get in, why not reduce the dmg a little to bit to help him take more risks. 50% might be too much as he already has the most health
 
C

Crab Milk Mickey

Member
ElFly said:
that's not a bad point but remember that Dhalsim is getting faster punches, so I would not be surprised he could punish Zangief way more than currently
Click to expand...
No word on his long-range having more pushback (unlikely) when they already have little of it, and in all likelihood them being + on block is going to primarily be at max range, which simultaneously has been reduced on his standing HP. So again, the current dynamic between the two probably won't change much.
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
GodParticle said:
Hmm....you mean take hits with his v-skill, right? I meant not having to use v-skill. Also would be interesting if he could maybe even be able to link things he can't normally do, such as combo an spd
Click to expand...

Oh ok I see what you mean. I think armor without using his v-skill would be too good. I do like the idea of getting some more combo aspects from his v-trigger.
 
M

MetalGearSilly

Neo Member
I hate it how people react to nerfs. "No longer tournament viable" "useless" etc etc.

Wait for the changes to happen..and then wait for PROFESSIONAL players to actually adapt to those changes.

So what if Ken is negative after Ex Tatsu...it's still an excellent move to throw out and punish heavy normals/fireballs.

If something is negative, you can only get better at using it.


"Oh Mika lost her mid-screen wall bullshit..she's a goner."

Bullshit. Mika would be a goner if she lost her post-throw setups. She can still carry your ass to the corner with Ex Peach and it's GGs.

She's got one of the best V-triggers with actual unblockables man...and crazy 50/50s.
 
S

Spruchy

Member
If the urien changes are real plus the nerfs to the other matchups, omg i'm licking my lips like I just had the best hot sauce ever.
 
T

Trey

Member
MetalGearSilly said:
So what if Ken is negative after Ex Tatsu...it's still an excellent move to throw out and punish heavy normals/fireballs.

If something is negative, you can only get better at using it.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Ken is bad because his ex tatsu got nerfed.

Understand, though, that ex tatsu is not a move to just "throw out," especially now that it's negative if it doesn't connect below the knees.
 
Paltheos

Paltheos

Member
abstract alien said:
Bison:

- V-Skill can now STORE fireballs on demand, even use it in combos
- Standing Light Kick is 3 frames now.
- V-Trigger Light Scissors are faster.
- Target combo sped up but only links to Standing Light Kick.
- Walk speed has been significantly increased, both forward as well as backward.
Click to expand...

bisonlaugh.gif
 
R

RS4-

Member
Human Trashcan said:
What would they actually need to do to make Gief competitive? This doesn't seem like enough.
Click to expand...

Lol never gonna happen. They don't know what they're doing and people will bitch about gief being strong (which Capcom then fixes) compared to 3f moves and super safe shit.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Trey said:
Ken's EX air tatsu negative on block? RIP chris T
Click to expand...
l3fQjyWfkCKbdQVMI.gif
 
S

Sheroking

Member
RS4- said:
Lol never gonna happen. They don't know what they're doing and people will bitch about gief being strong (which Capcom then fixes) compared to 3f moves and super safe shit.
Click to expand...

Like, nobody has more success at balancing characters in the 2D space with patches than Capcom.

This wouldn't even be the first time in 3 years they've buffed Zangief back into relevancy.
 
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