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Study: bullies have highest self esteem, social status, lowest rates of depression
- Thread starter vityaz
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sakipon
Member
Indeed, I also know of a couple of bullies from my class and their lives didn't end up so great. They were definitely considered the cool kids back then.
This study is about kids, are there any studies with info on how many bullies actually manage to keep their social status and be successful in life after a decade or two?
80% of people just read half the OP and then somtimes posts that come up after they make theirs, ignoring the rest of the thread. It's just how things work unfortunately.
I'm going to guess most of them or that most of them don't care since they, apparently, already have high self-esteen.
Magical Sound Shower
Banned
bullying is simply a form of natural selection
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I don't keep track of people I went to school with but I ran into a guy at a street fair who told me one of the bullies we went to school with (who didn't target either of us) was a meth head.
I never really saw bullying at all as a child. There really weren't bullies at my school or neighborhood. There were certainly cliques and some people were antagonistic with others, but I never saw outright "bullying". Now, that being said, I went to a middle upper-middle private school with a whole lot of very involved parents so maybe that has something to do with it too.
edit:
I also have to wonder how generalizable this is. If this study was done in a shame society or a collectivist culture would you get the same results?
edit:
I also have to wonder how generalizable this is. If this study was done in a shame society or a collectivist culture would you get the same results?
n0razi
Member
Yeah now that I think about it... all the bullies I knew from middle school ended up having good paying sales and manager jobs... lots due to self confidence and not being timid
Lots of nerds ended up getting good entry level tech jobs but never got promoted... their managers preferred to use them at low pay
The guys who are doing the best are the nerds who learned to socialize in college.. they got good jobs and networked to move up
Lots of nerds ended up getting good entry level tech jobs but never got promoted... their managers preferred to use them at low pay
The guys who are doing the best are the nerds who learned to socialize in college.. they got good jobs and networked to move up
DoktorEvil
Banned
The OP is preliminary junk science with a very small sample size at one High School.
I'd rather talk about the bully strawman and how the "bullies" are doing now vs when they ruled in HS/JHS/Elementary.
That's why I never take these things seriously. In order for this to be valid you'd need multiple samples from every corner of the globe.
n00bsauce87
Member
I know what you are pointing out, but if you read further...
You'll see that she admits that one study isn't good enough. If she can replicate the same data over... 100 high schools, then she maybe on to something.
In any case, it's not like she doesn't understand that bullying is a problem. She thinks that there are alternatives to solving that problem. If she can back up her claims with the data, we should listen. It's not like it's a baseless claim.
I love social and behavior sciences.
Edit: I'm seeing a pattern ITT. Most people are focusing on the wrong issue. It's not how the bullies are doing afterwards or if they feel like shit 10 years down the road like some Revenge of the Nerds 3 remake. It's about addressing the issue right then and there in High School. Really who cares about what happens in the future with those people, you have victims now that needs some help. Pondering about the future isn't going to help them now.
Glendemonium
Member
Sounds about right, I had bullies that were well respected by their peers (or packs), and few were what you would call "preppies" that came from reasonably affluent families. Of course they'll act like brats, that's how they're raised. They tend to be far more outspoken and outgoing with their circle of friends.
Probably the hard to accept fact is that with that high self esteem, they forget the people they've spent years putting down to make them feel even more special. Probably oblivious to it, no surprise there. So if confronted, the most they can muster up is a "Get over it!"
Not all of them do well after their golden age of HS, but just enough social structure to keep them afloat much better than most.
Probably the hard to accept fact is that with that high self esteem, they forget the people they've spent years putting down to make them feel even more special. Probably oblivious to it, no surprise there. So if confronted, the most they can muster up is a "Get over it!"
Not all of them do well after their golden age of HS, but just enough social structure to keep them afloat much better than most.
n00bsauce87
Member
I don't understand why a peer-reviewed journal article would risk publishing a joke of a study. Dunno what the real issue is, but I'm gonna side with them. Where are your credentials to refute her study? Outside of her doing one study, what do you have? It's the job of a researcher to challenge what we know and to add more to the discussion of whatever field they are a researcher in. You are more then welcomed to test her hypothesis (that's what it's there) and prove her wrong, but leave emotion out of it.
way more
Member
Well, bullies are more successful at work.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2013/05/20/why-bullies-succeed-at-work-2/
And the National Bureau of Economic Research published a study saying tha popular kids make more money later in life.
Via Slate.com
The Study
Maybe we should stop thinking Bill Gates is the norm for nerds.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2013/05/20/why-bullies-succeed-at-work-2/
And the National Bureau of Economic Research published a study saying tha popular kids make more money later in life.
Via Slate.com
The Study
Maybe we should stop thinking Bill Gates is the norm for nerds.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Omegasquash
Member
Guess I come from a different world, then. Most people that bullied me didn't go too far in life. And those that did go far are just happy with their situation.
Either way, I wish all of them the absolute best, just like every other random person out there. Not worth spending time thinking about, you know?
I speak only from a pre-internet high school experience. I don't know how kids today do it, and personally I'll use every card in my deck to protect my kids and their friends from that type of thing.
Either way, I wish all of them the absolute best, just like every other random person out there. Not worth spending time thinking about, you know?
I speak only from a pre-internet high school experience. I don't know how kids today do it, and personally I'll use every card in my deck to protect my kids and their friends from that type of thing.
Haha the little shit thought he was going to walk fine after. Learned your lesson didn't you.
It makes sense. Most mammals in social groups have dominant animals who run the show. Bullies are our dominant individuals and they often get what they want.
It's a pretty fucked up world we live in. The biggest assholes live the best lives. Look at Donald Trump for example. Huge asshole and he's ridiculously rich and currently having the time of his life running for president
It's a pretty fucked up world we live in. The biggest assholes live the best lives. Look at Donald Trump for example. Huge asshole and he's ridiculously rich and currently having the time of his life running for president
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Nah.
To be honest I don't get any joy in seeing bullies hurt like that dude getting suplexed. Seems like a waste---all it does is get the bullied person in trouble, and possibly just gives the bully future justification to continue bullying.
As a kid, I stood up to bullies (the more physical ones---the types who sort of got on your nerves on a case-by-case basis, but ultimately ended up forgotten by you and society) a few times, and I never felt good when I hit them back. Once I broke this dude's nose on accident, and felt horrible.
The best thing to do is, well, take it I think. Stooping to their level only makes it worse. I may be a failure, but I think I have a solid amount of integrity.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
I imagine Trump as a bully who targeted kids with longer hair because of his buried resentment due to his premature male pattern baldness.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Actually, if it's genetic then it's actually easier to fix in theory. Why mess about with therapy when you can screen people for the gene and separate them from the rest of society. Heck, we could just go the eugenics route, sterilize all bully gene carriers and remove it from the face of the earth.
Or y'know, this entire study could be incredibly dubious at best, using flimsy research to go against the grain of what we understand so far about the nature of bullying in children.
I think that might be the case.
CornBurrito
Member
What is this trying to say?
More Fun To Compute
Member
Just give them twitter they will have no time left to bully people in the real world.
Are all accounts on twitter bots?
Empyrean Heaven
Member
So in short, teach my child to be an asshole. Got it.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
Gotta win that arms race.
King Gilga
Member
Doubt they really remember or care one way or the other.
I mean, why should they?
More Fun To Compute
Member
God I hope so the thought that those people typing that rubbish are all human is enough to drive you insane.
Perhaps high self-esteem doesn't necessarily correlate to professional success in the traditional sense?
Vicetrailia
Banned
Trump isn't even a bully, he's just a loud mouthed ass who isn't afraid to talk. People feel even more empowered to whoop his ass after his remarks, and always lash out at him. That's not even effective bullying.
The top fighting rank in my primary school was literally called, "the school bully" by the other kids and was frequently contested, desirable and fought for.
Schweinehund
Member
That's what I thought as well. Was just a dumb game a lot of people played.
Fortunately I was never bullied and I never witnessed any bullying. My high school's hierarchy was flat as fuck.
Spoken like a true neutral. I prefer chaotic good.
EDIT: I redact my statement. You are a neutral good.
HoodWinked
Member
this is kind of hilarious, i think at some point people said things like 'bullies are insecure, cowards, etc." to console the bullied and that drum was beat so hard and repeatedly that it became what was believed true.
get fuck'd i guess.
get fuck'd i guess.
LegendofLex
Member
The way this study defines "self-esteem" must be very different than the one I've come to understand (having a subjective sense of self-worth that is not dependent on external factors) if it's really true that bullies' bad behavior seems to come from not being given positive attention and steered toward a positive outlet. Wouldn't that suggest that they don't in fact have an innate sense of self-worth, since their behavior is a function of how they're viewed by others?
The actual practical interpretation of the findings seems more to me like bullies are simply hungrier for status and esteem and are therefore more willing to identify with those characteristics and pursue behaviors (even bad behaviors) that seem to elevate them, not that they inherently have it.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
It's a small study, but again the findings aren't really surprising to me.
Of course, there's different types of bullies.. there's the pick one guy out and pick on them relentlessly bullies.. who I think differ in they probably are more broken home and depressed sort... to the more privileged bully who flips people shit they don't feel is on their level.. ie: the whole Jocks v Nerds sorta thing... these types typically from my admittedly anecdotal evidence were happy people who were just pretty much pricks.
I dunno, I've met a lot of happy assholes in life... and a lot of pretty much depressed people who are the most caring and loving.
Of course, there's different types of bullies.. there's the pick one guy out and pick on them relentlessly bullies.. who I think differ in they probably are more broken home and depressed sort... to the more privileged bully who flips people shit they don't feel is on their level.. ie: the whole Jocks v Nerds sorta thing... these types typically from my admittedly anecdotal evidence were happy people who were just pretty much pricks.
I dunno, I've met a lot of happy assholes in life... and a lot of pretty much depressed people who are the most caring and loving.
meltingparappa
Member
If my future child came to me to say they were being bullied, I still literally don't know what advice to give.
Telling the teacher never worked. Escalating by fighting back never worked. 90% chance their parents are pieces of work themselves who either can't discipline their child, or just beat the kid mercilessly and it's where the pattern of violence comes from.
I guess I'll just tell them not to be jealous of their future success.
Telling the teacher never worked. Escalating by fighting back never worked. 90% chance their parents are pieces of work themselves who either can't discipline their child, or just beat the kid mercilessly and it's where the pattern of violence comes from.
I guess I'll just tell them not to be jealous of their future success.
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