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Study: Minorities fare worse in traffic stops

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DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Study: Minorities fare worse in traffic stops

WASHINGTON (AP) — Black, Hispanic and white motorists are equally likely to be pulled over by police, but blacks and Hispanics are much more likely to be searched, handcuffed, arrested and subjected to force or the threat of it, a Justice Department study has found.

The study, by the department's Bureau of Justice Statistics, was completed last April and posted on the agency's Web site after Bush administration officials disagreed over whether a press release should mention the racial disparities.

Traffic stops have become a politically volatile issue as minority groups have complained that many stops and searches are based on race rather than on legitimate suspicions.

The bureau's director, Lawrence A. Greenfeld, appointed by President Bush in 2001, wanted to publicize the racial disparities, but his superiors disagreed, a bureau employee said Wednesday. No release was issued. (Related link: The study)

Greenfeld has told his staff that he is being moved to a new job following the dispute, according to this employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to reporters.

Greenfeld was not immediately available for comment. Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse would not comment on Greenfeld's status.

"When someone in law enforcement who is willing to speak the truth about racial profiling gets demoted for it, that's absolutely chilling," said Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP's Washington bureau. "To manage any problem, we must first measure it."

Roehrkasse said, "There was no effort to suppress any information because the report was released in its entirety on the Web site." He added that 37 of 55 Bureau of Justice Statistics reports issued in 2004 and so far this year were not accompanied by a news release.

Based on interviews of almost 77,000 Americans age 16 or over in 2002, the study drew no conclusions about the reasons for the racial disparities in post-stop treatment.

Casey Perry, chairman of the National Troopers Coalition, which represents state highway patrolmen, said he wasn't surprised about the percentage of motorists who are pulled over. "It's very interesting there was no racial disparity," he said, arguing that some regional studies which found profiling had been skewed by local demographics. More information would be needed to evaluate the post-stop data, he said.

Shelton said the Bureau of Justice Statistics study found less racial disparity in traffic stops than a nationwide NAACP study between 1991-93, but said the figures for racial disparity in arrests and use of force were consistent with his group's findings.

The data showed that black, Hispanic and white motorists were equally likely to be pulled over by police; about 9% of each are stopped. Traffic stops were the most frequent form of police contact with the public; an estimated 16.8 million drivers were stopped in 2002.

The racial disparities showed up after that point:

• Blacks (5.8 percent) and Hispanics (5.2 percent) were much more likely to be arrested than whites (2 percent).

• Hispanics (71.5 percent) were much more likely to be ticketed than blacks (58.4 percent) or whites (56.5 percent).

• Blacks (2.7 percent) and Hispanics (2.4 percent) were far more likely than whites (0.8 percent) to report that police used force or the threat of it. Force was defined as when an officer pushed, grabbed, kicked or hit a driver with a hand or object. Also included were police dog bites, chemical or pepper spray or a firearm pointed at the driver, or the threat of any of these.

• Handcuffs were used on greater percentages of black motorists (6.4 percent) and Hispanics (5.6 percent) than whites (2 percent).

• Black and Hispanic drivers and their vehicles were much more likely to be searched than whites and their vehicles. Black motorists were searched 8.1% of the time; Hispanics, 8.3%; whites, 2.5%. Vehicles driven by blacks were searched 7.1% of the time; by Hispanics, 10.1%; by whites, 2.9%.

The study, first reported by The New York Times, said the interviews did not ask enough questions about circumstances — such as whether drugs were in plain view — or about driver conduct to "answer the question of whether the driver's race, rather than the driver's conduct or other specific circumstances," led to the search.


My initial response is... no shit.... you're kiddin me... really?

My smart ass response is... no shit... that's cause we blacks we done commitin more o da crimes!
 
Zaptruder said:
Indeed, your out of context quote makes you look like a racist fuck better explain yourself before people jump on your back oh too late.
0830734147.jpg

But but... I'm black... or does that make it worse?
:lol
 
That's because we whities are chicken-shits and more submissive to the law, while you noble black and hispanic people are willing to fight the man!
Fight the power!
 
Zaptruder said:
Indeed, your out of context quote makes you look like a racist fuck better explain yourself before people jump on your back oh too late.


Does your uptight responses know no bounds? Please remove the stick out of your ass.

On-topic:
Oh yea, DWB indeed. It's funny to see the complaints about "racial profiling" on airplanes or at security stops .. but it happens everyday in America. It's a fact of life.
 
ToxicAdam said:
It's funny to see the complaints about "racial profiling" on airplanes or at security stops .. but it happens everyday in America. It's a fact of life.

Pretty much, who even cares anymore? Hell that's why I'm getting a white driver when I grow old. We can drive around with as much dope and incenderary devices as we want. No one cares.
 
I hope this study didn't cost them a lot of money because this has been both prevalent and noted for over a decade.
 
Tommie Hu$tle said:
Pretty much, who even cares anymore? Hell that's why I'm getting a white driver when I grow old. We can drive around with as much dope and incenderary devices as we want. No one cares.

That's why Dave Chappelle hangs out with "Chip". ;)
 
Phoenix said:
I hope this study didn't cost them a lot of money because this has been both prevalent and noted for over a decade.


Hell, how long have cars and Black people been together? About 70 or 80 so odd years? Well that's how long it's been prevalent.
 
In fact, why is this shit even done? So they can broadcast it on mid-western news channels and white folk who are "scared of those new neighbors, but aren't racist! Really! They like black people, and have a black friend, you know." start acting even more awkward around people of different races?
Not that you have to ignore these problems to make them go away, I just think feeding this kind of information to the public increases racial friction.
 
My old piano teacher's black husband (mixed marriage) used to tell us DWB (Driving While Black) stories. This definitely shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.
 
RevenantKioku said:
Not that you have to ignore these problems to make them go away, I just think feeding this kind of information to the public increases racial friction.

You mean more than racially motivated traffic stops? Somehow I think what you say doesn't make sense. Reporting the truth doesn't increase racial friction - it just hilights it.
 
That's why my black friends always let me drive.

Funny.. getting pulled over as a white guy with black people in the car?

I've never had the cops treat me nicer.

Strange.
 
Phoenix said:
You mean more than racially motivated traffic stops? Somehow I think what you say doesn't make sense. Reporting the truth doesn't increase racial friction - it just hilights it.

It brings it to a head and stops right there. It doesn't do a goddamned thing except make certain people even more awkward around those of other races. I'm not having an easy time wording this, but it just stems from things I've heard in white only groups of people.
 
RevenantKioku said:
It brings it to a head and stops right there. It doesn't do a goddamned thing except make certain people even more awkward around those of other races. I'm not having an easy time wording this, but it just stems from things I've heard in white only groups of people.

You mean it doesn't make intelligent people realize that the shit is dumb, and that there is a problem? And here I thought pointing out something like this to high-minded people regardless of their color would make them go... damn... that's incredibly f*cked up... and it needs to change...

Instead we should just pretend it doesn't exist?

Since you've heard this in the white only groups of people you know, do you know speak for Caucasians everywhere?
 
DarienA said:
You mean it doesn't make intelligent people realize that the shit is dumb, and that there is a problem? And here I thought pointing out something like this to high-minded people regardless of their color would make them go... damn... that's incredibly f*cked up... and it needs to change...

Instead we should just pretend it doesn't exist?

I'm saying that to MOST PEOPLE it just doesn't do what you're saying it does. I know many people who would say "Of course more minorities get rouged up, they should stop carrying so many drugs/illegal weapons/stop being so minority". And that fucking frightens me.
I just don't see this accomplishing anything. Put the money towards better efforts. Awareness of the problem doesn't do that much it seems, cause a fucking lot of people are aware and look where we're at.
 
I think the problem is two-fold...

Racial tension.. whites fear blacks... so white cops tend to act differently towards blacks.. i've seen it personally.

And blacks acting out.. you can't ignore that this tension doesn't cause SOME blacks to say "fuck the police" and do things that only add to the problem.

I think it takes both "sides" to truly solve this problem.. although the whites have the greater responsibility IMHO.
 
RevenantKioku said:
I'm saying that to MOST PEOPLE it just doesn't do what you're saying it does. I know many people who would say "Of course more minorities get rouged up, they should stop carrying so many drugs/illegal weapons/stop being so minority". And that fucking frightens me.
I just don't see this accomplishing anything. Put the money towards better efforts. Awareness of the problem doesn't do that much it seems, cause a fucking lot of people are aware and look where we're at.

Hey here's an idea... how about awareness AND education?

You seen when someone says the comment you made... then it's time to educate them by going in to stats that show that a majority of minories do NOT do the things they've just listed. The average black family gets up and goes to work each day just like the average white person does.

Lack of education = Ignorance and you don't solve a problem by leaving people ignorant.
 
DarienA said:
Hey here's an idea... how about awareness AND education?

You seen when someone says the comment you made... then it's time to educate them by going in to stats that show that a majority of minories do NOT do the things they've just listed. The average black family gets up and goes to work each day just like the average white person does.

Lack of education = Ignorance and you don't solve a problem by leaving people ignorant.

I'm not arguing against your ideas, I just have little faith in people. If you think showing these people those statistics is gonna change minds of the majority, you're pretty naive too.

I don't have a solution either though, all I know is that it's pretty obvious what's going on now is not working..
 
RevenantKioku said:
I'm not arguing against your ideas, I just have little faith in people. If you think showing these people those statistics is gonna change minds of the majority, you're pretty naive too.

I don't have a solution either though, all I know is that it's pretty obvious what's going on now is not working..

Yes I've survived 35 years of being black and rising up through the corporate ranks because I'm naive.... anyway I don't mean just SHOWING statistics... showing someone something is not education. Education is a two way street that needs dialogue... you need to talk both sides... ok where did you get the impression that most blacks get in trouble... really? Well did you know that it's actually the opposite? How do you feel about that? etc.

You don't teach anyone anything by just showing them something.

EDIT:

Interestingly enough Hispanics should probably have the most cause for concern... compared to the 1999 report, whites and blacks #'s are down... hispanics are .1% up.

99 Report
During the traffic stop, police were more likely to carry out some type of search on a male (9.4%) than a female (2.3%), and more likely on a black (11.0%) or Hispanic (11.3%) than a white (5.4%).

vs.

02 Report
During the traffic stop, police were more likely to carry out some type of search on a male (7.1%) than a female (1.8%), and more likely to carry out some type of search on a black (10.2%) or Hispanic (11.4%) than a white (3.5%).

and:

99 Report
Among those with police contact, blacks (2%) and Hispanics (2%) were more likely than whites (just under 1%) to experience police threat or use of force as a consequence of the contact.

vs.

02 Report
Among those with police contact, blacks (3.5%) and Hispanics (2.5%) were more likely than whites (1.1%) to experience police threat or use of force during the contact.
 
DarienA said:
Yes I've survived 35 years of being black and rising up through the corporate ranks because I'm naive....
I never attacked your corporate rank rising or your survival of being black for 35 years. I just don't think teaching (fine I said showing, bad choice of word, forgive me) is workable with many of people, and I'm attacking the effectiveness of education based on my experience of how poor the education methods are right now, and how ingrained the problem has gotten in some parts of the country. I still don't know the solution.

anyway I don't mean just SHOWING statistics... showing someone something is not education. Education is a two way street that needs dialogue... you need to talk both sides... ok where did you get the impression that most blacks get in trouble... really? Well did you know that it's actually the opposite? How do you feel about that? etc.

You don't teach anyone anything by just showing them something.

Showing was a bad word choice. Still though, who's gonna do this as well as you suggest?

My parents educated me correctly, and I will help educate my own children, but a lot of this is ingrained pretty deep into a person from childhood.
 
Hispanics (71.5 percent) were much more likely to be ticketed than blacks (58.4 percent) or whites (56.5 percent).

Ok lets take these figures. Going with your assumption cops are unfairly ticketing Hispanics more than Whites & Blacks. But if you look beyond just the single variable of race you may come up with something more like lack of driver license and insurance due to high number of Hispanics living in the US without citizenship.


I'm not saying there isn't a problem just that these numbers are worthless without all the variables.
 
Xenon said:
Ok lets take these figures. Going with your assumption cops are unfairly ticketing Hispanics more than Whites & Blacks. But if you look beyond just the single variable of race you may come up with something more like lack of driver license and insurance due to high number of Hispanics living in the US without citizenship.


I'm not saying there isn't a problem just that these numbers are worthless without all the variables.

Actually I didn't make a assumption/conclusion at all... I just noted that the stat was higher now for Hispanics.

I like how you listed all the negative aspects... whereas on the other hand I would simply it could simply be that there is a in general much larger hispanic population in the US now.

I think we can all agree that there are no easy answers.
 
Actually I didn't make a assumption/conclusion at all... I just noted that the stat was higher now for Hispanics.

Well I was carrying over your assumption that these numbers indicate a problem for blacks and applying it to Hispanics.

like how you listed all the negative aspects... whereas on the other hand I would simply it could simply be that there is a in general much larger Hispanic population in the US now.

Considering they are the largest minority that doesn't make any sense. Also this is percentages of each race so it makes even less sense =P
 
Xenon said:
Ok lets take these figures. Going with your assumption cops are unfairly ticketing Hispanics more than Whites & Blacks. But if you look beyond just the single variable of race you may come up with something more like lack of driver license and insurance due to high number of Hispanics living in the US without citizenship.


I'm not saying there isn't a problem just that these numbers are worthless without all the variables.

The full report is linked in the article... it's pretty detailed, you could read it and have most of your answers addressed. I only skimmed certain charts, but it seems that your assumption of illegal citizenship didn't play a big factor in those statistics.
 
Xenon said:
Well I was carrying over your assumption that these numbers indicate a problem for blacks and applying it to Hispanics.
...wait are you saying the numbers DON'T indicate a problem for Blacks?

Considering they are the largest minority that doesn't make any sense. Also this is percentages of each race so it makes even less sense =P
But Hispanics weren't always the largest minority... unless I'm missing something.

EDIT:

levious said:
The full report is linked in the article... it's pretty detailed, you could read it and have most of your answers addressed. I only skimmed certain charts, but it seems that your assumption of illegal citizenship didn't play a big factor in those statistics.

I just finished skimming myself... here are links to the 99 and 02 pages that have the downloadable reports.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cpp99.htm

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cpp02.htm
 
DarienA said:
...wait are you saying the numbers DON'T indicate a problem for Blacks?

Dude, seriously. Get off the fucking trigger button.
 
I'm not sure what I experienced could be considered racial profiling, because I was pulled over in Compton, CA. While headed home from work at UPS, several Sheriff vehicles were parked in the parking lot of a donut shop. As I passed them, one of the Sheriff deputies shined his vehicle spotlight on me. It was strange to me, considering the fact I was driving my mothers 1992 Ford Aerostar XL. I assume what sparked an interest in me, is the fact that I was wearing a Du-Rag. Many gangmembers wear them for the purpose of keeping cornrolls or braids from unraveling and other hairstyles. So they proceeded to exit the parking lot, and manuvered themselves behind me. They flashed their lights, I pulled over, shut the engine off and turned off the headlights. Then I placed my hands on the steering wheel, at this point I'm following the instructions of one of the Sheriff deputies as they approach the vehicle. Still not sure of the reasons for pulling me over, I decided watch them approach through the sideview mirror. The deputy approaching had removed his pistol from its holster. I immediately got nervous, realizing that any slight movement or slip of the hand could be the end of my life. I begin to tell myself to calm down and relax.

The doors on the van were locked, the fear of being shot increased. When unlocking the doors on the van they make a loud knocking sound. There was no way for me to unlock the doors without using the switch. After I unlock the doors, the deputy proceeded to open the door.

The deputy ushered me from the door to the side of the van. Then ordered me to spread my legs and place both of my hands behind my back. This is all being done while he has his pistol out. I'm still nervous as fuck. They asked me if I had sharp objects in my pockets and where I was coming from. All I had was my wallet and work badge. From there they placed me in the back of the patrol car, and had me place my hands on the cage that seperates them from whoever they have in custody.

If I were to take a wild guess, I would say I sat in the back of their patrol car for atleast 20 minutes. The caucasion deputy searched the van, while the hispanic deputy wrote up a ticket. Of all nights to leave for work without my drivers license this happens to be one of those nights. The hispanic deputy explained to me that, because I didn't give them any problems that I would be let go with a warning and remember to have my DL with me at all times.

The ticket I was given said, I had no proof of insurance and the lights were out over the license plate(WTF). The van was insured, my mom had just changed to a new insurance agency.

Oh and this happen nearly 6yrs ago, I remember it as if it happened yesterday.
 
RevenantKioku said:
Dude, seriously. Get off the fucking trigger button.

I'll keep my finger poised right over the button thank you very f*ckingly much.
 
The full report is linked in the article... it's pretty detailed, you could read it and have most of your answers addressed. I only skimmed certain charts, but it seems that your assumption of illegal citizenship didn't play a big factor in those statistics.

The only figure I could find in there was about the reason the cop pulled them over. I doubt any cop would say I didn't think he was a citizen. I also didn't say that was a fact. It was just something that could be a factor.

...wait are you saying the numbers DON'T indicate a problem for Blacks?

I don't think its accurate enough to prove anything. Besides we KNOW this is a problem though we might disagree on degrees.

But Hispanics weren't always the largest minority... unless I'm missing something.

The percentage of ticketed Hispanics is greater than black and white people. It’s a % of a given number of the same race. It doesn't matter how many more there are now.

oh and before I forget....
I like how you listed all the negative aspects...

We are talking about getting a ticket. How the hell could I think of positive things that could influence the numbers? I like how you make something out of nothing =)
 
Xenon said:
The only figure I could find in there was about the reason the cop pulled them over. I doubt any cop would say I didn't think he was a citizen. I also didn't say that was a fact. It was just something that could be a factor.

I'm pretty sure there was a chart listing the result of the pullover... what they were ticketed or arrested for. From what I skimmed over, I figure illegals would have fallen into "other" which was a pretty small percentage.

And I agree that it was a reasonable assumption, that it could have been a factor, but it doesn't seem like it was.
 
DarienA said:
I'll keep my finger poised right over the button thank you very f*ckingly much.

Whatever makes you happy man. I'm done here, I said my point poorly and mostly agree with you anyway, so there's no point remaining.
 
I'm black and I haven't once been ticketed (and I've even drove through our rich neighborhoods--Shaker Heights and Beachwood--in my mom's car! Shock and awe!)

*knocks on wood a la "Kill Bill" Bride style*
 
iirc, they said something about the % of asians was too low. :D I think they should take this info to the insurance agencies and ask for lower rates.
 
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