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[Risette]

On the subject of what influences anime directors, I remember hearing that Satoshi Kon had a list of 100 or so important movies that influenced him and he was quite concerned because practically no-one left at Madhouse had seen them.

There's nothing inherently wrong with being a director whose been primarily influenced by anime but I am a little concerned where it leaves anime, in the longer-term. If you don't have any appreciation for the language of film but you work in it then a number of problems can arise. Sometimes cutscenes in videogames (I am looking at you, Bioware) can have this problem as well because you can tell that they only have a vague idea of how to shoot a scene or position a camera to create an effect in the audience.

I also concern myself when I think about this. More generally, though. Like the next generation of filmmakers being inspired by more modern films rather than the older ones, not just anime.

There's nothing wrong with [good] modern films but they're so full of things learned elsewhere from the past that their potential for learning becomes kind of... diluted I guess. It's a troubling thought.

Ei Aoki, the director of Wandering Son and Fate/Zero, counts David Fincher and Christopher Nolan among his inspirations for tone and setting. He personally enjoys more edgy and gritty live action movies.

This... explains a lot of things.

 

[wonzo]

Are you making fun of my death son?

death by fan is pretty funny when you think about it

Holy shit.

Why is amamagami so deep?

whoa

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Think about what recent anime future anime directors could be influenced by, and tremble.

Clearly they need anime schools the way future cinema directors have film schools. Either that or they need to start sending young anime directors to USC Film School to learn how to direct live-action films first.

 

[cajunator]

Are you making fun of my death son?

I have a fan in my room blowing air right now actually. I think the vents arent working in here.

Holy shit.

Why is amamagami so deep?

Yuri pairings? Rihoko + ???

 

[Risette]

Clearly they need anime schools the way future cinema directors have film schools. Either that or they need to start sending young anime directors to USC Film School to learn how to direct live-action films first.

You can't teach art.

 

[kayos90]

Holy shit.

Why is amamagami so deep?

My mind is fucking blown. Holy shit.

 

[Jex]

"Worst traits Vain, rude, jealous, arrogant"

Shit, this is actually fucking accurate.

No wonder Japan puts so much stock in this stuff.

 

[Branduil]

Ei Aoki, the director of Wandering Son and Fate/Zero, counts David Fincher and Christopher Nolan among his inspirations for tone and setting. He personally enjoys more edgy and gritty live action movies.

So you're saying that at the end of Fate/Zero

Spoiler

Kiritsugu is actually still inside the grail dream, and his true wish was actually being punished for all he had done?

 

[Jex]

Yuri pairings? Rihoko + ???

Just look at the lines.

 

[Branduil]

You can't teach art.

I can never tell when you're being serious.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You can't teach art.

This is factually inaccurate. You can teach art. Almost anybody can be taught how to draw, for instance. Similarly, you can train almost anybody in filmmaking techniques.

Creativity is something you have to be born with. In that sense, you can teach art, but true artists are born not made.

So you're saying that at the end of Fate/Zero

Spoiler

Kiritsugu is actually still inside the grail dream, and his true wish was actually being punished for all he had done?

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER

 

[cajunator]

Just look at the lines.

I know, but its more fun to pair them. Dont deny me my goddamned fun

 

[kayos90]

So you're saying that at the end of Fate/Zero

Spoiler

Kiritsugu is actually still inside the grail dream, and his true wish was actually being punished for all he had done?

Okay. Seriously guys. Stop blowing my mind. I've already died to fandeath. I'd like to keep the remaining 9999 minds I still have in the afterlife. Thanks.

 

[Risette]

This is factually inaccurate. You can teach art. Almost anybody can be taught how to draw, for instance. Similarly, you can train almost anybody in filmmaking techniques.

Creativity is something you have to be born with. In that sense, you can teach art, but true artists are born not made.

You can teach them how to draw, but not how to art.

I can never tell when you're being serious.

Isn't that the fun part?

 

[duckroll]

You can't teach someone how to make art, but you can definitely teach the skills a person would need to execute the sort of art the person has a desire to make. There is benefit in education, especially on foundation levels.

 

[Basileus777]

So you're saying that at the end of Fate/Zero

Spoiler

Kiritsugu is actually still inside the grail dream, and his true wish was actually being punished for all he had done?

Did I just get spoiled for TDKR?

 

[Branduil]

Uh... she doesn't look like a mom.

Duh, she's an anime character. Fake people can't give birth.

Did I just get spoiled for TDKR?

No...?

 

[Jex]

I also concern myself when I think about this. More generally, though. Like the next generation of filmmakers being inspired by more modern films rather than the older ones, not just anime.

There's nothing wrong with [good] modern films but they're so full of things learned elsewhere from the past that their potential for learning becomes kind of... diluted I guess. It's a troubling thought.

I suppose it's comes down to difference between:

looking at what other people have done in your medium and copying what they used to achieve their ends

and

looking at what other people have done, understanding their influences and why they used certain tools to achieve their ends.

 

[Branduil]

You can't teach someone how to make art, but you can definitely teach the skills a person would need to execute the sort of art the person has a desire to make. There is benefit in education, especially on foundation levels.

I don't know how you could make art without some kind of education.

 

[wonzo]

Duh, she's an anime character. Fake people can't give birth.

how 2d girl get pragnent

 

[Risette]

I don't know how you could make art without some kind of education.

Trial and error.

 

[Branduil]

how 2d girl get pragnent

ancientaliensguy.jpg

 

[Branduil]

Trial and error.

How would you know what your errors are, though? Even before that, how would you even know what you're attempting to do?

 

[duckroll]

I don't know how you could make art without some kind of education.

It's definitely possible. It just takes a lot more talent, and in most cases a good dose of opportunity as well. Many of the best artists in history learned their craft through experience, and not education. But education is a good route for those interested in a craft and want to build a stronger foundation early on.

The fact that there is no one correct way to art is what makes it such a magical thing.

 

[Branduil]

It's definitely possible. It just takes a lot more talent, and in most cases a good dose of opportunity as well. Many of the best artists in history learned their craft through experience, and not education. But education is a good route for those interested in a craft and want to build a stronger foundation early on.

The fact that there is no one correct way to art is what makes it such a magical thing.

Self-education is still education though.

 

[Lurky]

All this talk about art makes me sad at how crappy my drawings are.

 

[duckroll]

Self-education is still education though.

This discussion started with film schools as the subject, so no, learning through work experience would not count as education in the context we're discussing.

 

[Branduil]

All this talk about art makes me sad at how crappy my drawings are.

.

This discussion started with film schools as the subject, so no, learning through work experience would not count as education in the context we're discussing.

Yes, but it morphed into a more general discussion of art education.

 

[cajunator]

All this talk about art makes me sad at how crappy my drawings are.

I just finished a drawing and its the first time I have drawn since last year. Its pretty hard getting back into the hobby but I guess it looks alright all things considered.

 

[Risette]

How would you know what your errors are, though? Even before that, how would you even know what you're attempting to do?

You don't. Just hope for the best.

I mean, how do you think people made movies before it was a truly established artform? Not that something like that in particular can be repeated (nor should it), but really all you need is a basic grasp of how to make your tools work (turning on camera, turning on lights, etc), know the foundation of the art, then you can do what you want to do. Just hope you don't break something.

Also yeah this is self-education and not relevant to what we were talking about earlier. Maybe I should have said it differently: people can only teach themselves art.

 

[sonicmj1]

No, if I were mean I would link this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005W2BWJ4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Hey, I have an Urobuchi Gen-loving friend who's in the middle of watching Requiem! Let's see how he's doing.

sonicmj1: how's requiem going
friend: fuck everything

... Oh dear.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Hey, I have an Urobuchi Gen-loving friend who's in the middle of watching Requiem! Let's see how he's doing.



... Oh dear.

Woah woah woah. That's actually pretty promising. Maybe I dropped it too soon. What episode is he on?

 

[Soma]

Hey, I have an Urobuchi Gen-loving friend who's in the middle of watching Requiem! Let's see how he's doing.



... Oh dear.

Sounds like Urobuchi alright!

 

[Risette]

Sounds like Urobuchi alright!

Sounds like Bee Train to me.

 

[Branduil]

You don't. Just hope for the best.

I mean, how do you think people made movies before it was a truly established artform? Not that something like that in particular can be repeated (nor should it), but really all you need is a basic grasp of how to make your tools work (turning on camera, turning on lights, etc), know the foundation of the art, then you can do what you want to do. Just hope you don't break something.

Well, obviously the birth of a new medium requires new rules that can only be learned through experimentation; for film I guess the big one would be the power of editing. But even the days of early film they had general rules about art and rules from other mediums that could be used as guidelines.

Also yeah this is self-education and not relevant to what we were talking about earlier. Maybe I should have said it differently: people can only teach themselves art.

I don't think that's strictly true. Obviously not just anyone can become an artist, but it's definitely possible for someone to learn art from someone else.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Maybe I should have said it differently: people can only teach themselves art.

This is still wrong.

 

[BGBW]

Not enough Snoop Dogg. 6/10

I'll make sure to work on my mistakes.

SAO 1 - 3

Well I don't see the hub-bub over this show. First three episodes were pretty standard, but enjoyable. Bro even had a pretty loving waifu for a minute there. So cute too, he really shoulda smashed it.

That is because you missed out on all teh nitpicking. It's one of those shows you have to discuss to enjoy. That's why the last episode was so bad. It was so bog standard I couldn't even be motivated to poke at it with a stick.

omg.... Not even the best girl.

Haruka clone has nothing on the real Haruka. Didn't even provide the best moment in her episode as we all know.

No good girl in that show imo...

Best != good.

That's only for non-subscribers, right?

Nope, for everyone and by everyone I mean Americans.

The UK gets 0p.

 

[Risette]

I don't think that's strictly true. Obviously not just anyone can become an artist, but it's definitely possible for someone to learn art from someone else.

You can learn things from others, sure, but you have to know how to apply them properly yourself. And learning how to apply things properly is more complicated than it sounds.

If you just imitate somebody in full, that's failure.

 

[Branduil]

Who the hell thought this was a good idea???

Sorry they can't hear you over the sound of all the money they're drowning in.

 

[kayos90]

AnoHana 1

So far so good.

 

[sonicmj1]

Woah woah woah. That's actually pretty promising. Maybe I dropped it too soon. What episode is he on?

21, if you must know.

friend: i am very sad
friend: happiness is an unobtainable abstract
sonicmj1: it is as the Buddha said
friend: there is only despair at the end of every soul-searching path
sonicmj1: life is suffering
sonicmj1: desire is the cause of suffering
friend: i have a really bad feeling about how this show will end

 

[Branduil]

You can learn things from others, sure, but you have to know how to apply them properly yourself. And learning how to apply things properly is more complicated than it sounds.

This seems like splitting hairs at this point. It's true that artists have to actually make their own art. It's also true that they don't do this in a vacuum.

If you just imitate somebody in full, that's failure.

So you're saying Oshii is the only true anime artist.

 

[cajunator]

Sounds like Bee Train to me.

Urobuchi is good. Bee Train is good.

 

[Haly]

You can learn things from others, sure, but you have to know how to apply them properly yourself. And learning how to apply things properly is more complicated than it sounds.

If you just imitate somebody in full, that's failure.

Well I wouldn't say failure, exactly, but you wouldn't have my respect or admiration as an artist if you simply copied.

Every artist draws from his/her life experiences, especially with other art. Good artists take what they've learned and use it as a foundation to create their own unique style.

 

[Risette]

This seems like splitting hairs at this point. It's true that artists have to actually make their own art. It's also true that they don't do this in a vacuum.

Of course it's splitting hairs, but that's the nature of these discussions. The finer details, for the finer thinkers.

You're right that they don't do it in a vacuum, and I never felt otherwise. But I feel that the application of all things, learned or self-created, is something that only the artist themselves can handle, from any angle. And it's the application that creates art.

So you're saying Oshii is the only true anime artist.

But I can pinpoint his influences... :<

 

[Branduil]

Bee Train is good.

 

[Jarmel]

Aim for the Top! Gunbuster- Final

CCCCCOOOOOAAAAAAAACCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE

Well I'm rather mixed on this. The visuals are absolutely outstanding and it's really mecha porn at its best. Looking at this makes me realize how far animation has fallen in certain fields and technical/mechanical animation definitely seems to be one of them.

Nowadays this would be in CG and wouldn't even contain a quarter of this detail. It really helps to immerse you in the universe and add a sense of realism to the story. As for the narrative itself, I thought it was acceptable for the most part even if a bit generic. Alien species invades, we get our asses kicked. We come out with last ditch weapon and beat the aliens. No real surprises in any part of the narrative. What I did like was the general tone and overall atmosphere. There is definitely a sense of desperation at times such as when the leaders were meeting on Earth to discuss possibly solutions and they all were quiet and had their hands in their faces. Also seeing all the destroyed ships added to the whole 'space is a graveyard' feeling. While they didn't really depict how dangerous space was in of itself, in that we don't see anyone getting vented, there definitely is an appreciation for scale.

As for the characters themselves, I found this the weakest part of the show really. Noriko spends half her time crying and the other half training. We really don't see progress on her front but are mainly told to accept it at face-value. Noriko gets the main mech not of any accomplishments of her own but pretty much out of a sense of guilt/redemption on the part of Coachie who was playing favorites. Kazumi herself is bland in some of the worst ways possible and doesn't really have her own personality but pretty much exists to be some sort of foil for Noriko. Coachie also is one-dimensional and while awesome at being the badass teacher, he doesn't really have much development or anything noteworthy.

Then we have the final episode:

Ah Gainax, I knew you wouldn't let me down. Apparently going for broke is a literal term that they aspire to over there.

All in all I wouldn't say it's noteworthy in any area except one, how they handled the time dilation. It was a very big deal in the show and I appreciated their attempts to portray this. Many scifi franchises flat out ignore this and I thought the way Gunbuster handled it brought a very good emotional core to the series and it surprised me about how critical it was to the entire series.

 

[Soma]

Spoiler

i think i've only watched like one show by Bee Train

 

[cajunator]

Im not joking. I have a bunch of Bee Train anime. I like the studio.

 

[Branduil]

Im not joking. I have a bunch of Bee Train anime. I like the studio.

You have my sympathies.