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[Dedication Through Light]

Don't crush my hopes dammit !

I hope this season will be the reversal. P4 numbers here we go!!!!

Don't stop ....don't stop believing ... don't stop

Isnt it still possible? I dont ever remember Bakuman having charting numbers, but it got three seasons.

 

[Mandoric]

Isnt it still possible? I dont ever remember Bakuman having charting numbers, but it got three seasons.

823 > 28 other titles > Medaka vol 1 > 41 other titles > 483
vs
Bakuman vol. 1: 1,404

Bakuman's also a lot cheaper to produce, isn't it? And, most importantly,
オリコン2012/07/16付 コミック (集計期間：2012/07/02～07/08)
*1　--　*,331,355　*,331,355　*1　5　バクマン。　20
*9　--　*,112,216　*,112,216　*1　5　めだかボックス　16

 

[cajunator]

Listening to Kalafina right now, going through their discography, and I'm really liking them. It also reminds how unremarkable Kajiura's work on SAO has been.

Their Kara no Kyoukai soundtrack, Seventh Heaven is their best work IMO. Yuki Kajiura at the top of her game.

Short hair is usually better. Not in the case of Watashi though.

Agreed. She just looks better with long hair. But that is not normally the case with animu girls. (losing team or not)

I can only really speak for the UK here, but...

the first thing to bear in mind is that distributors over here tend to work on the basis that a show will sell roughly 1/10th the number of copies over here than it will in the US. Obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule (a far larger percentage of the audience for a show like Clannad will be regular importers in comparison to, say, Naruto), but it's actually kind of impressive given the comparative size of the countries.

Over here in Blighty, we have this thing called the BBFC - mandatory certification for video material for theatrical and home video consumption. Costs vary depending on how you chose to submit your work - for example, you could submit something as a full DVDs worth of episodes in one go, or as individual episodes. In any case, there's a base fee and then a per-minute fee to pay, so submitting individual episodes is more expensive, but gives you more flexibility when it comes to additional formats and the like (if you're also doing a BD release, and the disks have different episode counts to the DVD, then you don't want to pay the per-minute submission twice). It also used to be that you had to pay twice for works in two languages (I.e. once for the original Japanese track, then again for the English dub), but I'm not sure what the present situation is with that.

Fiddling around with the BBFC site, let's say that a standard 13 episode set in one language would cost you £3,000.

Now, Sentai Filmworks admitted that, for their sub-only releases, they're looking to sell around 2000-3000 copies, so in UK terms that's 200-300 copies, which means in BBFC terms alone you need to cover an extra £10 a copy in the best case, for something you'd ideally be looking to sell at retail for less than £30.

In additiion to this, you obviously have the costs of producing/mastering the disks for distribution. There's costs involved in producing the disks used by DVD pressing companies even outside of actually producing the content for the DVD, and Sony also charge a licensing fee per BD disk master. I don't know what that fee is, but the UK distributors are always complaining about it. I'd have to imagine that it'd be costing them a couple of grand for the average two disk release, though, if not more, on a medium that's still selling less than DVD over here.

I mentioned last week that Kaze tends to master their disks for the whole of Europe centrally in
France, which does at least mitigate a lot of the overhead in producing disks for the UK (particularly for BD). Manga, for their own titles, actually try to avoid having to produce their own masters as often as possible in order to reduce costs. For DVD releases, they'll often partner with Madman in Aus, split the authoring fees, and use their masters (they can't go to the US since DVDs have to be in PAL format).

In terms of BD, going to the US becomes an option. This is what happened with Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood - they were paying Funimation for access to their BDs. By mastering the disks as multiregion, it meant that Manga didn't even have to pay Sony for the mastering license fees.

Unfortunately, it turns out that nerds are impatient, and when people noticed that the US FMA BDs were multiregion, they decided to order that version rather than wait the extra couple of months that the show was probably sat in the BBFC. When the show was eventually released here, they failed to even cover the minimum order quantities (500 copies?), hence pulled the future BDs. Since Funimation were no longer producing for the UK, they then pulled the Region B coding from their future disks, too.

I'm not 100% on what happened with the Haruhi movie. My understanding is that they literally had the movie release ready to go on BD (possibly co-authored with Madman, which is the part I'm unsure about). Unfortunately, I gather there was a problem with the master, in that it didn't work properly with some players (it may have specifically been the PS3, which remains their largest target platform for BD releases). Faced with having to pay to have the disk remaster from scratch and pay those Sony fees again, they cut their losses against what was going to end up being an unprofitable situation.

So, yeah, modern video formats really aren't friendly for releasing niche media with globally fragmented distribution. Obviously it's not anywhere near as bad I'd you're a big multinational movie distributor who can master their BDs once for a global release. I'm pretty sure the only reason we're getting Madoka on BD here is because Manga can just use the Aniplex US masters without having to repay the mastering fees (hence why the UK release is a three rather than two disk release).

Since someone mentioned One Piece, I gather the UK rights aren't even on the table at the moment. Dragonball Z took a long, long time to sort out (it's only now getting it's first ever UK home release, if you can believe it!), and Toei are waiting to see how that works out before committing to releasing their other big show.

and now it's the end of my lunch break, so I better stop typing. Apologies if any of this is garbled - I'm not in the habit of typing at-length on the iPad...

That was an informative post. Thank you for taking the time to make it. I appreciate the clarification on UK market. It does sound like a complete clusterfuck.

 

[Canis lupus]

I missed his post, thanks for clarifying that out DigiKerot. All that difficulty to get anime on bluray is tiring. I wonder if PS3 cfw sorted out region free bluray compatibility? If so, that would be awesome.

 

[Jarmel]

Hyouka most definitely has a higher budget then Fumoffu. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if KyoAni's business expenses have greatly increased since early/mid 00's.

Pretty much. I can't imagine KyoAni is happy with the sales they have right now. It's not a complete bomb but almost certainly underwhelming for them.

 

[duckroll]

Pretty much. I can't imagine KyoAni is happy with the sales they have right now. It's not a complete bomb but almost certainly underwhelming for them.

Considering the content? They should be pretty happy or they had bad market expectations!

 

[BluWacky]

823 > 28 other titles > Medaka vol 1 > 41 other titles > 483
vs
Bakuman vol. 1: 1,404

Bakuman's also a lot cheaper to produce, isn't it? And, most importantly,
オリコン2012/07/16付 コミック (集計期間：2012/07/02～07/08)
*1　--　*,331,355　*,331,355　*1　5　バクマン。　20
*9　--　*,112,216　*,112,216　*1　5　めだかボックス　16

Another factor to bear in mind with Bakuman is that it's presumably at least partly paid for by the NHK license fee, so whether or not the show sells on disc isn't as big a deal.

 

[Mandoric]

I missed his post, thanks for clarifying that out DigiKerot. All that difficulty to get anime on bluray is tiring. I wonder if PS3 cfw sorted out region free bluray compatibility? If so, that would be awesome.

Isn't the only issue with region-free discs on official FW that NTSC units won't play PAL content?

 

[duckroll]

Looking back at Accel World episode credits, I'm surprised at how outsourced this show is. At the same time, I'm also surprised that basically all the actual Sunrise episodes are all the episodes "worth watching" as well. I guess all the worthwhile action animators and directors are working on the important action episodes at Sunrise, while they outsource -everything- else, literally.

Sunrise episodes - 1-2, 5, 8, 11-12, 15, 17, 19
Asahi Production episodes - 3-4, 6, 9, 10, 13-14, 18, 20-21
Artland episodes - 7, 16

As an update to this, the official Accel World site has updated with ep22 credits. It's directed by Yasuhiro Shimoji and Masaki Hyuga is the animation director, which means it's another Artland episode. This pretty much confirms that Sunrise will be saving their best staff for the last two episodes. On a positive note, Hiroshi Ikehata is storyboarding ep22, so some of the action should be a little interesting at least... maybe.

 

[Novid]

"Looking to" is optimistic, BTW; that's an ideal and not an average.

AACS and ROM Mark fee costs are, all together, around $1000-$1500 per title over DVD. It's not huge, it's not make-or-break for most purposes, but when you're barely selling triple digits, you do fall into a grey zone of too big to burn DVD-Rs and too small to cough up the fee.
Not sure why they're specifically pointing at Sony when they have the option to go with Philips too.

Because their a bunch of jokers thats why.

 

[Novid]

To add to Kerot's post - those masters cost alot because the actual master machine is 45,000 bucks (for the tape version) and 10 times that (between putting it in professional disc, to having a dedicaded server like other companies do) The problem is that some companies arnt allowed to keep the master - they are lost in legal limbo or given back to company. It becomes just as diffcult when doing the native remastering - because then you might be doing a tape to disk conversion, which tends to have judder and jaggy issues. Server to disc and Disc to disc is preferable, but files degrade from server to disc, and for discs, you have to have 5 mini masters. It isnt easy.

 

[DiGiKerot]

"Looking to" is optimistic, BTW; that's an ideal and not an average.

AACS and ROM Mark fee costs are, all together, around $1000-$1500 per title over DVD. It's not huge, it's not make-or-break for most purposes, but when you're barely selling triple digits, you do fall into a grey zone of too big to burn DVD-Rs and too small to cough up the fee.
Not sure why they're specifically pointing at Sony when they have the option to go with Philips too.

The specifically Sony thing may well be me misremembering and assigning specific complaints incorrectly. From what you say and a cursory browse around the interwebs, it sounds like it's probably the AACS and BD-ROM Mark fees they're complaining about, as opposed to the fees Sony specifically level.

Ahh, misread--I thought that was their excuse for BD in general (everything goes to one or another consortium except ROM Mark which has multiple independent licensors), not Aniplex wanting more money for FMA.

Media licensing costs are the main thing which the UK licensor's complain about when it comes to possibly making a profit on BD. The costs are simply out-of-line with what they can realistically expect to sell, and coupled with higher minimum disk orders (I think it's about 500 copies), it doesn't really give them much room to experiment with pricing.

That's not so much what the issue with FMA:B was, though - again, that was already mastered in the US rather than the UK. The case there was simply that they barely broke even (if that) with the first disk, meaning that with the natural drop of sales between volumes would make it unprofitable in the long run. Most likely importation problems, unfortunately - the UK market is wholly reliant on the US market for materials (mostly dubs), so it's always the case that a show is going to be out in the US a month or two or three before the UK, and probably cheaper due to economies of scale.

 

[cajunator]

The specifically Sony thing may well be me misremembering and assigning specific complaints incorrectly. From what you say and a cursory browse around the interwebs, it sounds like it's probably the AACS and BD-ROM Mark fees they're complaining about, as opposed to the fees Sony specifically level.



Media licensing costs are the main thing which the UK licensor's complain about when it comes to possibly making a profit on BD. The costs are simply out-of-line with what they can realistically expect to sell, and coupled with higher minimum disk orders (I think it's about 500 copies), it doesn't really give them much room to experiment with pricing.

That's not so much what the issue with FMA:B was, though - again, that was already mastered in the US rather than the UK. The case there was simply that they barely broke even (if that) with the first disk, meaning that with the natural drop of sales between volumes would make it unprofitable in the long run. Most likely importation problems, unfortunately - the UK market is wholly reliant on the US market for materials (mostly dubs), so it's always the case that a show is going to be out in the US a month or two or three before the UK, and probably cheaper due to economies of scale.

So the only way the UK can reliably get a bluray release is if the US gets it first?

 

[Canis lupus]

Isn't the only issue with region-free discs on official FW that NTSC units won't play PAL content?

Not region free discs. I have 2 PS3s, one in cfw. I'm wondering if I could play ntsc content on it?

 

[Branduil]

Hyouka is an adaptation, so it's not just the disc sales you should think about... there's also the effect it has on the sales of the novels. If Hyouka consistently sells near 10k, and also boosts novel sales, I see no reason it couldn't get a second season, eventually. The problem, as duckroll mentioned, is that there simply isn't enough material for them to create a second season yet.

 

[DiGiKerot]

So the only way the UK can reliably get a bluray release is if the US gets it first?

It's less that the UK can only reliably get a BD release, more that the UK can only get a release period if it hits the US. It is, alas, no longer the 90s, when Manga could rely on notoriety, thousands guaranteed sales to video rental stores and commissions from US licensors to fund their dubbing. Since Manga, by far the largest UK distro, are hugely hesitant to release anything without a dub (the one occasion that they decided to release something sub-only was Blue Exorcist, and they've been totally screwed-over on that), we aren't getting anything here you don't get in the US.

Well, aside from a few odd exceptions. Manga recently released Welcome to the Space Show. Beez were flirting with releasing sub-only releases of things which were either well ahead of the US release, simultaneous or weren't getting a US release at all (Durarara!, SoraKakeGirl, Tatami Galaxy), but being a Bandai subsidiary, they weren't the same was as Bandai Entertainment in the US. Classic shows were a dub already exists are another exception.

For Blu-Ray specifically, they usually try to either partner with Madman in Australia, or whoever is releasing the show in the US, simply as a cost-cutting measure. This isn't always the case - Kaze (who distribute through Manga) have a large enough European base that they can master centrally for several countries in one go.

This is all mostly a problem for TV anime, though - one off releases like movies can normally be relied upon to shift enough copies to cover the BD expenses. Haruhi was, unfortunately, an exception where they ended up with screwed masters.

 

[cajunator]

So why is the French market particularly so much better/bigger? Is that just a quirk that French people are more into anime or does it have some historical cause?

 

[Mandoric]

To add to Kerot's post - those masters cost alot because the actual master machine is 45,000 bucks (for the tape version) and 10 times that (between putting it in professional disc, to having a dedicaded server like other companies do) The problem is that some companies arnt allowed to keep the master - they are lost in legal limbo or given back to company. It becomes just as diffcult when doing the native remastering - because then you might be doing a tape to disk conversion, which tends to have judder and jaggy issues. Server to disc and Disc to disc is preferable, but files degrade from server to disc, and for discs, you have to have 5 mini masters. It isnt easy.

Some of this is true but irrelevant, and some of this is relevant but completely false. None of it it applies correctly to the process as experienced by a modern animu publisher.

So why is the French market particularly so much better/bigger? Is that just a quirk that French people are more into anime or does it have some historical cause?

Goldorak.

 

[DiGiKerot]

So why is the French market particularly so much better/bigger? Is that just a quirk that French people are more into anime or does it have some historical cause?

Aside from France being a bigger country, there's been a longer history of anime on French TV (the same is also true of the rest of Europe). Bear in mind that us here in the UK speak English, so we inevitably get most of our non-native TV from the US. It's easy because we don't need to re-dub it.

Because French TV is in, well, French, they were less dependant on the US for their media - if they're dubbing shows anyway, they may as well go for what's good, or perhaps even cheaper. Infact, that they had to dub regular US TV for local consumption just made it easier for them to import Japanese cartoons - it meant that there were more dubbing studios and way more voice actors available, as it was a way more stable career.

That's what I'm aware of off the top of my head, anyway - I'm pretty sure Jonathan Clements went into this is a fair amount of detail on one of the recent MangaUK podcasts (probably the one before the most recent, since that's around about the right time for JapanExpo to have happened in France).

 

[dakkumauji]

New Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun PV: http://www.tk-anime.info/movie/index.html

Wtf? Battle shounen? Lol. Seems like the PV was specially made too, it has a full set of credits for the people responsible, including animators. Weird.

Damn, looks like they are putting effort into this series, which is awesome. Great manga series deserves a great adaptation.

 

[DiGiKerot]

In less depressing UK-based anime news, tickets for the Glasgow wing of Scotland Loves Anime went on sale today, which means that I've just booked tickets for Blood-C: The Last Dark.

Apparently Naoko Yamada, director of the K-On! movie, is going to be in attendance in Glasgow as well. I'm curious to see who they'll be getting for the Edinburgh guest.

 

[cajunator]

Sword Art Online 05

Oh wow. This mystery was more intriguing than anything Hyouka ever offered.
Then it ends with an expected cliffhanger.

Spoiler

there's a player killer running loose so let's leave the window open and sit a targeted character next to it! Oh no she got killed!

Well I definitely have to see how this arc ends.

 

[kayos90]

Sword Art Online 05

Oh wow. This mystery was more intriguing than anything Hyouka ever offered.
Then it ends with an expected cliffhanger.

Spoiler

there's a player killer running loose so let's leave the window open and sit a targeted character next to it! Oh no she got killed!

Well I definitely have to see how this arc ends.

You might've just angered all of AnimeGAF. It's okay cajun. I'll protect you!

 

[Jex]

The sales for the first season of the Medaka Box anime were so long that to this day we have no idea how much they actually sold. Never ever charted. This was produced as a split-cour series to begin with, so I think Abnormal is going to be all anyone is going to get.

It must be hard to sit down to work on a show that you know completely and utterly failed to sell but that you're going to continue making anyway.

 

[Mandoric]

It must be hard to sit down to work on a show that you know completely and utterly failed to sell but that you're going to continue making anyway.

Not anywhere near as hard as it is to sit down and work on a hit that you loathe.

 

[BluWacky]

Apparently Naoko Yamada, director of the K-On! movie, is going to be in attendance in Glasgow as well. I'm curious to see who they'll be getting for the Edinburgh guest.

Rather awkwardly, the image from the film they're using to advertise this fact infringes on a trademark that the company I work for controls...

 

[Jex]

Aside from France being a bigger country, there's been a longer history of anime on French TV (the same is also true of the rest of Europe). Bear in mind that us here in the UK speak English, so we inevitably get most of our non-native TV from the US. It's easy because we don't need to re-dub it.

Because French TV is in, well, French, they were less dependant on the US for their media - if they're dubbing shows anyway, they may as well go for what's good, or perhaps even cheaper. Infact, that they had to dub regular US TV for local consumption just made it easier for them to import Japanese cartoons - it meant that there were more dubbing studios and way more voice actors available, as it was a way more stable career.

That's what I'm aware of off the top of my head, anyway - I'm pretty sure Jonathan Clements went into this is a fair amount of detail on one of the recent MangaUK podcasts (probably the one before the most recent, since that's around about the right time for JapanExpo to have happened in France).

As far as I'm aware there's also a high level of appreciation of manga in France, in part because of their appreciation of comic books in general. I imagine that may tie into it as well.

 

[survivor]

New Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun PV: http://www.tk-anime.info/movie/index.html

Wtf? Battle shounen? Lol. Seems like the PV was specially made too, it has a full set of credits for the people responsible, including animators. Weird.

Huh, didn't expect to see this from a shoujo series. Was that stuff from the manga and if so what's the context?

 

[dakkumauji]

Huh, didn't expect to see this from a shoujo series. Was that stuff from the manga and if so what's the context?

The first fight is loosely based off the cultural festival they have later on. Well, they wear the same outfits.

But, if the trailer is one continuous event, it might just be all of Haru's imagination.

 

[DiGiKerot]

Rather awkwardly, the image from the film they're using to advertise this fact infringes on a trademark that the company I work for controls...

Whoops! ^^;

Apparently tickets for Edinburgh will be going on sale tomorrow.

 

[Jarmel]

Sword Art Online 9-

SAO is definitely one of Kawahara's earlier works. You can tell by how damn bland the writing is. There's no edge even in high tension scenarios. Am I supposed to be worried about someone dying? Gary Stu is also an atrocious character.

This is a really mediocre show with some above average production-values. It's just a typical fantasy anime with a few MMO aspects.

As much as I hate Accel World, it's leagues better in writing.

 

[Jex]

[Hyouka] - 20

Apparently in Japan it makes more sense to vandalize someone's property than to call for help. This explains everything.

 

[Crash Station]

Didnt think Medaka needed to add any more positions to her council, I guess, that one character at the top is part of her crew? No Shiranui?

I hope the OP sounds as good as Happy Crazy Box.

How do you get that from the art? The guy is clearly a villain.

 

[Jex]

I like how the beam bends around him. Even if we take it as given that he's hard enough to bend steel, it still wouldn't bend like that.

I don't think you understand how hard Kenshiro is.

 

[DiGiKerot]

How do you get that from the art? The guy is clearly a villain.

What, the previously unseen guy at the top-left, as part of the blue column of Medaka's allies? Doesn't look too villainous to me...

 

[Pooya]

Valkyria Chronicles, worth watching?

 

[kayos90]

Valkyria Chronicles, worth watching?

Lol. Um... It's not terrible?

 

[Reknoc]

Didnt think Medaka needed to add any more positions to her council

Ha. Shame the third arc will never happen.

 

[OceanBlue]

Valkyria Chronicles, worth watching?

If you can, play the game instead.

 

[Pooya]

If you can, play the game instead.

I did, 3 times

 

[Crash Station]

What, the previously unseen guy at the top-left, as part of the blue column of Medaka's allies? Doesn't look too villainous to me...

Ah, for some reason I thought he meant the guy in the center.

 

[kayos90]

I did, 3 times

Then don't watch the anime. The ending is aggravating.

 

[Pooya]

Then don't watch the anime. The ending is aggravating.

The game's ending was very very dumb too

Spoiler

why Faldio, why?!!!

I liked the story otherwise, Is the story very different in anime?

 

[kayos90]

For all of you Asuna haters, this should appease you.

The game's ending was very very dumb too

Spoiler

why Faldio, why?!!!

I liked the story otherwise, Is the story very different in anime?

Yeah. They added a new romance and then changed up one specific aspect of the game.

 

[Pooya]

speaking of Asuna, I google'd 'star burst stream' yesterday and accidentally an image of her showed in an awkward position which looked like official promo material. Is the anime taking that kind of route or it's just the promo material that looks kind of erotic ? ...

 

[darkside31337]

[Hyouka] - 20

Apparently in Japan it makes more sense to vandalize someone's property than to call for help. This explains everything.

They even explain it in the episode.

Chitanda is rich as shit. Rich people can afford to pay for broken property. Chitanda couldn't afford other rich people thinking she was in love with a mere peasant

Spoiler

(and doing inappropriate things in a shed)

. It's actually really cruel when you think about it but Oreki doesn't seem to mind all that much which honestly bothered me while watching the episode.

 

[R_thanatos]

So why is the French market particularly so much better/bigger? Is that just a quirk that French people are more into anime or does it have some historical cause?

Aside from France being a bigger country, there's been a longer history of anime on French TV (the same is also true of the rest of Europe). Bear in mind that us here in the UK speak English, so we inevitably get most of our non-native TV from the US. It's easy because we don't need to re-dub it.

Because French TV is in, well, French, they were less dependant on the US for their media - if they're dubbing shows anyway, they may as well go for what's good, or perhaps even cheaper. Infact, that they had to dub regular US TV for local consumption just made it easier for them to import Japanese cartoons - it meant that there were more dubbing studios and way more voice actors available, as it was a way more stable career.

As far as I'm aware there's also a high level of appreciation of manga in France, in part because of their appreciation of comic books in general. I imagine that may tie into it as well.

Pretty much. All good answers.
The market is huge because during the 80-90 everything went in Tv and we were brainwashed loved it .. Can you imagine an entire génération of children watching anime non stop during almost an entire day every sunday ? Not to mention regular doses of animes wednesday and saturday ? That's what made the market since we all grew up afterwards. A whole nation of "connaiseurs".As a child i could plan in advance when to switch channel to keep a regular flow of anime during the entire day ..that was beautifull

There are plenty of anime that went into europe without going into usa first and some french versions of city hunter, hokoto no ken were so into the society , that we had problems with the governement at the time ( ken was too violent even censored ) ..those were good times ..

Anyway in france , we love anime even it was only recently that they began to trully understand our "need" for it..

So cajunator , the real reason the market in france is bigger is because we grew with it and it affected everyone involved ( for the better or worse ). Now you can think the french market as an auto regulated and hungry market that strive for more...at least for 2012 ..because things are changing for the manga market in france and it will affect the anime market in 2013 ...

But my collection of anime blu ray is ... well , pretty big, thanks to that

Valkyria Chronicles, worth watching?

Game is better , anime is watchable if you don't plan to play .. ( all the plot point are correctly used in the anime ) the anime is really good if you haven't played the game. if you did play the game you'll see some faults and some missed opportunities but nothing spécial.

 

[kayos90]

speaking of Asuna, I google'd 'star burst stream' yesterday and accidentally an image of her showed in an awkward position which looked like official promo material. Is the anime taking that kind of route or it's just the promo material that looks kind of erotic ? ...

The latter.

EDIT: Misread. The former.

 

[PoeticProse22]

Yeah. They added a new romance and then changed up one specific aspect of the game.

That was such a terrible addition to the story, and completely unnecessary.

 

[kayos90]

For DTL and the Klein shippers.