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Summer 2014 Anime |OT| this thread has been outsourced to Toei Phils

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Chariot

Member
You make a good point. Unfortunately I can't do proper analysis of what traits audiences who want a strong female lead want. My biggest experiences are with stuff like Alien and the Wool novel series. Maybe Beyond Good and Evil. Do they want a character that can stand on her own? Would FMA count since it's done by a female mangaka and indeed has (at least to me) strong female protagonists such as Hawkeye and Armstrong sister?
Well, there isn't "the" audience. So I just talk about what I think. I think Jade is a good female protagonist. FMA has strong female characters yes, but you shouldn't take that every work by a woman has this automatically. A lot of shoujo is ridicilous in that regard.
The core, the most important thing for a strong female character is, that she is her own person. That she would have a life, hobbys, likes and dislikes even without a male character or something. A person that makes decisions, that has the strengh to think for herself, not a tool for the plot or a dick.

Hmmm, what of Ryuko and Satsuki from Kill la Kill? How would they be quantified?
Satsuki is certainly strong. She made her own little kingdom and loyal followers. She can stand without problems on her own legs.

But Ryuuko? I never thought that she was a very good protagonist. She is constantly being pushed and ordered around by others.
sabagebu has the strongest female lead in recent anime history
I suppose this is a half-joke post, but she is actually a very strong female protagonist.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Well this week marks episode three for many shows and we start with Tokyo Ghoul.

Verdict: One more chance since the investigators interest me.
 

/XX/

Member

Crocodile

Member
How has the Major from Ghost in the Shell not been mentioned yet? Y'all suck.

Anyway, I wish "Strong Female Character" hadn't been degraded so much due to people trying to sell you a product they say has one but they clearly have no idea how to write women. You can't even use the term without getting sneers anymore. Within the context of anime/manga as a whole I don't think they are hard to find but within certain genres, like shonen, they are pretty difficult.

I will add, I don't think attire or how well they work as a role-model really have much influence on how "strong" a character is but I definitely admit there are times when they can go too far in those regards and I say all this as a heterosexual male.
 

fertygo

Member
Revy is poor women Jolyne afterall, if we ever get adaptation of Part 6 of JoJo you guys will see that.. Warner bros pls

The archetype is pretty basic badass female, but without cringe-worthy past like Levy have, and painted as "screw up/female punk" without feeling offensive.

Araki make a hell of female character in her, after his depiction of female before that is rather questionable
 
Renewed excitement! I wasn't aware that Mamoru Yokota confirmed himself at this past Japan Expo that he will be a producer for Blue Uru (or Uru in Blue). This coupled with Ikuto Yamashita showing recently too one of his spectacular mechanical designs as concept art for the project, while talking about meeting with Mr. Takeda & Mr. Yamaga, makes me feel like things are moving again (but the announced pilot film to be shown this year seems a little far-fetched now).
Well, Gothicmade came out so anything is possible.

Edit: Wait, did Gothicmade ever get a home video release? Maybe it was all a hoax after all.
 

Jintor

Member
(To pre-empt a point) People always bring up the Major parading around in a weird skimpy-ass suit under her combat jacket in GiTS (epsecially SAC s1) but I always thought it was interesting how it was never really that sexualised, at least in the show. Barely any-one ever commented on it, the camera never got weirdly pervy that I recall; it was just kind of... there.

let's not talk about the manga tho
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
qs9r6ss.png


The strongest female.
 

Chariot

Member
How has the Major from Ghost in the Shell not been mentioned yet? Y'all suck.
I don't know really. Yes, she is strong and such, but she is also more a shell. She barely has any emotions, aside from two episodes. The Major is badass. But what else?
She has a past, but she does not any hobbys, preferences or political views, she just lives for her job.

What about Fuu from Samurai Champloo?
A tough one. But I call not so strong, since her only purpose is to find the dick that created her.
Seirei no Moribito

Thank me later
Good one, very good example.
 
I wonder how is anime for somebody looking for strong female protagonists? I mean sure there are shows but it seems like a grand majority wouldn't have a strong lead. I mean anime probably has more female protagonists than say western media, but so many of them are there for the sake of male viewers.

Seirei no Moribito

Thank me later

qs9r6ss.png


The strongest female.

Let's not get on a power level debate.
 

fertygo

Member
(To pre-empt a point) People always bring up the Major parading around in a weird skimpy-ass suit under her combat jacket in GiTS (epsecially SAC s1) but I always thought it was interesting how it was never really that sexualised, at least in the show. Barely any-one ever commented on it, the camera never got weirdly pervy that I recall; it was just kind of... there.

let's not talk about the manga tho

yeah not really.
 
How has the Major from Ghost in the Shell not been mentioned yet? Y'all suck.

Anyway, I wish "Strong Female Character" hadn't been degraded so much due to people trying to sell you a product they say has one but they clearly have no idea how to write women. You can't even use the term without getting sneers anymore. Within the context of anime/manga as a whole I don't think they are hard to find but within certain genres, like shonen, they are pretty difficult.

I will add, I don't think attire or how well they work as a role-model really have much influence on how "strong" a character is but I definitely admit there are times when they can go too far in those regards and I say all this as a heterosexual male.
I'm sleep deprived but yeah the Major (in the films anyway) is one of my favorites. Oshii is pretty cool in his depiction of women, at least from what I have seen.
 

BluWacky

Member
An interesting female character does not have to be defined by ass kicking, as the excellent examples from Mamoru Hosoda's films prove. Hana in Wolf Children, for instance, is awesome, and she is awesome precisely because she is a gentle loving mother who will do anything for her kids without being placed into hugely dramatic world-threatening situations. I would argue that Himari Takakura in Penguindrum, despite being helplessly bedridden for much of the series, is an interesting female lead, even set against Ringo and Masako who are more traditionally "active' characters.

Also "being in love with a man" (or another woman) does not mean "rubbish character". Being defined purely by romantic interest makes anyone dull, male or female. When shoujo stories bother to remember that life is about more than relationship wangst, for instance, they usually get this right - the prime example being stories like Honey and Clover which is about college coming-of-age, self-expression, creativity and compromise as well as its love polygons.
 
Terror in Resonance 2

I really like the opening and endings of this series.

Now.
Thermite
doesn't work that way! First I feel they would have needed 7-10 times the amount used to destroy a pillar, and second it would have melted the floor, like the blood in Alien, not destroyed the column from the side.
But don't worry people, I'm practically joking at this point :p, not really complaining. It's just a Hollywood level explanation (or even above Hollywood, which had hacking alien ships with a Mac), so whatever.

Where I can't say "whatever" is in the part where they announce they had 0 deaths and 0 heavy injured, after shown images like these, that seems taken from 9/11


I lol'ed in real life. Are they doing it because they still want to represent the MC as somewhat good guys? I dunno.

We also see how the poor girl not only have problems at school but also at home. Mom is kind of crazy.
And the not-serious guy (9? 12? can't remember) is potentially more a psychopath than the other one that seemed more cold and serious, a bit typical twist.

It's very VERY a genre work, like Jexhius said. That said, I'm less happy with it than him.
And usually, I am not like that type of critic that says the word "genre" like an insult, I find that silly. Genre is just a classification for fictional works, it doesn't say anything about quality. But this seem to be veering to second definition of the word, that represent something really derivative and clichéd of that genre.
In this case, we have the mastermind criminals challenging the security forces with internet videos and enigmas containing clues to their next hit, and the already semi-retired (or maybe exiled to an unimportant department because he botched a case or had problems with a superior) super detective returning back to his old department to stop them and save the day. And that leap of logic, lol. "they mentioned the police in the sentence, the bomb is clearly in a police station!".



It's still watchable, the direction, the character design and the animation are nice and elevates the work slightly, but I doubt it's going to be in my top 5 at the end of the year. Hell I would say not even in my top 10 but the level is so low in anime so who knows!
 
The reason I mention attire is for situations such as a character who could be a good character but wears a battle bikini everywhere while the closest male wears a ful set of armor.
 
How has the Major from Ghost in the Shell not been mentioned yet? Y'all suck.

Anyway, I wish "Strong Female Character" hadn't been degraded so much due to people trying to sell you a product they say has one but they clearly have no idea how to write women. You can't even use the term without getting sneers anymore. Within the context of anime/manga as a whole I don't think they are hard to find but within certain genres, like shonen, they are pretty difficult.

I will add, I don't think attire or how well they work as a role-model really have much influence on how "strong" a character is but I definitely admit there are times when they can go too far in those regards and I say all this as a heterosexual male.

Damn how could I forget one of the greatest.
 
An interesting female character does not have to be defined by ass kicking, as the excellent examples from Mamoru Hosoda's films prove. Hana in Wolf Children, for instance, is awesome, and she is awesome precisely because she is a gentle loving mother who will do anything for her kids without being placed into hugely dramatic world-threatening situations. I would argue that Himari Takakura in Penguindrum, despite being helplessly bedridden for much of the series, is an interesting female lead, even set against Ringo and Masako who are more traditionally "active' characters.

Also "being in love with a man" (or another woman) does not mean "rubbish character". Being defined purely by romantic interest makes anyone dull, male or female. When shoujo stories bother to remember that life is about more than relationship wangst, for instance, they usually get this right - the prime example being stories like Honey and Clover which is about college coming-of-age, self-expression, creativity and compromise as well as its love polygons.

Is Honey and Clover really a great example? It's a story where most of its female characters lack agency and are dependent upon men. The main female character is even childlike in both body and mind, and ends up
in a creepy relationship with a father figure because he can best take care of her.
And the other female characters? A widow broken by the death of her husband and needs to be taken care of by other men. A lovestuck girl who spends most of the series in an unhealthy one-sided relationship. The way women are handled in that series is actually my biggest issue with it.
 

Sakura

Member
I wonder how is anime for somebody looking for strong female protagonists? I mean sure there are shows but it seems like a grand majority wouldn't have a strong lead. I mean anime probably has more female protagonists than say western media, but so many of them are there for the sake of male viewers.

Noriko is pretty good.
 
A Certain Magical Index - 4~6

The conclusion of this arc was really really dumb and I'm not sure how I feel about Index's friends based on how easily the protagonist was able to confirm the reality of her condition.

I mean I guess I can see there being a divide with the magical and "scientific" areas of the world but with how advanced seemingly society as a whole is I have a hard time believing these guys wouldn't be able to access any outside information about the way memory works. Especially since they chased her into a scientific hub of society. A part of me was really willing to accept the contrivance of "too much memory = death" as a reason for needing to wipe it even if that's not the way memory works too. But when the show itself is basically like "No, what? That's fucking stupid" it just totally discredits the competence of Index's frienemies. And seriously what the hell was with that justification for what they were doing, clearly they've been able to catch and restrain Index multiple times in the past so why exactly couldn't they show up a day after a wipe and just explain everything to her afterwards?

Oh and there's still no fucking difference between a dude calling out fire and it being called magic and a random chick on a bridge calling down lightning and it being called "science".

Now there's vampires.
 

Chariot

Member
A Certain Magical Index - 4~6

The conclusion of this arc was really really dumb
This will not the last time you will say that. Index is full of dumb. At least sometime there will awesome dumb as soon as the third season hits. But until then - have fun with your brainmelting dumbbummery. The author has no idea of science or continuuity.
 

Chariot

Member
Certain magical index is as guilty as pleasures go for me. I just really like mc. And his non-power.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Touma is dumb as shit, everything just happens to pan out. His power isn't even his power. He has actually a power great as god himself that someone sealed with a field that absorbs the unnatural. So his current power is just the jail for his actual power. He has a dozen girls wanting his dick and he has no personalilty at all.
He goes to school because society says that he has to go to school and he saves people in danger, because he helps people in danger. He feeds and houses Index because he is a nice guy, bla. But he has no hobbies. Nothing he loves to do. He just exists for the plot.

For reference: I watched all season of Index and Railgun, the movie and read 18 volumes of the Light Novel.
 
This will not the last time you will say that. Index is full of dumb. At least sometime there will awesome dumb as soon as the third season hits. But until then - have fun with your brainmelting dumbbummery. The author has no idea of science or continuuity.
It took a long time for Index to get to a place where I could call it dumb cool.

That'd be about when the Magic Side people become a part of the central plot, really starting around the WWIII plot stuff.
 

Crocodile

Member
I don't know really. Yes, she is strong and such, but she is also more a shell. She barely has any emotions, aside from two episodes. The Major is badass. But what else?
She has a past, but she does not any hobbys, preferences or political views, she just lives for her job.

You say that as if you haven't just described TONS of real life people (small emotional range, few hobbies, career/job focused). Plus she's a leader of an elite military unit, she should be expected to keep calm and collected as often as possible. I don't see it as a flaw.

An interesting female character does not have to be defined by ass kicking, as the excellent examples from Mamoru Hosoda's films prove. Hana in Wolf Children, for instance, is awesome, and she is awesome precisely because she is a gentle loving mother who will do anything for her kids without being placed into hugely dramatic world-threatening situations. I would argue that Himari Takakura in Penguindrum, despite being helplessly bedridden for much of the series, is an interesting female lead, even set against Ringo and Masako who are more traditionally "active' characters.

Also "being in love with a man" (or another woman) does not mean "rubbish character". Being defined purely by romantic interest makes anyone dull, male or female. When shoujo stories bother to remember that life is about more than relationship wangst, for instance, they usually get this right - the prime example being stories like Honey and Clover which is about college coming-of-age, self-expression, creativity and compromise as well as its love polygons.

It's been too long since I've seen Honey & Clover - my memory is too poor to confidently comment on that part of your post. I certainly agree with the sentiment that you don't have to be able to punch out Cthulhu to be a good/"strong" female character.
 
Is Honey and Clover really a great example? It's a story where most of its female characters lack agency and are dependent upon men. The main female character is even childlike in both body and mind, and ends up
in a creepy relationship with a father figure because he can best take care of her.
And the other female characters? A widow broken by the death of her husband and needs to be taken care of by other men. A lovestuck girl who spends most of the series in an unhealthy one-sided relationship. The way women are handled in that series is actually my biggest issue with it.
It's really going to hurt when I revisit it, isn't it?
I suppose they won't get to work on digital disc releases until Mr. Nagano & Co. stop negotiating for more showings on cinemas every other month (https://www.dreampass.jp/e663)!
Wait what? I guess that explains things.
 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Touma is dumb as shit, everything just happens to pan out. His power isn't even his power. He has actually a power great as god himself that someone sealed with a field that absorbs the unnatural. So his current power is just the jail for his actual power. He has a dozen girls wanting his dick and he has no personalilty at all.
He goes to school because society says that he has to go to school and he saves people in danger, because he helps people in danger. He feeds and houses Index because he is a nice guy, bla. But he has no hobbies. Nothing he loves to do. He just exists for the plot.

For reference: I watched all season of Index and Railgun, the movie and read 18 volumes of the Light Novel
.
I love you. Take me now.
 

Sakura

Member
A Certain Magical Index - 4~6

The conclusion of this arc was really really dumb and I'm not sure how I feel about Index's friends based on how easily the protagonist was able to confirm the reality of her condition.

I mean I guess I can see there being a divide with the magical and "scientific" areas of the world but with how advanced seemingly society as a whole is I have a hard time believing these guys wouldn't be able to access any outside information about the way memory works. Especially since they chased her into a scientific hub of society. A part of me was really willing to accept the contrivance of "too much memory = death" as a reason for needing to wipe it even if that's not the way memory works too. But when the show itself is basically like "No, what? That's fucking stupid" it just totally discredits the competence of Index's frienemies. And seriously what the hell was with that justification for what they were doing, clearly they've been able to catch and restrain Index multiple times in the past so why exactly couldn't they show up a day after a wipe and just explain everything to her afterwards?

Index's friends are dumb, what do you expect, they just believe what they are told. Stiyl is only 14 years old. They don't know any better. They probably never even went to school. But the first arc really isn't that great. If you watch/read the rest of Index/Railgun, then go back and watch the first arc again, it really jars with the rest of the series.
The only real important part of the arc is what happens to Touma.

Oh and there's still no fucking difference between a dude calling out fire and it being called magic and a random chick on a bridge calling down lightning and it being called "science".
You're right, there isn't that much of a difference, that's why Touma's imagine breaker, which nullifies supernatural/fantastical things, works on the science side's abilities too.

The series has its good arcs and bad arcs.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Touma is dumb as shit, everything just happens to pan out. His power isn't even his power. He has actually a power great as god himself that someone sealed with a field that absorbs the unnatural. So his current power is just the jail for his actual power. He has a dozen girls wanting his dick and he has no personalilty at all.
He goes to school because society says that he has to go to school and he saves people in danger, because he helps people in danger. He feeds and houses Index because he is a nice guy, bla. But he has no hobbies. Nothing he loves to do. He just exists for the plot.

For reference: I watched all season of Index and Railgun, the movie and read 18 volumes of the Light Novel.
I mean, it sounds like you are describing the protagonist of most series there. Does it matter that his power isn't even his power? Does it matter that he goes to school because society says to (didn't we all?). And he has a hobby, it's punching girls and saving the day.
And at least for Index there are 3 different protagonists so it's not like you have to love Touma.
 
This will not the last time you will say that. Index is full of dumb. At least sometime there will awesome dumb as soon as the third season hits. But until then - have fun with your brainmelting dumbbummery. The author has no idea of science or continuuity.

Well index operate on a set of rules that are written as the show fits
Index is making people using a widely HUGE range of rules that are completly opposite of each other fight and for the viewer thatdoesn't have time to process all of this , it comes off as dumb.
Heck when you read the books , it's still dumb

But it's still fun, several layers of powerlevels stacked on each other, as long as you embrace that it's going to be crazy and crazier with each time an arc finishes, you'll be fine.
There is no need to try to find coherence when half the cast are rules breakers of all sorts
 
So it's like Yu gi oh where they're supposed to want to get me to buy the card game but they keep doing all this sweet rule breaking. Also I can't afford a motorcycle so what's the point?
 

Chariot

Member
It took a long time for Index to get to a place where I could call it dumb cool.

That'd be about when the Magic Side people become a part of the central plot, really starting around the WWIII plot stuff.
Seems about right. The stuff that the catholic churchs does is hillarious (PENS).

You come from the land of ice and snow where the midnight sun and the hot spring blows?

Edit: that was meant for Chariot before edit lol.
I still don't understand what you mean by that :,D

You say that as if you haven't just described TONS of real life people (small emotional range, few hobbies, career/job focused). Plus she's a leader of an elite military unit, she should be expected to keep calm and collected as often as possible. I don't see it as a flaw.
We were talking about female characters, yes? Not about tools that happens to be female (tool in the sense of a tool for the plot, not the insult).
As awesome as GitS is and as much as I enjoyed the Major in action, she isn't much of a character. The flashback to her past was nice, but she barely is any human in the story itself. Her team is more fleshed out and characterized then her.

I love you. Take me now.
Sorry, Saber, Hisa is my only Waifu :<
I mean, it sounds like you are describing the protagonist of most series there. Does it matter that his power isn't even his power? Does it matter that he goes to school because society says to (didn't we all?). And he has a hobby, it's punching girls and saving the day.
And at least for Index there are 3 different protagonists so it's not like you have to love Touma.
nothing what you say excuse anything regarding Touma. He is a bad protagonist. Even if Misaka and Accel are nice to watch, it doesen't change the fact that Touma is nothing but a plot tool without any delopment as a character.
Well index operate on a set of rules that are written as the show fits
Index is making people using a widely HUGE range of rules that are completly opposite of each other fight and for the viewer thatdoesn't have time to process all of this , it comes off as dumb.
Heck when you read the books , it's still dumb

But it's still fun, several layers of powerlevels stacked on each other, as long as you embrace that it's going to be crazy and crazier with each time an arc finishes, you'll be fine.
There is no need to try to find coherence when half the cast are rules breakers of all sorts
Yeah, pretty much. That's why I am even bothering with this show.
But the setting is actually very cool. The Hunter x Hunter guy or the Jojos's guys would've had made a blast out of the concept.
 
Your original post was a long Aaaaaaaaaaaaa. So I read it as the opening scream of The Immigrant Song.

You see it's funny to me because I have a good taste in music but a horrible sense of humor.
 

cajunator

Banned
heh, I knew you guys were pulling my leg.

Anyway, does anyone know of some great anime movies like Summer Wars. Not too serious, funny, just a chill movie.

Redline and Dead Leaves are stupid fun. Also Mindgame is pretty nuts.

I can't really remember the last anime I watched with a strong female protagonist. Little Witch Academia maybe? I thought Akko was super cool.

Kino is my immediate and everlasting choice.

Korbo is as strong a character as her tail is fluffy.

Also Kino, never forget Kino.

You are so right about so many things Zachy.
 
I can't really remember the last anime I watched with a strong female protagonist. Little Witch Academia maybe? I thought Akko was super cool.

Mahouka Koukou? Miyuki is one of the best female protagonists.
Attack on Titan for Mikasa

Id also have, the lead from Mardock Scramble is one of the definitive ones too. Sket Dance's Hime, and the ones in Yumeiro Pâtissière.
 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Touma is dumb as shit, everything just happens to pan out. His power isn't even his power. He has actually a power great as god himself that someone sealed with a field that absorbs the unnatural. So his current power is just the jail for his actual power. He has a dozen girls wanting his dick and he has no personalilty at all.
He goes to school because society says that he has to go to school and he saves people in danger, because he helps people in danger. He feeds and houses Index because he is a nice guy, bla. But he has no hobbies. Nothing he loves to do. He just exists for the plot.

For reference: I watched all season of Index and Railgun, the movie and read 18 volumes of the Light Novel.
I disagree.
Touma just want to enjoy his life , it's just that he can't ignore someone in need
You don't need to give him an hobby, as hypocrite as it is , roaming the street and saving anyone/anything in front of him already fullfill all his time.

As for his power , you have no idea, New testament made some revelations and it's even crazier.

he goes to school, because he need to go to school , since he cares about his parents that allowed him to study. he is a textbook protagonist that uphold justice and guess what people actually will put that contradiction in his face too ( odin if i recall properly )

As for the "no hobbies" part , several characters have the very same problem.
Accelerator ? Sure he was enjoying toying with the sisters but that's not his hobbies
Hanamura ? ..... after 14 volumes i have no idea
Touma ? same thing
Kanzaki ? Still ? Aniese ? ( i could go on all day )

The only ones who have hobbies, side activities that are know are the protagonists from "RAILGUN" because that show has a different focus from the rest.
 

Jintor

Member
Apart from that Mikasa's pretty cool. It's a pity her personality swings so heavily between 'unimpeachible badass' and 'ERENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN'
 
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