Support NeoGAF

[nincompoop]

OK, I've asked you people this several times now and you guys keep going in circles, but why is this one of the few games where 3D is beneficial? Why doesn't it help gauge the distance between you and enemies in Star Fox? Why doesn't it help you platform in Rayman? Why doesn't it help let you know if you're in melee range of enemies in Mercenaries? Doesn't Lego Star Wars have some platforming?

A ton of people say that this is "one of the few" games where 3D actually makes a difference, but it's not hard at all to come up with reasons why almost any other games should be improved. The real difference is basically just that this is better just because it's Mario.

Because the game was designed to features challenges in which it's easier to tell where things are in relation to each other with 3D enabled, while the other games weren't? Oh wait, you're just going to pretend that you can always perfectly judge where things are in relation to each other without 3D and this conversation is going to go around in circles again.

 

[Thoraxes]

OK, I've asked you people this several times now and you guys keep going in circles, but why is this one of the few games where 3D is beneficial? Why doesn't it help gauge the distance between you and enemies in Star Fox? Why doesn't it help you platform in Rayman? Why doesn't it help let you know if you're in melee range of enemies in Mercenaries? Doesn't Lego Star Wars have some platforming?

A ton of people say that this is "one of the few" games where 3D actually makes a difference, but it's not hard at all to come up with reasons why almost any other games should be improved. The real difference is basically just that this is better just because it's Mario.

It's because I say so and that's how I feel because I have the ability to experience life by waking up every day.

 

[Lijik]

The simple answer is this: if you try to go through this gamne with the 3D function off, it becomes very very difficult to get through it. Simple as that.

Except it really doesnt which is where most of dr3upmushroom's argument stems from.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Because the game was designed to features challenges in which it's easier to tell where things are in relation to each other with 3D enabled, while the other games weren't? Oh wait, you're just going to pretend that you can always perfectly judge where things are in relation to each other without 3D and this conversation is going to go around in circles again.

It's possible he's not pretending, because there's nothing - except the obvious gimmicky* examples where they play with perspective in the little cube rooms (and one other instance I can recall) so that an object is actually closer than it would appear in 2D - that hasn't been done before in 3D platformers.

The conversation keeps going around in circles because there are no solid examples of whatever magic level design it is you're talking about. He keeps asking for examples, and everyone else is just like "it is because i say it is", except for Roto who actually supplied an example. Unfortunately it was one that is perfectly playable in 2D mode, as we have all played 3D Mario games for years and years, and that sort of thing - that is, his example - is nothing new.

*And no, I don't mean gimmicky in a bad way. But that's what it is. A gimmick.

He doesn't have an argument because he assumes all games are made alike

He does? I didn't see anything that implied that. Show me where he said that.

Now, Mario 3D Land is designed with this very same concept! Except here, instead of having a camera to manipulate, which you have in past 3D platofrmers, you have a 3D slider to help you understand the depth. So that is the key difference. It was explained very clearly by Nintendo and Iwata. This game was designed so that you use the 3D to understand your area, and not a camera.

Except the camera angle and position changes all the time as you're running through any given level, allowing you to see those things perfectly well without 3D activated.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Huh?

Yes? How does that in any way suggest that all games are made alike?

 

[Togglesworlh]

"trying too hard"

Don't be a dick, okay? I already went through that once in this thread. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm TRYING TOO HARD.

I can't speak for dr3, but the reason I initially asked is because I am genuinely curious as to what the fuck you guys mean when you say 3D Land is the first game to really benefit from 3D. Because I don't even remotely think it's true. I played through a third of the game in 2D mode (most of them in the secret worlds) and had no more trouble on those levels than the levels I played in 3D. Then, to test myself, I replayed a good portion of it in 2D mode again, with Luigi, and still had no more trouble. I eventually put it back in 3D because it looks better, and that is literally the only reason. Yes, the 3D is helpful in the sense that it gives you some actual, real, tangible depth perception, instead of whatever fucked up magic your brain works when staring at a flat image, but there's nothing about the game that screams "I COULD NOT BE DONE WITHOUT 3D!"

Nothing like what you suggest is implied in the statement quoted. You're being absolutely ridiculous.

You don't need to manipulate the camera to benefit from changing angles. Super Mario Galaxy does the same damn thing all the time, and I never had any problems with that game, either.

 

[Sinthetic]

Mario got an award for best Handheld/Mobile game at the VGA's and rightly so.

 

[Togglesworlh]

You're the one name calling and fail to realize the irony in your post. Worry about yuor own attitude before you attempt to lecture me on mine.

Have a nice day!

 

[Lijik]

So you ARE the same poster. Mario Galaxy 2 has no bearing with how this game was designed. If you want to discuss Galaxy 2, go to that thread. They are completely different games that were designed around seperate strengths. Past Mario games and this one are not mutually exclusive.

Joke poster confirmed, lets talk about the award this game won instead folks.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Joke poster confirmed, lets talk about the award this game won instead folks.

I'm for that, but I ain't got much to say other than "Awesome!" It's a good game. :3

 

[Lijik]

I'm for that, but I ain't got much to say other than "Awesome!" It's a good game. :3

Its a really good game

I still wish it did more with the bubble/patchwork aesthetic.

 

[Togglesworlh]

I like how the levels have all kinds of different styles to them (while still being consistently in the style of Mario, of course).

Although, I do still miss the old days of fire world, ice world, giant world, tiny world, etc. It might be better this way for gameplay, just because it mixes the different level design themes all up, but those aesthetic themes were pretty neat. I feel confident in Nintendo's ability to "mix it all up" and still keep a theme going. I dunno.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

there really cannot be enough adjectives to describe this game. it's THAT good

looks and sounds beautiful, with an explosion of colours and armony rarely seen in a handheld game; Mario is animated masterfully as usual, and every other character is no less impressive: from Goombas gliding on their tails to Bowser and his antics; levels mantain the usual perfect intricacy yet can be blazed through in a handful of seconds; if this isn't a testament to superb game design I don't know what is. Game world feels so consistent and appealing, with pipes, ropes, walls, constructions, trees, flagpoles, moving platforms, nooks and crannies that just beg to be explored; all in one single level. Every level is instantly memorable, with fresh solutions, perspectives, new ways to achieve the twenty-six years old goal, an eruption of ideas perhaps slightly less impressive than SMG2 but it's only because the level size is obviously smaller; but what's small on a big screen is perfect on a handheld

little touches like birds flying away at your passage, bushes incinerated by your fireballs, dandelions and their flying seeds can seem unnecessary, but they're here because Nintendo wanted them to be there. SM3DL is here, and it once again reiterates the fact that Nintendo has mastered the platform genre to a level the competition can only dream of achieving, which is, to me, the epitome of videogaming

Right here, right now, as Fatboy Slim once said. Right here, right now, the reason to buy a 3DS

 

[Bernbaum]

And..... finished. Great game - should have been a launch title.

3D was mostly beneficial. As this is the first solid game I've played on the 3DS, I can now confess to minor gripes with the layout of controls. Dpad is hard to access with the left thumb and it's difficult for me to rest my index fingers on the triggers. As such, I did far less long-jumps with Mario as I would have liked to. In my SM64 days, I'd be long-jumping around almost everywhere.

Not sure if I'll have time to go back for

Spoiler

S-world levels :/

 

[Gambit]

And..... finished. Great game - should have been a launch title.

3D was mostly beneficial. As this is the first solid game I've played on the 3DS, I can now confess to minor gripes with the layout of controls. Dpad is hard to access with the left thumb and it's difficult for me to rest my index fingers on the triggers. As such, I did far less long-jumps with Mario as I would have liked to. In my SM64 days, I'd be long-jumping around almost everywhere.

Not sure if I'll have time to go back for

Spoiler

S-world levels :/

If I understand you correctly

Spoiler

and you haven't started the s-world at all

then make the time! It gets better and there's so much more!

 

[zigg]

You know, I think S8-Crown is harder with a Tanooki suit. It totally throws off the rhythm of the level.

 

[kswiston]

Beat the main story today. After the first 4-5 worlds I was convinced this was the easiest Mario game ever, but the difficulty starts to ramp up in World 7-8. I will start some of the extras shortly, but at this time I would say this is the best portable Mario game yet. Definitely a step up from NSMB. I still prefer console Mario though.

EDIT: I almost forgot. As someone who has a hard time seeing 3D (it often appears blurry to me and gives me a headache), I was expecting to hate the 3D in this, but I really liked it. I kept it on the entire time I was playing. I hope other games do 3D this well in the future.

 

[Brazil]

You know, I think S8-Crown is harder with a Tanooki suit. It totally throws off the rhythm of the level.

The suit can get in the way in the first section, but definitely helps during the rest of the stage.

 

[zigg]

The suit can get in the way in the first section, but definitely helps during the rest of the stage.

I guess there are a few places. I'd rather not have it than have it for the bulk of the level though.

 

[Socreges]

My thoughts on the 3D debate:

I do agree that it's beneficial. I've tried turning 3D off multiple times out of curiousity and it's definitely more difficult to measure jumps, particularly when Mario is moving forward with his back to you (as opposed to left-to-right). That's a fact. But it's my own personal experience. If someone else insists that their personal experience is different and their accuracy doesn't suffer at all from the lack of 3D, then I suppose I'll have to believe them.

The novelty in visuals is also quite nice. The game obviously looks a little more plain without the 3D effect.

You know, I think S8-Crown is harder with a Tanooki suit. It totally throws off the rhythm of the level.

You're not using the Tanooki suit properly then, I'd say. You just need to slow your descent on any difficult jumps and make sure you watch your shadow carefully. Then it becomes nearly impossible to make any mistakes if you're already familiar with the level.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Better than NSMB not as good as Galaxy

I will say I'm surprised at how much I liked this game. And after reading spoilers, disappointed in the rewards for '100%'ing everything.

I dunno what it was, but games like Yoshi's Island and SM64 drove me to do the challenges and get all the collectibles.

REALLY needed to be a launch game though...

 

[PKrockin]

Finally, 100%.

+ The game just looks great. Better looking than the NSMBs for sure. I really would have appreciated some AA, though, at least with 3D off.
+ Mario controls so much better than in Galaxy overall. THERE IS NO EIGHT-WAY RUN. YOU CAN RUN IN ANY DIRECTION.
+ 3D surprisingly does seem to help the gameplay here. When I turned 3D off I had trouble judging exactly where everything was at certain points (usually when there weren't any shadows), and I didn't have trouble earlier with 3D on.
+ It wasn't rushed like I was worried it would be.
+ Same great level design we expect from Mario.
+ I love

Spoiler

Shadow Mario levels and the "defeat enemies to gain time" levels.

- The music is not up to par with other 3D Marios. I got sick of the main theme after a while. The remix in that bob-bomb/gear level later in the game was great though.
- There's almost no reason to use anything other than normal jumps.
- Not as easy as NSMB, but still very easy except for a small handful of levels. Hardly any of the Star Coins are hidden or present any sort of platforming challenge, and there's no excuse to not get Golden Flags the first time through the level.
- Going through the normal levels once, then the remade versions once, then all of them again

Spoiler

as another character

feels tedious. Especially fighting the same three bosses over and over.

 

[KennyLinder]

Spoiler

Just opened a Crown level after finishing Worlds 1-8 with M+L and Special 1-8 with M+L. The Crown level is savage, WTF!? When the platforms go tiny and in a row -> lol! How much further does it go than that?


Also, is there a playable Peach with suit? From the postcard it looks like it....

 

[KennyLinder]

I think it does, based on the two warps that are known.

Where are the warps?

 

[PKrockin]

Spoiler

Just opened a Crown level after finishing Worlds 1-8 with M+L and Special 1-8 with M+L. The Crown level is savage, WTF!? When the platforms go tiny and in a row -> lol! How much further does it go than that?

A lot farther. It's a great level, I just wish there were more like it.

 

[nincompoop]

Where are the warps?

1-2 and 4-2

Edit - Since these are the only two warps we even know about so far, and they only take you to the start of the next world, I think it's safe to say that there aren't any massive shortcuts for beating the game, like that guy was asking about.

 

[KennyLinder]

1-2 and 4-2

Edit - Since these are the only two warps we even know about so far, and they only take you to the start of the next world, I think it's safe to say that there aren't any massive shortcuts for beating the game, like that guy was asking about.

Will youtube them. I've done everything now except the Crown stage. Might put it to bed for a while now! 40 hours is good going!

 

[HammerOfThor]

OMG shadow Mario is pissing me off!!!!

Also, I'm just about done with the specials. I havent collected all the coins yet, should I? Is there still stuff to unlock?

 

[Naked Snake]

Is there any incentive to

Spoiler

play with Luigi? I have difficulty controlling him.

 

[emb]

Is there any incentive to

Spoiler

play with Luigi? I have difficulty controlling him.

Only if you want

Spoiler

to play the final level, which requires beating every level with both Mario and Luigi, getting the top of each flag, and getting all the star coins in the levels.

 

[Lonely1]

Only if you want

Spoiler

to play the final level, which requires beating every level with both Mario and Luigi, getting the top of each flag, and getting all the star coins in the levels.

I have done that, but the game will still not show me the level. :/

 

[zigg]

I have done that, but the game will still not show me the level. :/

A couple people in this thread have mentioned this. I was wondering what could be wrong and it occurred to me: did you double-check the right-hand side of W8?

 

[Naked Snake]

Only if you want

Spoiler

to play the final level, which requires beating every level with both Mario and Luigi, getting the top of each flag, and getting all the star coins in the levels.

Fuck

It's on like donkey kong!

 

[JacksUsername]

Finally got around to 100 percent completing the game today

Spoiler

(including the bonus level)

.

Overall, it was a fun experience, but I don't think it reached the heights of the Galaxy games. My biggest disappointment was some of the control layouts. I can not ever remember complaining about controls in a Mario game, and that's why it was such a surprise when I encountered problems. The first issue was with the long jump. I was able to pull it off the majority of the time, but when I was running off a small platform, I never felt completely confident I would pull it off flawlessly. Sometimes I would hit the the R button a second too late and perform a butt stomp, falling to my doom instead of clearing a large gap, and other times it just didn't feel like it had any momentum. Now granted, I admit that I was in error from hitting the button too soon, but it's mostly due to the fact that the buttons are very close together, and I don't find hitting the L & R buttons that comfortable when trying to hold down Y to run and then hitting B a second after holding R.

I also encountered some problems with the circle pad. This happened especially in sections where it was important to keep going completely straight on the X axis. Quite a few times, I thought I was holding the circle pad directly to the right or left, but it must have been off by a small fraction and Mario would jump a bit forward or a bit backward as well, missing the platform and dying. Once again, mostly can be attributed to user error, but the fact that I've never had any problems like that with other Mario platformers really bothered me.

Last knock on the game would be the boss fights. Minus the final boss encounter, the Boom-Boom encounters and most of the Bowser encounters were so repetitive and dull. It comes through especially when replaying the levels a second time and it's a waste to think that there's really only one good boss encounter spread out across all the worlds.

On the plus side, the visuals were fantastic and you can really tell they designed a bunch of the levels around the Tanooki suit. Having the fire flower work in its classic fashion was fantastic, and I loved how the power-ups (minus the spinning head one) carried on to the next stage like the more classic games. The 3D wasn't essential to play the game, but some stages looked fantastic with it on, especially the ones where you would be descending platforms that were way below you. I enjoyed most of the levels in the game, but wish they had a little more structure as far as theme goes. Was also pleasantly surprised when all my item houses started popping up again after playing Mario Kart and having a ton of Mii's in my plaza.

If I had to give it a score, it would probably get a solid 8. The first half feels just like filler, and the control issues plus the lack of boss variety keep it from ascending to Galaxy like levels, but the clever designs in the second half of the game bring the quality and challenge right back, keeping that part of the game true to high quality expected from a Mario game.

 

[mrklaw]

Finally completed all the special worlds, had to pause around halfway through special world 8 as I ran out of lives. So went back and did the first four normal worlds

Spoiler

as luigi

and got 70+ lives and went back. Had to give up getting the big coins and gold flags, and concentrate on just surviving - will go back soon to do those I hope.

Will take a breather and

Spoiler

redo the earlier levels as luigi

I thought that'd be a pain, but I think it'll be refreshing after the frustrations of dying so often on special world 8


and surely I can't be the only person that thinks the

Spoiler

tanooki toads

are the cutest thing ever? When they're

Spoiler

floating down with you in the end credits

.. aww.

 

[mrklaw]

He doesn't have an argument because he assumes all games are made alike which is NOT the case.

Here's the reasoning and justification for the 3D slider on this game

If you've played a game called Echo Chrome on the PS3, you understand that the concept of said game is that angles and perception can be manipulated within a 3D space. To clearly navigate your way through that game and it's 3D space, you have to manipulate the camera to get a fix on the visuals and understand where pieces stand in context to one another. Without manipulating the camera, you have no idea where you are going. Contrast this with Mario 64, game x,y, and z.

Now, Mario 3D Land is designed with this very same concept! Except here, instead of having a camera to manipulate, which you have in past 3D platofrmers, you have a 3D slider to help you understand the depth. So that is the key difference. It was explained very clearly by Nintendo and Iwata. This game was designed so that you use the 3D to understand your area, and not a camera.

but other than the pink puzzle blocks (of which there are only about 4), there aren't any real levels that use the 3D in that way. And even they have an eye you can stand on to show you a plan view.

Most of the levels benefit from 3D visually - massively so in some levels - but I don't think there are any where they are mechanically improved by the use of 3D.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Whoa, I just got one of those P things from a Mystery Box :O
On a file with 0 deaths and five sparkly File Stars.

 

[zigg]

On a file with 0 deaths and five sparkly File Stars.

...zero? Did you quit every time you died?

 

[ghibli99]

Only if you want

Spoiler

to play the final level, which requires beating every level with both Mario and Luigi, getting the top of each flag, and getting all the star coins in the levels.

I don't say this often, but holy shit...

Spoiler

all regular and special levels with both characters, flags, and star coins? Sheesh. Good thing I've been collecting all the star coins from the beginning. I just got Luigi, so I guess I have a ways to go.

 

[Togglesworlh]

I don't say this often, but holy shit...

Spoiler

all regular and special levels with both characters, flags, and star coins? Sheesh. Good thing I've been collecting all the star coins from the beginning. I just got Luigi, so I guess I have a ways to go.

Running through the levels a second time once you've gotten all the star coins is a breeze. Becomes a speed run instead of a collectathon. It's also way more fun than hunting down the star coins.

I would like a Mario game that was structured more like Super Meat Boy. X: Pure platforming. Super Meat Boy does have bandages, but only twenty per world instead of three per level.

 

[Steroyd]

OMG shadow Mario is pissing me off!!!!

Also, I'm just about done with the specials. I havent collected all the coins yet, should I? Is there still stuff to unlock?

He pissed me off to, until I eventually realised (and by "eventually" I mean world 8 eventually), that he only shadows your movements not chasing you outright, if you move slow he moves slow, he only jumps when you jump etc you only have to not stand in one spot or turn back onto the path you just made, helped me a frikken lot compared to rushing myself to death all the time.

 

[ghibli99]

Running through the levels a second time once you've gotten all the star coins is a breeze. Becomes a speed run instead of a collectathon. It's also way more fun than hunting down the star coins.

I would like a Mario game that was structured more like Super Meat Boy. X: Pure platforming. Super Meat Boy does have bandages, but only twenty per world instead of three per level.

Yeah, after thinking about it a little bit more (after the initial shock LOL), I think this will be pretty fun for the most part. Going to go back and get all the flags I missed (funny how I never noticed the icon before), finish the game up with Mario, and then go back through for the second run (similar to the SMG games). I may have to take a break in between, though, based on what I've read about the difficulty of some of the special stages.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

...zero? Did you quit every time you died?

Yes ._.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Whoa, I just got one of those P things from a Mystery Box :O
On a file with 0 deaths and five sparkly File Stars.

Edit: never mind, I thought you meant that you found it in a level.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I've heard that they pop up just for fun on very rare occasions. You didn't lose your shiny stars, right?

 

[Duane Cunningham]

So does the "random item" box that shows up after you die a few times kill your sparkly stars, or is it only P-Wing that does it?

 

[Berordn]

So does the "random item" box that shows up after you die a few times kill your sparkly stars, or is it only P-Wing that does it?

Random item won't do it, but the Invincibility Leaf (5 deaths) and P-Wing (10 deaths) will.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Edit: never mind, I thought you meant that you found it in a level.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I've heard that they pop up just for fun on very rare occasions. You didn't lose your shiny stars, right?

I grabbed it, saved my game and checked my file. My sparklies are intact.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Yes ._.

why

 

[Sinthetic]

I had no idea you could physically blow on the 3ds to remove ink from the screen and to mess about with the Dandelions, good effort.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Random item won't do it, but the Invincibility Leaf (5 deaths) and P-Wing (10 deaths) will.

I tried the invincibility leaf one time, died and completed the level without it. Am I screwed for sparkly stars?

Three stars here.