Super Mario Maker: Not all tools available from the start, unlock over 9 days

RagnarokX said:
But the limitation is global. He couldn't place those elements in the rest of the level.
Click to expand...

Because that's not the entirity of what he put down.

While constraints are both annoying, and logical, the stages we have all seen from this game so far don't have me worried. We've seen so much going on in the stages. Unless you're going to be ridiculous, you likely won't hit limits.
 
RagnarokX said:
In the latest Nintendo Voice Chat Brian Altano mentions that when he was making his level for the challenge he hit a limit while placing lava bubbles. Not only was he not allowed to place any more of that level element, it also greyed out a ton of other elements as well.

lvBNsN1.jpg


He put 1 lava bubble on every column for almost the entire first half of the stage before he hit the limit, so the level probably had around 100 of them when the limit was reached. This isn't a final copy of the game, but it's disconcerting if the limits are this strict. His level was pretty sparse.
Click to expand...

That's standard to every level editor. It's to keep framerates up and the file sizes down.
 
FyreWulff said:
That's standard to every level editor. It's to keep framerates up and the file sizes down.
Click to expand...

Obviously an editor has to have limits and we already knew this one would be no different. The problem is that it doesn't tell you what the limits are. You place a lava bubble and without warning you can't place a ton of other tools. It would be nice if it told you what affect tools had on the limits so you could plan around them. Also, it would make more sense for the limits to be local since moving objects despawn off screen. The limits seem far stricter than I expected. I totally get saying no to having 28 moving objects on screen at once, but we're talking about objects that just move up and down. Surely they can't be so resource intensive that they require a hard limit of 100 per level, especially when they only spawn when on screen. Hopefully it was a local limitation and he just never tried placing them later in the level. It does let him have the options for spinies later in the video, which seems like something that wouldn't be allowed since buzzy beetles were greyed out. He said it wouldn't let him place lava bubbles later in the course, though, which is part of why the second half of the level lacks them.
 
toythatkills said:
It's nine days, which in the context of your entire lifetime is absolutely nothing. It encourages you to experiment with a few tools each day which means you can learn how to get the most out of them instead of just focussing on a few from the entire line-up as you'd do if you had everything at once. It's less overwhelming for new players than the full screen being available at once would be. It encourages you to play every day and see what people are doing.
Click to expand...

.
 
FyreWulff said:
That's standard to every level editor. It's to keep framerates up and the file sizes down.
Click to expand...
Since this game/editor only allows for standard assets that every copy of the game have, i expect the file size to be super small. Basically just a script that tells which assets to load and where to load them. But yeah, its to keep a steady framerate indeed.

EDIT: I forgot that you can apply custom sounds. That would increase the file size. But i expect the levels that only uses pre-made assets to be very small.
 
I'm okay with the limits. In that screenshot you shouldn't need that many jumping fireballs to have that kind of difficulty (failing the jump will just land you in the lava and kill you anyway and the spinners block the most space. The goombas look decorative at most).
 
RagnarokX said:
Obviously an editor has to have limits and we already knew this one would be no different. The problem is that it doesn't tell you what the limits are. You place a lava bubble and without warning you can't place a ton of other tools. It would be nice if it told you what affect tools had on the limits so you could plan around them. Also, it would make more sense for the limits to be local since moving objects despawn off screen. The limits seem far stricter than I expected. I totally get saying no to having 28 moving objects on screen at once, but we're talking about objects that just move up and down. Surely they can't be so resource intensive that they require a hard limit of 100 per level, especially when they only spawn when on screen. Hopefully it was a local limitation and he just never tried placing them later in the level. It does let him have the options for spinies later in the video, which seems like something that wouldn't be allowed since buzzy beetles were greyed out. He said it wouldn't let him place lava bubbles later in the course, though, which is part of why the second half of the level lacks them.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it definitely needs a limit bar or something.

However, I don't think they despawn anything because the entire level has to be ready to load into the live editor at any time. I have a feeling they keep two copies of each level (main, and sub level) in memory.


Also, for stuff like the 100 Mario challenge where your Wii U downloads 100 random levels from the internet for you to try, it makes sense to keep sizes down. A level may seem small but add them up, and you don't want people waiting to download 300MB of data just to see some playtime. There's tradeoffs and downsides and upsides to all these sort of decisions.

In a similar vein the Halo Forge modes have somewhere around a 640 object limit, even on the Xbox One, due to the fact that the Forge map has to be quickly transferred to multiple clients and fit into networking messages, etc.
 
test_account said:
Since this game/editor only allows for standard assets that every copy of the game have, i expect the file size to be super small. Basically just a script that tells which assets to load and where to load them. But yeah, its to keep a steady framerate indeed.

EDIT: I forgot that you can apply custom sounds. That would increase the file size. But i expect the levels that only uses pre-made assets to be very small.
Click to expand...

also I expect there to be restrictions on the custom sounds. I doubt Nintendo wants people uploading levels with curse words or slurs as sound effects lol.
 
RagnarokX said:
Obviously an editor has to have limits and we already knew this one would be no different. The problem is that it doesn't tell you what the limits are. You place a lava bubble and without warning you can't place a ton of other tools. It would be nice if it told you what affect tools had on the limits so you could plan around them. Also, it would make more sense for the limits to be local since moving objects despawn off screen. The limits seem far stricter than I expected. I totally get saying no to having 28 moving objects on screen at once, but we're talking about objects that just move up and down. Surely they can't be so resource intensive that they require a hard limit of 100 per level, especially when they only spawn when on screen. Hopefully it was a local limitation and he just never tried placing them later in the level. It does let him have the options for spinies later in the video, which seems like something that wouldn't be allowed since buzzy beetles were greyed out. He said it wouldn't let him place lava bubbles later in the course, though, which is part of why the second half of the level lacks them.
Click to expand...

Limitations are naturally going to be there, the game should do a better job of communicating those limitations as you are placing things, however.

As for 9 days - not a big deal is it? It's just so they introduce new tools to you slowly. Could they do this through other methods via unlocking inside the game? Sure, but then maybe you never fully explored what these tools can do because you just focused on unlocking more of them.
 
phanphare said:
also I expect there to be restrictions on the custom sounds. I doubt Nintendo wants people uploading levels with curse words or slurs as sound effects lol.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there will most likely be a grief system. Its also possible draw things like dicks with the blocks and coins hehe.
 
How are they going to avoid little traps that get the player stuck with no way to get out?
I realise you need to finish the level to upload it, but you could avoid the parts of the level that are traps and leave them there for players.

Would a trap like this work: a one way platform that you can jump up through and then be enclosed in unbreakable blocks.

Do they have some kind of script that can tell if an area can't be escaped?
 
Filter said:
How are they going to avoid little traps that get the player stuck with no way to get out?
I realise you need to finish the level to upload it, but you could avoid the parts of the level that are traps and leave them there for players.

Would a trap like this work: a one way platform that you can jump up through and then be enclosed in unbreakable blocks.

Do they have some kind of script that can tell if an area can't be escaped?
Click to expand...

Users that have played the level can report it.
 
Conan-san said:
I'm sorta disapointed it's not the PacLand Sprite.

Granted the PacLand sprite is sorta big so maybe that's that excuse.
Click to expand...
It is Pac-Land Pac-Man. It's based on the Japanese version of the game and it's a bit compressed to fit the Small Mario hitbox. I imagine when he gets a Super Mushroom he'll look like he does on Pac-Land.

SIXZzNF.jpg


Japanese on the left, American on the right.
 
FyreWulff said:
Yeah, it definitely needs a limit bar or something.

However, I don't think they despawn anything because the entire level has to be ready to load into the live editor at any time. I have a feeling they keep two copies of each level (main, and sub level) in memory.


Also, for stuff like the 100 Mario challenge where your Wii U downloads 100 random levels from the internet for you to try, it makes sense to keep sizes down. A level may seem small but add them up, and you don't want people waiting to download 300MB of data just to see some playtime. There's tradeoffs and downsides and upsides to all these sort of decisions.

In a similar vein the Halo Forge modes have somewhere around a 640 object limit, even on the Xbox One, due to the fact that the Forge map has to be quickly transferred to multiple clients and fit into networking messages, etc.
Click to expand...

So the 100 levels are random custom made levels from people? I thought they were levels made by Nintendo... so this doesn't have pre-made levels then?
 
Art said:
So the 100 levels are random custom made levels from people? I thought they were levels made by Nintendo... so this doesn't have pre-made levels then?
Click to expand...

There's a small set of pre-made levels, but the point of 100 Mario mode is for you to play through random user-made levels.
 
I don't think it'll work like they want it to but it seems to be so you don't get yourself in too deep and you build a few courses with lower level tools then it lets you have soemthing new the next day and you do stuff with that etc.

It seems an extremely poorly thought out gating system though.
 
Javier said:
It is Pac-Land Pac-Man. It's based on the Japanese version of the game and it's a bit compressed to fit the Small Mario hitbox. I imagine when he gets a Super Mushroom he'll look like he does on Pac-Land.

SIXZzNF.jpg


Japanese on the left, American on the right.
Click to expand...

The mystery mushroom counts as a super mushroom. if you get hit as pac-man, you just change back into regular mario. there is no super version of the character sprites
 
I wish that there was a way to get more Amiibo costumes more quickly. Like, not so quick that it works as an exploit, but maybe there could be a 5% chance that 10 Mario Challenge gets you an Amiibo costume. It could theoretically take longer, but if you're not going for them and don't feel like doing the 100 Mario Challenge, it comes out as a pleasant surprise.
 
A bad solution to an unavoidable problem. I suppose I can give them credit for trying, but charging customers 60 dollars for a product and then stopping them from using it the way they want is poor form.

Levels are going to be largely bad no matter what they do, because most people arent ace Mario level designers. The people with a knack for it will end up making good levels regardless of the way design elements are presented to them.

Ultimately, all this move will accomplish is irritating people.
 
I guess this will be good for community building as people with get new tools together over the first week or so and there will be a new surge of chatter with the addition of each feature.

What I'd like them to release is the entirety of each Mario game that has a tileset, just to prove the editor is fully functional.
 
Hero of Legend said:
Why haven't those with the game or whatever snapped a pic of Sonic yet? :(
Click to expand...

Or Megaman and Samus for that matter.


Anyone know the music tracks we have a choice for? I really hope the NSMB Wii Volcano skull coaster music is in. So awesome.

Honestly music is pretty important for this, as it can also have an effect on how someone flows through / feelings evoked from a level.
 
So with all this costume unlocking chatter, am I to understand that you have to unlock the amiibo costumes before you can place the amiibo, or can you unlock these costumes to place freely without owning the amiibo in question?
 
Is anyone up in arms about the fact that each level has a capped amount of resources? 9 days seems like a non-issue when you consider that certain tiles/types have a limited number per level, and that a big koopa might actually be worth 3 pirana plants.

Not really given creative freedom are we..
 
mitchlol said:
Is anyone up in arms about the fact that each level has a capped amount of resources? 9 days seems like a non-issue when you consider that certain tiles/types have a limited number per level, and that a big koopa might actually be worth 3 pirana plants.

Not really given creative freedom are we..
Click to expand...
Honestly looking at recent vids, tbe limit looks very high unless one is constantly placing enemies. Time will tell.

Lupin the Third said:
So with all this costume unlocking chatter, am I to understand that you have to unlock the amiibo costumes before you can place the amiibo, or can you unlock these costumes to place freely without owning the amiibo in question?
Click to expand...
The latter.
 
mitchlol said:
Is anyone up in arms about the fact that each level has a capped amount of resources? 9 days seems like a non-issue when you consider that certain tiles/types have a limited number per level, and that a big koopa might actually be worth 3 pirana plants.

Not really given creative freedom are we..
Click to expand...

We all expected it would have some practical limitations. These are probably the sort of hardware-limitation-based decisions Nintendo's internal teams have to hammer out when making levels too.
 
Teknoman said:
Or Megaman and Samus for that matter.


Anyone know the music tracks we have a choice for? I really hope the NSMB Wii Volcano skull coaster music is in. So awesome.

Honestly music is pretty important for this, as it can also have an effect on how someone flows through / feelings evoked from a level.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can choose music tracks for this(unless there's recent news I haven't heard of yet), which is why I was disappointed when they revealed what the frog icon really stands for, was expecting it to be music.

And I feel you, music is very important to me as well.
 
mitchlol said:
Is anyone up in arms about the fact that each level has a capped amount of resources? 9 days seems like a non-issue when you consider that certain tiles/types have a limited number per level, and that a big koopa might actually be worth 3 pirana plants.

Not really given creative freedom are we..
Click to expand...

No because that's been pretty much the case for all level creators.

Wario Ware DIY has a double restriction, block number (each new drawing took up a number of blocks) and the amount of items you could have in total.
 
mitchlol said:
Is anyone up in arms about the fact that each level has a capped amount of resources? 9 days seems like a non-issue when you consider that certain tiles/types have a limited number per level, and that a big koopa might actually be worth 3 pirana plants.

Not really given creative freedom are we..
Click to expand...

It's not like those limits are arbitrary. All level editors tend to have them to maintain solid performance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Super Mario 3D All-Stars DELUXE PC Trailer
Trailer Platform Indie 
45
589
kevboard replied
  • Poll
Blast from the past Super Mario 64 vs Super Mario 64 DS
2
53
3K
kremiso replied
Tencent's new AI tool will reduce art production from days to minutes
2
74
1K
Radical_3d replied
Super Mario Galaxy 1+2 has visual upgrades vs 3D All-Stars version (screenshots/video)
2 3 4
197
3K
GriffinCorp replied
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is kind of disappointing
2
79
420
Rran replied
Top Bottom