I remember people being pissed at Capcom for on-disc content locked behind a paywall, (That was understandable.) but now people are pissed because on-disc content is locked behind a time-wall that doesn't require you to pay? No chill at all. I can understand some of you in this thread are not too pleased by it, but jesus. Some think this game isn't even going to last you nine days.
Super Mario Maker: Not all tools available from the start, unlock over 9 days
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why can't I stop making bad comparisons?
hokagespit
Member
i watched the video, the amiibo stuff bothered me so much more.
i wish it wouldnt of ended up just being nsmbs, but oh well.
i wish it wouldnt of ended up just being nsmbs, but oh well.
I don't think that's true in this case at all. if they wanted to extend the life of Super Mario Maker they'd do it over a longer period of time than just 9 days.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You can't possibly believe these are the same thing. Are you trolling?
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Gotta love Nintendo. Great ideas, and then adding pointless limitations on top of them. Limited-use demos? The trickling of content of Splatoon? No, no, this is much worse.
It's like they made the most delicious cake ever, lock you in a room with it, and then put a tiny time lock on it. What's the fucking point?
I hate to be the one to start it, but Iwata would have nev...who am I kidding, he totally would.
It's like they made the most delicious cake ever, lock you in a room with it, and then put a tiny time lock on it. What's the fucking point?
I hate to be the one to start it, but Iwata would have nev...who am I kidding, he totally would.
Off-topic, but I'm eagerly awaiting for people to make Star Fox 1886 jokes when the main campaign is 6 hours long and people forget that Star fox games are always known for short, replayable campaigns
Edit: your latest post is a terrible false equivalence
Wowfunhappy
Member
Depends on how much Nintendo cares though. Look at Animal Crossing. They only actually punish time traveling if you're doing something like investing in turnips that could actually screw up the game's multiplayer economy.
Somewhat, still have to play 5mins per time travel
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Holy Shit, this is not On Disc DLC, is locked content in a level editor. That includes classic stuff like powerups.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
I hope nintendo goes bankrupt in light of this news
This is a legitimate concern. Quickly unlocking the Maker content without time to "get comfortable" under that mindset would be detrimental to the network's selection of levels, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "resetting your clock disables time-based events for three-ish days" thing that the 3DS does is a possibility.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Yup. The fire flower and star are basics mainstays, they should be usable out of the box.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This is dumb but like...I'm not mad?
I dunno, meh
Still going to buy it right away
I dunno, meh
Still going to buy it right away
I feel the same
I can understand for me personally that the system is fine because I will be slowly introducing these unlocked elements into my levels as the days go on and I get better at making levels. Like I mentioned earlier, I feel some of the items could be included earlier (Day 2 stuff in Day 1) but it will be interesting to see how this works out. It is too bad we don't have a control group to compare so we can test level quality and enjoyment but its interesting nonetheless for me. If it becomes a bummer for me, I will be sure to direct my feedback in my Amazon/Metacritic review though.
Well considering the way the industry is going you have fun days going ahead
From what I've seen of games with creation tools, it's usually gated in an idiotic way and/or very boring to use.
This seems to have the idiotic gating but is also very fun to use, we'll see I don't I'll care after day 10 though (if not before that).
I have it at 50 (with a 10 bucks discount that is added at the moment) this is, worth case scenario, 10 bucks less than most other WiiU games and 10 bucks more than Captain Toad.
Ah, well I guess NoA is really the village idiot of the Nintendo village...
Have you played Other M? Samus skills are not always tied to player skills....
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
People here are mostly annoyed of being told "wait 9 days, don't complain about even if is truly useless".
TheSlySoul
Member
I would say it is like Art Academy if you only unlocked a pencil Day 1. You get marker on Day 2.
Sure you can make art with just a pencil, but it won't be that complex art.
sturgboski
Member
Hmm, I guess it worked well with Splatoon...
Maybe that is what Nintendo will learn from that game: arbitrarily lock content away until the big N feels the people are ready for it.
Seems really silly. LBP pretty much says "here you go have fun" and the same goes for pretty much any game with a level editor. Tutorializing is fine, but going "young padawan, you are not yet ready and must wait a set amount of time" seems extreme.
Maybe that is what Nintendo will learn from that game: arbitrarily lock content away until the big N feels the people are ready for it.
Seems really silly. LBP pretty much says "here you go have fun" and the same goes for pretty much any game with a level editor. Tutorializing is fine, but going "young padawan, you are not yet ready and must wait a set amount of time" seems extreme.
toddhunter
Member
Imagine if base Minecraft slowly unlocked tools and materials as you played each day. No, it just started out by dumping you in the middle of nowhere and you had to figure it out from there, creating an incredible culture online out of tutorial and let's play videos. Now Minecraft is the biggest thing out there these days, and we have genius 10-year-old Red Stone engineers.
I'm really tired of Nintendo feeling like they have to treat all their players like idiots.
Sure, put some optional tutorials in there, but if they don't, someone will make a living by making their own and putting them out there on YouTube (well, maybe not with Nintendo's YouTube policies...).
The people who really want to make good levels will seek out the resources to make those good levels. Nintendo locking content away probably isn't going to suddenly make everyone a creative genius.
I'm really tired of Nintendo feeling like they have to treat all their players like idiots.
Sure, put some optional tutorials in there, but if they don't, someone will make a living by making their own and putting them out there on YouTube (well, maybe not with Nintendo's YouTube policies...).
The people who really want to make good levels will seek out the resources to make those good levels. Nintendo locking content away probably isn't going to suddenly make everyone a creative genius.
It just pisses me off that you can't make this:
Slopes...
This is the first logical complain in the thread
Mr Nintendo, you better do some DLC to add slopes... and soon!UncleSporky
Member
Well yeah, you have to, gotta get through those 9 days.
If you buy it later then you won't get those level elements until even later!
I'd be mad if it was stuff they were actually patching into the game over those 9 days, since my reaction would be "wtf why isn't the game gold by now", or holding back game content for retailers..
But it's like, literally a game way of unlocking content. Although I would have done it over like, 5 days instead of 9, and some of the progression choices are weird (why aren't fire flowers in the introductory set) but .. it's unlocking content.
Goldenmoney
Member
Preorder cancelled.
In all seriousness, I can see why they are doing this, but I think they're going about it the wrong way. Just make them unlockable after creating a certain amount of stages.
In all seriousness, I can see why they are doing this, but I think they're going about it the wrong way. Just make them unlockable after creating a certain amount of stages.
Porcile
Member
I'll gladly wait the nine days if it means weeding out the people that just want to diarrhea blocks and items onto a stage and call it a day. The thing is, you just know that on that first day, if all the tools were there, then people would just try to cram in as much stupid fucking shit without any thought whatsoever. Hopefully, over those nine days people, can slowly build up some actual nicely designed levels.
wild wild rice
Member
Eh, my statement wasn't really meant to anything more than slightly silly.
You play games, stuff unlocks. Seems the same with Mario Maker even if it's of a different genre. How have "maker" games in the past handled this? I never got past the tutorial of LBP and haven't played any others.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Well considering the way the industry is going you have fun days going ahead
.
So that justifies Nintendo, specially since its fanbase loved to claim that they were above it?
Also, nice way to evade my point.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
This will weed out nothing.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Then suddenly...day 9 hits....judgement day!
OH GOD WHY IS THERE A SINGLE BLOCK OVER A BOTTOMLESS PIT WITH A SPRING ON IT AND A PIRAHNA PLANT ABOVE IT AND A FLYING GIANT OCTOPUS, A...AND A ROTATING FIRE TRAP! AGGGGGH!
You think that will not happen on the first day? You think that will not happen on Day 10?
The time-based lock is nonsensical, every pro timebased comment I have seen in here doesnt address the issue, IMO.
The only thing I can agree with is that its not a "big" deal. But since we are discussing the implementation in a vacuum, its nonsense
If anything, it will make things worse, because the download section is going to be a complete shit-show of same-y levels because you can do so little on your first day or two playing the game.
I'm not mad. But I do feel like the game should be as magical as possible the first time you try to build a level.
freethoughtbubble
Member
I've been reading this thread with abject fascination. I get why some are frustrated by the idea of being made to wait for content. Some feel patronized. Others simply don't want to wait. But what I can't understand is the people saying that this is arbitrary or serves no purpose.
Of course it serves a purpose: it encourages players to learn to make stages gradually, beginning with the basic building blocks (literally) and upping the complexity in a controlled manner. I consider myself to be an intelligent, independent, well-adjusted adult, and I have no real problem with this approach. I'm not a level-designer by trade, after all. I appreciate the structure. Not everyone has to, but to say this is arbitrary or lacks any sort of redeeming quality is a bit unfair.
The way I see it, this approach seeks to accomplish a couple of things, some of which have been mentioned already:
1. It encourages players to experiment with all of the tools rather than sticking to a relative few. Most of us have likely experienced this phenomenon before: give people a universe of options and many will simply stick to what's safe and familiar.
2. It encourages players to learn the basics of creating a level before descending into Kaizo inspired madness. This could lead to higher quality over all, although this remains to be seen of course.
3. Relatedly, it ensures that there will be a range of different level types and difficulties -- from simple to complex, and from easy to hard. This is a very good thing for new players. It ensures that these players will always have a healthy amount of levels that they can play through and enjoy as they become better at the game, while experienced players will still have all the diabolical levels they can stomach.
I think it's actually a pretty smart way to go about things. The alternatives seem either easily exploitable or contrived. A level requirement will encourage slapdash designs in the rush to unlock content. A system that measures "skill" sounds good on paper, but how do you quantify that exactly? Some have said that it should be based on hours actually played, but that has its own problems. Not everyone has the time to play a game for even an hour a day. For these people unlocking everything could take even longer than 9 days, depending on how the unlocks are structured. Tutorials are boring even in bombastic action games -- what makes people think that they would be more palatable or effective here? A complicated tutorial would be a turn-off for many gamers and reviewers, and a simple one would defeat the purpose entirely.
Of course it serves a purpose: it encourages players to learn to make stages gradually, beginning with the basic building blocks (literally) and upping the complexity in a controlled manner. I consider myself to be an intelligent, independent, well-adjusted adult, and I have no real problem with this approach. I'm not a level-designer by trade, after all. I appreciate the structure. Not everyone has to, but to say this is arbitrary or lacks any sort of redeeming quality is a bit unfair.
The way I see it, this approach seeks to accomplish a couple of things, some of which have been mentioned already:
1. It encourages players to experiment with all of the tools rather than sticking to a relative few. Most of us have likely experienced this phenomenon before: give people a universe of options and many will simply stick to what's safe and familiar.
2. It encourages players to learn the basics of creating a level before descending into Kaizo inspired madness. This could lead to higher quality over all, although this remains to be seen of course.
3. Relatedly, it ensures that there will be a range of different level types and difficulties -- from simple to complex, and from easy to hard. This is a very good thing for new players. It ensures that these players will always have a healthy amount of levels that they can play through and enjoy as they become better at the game, while experienced players will still have all the diabolical levels they can stomach.
I think it's actually a pretty smart way to go about things. The alternatives seem either easily exploitable or contrived. A level requirement will encourage slapdash designs in the rush to unlock content. A system that measures "skill" sounds good on paper, but how do you quantify that exactly? Some have said that it should be based on hours actually played, but that has its own problems. Not everyone has the time to play a game for even an hour a day. For these people unlocking everything could take even longer than 9 days, depending on how the unlocks are structured. Tutorials are boring even in bombastic action games -- what makes people think that they would be more palatable or effective here? A complicated tutorial would be a turn-off for many gamers and reviewers, and a simple one would defeat the purpose entirely.
Well yes this thread has well and truly arrived now.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
All the 1-1 you can eat!
Yeah, those stages would really have lots of thought put into them...
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
We will find out.
TheSlySoul
Member
You need star and 1UP to make W1-1. You can make the SMW Test Level.
They've been running the long angle since Mewtwo in Melee
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
He is being sarcastic, that is his post style.
1-1 had fire flowers. You can't recreate 1-1 upon starting Mario Maker.
Solid job, Nintendo. You've managed to make the first ever level creation suite where people can't make a good recreation of Mario 1 level 1-1 as their first action.
Hey, you could get Fire Flowers in 1-1.
Just like Little Big Planet! so many 1-1's and Greenhill Zones.
This justifies EA, ATVI, Take2 and the others so why not Nintendo?
There's not special.
Nintendo is chasing the hardcore with the WiiU, expect the customers to be treated the same way the competitors' customers are treated.