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[RAWi]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

 

[mattp]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

bingo

 

[Sephzilla]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

Nothing is going to stop this from happening 9 days after launch though

 

[wild wild rice]

Nothing is going to stop this from happening 9 days after launch though

I think it's high time someone put the correct info in the thread title.

Things gradually unlock over the first 9 days of playing 5 minutes per day, regardless of when you buy the game.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think it's high time someone put the correct info in the thread title.

Things gradually unlock over the first 9 days of playing 5 minutes per day, regardless of when you buy the game.

I know that. But after the first 9 days anyone who bought the game day one will be able to make levels with anything they want. So if they want to make dozens of crazy use-everything-ever levels, nothings going to stop them. So that's why I think the "it's to keep simple levels available" suggestion rings a little hallow.

 

[Cbajd5]

Wait, I figued it out.

They're doing it so people can't make levels making fun of the September 11th terrorist attacks on the anniversary/launch day. Or at least any with Bullet Bills.

Unless people get early copies, but I imagine the combination between the two groups will be nonexistent.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

This is assuming people won't make crazy bullshit levels with the items currently available.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Just what we need in the current gaming landscape - more hand holding. I'll put in my 5 idle minutes a day and begin creating when all tools are available.

 

[RAWi]

This is assuming people won't make crazy bullshit levels with the items currently available.

Oh, of course they will do bullshit levels... but at least they will not be hammer bro over a goomba over a bowser over a saw over a bullet bill cannon firing hammer bros over a clown car (or something). It will be lower-bullshit levels.

And I hope (really really hope) that people will be able to grasp more the idea of doing balanced levels. Then, BAM, with more elements more crazyness. 9th day will be crazy as fuck. And, at least we will be able to enjoy some regular levels from time to time (created on the first days)

 

[zigg]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

This is pretty much what I posited in my first reaction (not that I expected you to read it in this 35-page thread, heh) and I think it's a very likely reasoning and hopefully outcome. 👍🏻

 

[Forkball]

Maybe it's not the best solution but it's better than the one you're proposing--building hastily put together levels just to get the unlocks. I don't want to sift through millions of rushed, thoughtless levels. At least their approach may postpone another 30 page thread about that one missing piece that would have made the game so much better.

Spoilers: there will be millions of rushed, thoughtless levels. Nothing can prevent that. It's not like every level is automatically uploaded, you have to do it yourself. Search by ranking or find interesting ones online if you want to avoid that.

If people think it's going to be a level design utopia because of this restriction then they're in for a rude awakening. The support for this decision is almost parody at this point.

 

[ConceptX]

Just what we need in the current gaming landscape - more hand holding. I'll put in my 5 idle minutes a day and begin creating when all tools are available.

This is what I expect a lot of people to do.

Yet a lot of people seem to think people will actually savior those 24 hours and really get to know those limited toolsets set by set, one set at a time.

I know which I think will be the majority.

 

[Neko_No_Naku]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

This is assuming people won't make crazy bullshit levels with the items currently available.

Or regular "balanced" levels when all the tools become available.

In my opinion, the best thing would be a simple "non-tutorial" option. You select it, you have everything. You don't, and you still have this "unlocking style" day by day.
Hell, I'd probably choose the second, because I like to take things slow and learn progressively. But no need to force everybody into this.

And I hope (really really hope) that people will be able to grasp more the idea of doing balanced levels. Then, BAM, with more elements more crazyness. 9th day will be crazy as fuck. And, at least we will be able to enjoy some regular levels from time to time (created on the first days)

C'mon, have some faith in the community. Tons of shitty levels that will be produced (and ignored), but the really good ones will stand, being "mindless fun" ones or "balanced" ones, as you said.
I talk from the experience from Little Big Planet, and I'm sure it's gonna be the same.

 

[Forkball]

It just struck me, but... what if "learning curve" isn't the only reason. It just got to me that perhaps is so we can have more variety of levels.

If people get every single element, most levels (+90%) would be a whole mess of trying to using the most hazardous elements and doing crazy crazy stuff, and regular levels would be few.

With this, at least there will be levels with only turtles and regular blocks, and as time goes there will be with a little more of elements, and so on. But now there will be all kind of levels. And people will know that they can do regular levels (cause I know that most of us will go shit-crazy trying to create Hell in Earth with Super Mario Maker).

Now I know that I cant get all kind of levels, not just lava with saws and bullet bills with hills with hammer bros riding a clown car and firing bowsers (or something crazy).

So we get more variety with less options. Makes perfect sense.

Again, restrict yourself if you want, but let others go at their pace.

 

[Diprosalic]

ah forget it.

 

[RAWi]

In my opinion, the best thing would be a simple "non-tutorial" option. You select it, you have everything. You don't, and you still have this "unlocking style" day by day.
Hell, I'd probably choose the second, because I like to take things slow and learn progressively. But no need to force everybody into this.

I was thinking about that possibility today. I hope Nintendo can update (knowing that is happening) with an option to Toggle On everything, if the user wants without having to wait. At first I also thought it was dumb, but I have come to like this way of unlocking stuff (for this kind of game, not other games xD)

C'mon, have some faith in the community. Tons of shitty levels that will be produced (and ignored), but the really good ones will stand, being "mindless fun" ones or "balanced" ones, as you said.
I talk from the experience from Little Big Planet, and I'm sure it's gonna be the same.

I have faith in less than 5% of the community, haha. Over the time, there will be better stages. But the first week(s) almost everyone will want to burst out their dream level, even if they don't know how to do it. I also want to creat awesome and balanced levels, but I am sure I will do lots of crazy ones haha.
And the "voting" or "ranking" system will help to find good levels . Yet, I am eager to try everything.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

I'd be able to take the outrage more seriously if people were picking out specific things they want soon, instead of just "I have to wait 9 days!"

Because you don't "wait 9 days", you just start out with the basics and gradually obtain more complex pieces - ie, by the 6th day you already have 80% of the content. If you're seriously "waiting" 9 days, you better be prepared with some pretty mind-blowing Chain-Chomp, Ice Block, and One-Way Platform courses all ready to put into action!

Silly posts like "I won't touch the creation tool until everything is there!" is just really mindless complaining. Not having what you want to have I understand - I wish I could have Amiibos day 1 instead of day 2! But a lot of complaints here just don't seem to much actual reasoning beyond "there's more that exists and I don't have it yet" which is a kinda of scary attitude to have towards level designing.


*disclaimer* Yes as I've already said previously I don't agree with the unlock method, I just don't feel particularly inconvenienced by it.

This is what I expect a lot of people to do.

Yet a lot of people seem to think people will actually savior those 24 hours and really get to know those limited toolsets set by set, one set at a time.

I know which I think will be the majority.

Like really? You think the majority of purchasers aren't the slightest bit eager to play their game yet because they don't have ice blocks yet?

Utter nonsense.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

by the 6th day you already have 80% of the content.

Yay.

 

[zigg]

Like really? You think the majority of purchasers aren't the slightest bit eager to play their game yet because they don't have ice blocks yet?

Utter nonsense.

Was writing some form of this. SMM would have to some pretty awful level of unenjoyable to get to this level.

 

[Pudge]

Remember when you loaded up DOOM for the first time and there was barely any instruction other than a vague paragraph of story and the innate human urge to shoot demons?

I hate tutorials. I hate them so much.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'd be able to take the outrage more seriously if people were picking out specific things they want soon, instead of just "I have to wait 9 days!"

Because you don't "wait 9 days", you just start out with the basics and gradually obtain more complex pieces - ie, by the 6th day you already have 80% of the content. If you're seriously "waiting" 9 days, you better be prepared with some pretty mind-blowing Chain-Chomp, Ice Block, and One-Way Platform courses all ready to put into action!

Silly posts like "I won't touch the creation tool until everything is there!" is just really mindless complaining. Not having what you want to have I understand - I wish I could have Amiibos day 1 instead of day 2! But a lot of complaints here just don't seem to much actual reasoning beyond "there's more that exists and I don't have it yet" which is a kinda of scary attitude to have towards level designing.


*disclaimer* Yes as I've already said previously I don't agree with the unlock method, I just don't feel particularly inconvenienced by it.



Like really? You think the majority of purchasers aren't the slightest bit eager to play their game yet because they don't have ice blocks yet?

Utter nonsense.

Ive been saying for a while not having the Fire Flower or Starman available on day one is pretty ridiculous considering those are both things found in the very first level of Super Mario Bros.

The 9 days thing in general still feels like way too long of a time frame. Hell, if you want great first hand examples of level construction, you can beat Mario 1, 3, World, and NSMBU in easily less time than that.

 

[checkeredknight]

This lessens my hype.

 

[RAWi]

So we get more variety with less options. Makes perfect sense.

Again, restrict yourself if you want, but let others go at their pace.

I mean variety of downloadable levels. If not there would be even more levels with crazy design and way less balanced or different levels with this restriction.

Although, I also thinl that there could or should be an option for people that want to jump into everything.

It seems that Nintendo want to create a community that can access all kinds of levels, not just stuffed levels with saws.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You know what REALLY bugs me? More so than a game design that I think it's good, the group of people in this thread complaining about the other group of people in this thread. Wherein they will accuse them of claiming that all of the people who defend the action are blind Nintendo fanboys, while many people who defend the design have no problem calling people who don't like the design immature whiners. Anyone who complains about these kinds of insults towards them while perpetuating insults against others: you are really a fanboy or immature :v

 

[Portugeezer]

This is stupid.

 

[TheYanger]

People defending this because it will prevent players from being overwhelmed, give me a break.

If it's overwhelming make a reasonable tutorial. If you can't be assed to show me how to use every tool, what makes you think that just arbitrarily hiding them with no enforcement of me actually learning them is going to be BETTER? It's not.

 

[Kouriozan]

Just what we need in the current gaming landscape - more hand holding. I'll put in my 5 idle minutes a day and begin creating when all tools are available.

It's more like hand locking in this case

 

[freethoughtbubble]

You know what REALLY bugs me? More so than a game design that I think it's good, the group of people in this thread complaining about the other group of people in this thread. Wherein they will accuse them of claiming that all of the people who defend the action are blind Nintendo fanboys, while many people who defend the design have no problem calling people who don't like the design immature whiners. Anyone who complains about these kinds of insults towards them while perpetuating insults against others: you are really a fanboy or immature :v

.

What is this thread even about anymore (other than to make accusations of bias)? One side trying to convince the other to be annoyed while the other tries to convince the former that this is a good idea? Two days in, have there been any converts?

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Ive been saying for a while not having the Fire Flower or Starman available on day one is pretty ridiculous considering those are both things found in the very first level of Super Mario Bros.

The 9 days thing in general still feels like way too long of a time frame. Hell, if you want great first hand examples of level construction, you can beat Mario 1, 3, World, and NSMBU in easily less time than that.

Definitely yeah I caught the Fire Flower and Starman ones, those are are understandable for sure. But of course, those are the ones they put up day 2 so it's not so crazy.

Just the way this thread's going you'd think you'd need to wait 9 days for Fire Flowers!

 

[RagnarokX]

I'd be able to take the outrage more seriously if people were picking out specific things they want soon, instead of just "I have to wait 9 days!"

Because you don't "wait 9 days", you just start out with the basics and gradually obtain more complex pieces - ie, by the 6th day you already have 80% of the content. If you're seriously "waiting" 9 days, you better be prepared with some pretty mind-blowing Chain-Chomp, Ice Block, and One-Way Platform courses all ready to put into action!

Silly posts like "I won't touch the creation tool until everything is there!" is just really mindless complaining. Not having what you want to have I understand - I wish I could have Amiibos day 1 instead of day 2! But a lot of complaints here just don't seem to much actual reasoning beyond "there's more that exists and I don't have it yet" which is a kinda of scary attitude to have towards level designing.


*disclaimer* Yes as I've already said previously I don't agree with the unlock method, I just don't feel particularly inconvenienced by it.



Like really? You think the majority of purchasers aren't the slightest bit eager to play their game yet because they don't have ice blocks yet?

Utter nonsense.

People have to specifically say what objects they want to use to not be happy with this?

I have some great ideas for a level I really want to make, but I need:
Day 3 - Background platforms
Day 4 - Fire bars
Day 5 - Bob-ombs, donut lifts, jet engines, bridges
Day 6 - Boos, dry bones, invisible blocks, vines, p switches, doors
Day 7 - Munchers, arrow signs
Day 8 - Tracks, conveyor belts, grinders
Day 9 - Chain chomps, one way walls

 

[MrBadger]

You know what REALLY bugs me? More so than a game design that I think it's good, the group of people in this thread complaining about the other group of people in this thread. Wherein they will accuse them of claiming that all of the people who defend the action are blind Nintendo fanboys, while many people who defend the design have no problem calling people who don't like the design immature whiners. Anyone who complains about these kinds of insults towards them while perpetuating insults against others: you are really a fanboy or immature :v

And then there's the people who complain about the people complaining about the people complaining about Mario Maker

Spoiler

I completely agree, and coming in here throwing the word 'salt' around really adds nothing to the discussion

 

[Sephzilla]

Definitely yeah I caught the Fire Flower and Starman ones, those are are understandable for sure. But of course, those are the ones they put up day 2 so it's not so crazy.

Just the way this thread's going you'd think you'd need to wait 9 days for Fire Flowers!

Luckily most of the stuff I want will be earlier stuff, so it's not the end of the world. I still just think 9 days is way too long a time frame. But if you're able to mess with the Wii-U clock to work around this, then everything's good. Anyways, its not like this is even remotely making me waver on getting Mario Maker

 

[A Link to the Past]

The closest I've come to "converting" is coming slightly more towards the middle. However, I still feel that it is a really asinine system. There should have been alternative means by which a person can unlock them (besides exploits). Like, maybe if you beat all of the pack-in levels, you get to use all of the tools.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'd be able to take the outrage more seriously if people were picking out specific things they want soon, instead of just "I have to wait 9 days!"

Some of us have - you can't create Super Mario Bros. level 1-1 until day 6, because that's when you get hidden question-mark blocks. I want to recreate 1-1 and then go crazy on it.

But also, it doesn't matter if someone doesn't have anything specific in mind, some of us just want to go crazy playing around with the tools and seeing what fun things we can create. And the more tools, the more fun, the more creativity.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Some of us have - you can't create Super Mario Bros. level 1-1 until day 6, because that's when you get hidden question-mark blocks. I want to recreate 1-1 and then go crazy on it.

But also, it doesn't matter if someone doesn't have anything specific in mind, some of us just want to go crazy playing around with the tools and seeing what fun things we can create. And the more tools, the more fun, the more creativity.

Yeah, that really stuck with me, the 1-1 thing. Like we keep seeing trailers for "look at these crazy world 1-1s you can make!", and when we get the game, we can't even

 

[GuessMyUserName]

People have to specifically say what objects they want to use to not be happy with this?

I have some great ideas for a level I really want to make, but I need:
Day 3 - Background platforms
Day 4 - Fire bars
Day 5 - Bob-ombs, donut lifts, jet engines, bridges
Day 6 - Boos, dry bones, invisible blocks, vines, p switches, doors
Day 7 - Munchers, arrow signs
Day 8 - Tracks, conveyor belts, grinders
Day 9 - Chain chomps, one way walls

Sorry, I don't mean anything so blanketly harsh on anyone expressing their displeasure on this - like I said, not even I am "happy" with this unlock method, as I've always been more in favour of doing something like Smash Bros. or Pushmo's way. I just mean referring to the "game doesn't offer anything until 9 days" rhetoric which isn't insignificant here. Like, do you honestly "need" those Background Platforms right away in order to make something? Can you really not do anything without Chain Chomps for a while?

Ideally, yes, SMM should use a Pushmo style of progression instead - actually Pushmo is definitely the perfect example to use here since it's literally unlocking level design mechanisms as well.

Luckily most of the stuff I want will be earlier stuff, so it's not the end of the world. I still just think 9 days is way too long a time frame. But if you're able to mess with the Wii-U clock to work around this, then everything's good. Anyways, its not like this is even remotely making me waver on getting Mario Maker

Yeah I agree all around here, 9 days is a bit further than mild annoyance. Like if I HAD to set this kind of restriction it'd go on for like a week max.

 

[Mael]

People have to specifically say what objects they want to use to not be happy with this?

I have some great ideas for a level I really want to make, but I need:
Day 3 - Background platforms
Day 4 - Fire bars
Day 5 - Bob-ombs, donut lifts, jet engines, bridges
Day 6 - Boos, dry bones, invisible blocks, vines, p switches, doors
Day 7 - Munchers, arrow signs
Day 8 - Tracks, conveyor belts, grinders
Day 9 - Chain chomps, one way walls

Fuck one way walls.
They're a BS tile that is as inelegant as they're not integrated in Mushroom kingdom.
They're ugly, they're lazy and they could be replaced elegantly with a myriad of other mechanic already seen in other Mario games.
They're the worst part of SMM already.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Fuck one way walls.
They're a BS tile that is as inelegant as they're not integrated in Mushroom kingdom.
They're ugly, they're lazy and they could be replaced elegantly with a myriad of other mechanic already seen in other Mario games.
They're the worst part of SMM already.

You know what would have been great? If they looked like the gravity switches from Galaxy. Sort of like, if it makes you go up, you get launched up (but no gravity switcher) and if it makes you go down, it's just normal.

 

[Mael]

You know what would have been great? If they looked like the gravity switches from Galaxy. Sort of like, if it makes you go up, you get launched up (but no gravity switcher) and if it makes you go down, it's just normal.

Anything else would have been great instead of this shit.
I mean it, it's such a cheap mechanic that they wanted players to use but with none of the grace this mechanic have.
The gravity switch would provide too much headache though, I mean it's kinda lame if it affects only the player and if it doesn't it's going to make playtesting harder.
I know that there's water level but is it possible to make levels that are just above water? Like in pretty all Mario games not named SMB1?
It kinds of feel like you need to design 2 levels on the same plane but I don't think I've ever a level like that in any vid.

 

[Agent Unknown]

It doesn't surprise me that you'd have to unlock some of the elements but I thought it'd be based on in game requirements such as "Make X number of maps to unlock element Y" but forcing people to wait an arbitrary 9 days to properly take advantage of a game's tool set to the point that simple things like the fire flower and hidden blocks aren't even available on the first day? Give me a break, that's just pointless and annoying. So unskilled creators won't get to make "item spam" levels until a week later, so what? They're still going to make them either way. If there is a system clock manipulation or workaround for this I will do it. Oh well, still 100% hyped for the game day one.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

This isn't going to do anything to help user level quality. If Nintendo wanted to try and combat the inevitable clusterfuck levels then they should've designed a curation system instead of locking tools always from people that spent money on their game.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Just what we need in the current gaming landscape - more hand holding.

.... you're literally calling a game where the point is to make shit hand-holding? What the fuck?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

.... you're literally calling a game where the point is to make shit hand-holding? What the fuck?

A toolset that refuses to let you use all the tools as you please out of the box sounds pretty hand-holdy to me.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

A toolset that refuses to let you use all the tools as you please out of the box sounds pretty hand-holdy to me.

Nintendo isn't giving you a paint-by-numbers book.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Nintendo isn't giving you a paint-by-numbers book.

Then what's the point of the unlock period, then?

 

[MissCauthon]

Does the game let you create Mario 2 levels? i really loved that game, kinda sad not many mario games ever retouched that style after it released.

 

[Teknoman]

Does the game let you create Mario 2 levels? i really loved that game, kinda sad not many mario games ever retouched that style after it released.

Would be nice if they at least let you use the art style. I really like the hills style.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Does the game let you create Mario 2 levels? i really loved that game, kinda sad not many mario games ever retouched that style after it released.

Unfortunately no.

 

[soldat7]

I hope the game turn itself off after two hours. I need the reminder to go outside.

 

[RAWi]

Does the game let you create Mario 2 levels? i really loved that game, kinda sad not many mario games ever retouched that style after it released.

Almost everyone (including me) are praying for it to come as DLC... first time I am eager for DLC xD