Nocturnowl
Member
I decided to try "For Fun" online earlier, ended up on 75M, good lord I forgot just how dreadful that stage was.
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Super Smash Bros. Community Thread |OT| Next Super Smash Bros. Discussion
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
TheDinoman
Member
75m, as well as stages like Mushroomy Kingdom and Mario Bros, are a good example about why you're should never just directly port over stage design from one game into another that has completely different mechanics.
I mean imagine trying to play Green Hill Zone ported over to something like say, Super Mario World. It'd be incredibly awkward to play because Mario wasn't designed with Sonic's momentum driven gameplay and level design in mind. It's the same thing with something like 75m or Mario Bros., they literally don't fit in Smash's design at all.
I mean imagine trying to play Green Hill Zone ported over to something like say, Super Mario World. It'd be incredibly awkward to play because Mario wasn't designed with Sonic's momentum driven gameplay and level design in mind. It's the same thing with something like 75m or Mario Bros., they literally don't fit in Smash's design at all.
So what you're saying is, no mashups?
Nocturnowl
Member
Getting snagged on numerous ladders, trying to fight on platforms that barely hold a single character, cluttered nonsensical environment, odd walk off points.
What worked for Arcade DK certainly didn't for Smash.
What worked for Arcade DK certainly didn't for Smash.
TheDinoman
Member
In some ways I think the other three Donkey Kong levels would all work better due to their more simple layout.
25m is just a set of platforms on top of each other with barrels rolling down. It's also the most iconic level.
50m (pie factory) is again just a series of platforms evenly on top of each other. Pies turn into flames that go around the level a bit.
100m could have the added gimmick of having the centre fall down if all the pegs are walked over, but, again, the standard layout is rather simple.
25m is just a set of platforms on top of each other with barrels rolling down. It's also the most iconic level.
50m (pie factory) is again just a series of platforms evenly on top of each other. Pies turn into flames that go around the level a bit.
100m could have the added gimmick of having the centre fall down if all the pegs are walked over, but, again, the standard layout is rather simple.
MrSaturn99
Member
People say it should've been 25m instead but unless the platforms were drop-through I'm not sure that'd work that much better.
Mario Bros. is hysterical if you're playing with the right people. It's like Wily Castle and Golden Plains in that it's meant to deviate from the rules of Smash but whether or not it works is personal taste IMO. Personally, I love it.
My only gripe with Mushroomy Kingdom is that 1-2's ceiling makes sky KOs a little tooooo easy but that stage version overalll is my personal favorite example of Smash Pinball so I don't mind too much. Anyway, that's gone in the 3DS version and I've never had any problems with the 1-1 default. Walk-offs hardly ever bother me.
Sometimes I wonder if my standards for stages are way lower than most...between the two versions I only don't care for Pyrosphere, Skyloft and Coliseum and generally I love the ones everyone hates (every big stage that isn't Hyrule Temple, Kalos Pokemon League, Magicant, Wily Castle, etc.)
Mario Bros. is hysterical if you're playing with the right people. It's like Wily Castle and Golden Plains in that it's meant to deviate from the rules of Smash but whether or not it works is personal taste IMO. Personally, I love it.
My only gripe with Mushroomy Kingdom is that 1-2's ceiling makes sky KOs a little tooooo easy but that stage version overalll is my personal favorite example of Smash Pinball so I don't mind too much. Anyway, that's gone in the 3DS version and I've never had any problems with the 1-1 default. Walk-offs hardly ever bother me.
Sometimes I wonder if my standards for stages are way lower than most...between the two versions I only don't care for Pyrosphere, Skyloft and Coliseum and generally I love the ones everyone hates (every big stage that isn't Hyrule Temple, Kalos Pokemon League, Magicant, Wily Castle, etc.)
75m is the Mario Party of stages. I like that.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
balladofwindfishes
Member
I have a decently high tolerance for stage nonsense, but 75m is too much
Mario Kart 8 Circuit is about the limits of the hazards I'll tolerate.
But 75m, just ignoring the huge layout and stupid hazards, the stage itself is just a chore to move around. As someone who uses up to jump, a stage with a ton of ladders is just frustrating to move around without accidentally snapping to a ladder.
Mario Kart 8 Circuit is about the limits of the hazards I'll tolerate.
But 75m, just ignoring the huge layout and stupid hazards, the stage itself is just a chore to move around. As someone who uses up to jump, a stage with a ton of ladders is just frustrating to move around without accidentally snapping to a ladder.
This would be great and strikes me as a plausible choice considering it's accessible early in Prime and is the site of the game's Ridley battle.I'm just pulling for Dixie, Ridley (I will never give up), and Excitebiker now. I guess Inkling as well but they're just an inevitability.
But I want to share that I think the Artifact Temple from the first Metroid Prime is a place that looks like the perfect setting for a Smash Bros. stage and that Metroid stages could do with some visual variety.
My real dream stage for Metroid though would be Sanctuary Fortress. It's not an exaggeration to call Sanctuary Fortress the greatest video game area ever designed, and it's just so complex and visually interesting.
I love the balladofwindfishes
Member
Artifact Temple could have been the exact same layout and gimmicks as Pyrosphere, just with better atmosphere, potentially better music, and a much more interesting stage in general. And I'd probably would have liked it more with it being a Prime stage.
And also a logical excuse for Ridley (on this map it'd be Meta Ridley) to power up. Via pockets of Phazon that would turn him into Omega Ridley. Instead of a half ass excuse of "HE BECOME META RIDLEY BECAUSE OF SPACE MAGIC" or whatever the dumb excuse is for his power up on Pyrosphere.
...or they could have brought back Frigate Orpheon, which was a fun map.
And also a logical excuse for Ridley (on this map it'd be Meta Ridley) to power up. Via pockets of Phazon that would turn him into Omega Ridley. Instead of a half ass excuse of "HE BECOME META RIDLEY BECAUSE OF SPACE MAGIC" or whatever the dumb excuse is for his power up on Pyrosphere.
...or they could have brought back Frigate Orpheon, which was a fun map.
TheDinoman
Member
Metroid is seemingly doomed to have nothing but lava levels, I'm afraid. Frigate Orpheon was an exception.
Same thing with Donkey Kong. All these interesting theme park levels, mine cart levels, snow levels, bramble levels you could use from any of the DKC games and all we ever get are jungle themed ones.
Same thing with Donkey Kong. All these interesting theme park levels, mine cart levels, snow levels, bramble levels you could use from any of the DKC games and all we ever get are jungle themed ones.
Dr. Buni
Member
I was hoping Frigate Orpheon would be the Smash 3DS Metroid stage (along with a new Metroid stage... I was naive, I know), but then we got Brinstar instead, which is better than Norfair and Pyrosphere at least, but still a rather underwhelming choice for a stage. Brinstar Depths would have been better, at least Kraid would make an appearance in Smash again.
Well if we're doomed to have lava levels... At least fucking give us Lower Norfair or a Lower Norfair remix.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Or just rip freaking Magmoor Caves
If all you had was Smash as a reference, you'd have no idea there was even a third Metroid Prime game.
The last Metroid game that wasn't a total failure is only referenced in Smash 4 via a footnote on Dark Samus' trophy...
No music rips or remixes. No trophies of the other hunters, or the big AI brain things, or random enemies. Nothing at all, besides the colors on a costume for Samus, and the visual design of the Dark Samus assist trophy.
The holes in references to Prime are ridiculous. Majora's Mask, a single game in the Zelda series (and while it's awesome, is not really integral to the series) has almost as much content in Smash 4 as every Prime game combined. Prime being the game that redefined the Metroid series and is considered one of the best games ever made from one of the best trilogies ever made.
No other series, other than maybe Donkey Kong, has to deal with such massive gaps in game representation. Apparently there were only two games in the Metroid series, Super and Other M. And even Super isn't really represented all that great in Smash Bros, anymore.
It's like Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 or Star Fox 64 never being referenced at all in Smash Bros because they aren't the oldest game, nor the most recent.
If all you had was Smash as a reference, you'd have no idea there was even a third Metroid Prime game.
The last Metroid game that wasn't a total failure is only referenced in Smash 4 via a footnote on Dark Samus' trophy...
No music rips or remixes. No trophies of the other hunters, or the big AI brain things, or random enemies. Nothing at all, besides the colors on a costume for Samus, and the visual design of the Dark Samus assist trophy.
The holes in references to Prime are ridiculous. Majora's Mask, a single game in the Zelda series (and while it's awesome, is not really integral to the series) has almost as much content in Smash 4 as every Prime game combined. Prime being the game that redefined the Metroid series and is considered one of the best games ever made from one of the best trilogies ever made.
No other series, other than maybe Donkey Kong, has to deal with such massive gaps in game representation. Apparently there were only two games in the Metroid series, Super and Other M. And even Super isn't really represented all that great in Smash Bros, anymore.
It's like Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 or Star Fox 64 never being referenced at all in Smash Bros because they aren't the oldest game, nor the most recent.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I was saying not representing Prime in Smash is the same as not representing Ocarina, not that Ocarina isn't represented.
Ocarina has several remixes, an entire character, two maps and plenty of trophies.
Prime is one of the most important games in the Metroid series. It shouldn't be stuck with a couple of music rips, an assist trophy and some Samus recolors.
Interesting tidbit: Every 3D Zelda game in the series has had a stage in Smash. All, but Majora's Mask (Great Bay), are in Smash 4 Wii U.
Hey at least we got that one random bit of Prime Hunters music!
balladofwindfishes
Member
Remember when every Hunter had a trophy?
Instead of a random yellow robot thing that's one of the most forgettable bosses, ever.
MrSaturn99
Member
I swear I literally thought that was an Excitebot or something when I first saw that, lol
Other M is so forgettable to me that I did a double-take when I got the Gravity Suit trophy in the 3DS version, too. "Wait, that's what that looked like?"
Wait what?
*looks it up*
Why the fuck did that get a trophy out of all things? Sakurai's team is so weird sometimes
balladofwindfishes
Member
All things considered, the Prime content in Brawl was great.
A stage, a remix, some song rips, a Samus color (dark suit) and ZSS color (dark blue), and plenty of trophies (random enemies, the Hunters, Dark Samus, bosses) and stickers. And Meta Ridley was a boss.
And then it all went wrong...
Remember when they modeled her Fusion Suit based on official art?
A stage, a remix, some song rips, a Samus color (dark suit) and ZSS color (dark blue), and plenty of trophies (random enemies, the Hunters, Dark Samus, bosses) and stickers. And Meta Ridley was a boss.
And then it all went wrong...
Remember when they modeled her Fusion Suit based on official art?
Nocturnowl
Member
Let's be real, the yellow forklift thing is one of the most memorable Metroid bosses for how silly it was.
Metroid Prime 3 gets to join DKC3 in the Smash Bros "we're totally pretending this sequel never happened" representation.
Clearly they just don't like Western made trilogies.
Metroid Prime 3 gets to join DKC3 in the Smash Bros "we're totally pretending this sequel never happened" representation.
Clearly they just don't like Western made trilogies.
"Representation" comes down to the designers' personal preference.
I mean, we have 2 new stages, at least 11 pieces of music including 4 remixes, 5 items, 2 assist trophies, God knows how many Smash Run enemies, and a clone character all from one game (Kid Icarus Uprising) that sold less than 1.5 million copies. Why? Because Sakurai directed Kid Icarus Uprising and is really passionate about the game.
I mean, we have 2 new stages, at least 11 pieces of music including 4 remixes, 5 items, 2 assist trophies, God knows how many Smash Run enemies, and a clone character all from one game (Kid Icarus Uprising) that sold less than 1.5 million copies. Why? Because Sakurai directed Kid Icarus Uprising and is really passionate about the game.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I think someone apparently found the first concept art from Super Smash Bros Melee, based on two Kirby stages. It was pretty cool..
Please don't ask me for link because it's bannable offense to provide an url to the scans.
Please don't ask me for link because it's bannable offense to provide an url to the scans.
Yeah. Folks were up in arms about Sakurai favoring Fire Emblem because of the six characters business, but if we go by the franchises' history and impact, Kid Icarus is definitely the favorite child in Smash 4. Understandable if you think that Sakurai included many things in Uprising knowing full well he could also use them in the next Smash...Still, the fact that all of them are under the Kid Icarus banner does bring very disproportionate representation in its favor.
If new things are added to the rumored NX up-port, I'd be perfectly fine if KI doesn't get anything new and an effort is made to bring other franchises up to snuff, like, off the top of my head, Wario and the DLC only series.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If we're getting more third party content, I'd like to see Sonic expanded with an item and maybe a new character. Even if it's only a semi-clone Knuckles or Metal Sonic.
TheDinoman
Member
Okay, let's be fair here. Kid Icarus Uprising, in a way, was partially designed as an easy resource mine for Sakurai to use for Smash 4 which was obviously on his mind when making KI. Most of the game's ideas, gameplay mechanics, menus, etc all borrow heavily from Smash, so to me it makes sense that Sakurai would borrow heavily from KIU back into SSB.
For example, during its on-foot gameplay and multiplayer modes, Uprising has items that function identically to how items work in Smash Bros. In that sense the five items from Kid Icarus make sense: They're just generic Smash Bros. items trapped in another game.
I mean, this literally looks right in line with items like the Motion Sensor Bomb or the Cracker Launcher.
A similar thing with all the enemies in Smash Run, which Sakurai himself specifically addressed.
And Dark Pit was obviously a costume for Pit that only got in as a cheap extra, much like Dr. Mario and Lucina. Alph was planned for this treatment too but it didn't pan out
Another thing to consider: the Kid Icarus "favoritism" isn't quite as noticeable on Wii U where there's no multiple Smash Run enemies and the fact that Kid Icarus literally doesn't have any trophies that aren't the playable characters, items, ATs, etc it has in the game, making its lineup there way smaller compared to the 3DS version which basically has every model reused from Uprising, which once again proves that KI only got all that shit because it was easy to reuse.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The X Bomb is totally a Meteos item that he got in the game as a technicality.
"Oh no, it's absolutely not from that game I made that isn't owned by Nintendo, it's from this other game they totally do own and are completely unrelated!"
Yea right Sakurai, I know your games.
I've never considered the X Bomb anything but a Meteos item hidden under the KI umbrella for copyright reasons. He's done this before with the Motion Sensor Bomb being from "TOP SECRET" even though it was totally a Goldeneye item. We all know it's a Goldeneye item. Just like the X Bomb is a Meteos item. The item works nothing like the KI item (releasing multiple bombs in a X pattern) and is nearly 100% identical in function to the Meteos item (giant explosion in a huge X).
"Oh no, it's absolutely not from that game I made that isn't owned by Nintendo, it's from this other game they totally do own and are completely unrelated!"
Yea right Sakurai, I know your games.
I've never considered the X Bomb anything but a Meteos item hidden under the KI umbrella for copyright reasons. He's done this before with the Motion Sensor Bomb being from "TOP SECRET" even though it was totally a Goldeneye item. We all know it's a Goldeneye item. Just like the X Bomb is a Meteos item. The item works nothing like the KI item (releasing multiple bombs in a X pattern) and is nearly 100% identical in function to the Meteos item (giant explosion in a huge X).
TheDinoman
Member
You could also say something similar about the Hocotate Bomb. The design is based on Olimar's ship but it's actual functionality is identical to the Boom Rocket from Uprising. Makes me wonder if it was originally was just the Boom Rocket, but they wanted to spread series representation out a little so they disguised it as a Pikmin item. Same thing with the Drill Arm, which is listed as an original Smash item despite it being clearly the same weapon from KIU.
Funny enough, I just finished replaying Zero Mission (after recently finishing up AM2R).
Do eet.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Well, with Meteos, it's not a Nintendo franchise and it can't be in Smash without permission. So changing it to a similar item in appearance and making it functionally the same as Meteos means he can get around not needing permission, even if it's totally obvious to anyone what's going on. The "Motion Sensor Bomb" from "TOP SECRET" was the same situation. Except with that he just skipped the middle man and made it visually identical as well as functionally identical. Just changed the name from Proximity Mine to Motion Sensor Bomb. Japanese Melee lets us know it was 100% a Goldeneye weapon, as they changed it to the Perfect Dark mine.
With the Hocotate Bomb, the functionality might have been taken from KI, but the weapon doesn't feel that way. The bomb is the real size of Olimar's ship, which makes it kind of clever, and its functionality is basically just a mini version of Olimar's Final Smash.
I didn't know about the KI item until now, but the Hocotate Bomb made total sense to me before knowing there was an identical KI item.
The Drill Arm is weird though. It's a KI item that's just treated as a generic item. It doesn't match the other generic items at all in design, it stands out quite a lot.
With the Hocotate Bomb, the functionality might have been taken from KI, but the weapon doesn't feel that way. The bomb is the real size of Olimar's ship, which makes it kind of clever, and its functionality is basically just a mini version of Olimar's Final Smash.
I didn't know about the KI item until now, but the Hocotate Bomb made total sense to me before knowing there was an identical KI item.
The Drill Arm is weird though. It's a KI item that's just treated as a generic item. It doesn't match the other generic items at all in design, it stands out quite a lot.
Eggman would be great:
- Is a villain
- Has retro appeal
- Avoids the "shitty friends" stigma
- Would have a unique moveset
- Would hopefully lead to an Egg-themed stage
- Mike Pollock is awesome
Green Mamba
Member
Well the only Zelda stages in Smash Bros. history that aren't in the Wii U version are Great Bay and the two 3DS stages. There's a lot of Zelda stages in it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If they bring 3DS stages to the NX port, Gerudo Valley seems like one of the 3DS stages that would update to HD pretty well, so maybe we'll see all but two.
Of course, they could also bring Great Bay back if they wanted, nothing wrong with that, either. Although that stage with swimming would feel weird.
Zelda is a big enough and popular enough series, I'm not sure if it could ever have too much content in Smash. It's like Pokemon and Mario. It's basically impossible to over saturate the game with those series.
I don't have any of them anymore ;_;
Buy the trilogy off the eShop then.
NeonZ
Member
The issue with Great Bay is that they'd need to rebuild it from ground up. I can't see it returning due to that.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yea, but how cool would the stage look updated to MM:3D assets?
And the music
- Legend of Zelda Main Theme (Melee)
- Saria's Song (Melee)
- Termina Field (Stolen from Pirate Ship)
- Clock Town Medley
- Vs Majora (Remix This)
- Stone Tower (Inverted)
- Deku Palance Theme
Green Mamba
Member
I still think it's a missed opportunity that Corneria in the 3DS version wasn't visually updated to resemble Star Fox 643D.
Huh, didn't know it was on the eShop. Will look into buying it, thanks.
Regular Tourneys are ending as of September 30th.
I guess the team is finally moving on to the NX version.
I guess the team is finally moving on to the NX version.
Professor Beef
Banned
Or, more likely, they're ending the service because it's trash.
Didn't it see a decent amount of support, or did nobody bother?