I mean I understand. You admittidley focus on 2 characters that have to be careful with their approaches in Bowser and Gannondorf. I hadn't gotten around to really playing Bowser much in 4 yet, but I played him regularly in Brawl and in that game he had even less offensive options so I know where you are coming from. When the game's roster balloons the way it has, you're going to have characters that fall towards that Bowser/Gannondorf defensive level. I will say one of the things I have noticed really good Gannondorf players do is they take a constant, slow approach towards the opponent while learning to power shield everything. I would look into applying this approach strategy with what you are already doing with your gannondorf. I also don't know how I feel about that sideB. I feel like the default is better.
I would also encourage you to try characters with a more offensive focused (or at least the option to be offensively focused) playstyle, so you you can better see the benefits of offensive play.
Diddy
Sheik
Ness
Lucario
Mario
Luigi
Mii Brawler
Yoshi
Fox
Pikachu
Greninja
Shulk
Wario
There are a few others on the cusp, like C.Falcon, but I'll stick to those (Actually thinking about it, you may like Falcon as you play Gannondorf and Falcon is speedier.)
What are some defensive minded characters you have in mind?
The custom side B is better for less careful players, but default is better for more careful players. I am leaning toward going back to default.
The thing is this, Shamrock: I only really like playing villains. Look at the horrifically short-changed list of villains in this game, and you will see how limited my options are. You play Ness partially, I assume, because you are a big Earthbound fan. A game which I will purchase and play through this summer. Aesthetics are part of character choice. Could I enjoy some of these other playstyles? Likely so, but I don't feel satisfied winning with the character, which is even more important for my personal enjoyment of the game. Hence why I keep mentioning Mewtwo. A projectile-oriented villain? Praise be! I tried Dark Link, but the voice is the same, which bothers me. Your entire list is "good guys" to me.
I generally agree with your list except for Mario and Lucario. I find that they are both rather limited in their offensive options. My frame of reference is Bowser play. Can a character continually assault Bowser safely? Then that character has good offensive options. Or, is the character so limited that the player has to turtle, resulting in a natural turtle-off? Then that character is limited. In my experience, most characters can't open Bowser up without me making a mistake, which means their offense is bad.
The problem isn't just that Dorf has to be careful. I can be careful, and honestly, I was only half paying attention during our set. I was trying to edit the code in the ranbat brackets on the side, so my mind was multitasking and not focused on good play. My Dorf is typically much more slow and methodical than what you saw. Unfortunately, I play on a 50" TV, so input lag makes power shielding difficult.
Anyway, Dorf doesn't just have to be careful. He is entirely unsafe. For example, against Cronoc, I used a dtilt at max range to poke him. This should be perfectly safe. Instead, it got power shielded and grabbed before Dorf could even recover. That is extremely poor game design. There isn't anything Dorf can do about that kind of issue. He is just fucked if the opponent has good defense.
I enjoy our conversations.
Edit: oh, re: defensive characters. One that strikes me in particular is Robin. Zero capacity for offense unless the opponent is pinned. The smart plan is to charge your book, and then shield, roll, or spot dodge if the opponent gets too close. This highlights the irritating defensive nature of the game if you are Bowser, because when you get close, Robin can spot dodge, or shield. If Robin shields, you have to grab. If Robin spot dodges, Robin can punish the grab recovery. The situation is inherently a 50/50 mix up on Bowser just for him trying to attack. That is inherently ridiculous. There should be a safe method of attacking an opponent that is doing nothing but blocking.
Edit 2:
If Sakurai put together a competent roster, I should have Wolf, Mewtwo, and Ridley to pick from. Notice that the first two of these villains already have projectiles, adding more variety to someone of my aesthetic inclinations. Ridley would probably be an offensive aerial character based on spacing, as well. Demise would also be a good option.
Anyway, look at the villain list for the game and you will see how few options I have. It is actually rather pathetic in terms of roster diversity.
