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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT2| Only Game Where You Can Beat Up The Duck Hunt Dog

That's good. You just need to work on not doing the same input too many times in a row when you aren't sure what to do, though. Try not to down tilt more than twice in a row, try not to spam spotdodge since characters with multi-hit attacks can easily punish it, and never backroll repeatedly as an approach. I think you forget about Peach's float when you're looking for a KO and just start running back and forth looking for dash attacks, which only really works with Captain Falcon. You want to get them to make a mistake. Make them think you're approaching with short hops or low float and see if they make a big mistake like going for a dash attack or unsafe aerials.

Also don't be too hasty with your items, I think you threw a Bob-omb and a Mr. Saturn.
Couple of notes: I've found that most players actually try and read that I won't throw a third dtilt after the second one whiffs -- so the third one connects. I guess it's probably a case of "that's such a bad idea there's no way they'll do it", so they expect me to do something else.
Dodging, yeah, I have a tendency to basically use it as a movement option. I do need to stop with it. But the reason I'm spot dodging so much is to try and break my rolling habits. :x
As for float, I specifically didn't use it in this match because, as far as I can tell, I'm particularly vulnerable to Link when ground floating. It's too easy for him to pop off an arrow real quick, catching me off guard and ruining my rhythm, so I tend to use Float defensively with him. Float is good (when mastered) as an offensive option, but I felt the need to stay a bit more defensive against stray arrows.

Good stuff, friend. Yep, you definitely want to focus on the enemy more than yourself; you already know what you're doing, so watch what they're doing and plan accordingly.

I noticed you relied heavily on rolls as a form of movement, something weaker players often do. Use your dashes more, even walk before you think about just rolling to get to where you want to go. You can jump out of them, but not out of rolls so consider your options. The other issue with rolling is if you abuse them like you did in that match, you'll be punished by stronger players when you're vulnerable. Try to curb the habit and explore other options; you have a float, so try it.

Keep track of what turnips you pull and whether you pulled an item. If you got a Mr. Saturn, bait out a shield and break it. If you got a Bob-omb, try to blow them up but don't be hasty. If you get a stitchface turnip, take advantage of its high knockback to send the opponent flying, and so forth. You tended to haphazardly toss veggies without regard to what they were.

When you're looking for the kill, try to make them come to you in your situations. You're Peach, you don't excel in approaching but in punishing approaches. You're not Falcon; throw some veggies at Link and make him feel like he's not gonna kill unless he gets closer, and then dodge his tactics and punish accordingly. Don't be afraid to wait, you still have 2 minutes on the clock, plenty of time to seal the game. You never know if a lucky veggie is right around the corner, so don't just toss out dash attacks hoping they'll stick.

On that note, floating in and out of their space is something to keep in mind. Fair and bair are good tools to lay on the pressure, as well as dair from above and uair from below. Nair should be your combo breaker in the air and something to hit them off-stage with.

As you get used to seeing what your opponent is doing, try busting out the Toad. He's really strong in this game and a well-placed Toad counter can turn the tables in your favor.

Also, I need to get an actual camera or capture card, your video makes mine look like shit. ;__;
I do need to start taking advantage of what turnips I pluck, yeah. Usually I'm good about seeing a stich face, but sometimes I feel that they see it just as easily as I do, and usually they do a good job about dodging/blocking it. I guess there's a way to punish that, but I need to get used to thinking about it I guess.
I tend to toad a lot better against C Falcons. I fight a LOT of C Falcons, so maybe that's why I do the dashes a lot lol.
not that they win against his &_&
I do Toad Falcon and Mac pretty well though. Honestly, Toading is hard as shit -- it's not like Counter where it's quick and doesn't affect momentum. Using Toad takes longer, AND floats me higher, causing their attack to whiff him, and then allow them to attack me anyway. &_&

I will take all of that to heart though.
 

Cronox

Banned
I love this guy using 12 year old insults with his tags haha.

Also, I think I figured out what the fundamental thing I've been doing wrong is...

I haven't been looking at the enemy. :/
I've basically been focusing in the neutral space in between the characters, using my peripheral vision to try and see both the opponent and myself, and while it worked well enough for seeing things coming at me, it seems as though my focusing on the stage itself prevented me from being able to think about what the opponent was trying to do. I don't know. But I realized this in a match against a Little Mac, who I very narrowly lost against (I could've sworn you could shield a KO punch...). About halfway through this fight with a Link, I remembered that I should've been fucking GLUING MY EYEBALLS TO HIM instead of just trying to see everything, and I think it turned out quite well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ2pUrD3O-c&feature=youtu.be
*This should work I guess. My first YouTube video*

From watching this video I have some feedback for you. I'm seeing an overreliance on attacks that aren't safe.

-The dash attacks are probably connected to your earlier complaints about being grabbed. On shield, that dash attack is a free grab.

-There are a few times where you hover above the Link, then use a fair and get punished. From my matchups against Peach players, I find that her dair is hard to punish when she's floating above me, making it safe shield pressure, and damage if I drop my shield. Do you have your controls set up to allow you to do multiple attacks while continuing to float (as in, while holding a jump button)?

-I saw your comment about hovering with Links, nevertheless I'd like to have seen you hover more. I think hovered dairs or running grabs would have been a more successful successful approach than a dash attack nearly every time. Remember, you don't have to go straight for him. Say you went for a hovering dair approach - Link's usmash is a powerful move and has great priority. I'm sure Peach's dair loses to it. However, if you hover just above him and out of range, you can bait out that attack and punish it afterwards with a hovering dair or some other attack. Peach's air spacing is similar to Jigglypuff's in that way.

-I notice that you were unwilling to chase Link offstage. Mostly what I saw were turnips being thrown in his general direction. The problem with the turnips is, you were throwing them towards him from onstage, so due to the trajectory of the throws they were either passing safely over him, or through him during his ledge invincibility. This is an attempt at edge-guarding, but not a very proactive one. Without going underneath the stage to pressure his recovery directly, there are a few things you can do that put you at minimal risk. Grab a turnip, hover over the stage and throw it downwards (or z-drop, or toss it up, if there's time for it to reach your opponent). If they're recovering to the ledge from above, you can hover out meet them. Use a faster, safer attack like nair or multihit one like dair to attempt gimps. Peach has no problem moving horizontally, and the further offstage you go to meet someone, the less likely they'll have time to throw out an attack. But as you know, unless you get spiked, Peach's up b can get you back to the ledge easily. Not so for your opponent. Now, I could be wrong about my aerial attack recommendations (which ones to throw out etc), but you should get comfortable offstage. Peach is a character that can go deep very safely. Keep her 2nd jump and up b and she can recover from practically anywhere. That is one of her strengths. Offstage game is huge in Smash. I feel alright against some of the better players here when onstage, I can generally keep up and the battle isn't too one sided. But when I get offstage is when the match starts getting stacked against me. I can fight Karsticles' customs Ganondorf somewhat evenly onstage, but if he spikes me with a dair as I'm recovering the battle goes from even to one sided. Peach doesn't have a spike, but she can go so far out to disrupt recoveries that she doesn't need one.

-I already mentioned it a bit, but knowing your character's strengths and minimizing their weaknesses is important. If an attack leaves you vulnerable, a) is there a safer option that does the same thing, and b) if it's unsafe, use it rarely enough that the opponent doesn't expect it.

Keep it up!

When you're looking for the kill, try to make them come to you in your situations. You're Peach, you don't excel in approaching but in punishing approaches. You're not Falcon; throw some veggies at Link and make him feel like he's not gonna kill unless he gets closer, and then dodge his tactics and punish accordingly. Don't be afraid to wait, you still have 2 minutes on the clock, plenty of time to seal the game. You never know if a lucky veggie is right around the corner, so don't just toss out dash attacks hoping they'll stick.

This is good advice against many characters, but I don't think Link is one of them. The one in the video was pretty aggressive and didn't hang back to use projectiles, but Link is one of the last characters that would need to go towards their opponent, besides to hit the killing blow. Many Links on FG are willing to keep peppering people with bombs and boomerangs past 150%, and their projectiles have more range and speed than turnips.
 
This is good advice against many characters, but I don't think Link is one of them. The one in the video was pretty aggressive and didn't hang back to use projectiles, but Link is one of the last characters that would need to go towards their opponent, besides to hit the killing blow. Many Links on FG are willing to keep peppering people with bombs and boomerangs past 150%, and their projectiles have more range and speed than turnips.

Indeed, even as I wrote it I thought about how aggressive that particular Link was. Still, fighting that kind of Link requires consistent shielding and pressure up-close to make him do anything, otherwise he'll just keep chucking shit. I don't know Peach too well, but I'd say just the threat of being near him should be enough to bait out, say a grab or smash. However, this is just my line of thinking against players of this particular skill level. I'll give it some more thought later.

Also you guys must be in Europe or something, it's past 2 am over here and y'all are fighting on. :O

Edit: H3XAntiStyle, when you see this post make sure to visit this website and read up. Should help you out a bit. :)
 

Neki

Member
GG's Twilt. Man I've been playing too many scrubs on FG and autopiloting stupid things too much. Need to get my shit together. Great Link and Shulk though.
Napster you should give me some tips on approaching shorter characters with Rosalina, a short hop neutral air is good against taller characters but I feel like it whiffsI way too much against pikachu and Ness, do I just need to space it differently? I also have a hard time against characters who stay in the air a lot like lucina and puff, how do you combat someone who has faster aerials and speed than you in the air?
 

Cronox

Banned
K, you host please

Let me know if there's specific stages or characters you'd like me to play as. If you're testing customs, I imagine you're probably not intending to test them against Bowser of Jigglypuff generally...

Edit: with Lucario, you may want to check out how to ground cancel his up b. Bowser's embrace is warm and painful if you end up in endlag from that...
 

Nabster92

Member
Napster you should give me some tips on approaching shorter characters with Rosalina, a short hop neutral air is good against taller characters but I feel like it whiffsI way too much against pikachu and Ness, do I just need to space it differently? I also have a hard time against characters who stay in the air a lot like lucina and puff, how do you combat someone who has faster aerials and speed than you in the air?

Coincidentally, I just played like 3 or 4 Pikachu's on Anther's ladder tonight. They typically are too short to get hit by the first part of luma n-air, but they can still be hit by the end of rosa's n-air unless they're crouching or something. I think I use n-airs more at a further distance from Pikachu just to neutralize their projectiles and not so much to hit them. Also just have it out sometimes to hit them out of quick attacks. Dash attack cancelled grabs with Luma around are a pretty solid option once you're in range. Or just poke with tilts.

Ness I don't feel is as bad in terms of shortness causing things to miss.

For Lucina, if they're coming in with some kinda aerial, you should be able to get some kind of punish off their landing since Marth/Lucina doesn't really auto cancel their aerials anymore like Brawl. Just don't get too comfortable in shield and watch for shield breakers. The Rosalina board on smashboards is currently analyzing the Lucina matchup if you're interested. They already did Marth, so you may wanna read up on that as well.

Jigg's you shouldn't really need to approach as they kinda have to hover around you and pressure you with aerials. You don't have to challenge them in the air just because they are there. Just use n-air's with Luma if you find an opening that needs to be punished quickly between their aerials.
 

Cronox

Banned
Whoa, the thing that just happened on Lylat should make that a banned stage. Bullshit... I had to save that one. To recap, an up b (fortress) became an aerial halfway through, sending me offstage and helpless into an SD.
 
Whoa, the thing that just happened on Lylat should make that a banned stage. Bullshit... I had to save that one. To recap, an up b (fortress) became an aerial halfway through, sending me offstage and helpless into an SD.

Yeah it does that every time it tilts or so
 

Cronox

Banned
Yeah it does that every time it tilts or so

I'm not happy when the stage causes my character to go into a landing animation in the middle of an attack, but when the stage causes an SD that I can't do anything about, that's fucked up. Bowser takes a long time to turn his momentum around while in the fortress animation, especially after it finishes in the air. If I was in a tourney I would have saved the replay and called over a TO to dispute the match. Such a shit stage, I only take it in the hopes that it'll screw the other person over more than me.

Anyway, good games! I was going to call that last game myself cause it's getting a little late for playing. Gotta settle down so I can go to sleep eventually... Custom fox's up b seems like a straight upgrade, I'm not sure how much distance is really lost there compared to the usual. Seems negligible to me though, especially combined with Wolf's side b. Obviously kills crazy early, but I'm not that afraid of it cause it's so telegraphed. The times you caught me with it on characters I'm comfortable controlling were cause I didn't anticipate it or didn't notice you were setting up for it. Takes a good read to hit with, as an attack like that should.

Indeed, even as I wrote it I thought about how aggressive that particular Link was. Still, fighting that kind of Link requires consistent shielding and pressure up-close to make him do anything, otherwise he'll just keep chucking shit. I don't know Peach too well, but I'd say just the threat of being near him should be enough to bait out, say a grab or smash. However, this is just my line of thinking against players of this particular skill level. I'll give it some more thought later.

Also you guys must be in Europe or something, it's past 2 am over here and y'all are fighting on. :O

Nah, just pacific time... it's past 2am here now too :/

Peach has to approach a lot of characters cause turnips are kind of weak without RNGesus helping out. Yeah, you're thinking a lot like I was, baiting out large attacks etc.
 
Anyway, good games! I was going to call that last game myself cause it's getting a little late for playing. Gotta settle down so I can go to sleep eventually... Custom fox's up b seems like a straight upgrade, I'm not sure how much distance is really lost there compared to the usual. Seems negligible to me though, especially combined with Wolf's side b. Obviously kills crazy early, but I'm not that afraid of it cause it's so telegraphed. The times you caught me with it on characters I'm comfortable controlling were cause I didn't anticipate it or didn't notice you were setting up for it. Takes a good read to hit with, as an attack like that should.

The trade off in recovery feels significant believe me :T
But yeah that's why my favorite sets pair it with Wolf's side B. I really do appreciate those early kills, although they were only killing as early as they did because they caught you in the air, and you're right, it's meant to punish a read or just outright mistakes (you really really don't want to try air dodging it if while falling straight down). Still, by far my favorite thing in matches today including the ones at the local weekly was spiking with Wolf's side B. God it feels great.
 
Hey guys, this will be the last week before I close registration to our 1st Doubles Friendly! If you'd like to enter, let me know! If you've already entered but have no partner, find one! If you've already entered and have a partner, get to practicing! Just because it's a friendly tournament doesn't mean you shouldn't play your best anyway.

Also, at the end of the week I'll make the bracket public and you can all begin your matches on Sunday, April 5th because I thought it'd make sense to start things on a new week. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask me publicly or through PM.
 
From watching this video I have some feedback for you. I'm seeing an overreliance on attacks that aren't safe.

-The dash attacks are probably connected to your earlier complaints about being grabbed. On shield, that dash attack is a free grab.

-There are a few times where you hover above the Link, then use a fair and get punished. From my matchups against Peach players, I find that her dair is hard to punish when she's floating above me, making it safe shield pressure, and damage if I drop my shield. Do you have your controls set up to allow you to do multiple attacks while continuing to float (as in, while holding a jump button)?

-I saw your comment about hovering with Links, nevertheless I'd like to have seen you hover more. I think hovered dairs or running grabs would have been a more successful successful approach than a dash attack nearly every time. Remember, you don't have to go straight for him. Say you went for a hovering dair approach - Link's usmash is a powerful move and has great priority. I'm sure Peach's dair loses to it. However, if you hover just above him and out of range, you can bait out that attack and punish it afterwards with a hovering dair or some other attack. Peach's air spacing is similar to Jigglypuff's in that way.

-I notice that you were unwilling to chase Link offstage. Mostly what I saw were turnips being thrown in his general direction. The problem with the turnips is, you were throwing them towards him from onstage, so due to the trajectory of the throws they were either passing safely over him, or through him during his ledge invincibility. This is an attempt at edge-guarding, but not a very proactive one. Without going underneath the stage to pressure his recovery directly, there are a few things you can do that put you at minimal risk. Grab a turnip, hover over the stage and throw it downwards (or z-drop, or toss it up, if there's time for it to reach your opponent). If they're recovering to the ledge from above, you can hover out meet them. Use a faster, safer attack like nair or multihit one like dair to attempt gimps. Peach has no problem moving horizontally, and the further offstage you go to meet someone, the less likely they'll have time to throw out an attack. But as you know, unless you get spiked, Peach's up b can get you back to the ledge easily. Not so for your opponent. Now, I could be wrong about my aerial attack recommendations (which ones to throw out etc), but you should get comfortable offstage. Peach is a character that can go deep very safely. Keep her 2nd jump and up b and she can recover from practically anywhere. That is one of her strengths. Offstage game is huge in Smash. I feel alright against some of the better players here when onstage, I can generally keep up and the battle isn't too one sided. But when I get offstage is when the match starts getting stacked against me. I can fight Karsticles' customs Ganondorf somewhat evenly onstage, but if he spikes me with a dair as I'm recovering the battle goes from even to one sided. Peach doesn't have a spike, but she can go so far out to disrupt recoveries that she doesn't need one.

-I already mentioned it a bit, but knowing your character's strengths and minimizing their weaknesses is important. If an attack leaves you vulnerable, a) is there a safer option that does the same thing, and b) if it's unsafe, use it rarely enough that the opponent doesn't expect it.

Keep it up!



This is good advice against many characters, but I don't think Link is one of them. The one in the video was pretty aggressive and didn't hang back to use projectiles, but Link is one of the last characters that would need to go towards their opponent, besides to hit the killing blow. Many Links on FG are willing to keep peppering people with bombs and boomerangs past 150%, and their projectiles have more range and speed than turnips.
Hrm. That is a really good point about the dash attacks, wasn't really thinking about them that way. I'll try to mix them up then.
I do actually have my controls set to Z for jump specifically so I C use C Stick to use aerials, but I still end up using fair. I need to get accustomed to Dair's range so I use it more.
 

Neki

Member
Coincidentally, I just played like 3 or 4 Pikachu's on Anther's ladder tonight. They typically are too short to get hit by the first part of luma n-air, but they can still be hit by the end of rosa's n-air unless they're crouching or something. I think I use n-airs more at a further distance from Pikachu just to neutralize their projectiles and not so much to hit them. Also just have it out sometimes to hit them out of quick attacks. Dash attack cancelled grabs with Luma around are a pretty solid option once you're in range. Or just poke with tilts.

Ness I don't feel is as bad in terms of shortness causing things to miss.

For Lucina, if they're coming in with some kinda aerial, you should be able to get some kind of punish off their landing since Marth/Lucina doesn't really auto cancel their aerials anymore like Brawl. Just don't get too comfortable in shield and watch for shield breakers. The Rosalina board on smashboards is currently analyzing the Lucina matchup if you're interested. They already did Marth, so you may wanna read up on that as well.

Jigg's you shouldn't really need to approach as they kinda have to hover around you and pressure you with aerials. You don't have to challenge them in the air just because they are there. Just use n-air's with Luma if you find an opening that needs to be punished quickly between their aerials.

Okay thanks for the advice. Do you usually chase your opponents off stage after sending them flying? I've been trying to use down airs to contest them but I find it rarely hits. Or do you usually contest them at the stage ledge?
 

Nabster92

Member
Okay thanks for the advice. Do you usually chase your opponents off stage after sending them flying? I've been trying to use down airs to contest them but I find it rarely hits. Or do you usually contest them at the stage ledge?

I fight offstage every chance I get because that is by far where I do best. Even when I'm the one returning to stage I hope people come after me so I can turn things around on them. I like to jump out and stay in a threatening position to them as they're coming back waiting for them to press a button and then jump into them with a Luma n-air right after they do. When going for d-airs, I usually like going for luma's d-air more than rosa's since it's a consistent hitbox throughout instead of having 4 different hitboxes like rosa's and luma's d-air knockback is ridiculous and will pretty much kill at any percent if you hit them off stage with it. If you're going for a d-air you shouldn't telegraph things by jumping up and trying to fall into them with it unless it's a character like DK where you just need to get into a position above him when he's doing his up-b. I typically just wait close to the ledge and run off and fast fall d-air as soon as I see an opening to hit them for other characters.

For some characters like Dedede, you could also just wait at the ledge and ledge trump them immediately when they grab. Then don't b-air them and just get back on the stage. Since they can't really safely jump back onto the stage as easily as some characters, he'll be forced to just grab the ledge again or up-b past the ledge onto the stage. If they grab the ledge again, they won't have invincibility since you haven't hit them yet and you can just luma f-smash them to death. If they up-b on stage, you should be able to punish that appropriately as well at least with an up-smash.
 

FSLink

Banned
I'm not happy when the stage causes my character to go into a landing animation in the middle of an attack, but when the stage causes an SD that I can't do anything about, that's fucked up. Bowser takes a long time to turn his momentum around while in the fortress animation, especially after it finishes in the air. If I was in a tourney I would have saved the replay and called over a TO to dispute the match. Such a shit stage, I only take it in the hopes that it'll screw the other person over more than me.

Honestly you'd probably be laughed at for not banning the stage. :p I definitely ban Lylat when I'm using someone like Ness, but if I'm Pikachu or Mario, I don't since the platforms and the stage reducing camping works in my favor.


10991425_10153117178633827_5539061457922842293_n.jpg
Also I'm entering a Smash 1v1 tourney today at Kawaii Kon! Wish me luck guys.

http://www.twitch.tv/theodofaction Stream should be here.
 
Honestly you'd probably be laughed at for not banning the stage. :p I definitely ban Lylat when I'm using someone like Ness, but if I'm Pikachu or Mario, I don't since the platforms and the stage reducing camping works in my favor.



Also I'm entering a Smash 1v1 tourney today at Kawaii Kon! Wish me luck guys.

http://www.twitch.tv/theodofaction Stream should be here.

I'll multitwitch your shit with Aftershock, gotta support the GAF folks. :)

And now for the good part, anyone wanna play? :D
 
GGs Nabster, sorry I wasn't playing too good today. :( I gotta change some of Mario's customs, I disagree with some of them and I think they're outdated anyway.

Luma Warp is too good
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Anyone want to play?

Also, I dunno how I'm going to get my match in with Shamrock now that he's banned.

You can still communicate with him on Anther's Ladder through the GAF chat or straight PM'ing. Otherwise, maybe Karst could make an exception? :O

The two first ones seem unwieldy, though if PMs still work if one's banned, that could be a solution.
 
Training my new Super Mario version Peach Amiibo while I'm at work. Basically, just letting it fight my Marth Amiibo for 99 minutes haha.

I'm currently at 10 Amiibo (and being lent one Megaman Amiibo by my friend, to train him)... Little bastards are everywhere now.
 

TWILT

Banned
Uhhh, that was an odd DC, but what happens happens I guess. GGs Flux. My Pikachu performance was disappointing today, but the Shulk vs Robin matches were fun.

And that time I got the KO at the very last second felt great. :p
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Uhhh, that was an odd DC, but what happens happens I guess. GGs Flux. My Pikachu performance was disappointing today, but the Shulk vs Robin matches were fun.

And that time I got the KO at the very last second felt great. :p

I rage quit because I wasn't feeling Shulk anymore. Ha, no, my Internet just decided to drop out there, which is a shame since that was looking like another close one. GGs. I'm not that into Robin without customs, but (s)he's a really fun character to play with them equipped.

And yeah, that counter KO when the timer was exactly at 1 was pretty amazing.
 
I get into a lot of characters for just 2 days and then find someone else. I haven't figured out what to do with Toon Link's bombs or ROB's gyro other than just throw them around. Sometimes I throw a bomb upwards so I can throw someone into it or interrupt the recovery animation if I miss a grab, but that's about as strategic as it gets for me.
 

Boney

Banned
I freaking hate that little meat shield so much lol

Edit: I gotta go, I'll be back in 20 if you wanna keep at it

Gotta have my revenge against meat shield
 
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