TheSlySoul
Member
I figured the "Retro" character is save from judging about future games.
Ness was the retro pick for N64
Game and Watch was for GC
R.O.B. was for Wii
Duck Hunt is for Wii U/3DS
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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U POTD Thread 17: Smash 3DS Discussion @ OT PLS
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Ness was the retro pick for N64
Game and Watch was for GC
R.O.B. was for Wii
Duck Hunt is for Wii U/3DS
User 73706
Banned
So by Smash 7, Isaac can get in by pure virtue of being a retro pick, right?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Guys
i dun get it
The fact that Kirby already has his American eyebrows in the 3DS version; people were acting like they were new from that HD picture.
Ipsoclipso
Member
I still can't believe that Dark Pit is actually in the roster as a separate character, never knew Kid Icaraus is that popular, or maybe it's just Sakurai.
even thought he was conformed ages ago, his inclusion doesn't bother me, I'm more bothered that my favorite character Lucas and my favorite space animal Wolf are cut, and my mind is telling me that if they didn't made DP they could have at least brought back Lucas, even thought it doesn't work that way. I just hope they would be back as DLC but I doubt it :'(
even thought he was conformed ages ago, his inclusion doesn't bother me, I'm more bothered that my favorite character Lucas and my favorite space animal Wolf are cut, and my mind is telling me that if they didn't made DP they could have at least brought back Lucas, even thought it doesn't work that way. I just hope they would be back as DLC but I doubt it :'(
No, the point is he is also angry with Pit's abilities and not just Dark Pit's.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Well, had Ness not been on the roster in 64, I don't think there would have been a chance at all he'd be in it now. Once Smash got huge and basically required bigger names to be fighters, a character like Ness would have been passed over.
I think Wolf may have had better chances if he was a clone. He took as much effort to bring over as any other non-clone character, and I think that may have factored into him being cut. Why bring Wolf back when you can make a new character with the same effort?
Star Fox is a funny series. Despite having only like 2 critically acclaimed games a decade and a half ago, the series is still super well known and the characters are all recognizable. Which is why I think Wolf's biggest con was that he was too unique, meaning the effort to add him was more than he'd bring to the roster, sadly.
I pretty much knew Lucas was a one time show as soon as I saw him. Under no circumstances does Mother deserve more than one character, that series is just tiny and irrelevant. It might be loved, but it should not have the same character count as Metroid, Donkey Kong and Star Fox.
Pichu was pointless in Melee and was pointless to bring back. In a game with strict character roster rules, joke characters need to really be impressive or unique to hang around. Someone like Villager is more or less a joke character, but they work so well and are so unique they make Pichu look ridiculous.
Young Link is Toon Link, I'd argue he was never cut so he's still relevant.
Roy was a fan favorite and planned for Brawl, but his popularity waned over the years and bigger and better Fire Emblems were released. Awakening was probably the nail in Roy's coffin.
Mewtwo was cut for no good reason. God, probably the biggest "what the heck Sakurai" cut this series has ever had. He follows no patterns for cut characters at all, and doesn't even fit Sakurai's criteria for cutting a character...
Ice Climbers are not gone... just sitting this one on the bench until technology catches up. No use getting worked up over them, we'll see them again in 5 years or so.
Snake was cut for either licensing reasons or because he didn't fit in the roster at all. Metal Gear isn't relevant to Nintendo at all.
Ivysaur's only reason for existing was Pokemon trainer. Awkward middle evolutions are never remembered or important, they exist for like 2 hours in Pokemon and you never see them again. She couldn't stand alone at all.
Squirtle could stand alone, but bringing Charizard and Squirtle back without Ivysaur would have been awkward. He'd also make he roster too first gen heavy.
Ipsoclipso
Member
at the time of 64 release Ness was only 4 years old!
Smash 64 didn't have any retro characters
I really don't understand why Dixie Kong didn't make the roster given Sakurai's and Nintendo's process for character selection. DKCR was a massive success; restoring DK to his former glory and ended up one of the best selling core titles on the Wii. As well, Tropical Freeze was in development during the same time frame as SSB4 so that fits another one of their criteria. Dixie could have just been a Diddy clone with a hair recovery and guitar taunts
I'm satisfied with the roster but the DK crew deserves so much better guys :/
I'm satisfied with the roster but the DK crew deserves so much better guys :/
Jawmuncher
Member
Personally I feel we don't need another monkey for our 3rd DK rep if we get one.
Unless it's Lanky of course.
Unless it's Lanky of course.
Reading that is like preaching to the well-informed choir at this point.
I wish we got some explanation as to why Mewtwo was still cut though. Doesn't make sense besides "time constraints" If we do get character DLC though I imagine he would be first priority. Although thinking about it more with his previous statement saying that pulling assets from Melee is harder and more time consuming because the game is so old.
Edit:...actually no he does have data in Brawl so Idk.
I wish we got some explanation as to why Mewtwo was still cut though. Doesn't make sense besides "time constraints" If we do get character DLC though I imagine he would be first priority. Although thinking about it more with his previous statement saying that pulling assets from Melee is harder and more time consuming because the game is so old.
Edit:...actually no he does have data in Brawl so Idk.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, but for a third DK rep, I'd like to see Donkey Kong Jr. Not any character from Country.
Donkey Kong has a rich and important arcade history, but that's never been fairly represented in Smash, besides two items and a hilariously awful stage. Playing Smash Bros, you'd never know Donkey Kong is one of the oldest characters in the game.
Donkey Kong Jr could represent Donkey Kong's pre-Country past. Imagine switching between model and sprite seamlessly, swinging from vine specials. Maybe even throw in a Math reference into his moves.
Donkey Kong has a rich and important arcade history, but that's never been fairly represented in Smash, besides two items and a hilariously awful stage. Playing Smash Bros, you'd never know Donkey Kong is one of the oldest characters in the game.
Donkey Kong Jr could represent Donkey Kong's pre-Country past. Imagine switching between model and sprite seamlessly, swinging from vine specials. Maybe even throw in a Math reference into his moves.
Ipsoclipso
Member
I honestly doubt Ice Climbers will be back on Smash 5\6 for these reasons:
1-they are not relevant anymore(they will be more irrelevant by the time the new Smash is released)
2-they will not get any new game
3-they are already cut(if they started porting Smash 4 first, it could be hard to bring their data over from two generations ago)
4-Rosalina have similar mechanic to them(so they aren't unique as they were before)
5-they aren't even that popular(even popular characters like Mewtwo aren't brought back)
The Captain
Member
Sakurai bias! Three Kid Icarus reps and three stages in one?
Or maybe... he's trying to counteract claims of bias by making an awful Kid Icarus stage!
I got the Wind Waker HD Ganondorf bundle a full month before I got a Wii U. Don't let the lack of a Wii U stop you from getting the stuff you want.
I really wish I could share your optimism... I'm worried that because the next game(s?) will be using the material from this one, Ice Climbers won't be brought back.
Maybe an Ice Climber reboot could ensure that that would never happen. Get on it, Next Level Games!
Out of curiosity, does the issue of Kid Icarus: Uprising's quality ever get up between you and Andre? You two seem to have very different opinions on the game.
Lanky isn't a monkey.
OricWindstar
Member
Dixie is still my most wanted, but I'd be totally down for DKJr to make it in.
TheSlySoul
Member
Yeah, Ness could have been the same idea as Marth and Roy.
Still though, we can all agree Captain Falcon was lucky to get in the game when the F-Zero franchise was not dead.
Ice Climber is still one of the one off (we won't count the VS game for argument's sake) NES titles that Nintendo likes to reference. Wario Ware and NES Remix point to this. Other titles like Mach Rider don't even get this sort of treatment. They still work well as a NES rep.
balladofwindfishes
Member
1. They were never relevant. They're from the weakest/worst Nintendo game of that era.
2. Oh well? That hasn't really stopped lots of characters from returning or even being added.
3. They were near completed in Smash 4. Like Doc, they'll just port the half unfinished code and work from there.
4. Rosalina plays nothing like Ice Climbers. They aren't even similar, besides being 2 characters. Saying Rosalina plays like IC is like saying Lucario replaced Mewtwo...
5. And yet Doc is back after being cut and they actually were popular, one of the most played competitive characters.
Ice Climbers made the cut this game to be re-added, they made the cut to be re-added to Brawl, they'll make the cut to be re-added for Smash 5. The only reason they aren't in this game is technical based.
The Captain
Member
I want an Ice Climber reboot with coop and a four-player Balloon Fight reboot. Maybe they could be bundled together.
Ipsoclipso
Member
Ipsoclipso
Member
it could go either way, Sakurai had the perfect chance to bring back Mewtwo, one of the most popular Pokemon on both Smash and the Pokemon series, he was also starting to get relevant being the very first Pokemon to get a "Mega Evolution",but what was his response? "Bringing characters back from Melee is hard".
I honestly was surprised when IC were confirmed cut! I won't be if they didn't appear on Smash 5.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We don't know if Mewtwo is entirely cut. The rumors about Wii U exclusive characters as DLC on the 3DS + future DLC means Mewtwo's fate might not be entirely as sealed as you think.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Dark Pit is literally the worst addition to a Smash game. Ever. Period.
you misspelled 'cranky'
The Captain
Member
"But he has a different personality in Uprising! Clearly that warrants a recolor's playability!"
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Pichu was a thing in Melee.
Ipsoclipso
Member
yep I agree, but only because he's a clone, he would've been much better if he was a unique character, but nope Sakurai gotta go Sakurai. too bad he's either cut or staying as a clone in the next Smash.
Yes please.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I prefer him to Pit in Smash
Pit has a whiny, wimpy voice and the electric arm is better/cooler than the roller arm thing which looks silly.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, I'm feeling more and more discouraged about the Wii U stages.
It just seems that Sakurai is so insistent on installing some elaborate mechanic or minigame into seemingly every stage. We've already seen some of this in Smash 3DS (I'm looking at you, Magicant...), but it seems as if it's actually going to be worse in the Wii U version.
To preface, I'm perfectly content with simple stage hazards. However, many of the implementations Sakurai is making to the stages seem to border on minigames in which you're fighting the stage more than the other players. It's almost as if Sakurai feels he has to make some of these stages as wild and crazy as possible, given the fact that each will have a FD version. A few examples...
- Wiley Castle. This would be an incredible stage if not for the Yellow Devil. The moving platforms really add an interesting flair to this stage, yet the presence of the Yellow Devil repels quite a few competitive and casual players.
- Orbital Gate. I was hoping this would simply be a slightly revised Corneria or Sector Z. Instead, it's another traveling stage with multiple obstacles - hoping on Star Wings, dodging missiles, etc.
- Gamer. This stage is an actual minigame in Game and Wario, and unsurprisingly, players will have to concern themselves with dodging the beams of light, lest they receive damage and knockback.
- Pyrosphere. As Sakurai has implied, yet another stage boss is present here.
- Kalos Pokemon League. - A gorgeous looking stage that I was hoping would mirror the Pokemon Stadium stages in terms of its transformations. Instead, it looks like the stage will not only transform, but you'll instead have to dodge (or possibly fight) Pokemon sent out from each of the Elite 4 members.
- Gaur Plain. - Shulk's reveal trailer strongly implied that Metal Face would serve as a stage boss, yet he doesn't make an appearance in the 3DS version. Unfortunately, he is likely an exclusive stage boss for the Wii U version.
- Kirby's Minecart Stage. - Yet another new stage with more gimmicks. The description for this stage states that "this stage has some rules that are rare in the Smash Bros. series." Great.
Is it too much to ask for stages with a floating main platform, some smaller platforms above it, and...nothing else? Green Greens, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story, etc? Town and City and Windy Hill are the only new stages that meet these requirements, which are just 2 of the 19 already announced (new) stages - and one of those is just a slight modification of a Brawl stage. Most of these stages just seem like they should be in Mario Party, not Smash.
It just seems that Sakurai is so insistent on installing some elaborate mechanic or minigame into seemingly every stage. We've already seen some of this in Smash 3DS (I'm looking at you, Magicant...), but it seems as if it's actually going to be worse in the Wii U version.
To preface, I'm perfectly content with simple stage hazards. However, many of the implementations Sakurai is making to the stages seem to border on minigames in which you're fighting the stage more than the other players. It's almost as if Sakurai feels he has to make some of these stages as wild and crazy as possible, given the fact that each will have a FD version. A few examples...
- Wiley Castle. This would be an incredible stage if not for the Yellow Devil. The moving platforms really add an interesting flair to this stage, yet the presence of the Yellow Devil repels quite a few competitive and casual players.
- Orbital Gate. I was hoping this would simply be a slightly revised Corneria or Sector Z. Instead, it's another traveling stage with multiple obstacles - hoping on Star Wings, dodging missiles, etc.
- Gamer. This stage is an actual minigame in Game and Wario, and unsurprisingly, players will have to concern themselves with dodging the beams of light, lest they receive damage and knockback.
- Pyrosphere. As Sakurai has implied, yet another stage boss is present here.
- Kalos Pokemon League. - A gorgeous looking stage that I was hoping would mirror the Pokemon Stadium stages in terms of its transformations. Instead, it looks like the stage will not only transform, but you'll instead have to dodge (or possibly fight) Pokemon sent out from each of the Elite 4 members.
- Gaur Plain. - Shulk's reveal trailer strongly implied that Metal Face would serve as a stage boss, yet he doesn't make an appearance in the 3DS version. Unfortunately, he is likely an exclusive stage boss for the Wii U version.
- Kirby's Minecart Stage. - Yet another new stage with more gimmicks. The description for this stage states that "this stage has some rules that are rare in the Smash Bros. series." Great.
Is it too much to ask for stages with a floating main platform, some smaller platforms above it, and...nothing else? Green Greens, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story, etc? Town and City and Windy Hill are the only new stages that meet these requirements, which are just 2 of the 19 already announced (new) stages - and one of those is just a slight modification of a Brawl stage. Most of these stages just seem like they should be in Mario Party, not Smash.
theprodigy
Member
Orbital Gate/Kalos Pokemon League don't look like they have major hazards....?
but yeah some of them are pretty over the top (looking at you, Yellow Devil and Flying Man on the 3DS)
but yeah some of them are pretty over the top (looking at you, Yellow Devil and Flying Man on the 3DS)
The Bankslammer
Member
I really think Ω mode is supposed to be the solution for fair stages; in the creators eyes, those are what you play for serious matches. Misguided as it is, the belief seems to be that since we have all those options, it frees up the opportunity to go a little crazier with the normal stages. It's similar to how we saw some Nintendo games get a little harder when the super guide became a thing. That's all my guess anyway.
I don't have much hope for Wii U stages either. We do at least have Halberd. Orbital gate might still be ok? Pilotwings seemed ok unless I missed something obtrusive. Animal Crossing world seems not bad.
Note the targeting reticle in the screenshot below. Players will have to constantly dodge and avoid it throughout this portion of the stage. I'm trying to be hopeful that the Kalos Pokemon League stage won't have any invasive minigames or mechanics, but I'm not very optimistic.
The Bankslammer
Member
the reticle is from the original game itself. it doesn't move, it only serves to identify the missiles.
i'm not saying i think it'll be a neutral stage. it'll probably have laser fire and jumping around onto different ships and whatnot. this just seems like jumping to conclusions.
The Captain
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
Neither kid Icarus or fire emblem are dead series
theprodigy
Member
ironically, Fire Emblem has never been more alive
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
FD, Battlefield, Smashville, Town and City, Halberd. We've reached Melee! Hopefully Pilot Wings is okay.
I just can't get over the fact they are SO CLOSE in terms of stage options. A hazards off option plus platform variants of Omega mode would make this by far the best Smash game ever in terms of stage options. But... nope.
Isn't Awakening the best selling FE game now?
The Captain
Member
Sakurai says 25 years until a follow-up to Uprising and Awakening might've been the last in the series.
Maybe I should've made the links in the images more apparent.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
I want to see a comic/drawing about a friendship between Lucina and Dark Pit.
lol; When did he say this? O:
The Captain
Member
It is now, but consider its standing when Smash was being developed.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
250,000 would be like the worst selling FE game. Even Shadow Dragon sold better than that.
This is absolutely what is needed. A mode similar to omega mode that takes the FD version of the stage, but with a randomized platform arrangement above the stage.
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