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[balladofwindfishes]

They'll definitely be more than canceled vets for DLC. This is Smash Brothers.

As for Ridley I always have hopes but I feel like Sakurai's strong control for the franchise and his enjoyment at trolling the fanbase means Ridley isn't playable. There is one main reason I want someone other than Sakurai to take over and that's because consistently ignoring the such a strong want of a fanbase is just wrong.

I really don't think under a different director that Ridley would be in the game if Sakurai won't put him in. The same issues apply no matter the director of the game. And another director might be fine with Ridley as just a trophy instead of the actual decent treatment he's had all these game compared to other non-playable characters.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

They'll definitely be more than canceled vets for DLC. This is Smash Brothers.

As for Ridley I always have hopes but I feel like Sakurai's strong control for the franchise and his enjoyment at trolling the fanbase means Ridley isn't playable. There is one main reason I want someone other than Sakurai to take over and that's because consistently ignoring the such a strong want of a fanbase is just wrong.

I think Ridley just comes down to a fundamental disagreement between Sakurai and fans on what Ridley is.

Sakurai sees him as a giant monster, while Bowser, Dedede, and Ganondorf are villains with personalities.

Not saying he's right to think that, but it doesn't seem like he views Ridley as anything other than Metroid's Godzilla.

 

[IntelliHeath]

i need more salt ):



I'm not going to get a golden sun stage/character either, which is so upsetting.

I'm more surprised with lack of Golden Sun Assist trophy.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

I really don't think under a different director that Ridley would be in the game if Sakurai won't put him in. The same issues apply no matter the director of the game. And another director might be fine with Ridley as just a trophy instead of the actual decent treatment he's had all these game compared to other non-playable characters.

More fan favorite characters = more money. Which is what so many game developers seem to care about these days.

If you include characters like Chorus Kids, Geno, Ridley, Mewtwo, Master Chief, Snake, Shadow the Hedgehog, Shrek, Paper Mario, Goku, Naruto, Dante, Inklings...

Sakurai sees him as a giant monster, while Bowser, Dedede, and Ganondorf are villains with personalities.

Sakurai also sees Ganondorf as Captain Falcon. Lol

 

[IntelliHeath]

After the Wii U version comes out I'm going to make a comprehensive crow eating thread. Then you'll all see.

crow eating thread for what?

 

[Cse]

I think the 3DS version was a little rushed, while the Wii U version doesn't appear to be.

What characteristics of the 3DS version led you to this conclusion?

 

[Kjellson]

That's not onyx!

Too big.

 

[Berordn]

What characteristics of the 3DS version led you to this conclusion?

a bunch of missing features that used to be standard?

 

[Cse]

a bunch of missing features that used to be standard?

Such as? I don't have the game yet and have only spent a few hours with my roommate's copy. I've raged hard over the inability to lower the frequency with which items appear, but what else is missing?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What characteristics of the 3DS version led you to this conclusion?

- The funky character select screen which is probably the worst designed menu Smash Bros has ever had. There's no order or rhythm to it. Finding characters is basically down to knowing where they are already or hunting around until you spot them. Some costumes are impossible to see on the lower screen (Ganondorf and Samus have this problem real bad)

- The lack of stages and the lack of new stages for core series like Metroid, DK and Starfox. 2/3 of which we have confirmed Wii U stages for. We also have retro and new stages confirmed for Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem, pointing to every series having at least one new stage and one retro stage, like Brawl.

- The game lacks features like item frequency toggle, custom smash, etc, that have been in the series in some cases since the first game. And they're in Smash Run and Classic, so the modes exist in the game.

- Kind of poorly thought out or rushed feeling challenges. A lot of grindy ones or ones that don't really require you to do anything. Or worse, are entirely luck based.

- The requirement that the game be out when it was, otherwise it either came out after the Wii U or the Wii U was delayed into 2015, basically killing the Wii U for Christmas this year.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Such as? I don't have the game yet and have only spent a few hours with my roommate's copy. I've raged hard over the inability to lower the frequency with which items appear, but what else is missing?

There's no Stamina or Special Smash...

Except in Smash Run. I've ran into Giant Smash, AND Stamina Smash. If there's a cut feature, it's probably included in Smash Run. It's really odd, actually. Or in All-Star Mode. All-Star removes hazards from certain stages while still keeping them their normal formation, notable no WarioWare mini-games.

That being said I find the new Classic to be pretty fun with better risk/rewards to it, and Smash Run is really fun for me, so I'm quite happy with the purchase for what I paid.

 

[Ryce]

We also have retro and new stages confirmed for Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem, pointing to every series having at least one new stage and one retro stage, like Brawl.

That's a huuuuge stretch. There's absolutely no evidence suggesting that.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

That's a huuuuge stretch. There's absolutely no evidence suggesting that.

You really think Fire Emblem of all series would get 2 stages and Donkey Kong stuck with 75m as its only level or something ridiculous like that? Mario is the only series on the 3DS with a retro stage and a new stage (several), and yet for the Wii U we know of 2 fairly minor series in Smash having 2 levels.

No, the Wii U version will have the same stage distribution as Brawl, if not more. There's no reason to think it won't.

 

[IntelliHeath]

You really think Fire Emblem of all series would get 2 stages and Donkey Kong stuck with 75m as its only level or something ridiculous like that? Mario is the only series on the 3DS with a retro stage and a new stage (several), and yet for the Wii U we know of 2 fairly minor series in Smash having 2 levels.

No, the Wii U version will have the same stage distribution as Brawl, if not more. There's no reason to think it won't.

Fire Emblem have 4 playable characters so of course, they are going to give them two stages.

I'm pretty sure that DKC is going to get a brand new stage. Same for Yoshi and Kirby. I have a feeling that we are not getting Duck Hunt Pond tho.

I think you are reaching too high but It's possible tho.

 

[The Captain]

I honestly think Sakurai's doing a fine job with the characters, with only a few questionable decisions here and there that really don't amount to much.

He's not keeping Ridley out because he's trolling the fans, he's keeping Ridley out because he doesn't think it would be easy to do/worth it.

I think that would probably be impossible. [laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]

I'm glad Sakurai isn't completely controlled by what the fans want. Fans want a lot of things, and not everything they want is good.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I'm glad Sakurai isn't completely controlled by what the fans want. Fans want a lot of things, and not everything they want is good.

People hating on Lucina and Dark Pit and complaining Sakurai doesn't listen to fans are actually being a bit hypocritical, because both of them were very popular within their own series. And that's the truth, look at any, say, Anime/Manga Popularity Poll, and usually the edgiest character will always be on top, followed by the main characters, and maybe one surprise. If you yell at Sakurai to listen to fans, don't get upset when he gives us who the average person finds to be the coolest.

- The lack of stages and the lack of new stages for core series like Metroid, DK and Starfox. 2/3 of which we have confirmed Wii U stages for. We also have retro and new stages confirmed for Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem, pointing to every series having at least one new stage and one retro stage, like Brawl.

I'm interested to see a 3DS Retro Stage appear in the Wii U Version...like Wario and Pikmin only have one choice. Will WarioWare and Distant Planet be in the Wii U Version as well?


Oh, and I actually sort of think the Challenges work for the 3DS. Yes, most of them are "do so-and-so with every character", but it sort of seems designed with the pick-up-and-play mentality of Smash 3DS, where when you're on a quick trip, you pick up the game and do a quick round of Classic. I think though people naturally want to do them ASAP, so they come across as grind.

 

[Ryce]

You really think Fire Emblem of all series would get 2 stages and Donkey Kong stuck with 75m as its only level or something ridiculous like that? Mario is the only series on the 3DS with a retro stage and a new stage (several), and yet for the Wii U we know of 2 fairly minor series in Smash having 2 levels.

No, the Wii U version will have the same stage distribution as Brawl, if not more. There's no reason to think it won't.

Who said anything about 75m? Donkey Kong will probably get a new DKC Returns stage on Wii U. Animal Crossing is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, and Fire Emblem has four playable characters in this game, so I don't quite know what you mean about them being "minor."

There's nothing at this point in time to suggest that every franchise will be getting a new and returning stage in the Wii U version of the game. You're getting way ahead of yourself there. Sakurai wants both versions of the game to be comparable experiences -- there aren't going to be 34 3DS stages and 60 Wii U stages.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Fire Emblem have 4 playable characters so of course, they are going to give them two stages.

I'm pretty sure that DKC is going to get a brand new stage. Same for Yoshi and Kirby. I have a feeling that we are not getting Duck Hunt Pond tho.

I think you are reaching too high but It's possible tho.

I don't think we'll get a Duck Hunt or ROB level, but it doesn't seem to be a stretch that we'd get the same levels as Brawl, or more. We've already seen Kirby, Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing get 2 stages. All three only had one in the 3DS. Metroid, Wario and Star Fox have a level, they don't in the 3DS. I think Norfair and Lylat Cruise will both return. I think Magicant will be on the Wii U (giving Ness 2 levels).

The only rational I've seen for this extreme pessimism towards the Wii U version is the 3DS version, a version already scaled back, has very few stages and they're distributed all weird, but that's not a good enough reason for me to be concerned, especially when everything we've seen has made the Wii U version look like the definite version.

Who said anything about 75m? Donkey Kong will probably get a new DKC Returns stage on Wii U. Animal Crossing is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises, and Fire Emblem has four playable characters in this game, so I don't quite know what you mean about them being "minor."

There's nothing at this point in time to suggest that every franchise will be getting a new and returning stage in the Wii U version of the game. You're getting way ahead of yourself there. Sakurai wants both versions of the game to be comparable experiences -- there aren't going to be 34 3DS stages and 60 Wii U stages.

I just brought up 75M because I see people believe DK won't receive a new level, and 75M is the only retro stage left assuming they can't bring back Rumble Falls because of different physics and won't repeat retro stages between versions (which I don't believe either. I'm pretty sure we'll see at least Distant Planet)

 

[Kinsei]

Fire Emblem have 4 playable characters so of course, they are going to give them two stages.

I'm pretty sure that DKC is going to get a brand new stage. Same for Yoshi and Kirby. I have a feeling that we are not getting Duck Hunt Pond tho.

I think you are reaching too high but It's possible tho.

I really want a Duck Hunt stage. They really need to make at least one Smash game that has a stage for every character.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

My pessimism subsided thanks to Great Cave Offensive.

Halberd was shown alongside 3DS Kongo Jungle during the Direct and, thus, everyone thought it'd suffer the same fate...the lone, old representative for the Kirby Series. But now we see that's not true, and that gives me hope.

 

[Okrag]

I think that Hogan's Alley could be made into a stage pretty easily.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I think that Hogan's Alley could be made into a stage pretty easily.

The Tower of Smash rumor mentions that one level, Shooting Gallery...

I think that's supposed to be a stage that incorporates elements of multiple light-gun games, which would be the direction I think Sakurai will actually go. I think it'd work better than a simple Duck Hunt/Hogan Alley level.

Also, PLEASE INCLUDE MUSIC FROM TIN STAR!

But yeah, for the Hogan Alley's stage, imagine it's set up like the game...different targets pop up. If you smash a bad guy target, you're healed, but if you smash a good guy target, you're hurt.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

The Tower of Smash rumor mentions that one level, Shooting Gallery...

I think that's supposed to be a stage that incorporates elements of multiple light-gun games, which would be the direction I think Sakurai will actually go. I think it'd work better than a simple Duck Hunt/Hogan Alley level.

Also, PLEASE INCLUDE MUSIC FROM TIN STAR!

But yeah, for the Hogan Alley's stage, imagine it's set up like the game...different targets pop up. If you smash a bad guy target, you're healed, but if you smash a good guy target, you're hurt.

I could see them doing something like the Paper Mario stage with it transiting between all the light gun games.

If there is a Duck Hunt stage, they could have the hunter shooting randomly on the screen or having the 8 bit ducks flying around doing damage to players.

 

[Jawmuncher]

The Tower of Smash rumor mentions that one level, Shooting Gallery...

I think that's supposed to be a stage that incorporates elements of multiple light-gun games, which would be the direction I think Sakurai will actually go. I think it'd work better than a simple Duck Hunt/Hogan Alley level.

Also, PLEASE INCLUDE MUSIC FROM TIN STAR!

But yeah, for the Hogan Alley's stage, imagine it's set up like the game...different targets pop up. If you smash a bad guy target, you're healed, but if you smash a good guy target, you're hurt.

Tin Star is the real WTF character we deserve.
Not this sticking to NES stuff. Sakurai needs to switch it up.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I think people need to just give it up. The Wii U version won't have additional characters waiting to be unlocked, and any DLC will likely be 6+ months out, assuming we get any at all.

And, if we do ever get DLC, it's more than likely going to be Lucas, Wolf, and perhaps Mewtwo.

I really don't think we'll ever see Ridley, Chorus Kids, Impa, or Dixie Kong - they've all been nothing more than unsubstantiated rumors.

I'd agree with you, but recently Nintendo has done very well with their DLC. Both Mario Golf: World Tour and Mario Kart 8 have DLC that bring new characters to their franchises.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Tin Star is the real WTF character we deserve.
Not this sticking to NES stuff. Sakurai needs to switch it up.

I would die with joy if that happened.

But I don't think Nintendo even owns the character anymore.

 

[jnWake]

I think the 3DS version was a little rushed, while the Wii U version doesn't appear to be.

Weirdly enough, I think the 3DS version has benefitted the Wii U in some ways. For example, I think the 3DS limitations to the engine are what allow the Wii U version to (supossedly) run in 1080p @60fps. If the game was built for Wii U, I bet it'd be 720p.

The graphical polish of the Wii U version makes it seem not rushed, but we have no idea about other modes and stuff in it, so we can't be certain!

EDIT: Regarding characters, I think it's pretty telling of the fanbase that we get a new game with 49 (51) characters, yet people focus on one that got in (Dark Pit) and one that didn't (Ridley) to complain, endlessly.

 

[munchie64]

I'm pretty sure the tournament stages will be a decent amount. There are already nearly as many as the 3DS version. Those + a few more that will obviously be in + retro stages + omega versions should definitely be enough.

 

[Jawmuncher]

EDIT: Regarding characters, I think it's pretty telling of the fanbase that we get a new game with 49 (51) characters, yet people focus on one that got in (Dark Pit) and one that didn't (Ridley) to complain, endlessly.

I'm straight in the middle for the ridley debate. Cool if he got in but not going to push for him either. My only issue with Dark Pit is his design. Lucina at least is a different gender and look from marth. Pit is just a different color which I know is because of the game he was in which I loved. But it still just bothers me that he made it in. Since he really could have just been a alt like Alph. As odd as it is to say, I would take one less character over him taking a spot.

 

[The Captain]

I'm straight in the middle for the ridley debate. Cool if he got in but not going to push for him either. My only issue with Dark Pit is his design. Lucina at least is a different gender and look from marth. Pit is just a different color which I know is because of the game he was in which I loved. But it still just bothers me that he made it in. Since he really could have just been a alt like Alph. As odd as it is to say, I would take one less character over him taking a spot.

Yeah, I completely agree with this. Dark Pit wouldn't be as much of a problem if he really looked different. Toon Link looks quite different from Link, and Falco looks quite different from Fox. Dark Pit is a recolor. For that reason, I prefer Lucina to Dark Pit, even if she isn't as different from her source character gameplay-wise.

 

[Kinsei]

Fuck Captain Toad, Captain Toadette for DLC!

 

[Clefargle]

After the Wii U version comes out I'm going to make a comprehensive crow eating thread. Then you'll all see.

I second Heath, who will be eating crow?

 

[DICKS AHOY]

What are people going off for assuming Magicant and the retro-version of Mute City aren't in the Wii U version? Know we don't have confirmation either way but it seems to me fairly likely like with Punch-Out/Xenoblade/Mega Man as compensation for not getting more than one new stage their sole 'new' stage gets shared between both versions.

Onett's probably in the Wii U version as a vet stage (like there will probably be for Port Town) because it's easier to port Brawl stages up to SSB4 than it is to port them down to the 3DS, and Mother/F-Zero's seniority justify them having two stages. I'd be weirded out if they only got vet stages in the Wii U version while their original stages will stay on the 3DS version.

EDIT: I wanted Ridley more than her, but Dixie not being in SSB4 feels infinitely stranger to me than him getting passed again. She was planned for Brawl (as part of Diddy's moveset, but still), is part of a series that had an enormous resurgence after Brawl and the last major game she was in started development before SSB4 did, which going off Pikmin 3/Lost World content it isn't too out there to assume Sakurai communicated to Retro Studios about what they were up to when deciding on stuff. The stuff going against Ridley stacks up way higher in comparison.

Regardless, I really like SSB4's newcomer list and I'd honestly argue even with Dark Pit it's the best after the original game's. Only problem with SSB4's roster are the absolutely brutal veteran cuts.

 

[The Captain]

I second Heath, who will be eating crow?

 

[theprodigy]

Fuck Captain Toad, Captain Toadette for DLC!

dunno about this "Captain" Toadette business, but having Toadette instead of (Captain) Toad would be hilarious

Spoiler

course it's infinitely more likely she would just be an alt for Toad, but eh

 

[Kensho]

I'm straight in the middle for the ridley debate. Cool if he got in but not going to push for him either. My only issue with Dark Pit is his design. Lucina at least is a different gender and look from marth. Pit is just a different color which I know is because of the game he was in which I loved. But it still just bothers me that he made it in. Since he really could have just been a alt like Alph. As odd as it is to say, I would take one less character over him taking a spot.

What? why does the gender matter? And she looks the same!!! I don't like the addition of any of the clones from a fanboy point of view, but they are there because they take less time... But Lucina? LUCINA IS THE SAME GAMEPLAY. Dark Pit has slight changes and a Final smash cloned from a different character at least that takes him to the uniqueness level of doctor mario.

Lucina was an alt like Female and Male Robin, but Sakurai felt like adding a block to the roster. But I guess you don't care about the gameplay in a fighting game, just the costumes.

I am happy with the roster and how many characters we got, but it also made me realize a lot of fan choices and favorites were left behind in the process, and that's not a good thing either. Because it's not only Ridley, it's Ridley, Isaac, Dixie/K Rool, Lucas, Wolf (the only unique starfox character), Snake, Ice fucking Climbers and CUTSCENES, that he removed because people could see them on youtube. I can see trophies on youtube too, is he going to remove them?


Sigh, I don't want to sound angry with the game, I like it, for a cut version of the Wii U true one that it is, the things that will be in both are awesome and Smashrun is fun (even without online and with completely random unchangable final battle) but all the people who complain about the complainers... What are you? Defending the huge company Nintendo is? If you are always just happy with what they release ignoring the things they didn't and could, then you are as wrong as the people that won't buy it because Ridley isn't in.


Also I want to say how fucking awesome Miis are, with some attacks from their huge pool being new (which I didn't expect) for their A and B moves, and even if it kind of lacks some designs, with an awesome clothes and weapons collection too.

 

[Kinsei]

dunno about this "Captain" Toadette business, but having Toadette instead of (Captain) Toad would be hilarious

Spoiler

course it's infinitely more likely she would just be an alt for Toad, but eh

Captain Toadette was revealed in the new Captain Toad trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BapVf3fVN6Y&feature=youtu.be

I know if Toad gets in she'll just be an alt, but it's nice to dream that Toad will be the alt instead.

 

[Jawmuncher]

What? why does the gender matter? And she looks the same!!! I don't like the addition of any of the clones from a fanboy point of view, but they are there because they take less time... But Lucina? LUCINA IS THE SAME GAMEPLAY. Dark Pit has slight changes and a Final smash cloned from a different character at least that takes him to the uniqueness level of doctor mario.

Lucina was an alt like Female and Male Robin, but Sakurai felt like adding a block to the roster. But I guess you don't care about the gameplay in a fighting game, just the costumes.

I am happy with the roster and how many characters we got, but it also made me realize a lot of fan choices and favorites were left behind in the process, and that's not a good thing either. Because it's not only Ridley, it's Ridley, Isaac, Dixie/K Rool, Lucas, Wolf (the only unique starfox character), Snake, Ice fucking Climbers and CUTSCENES, that he removed because people could see them on youtube. I can see trophies on youtube too, is he going to remove them?


Sigh, I don't want to sound angry with the game, I like it, for a cut version of the Wii U true one that it is, the things that will be in both are awesome and Smashrun is fun (even without online and with completely random unchangable final battle) but all the people who complain about the complainers... What are you? Defending the huge company Nintendo is? If you are always just happy with what they release ignoring the things they didn't and could, then you are as wrong as the people that won't buy it because Ridley isn't in.


Also I want to say how fucking awesome Miis are, with some attacks from their huge pool being new (which I didn't expect) for their A and B moves, and even if it kind of lacks some designs, with an awesome clothes and weapons collection too.

My point of view is purely from a character design standpoint.
Being a different gender changes things being a different color does not.
Dark Pit has the staff. In KIU he's awesome i'm not denying that though.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i dig having variant versions of characters, be it functional or aesthetic

i'd be game for more clones as relatively easy character dlc

 

[The Captain]

Sakurai calls us out on complaining about clones.

This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”

Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.

Could you please leave it to me to select [characters] with man-hours and costs in mind? However you look at it, the game is a great bargain buy as a result.

 

[theprodigy]

Captain Toadette was revealed in the new Captain Toad trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BapVf3fVN6Y&feature=youtu.be

I know if Toad gets in she'll just be an alt, but it's nice to dream that Toad will be the alt instead.

oh I see......


Toadette gets a game before Daisy does #staylosing

 

[The Bankslammer]

But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.

holy shit ahahahaha

 

[Anth0ny]

Sakurai calls us out on complaining about clones.

LMAO

 

[J@hranimo]

Sakurai calls us out on complaining about clones.

Damn! He called

Spoiler

some of

us children!

 

[munchie64]

Sakurai calls us out on complaining about clones.

If this becomes a thread... Well it's not gonna be fun.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Sakurai calls us out on complaining about clones.

haha damn

I love Sakurai.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I'm only opposed to clones if it's either literally the same character in a different costume (so Dr. Mario fits in this rather than Dark Pit who *is* a different character, though he gets a pass since he lets you play with Mario's melee moveset essentially) or if it's a way of quickly working in a long awaited character like Ganondorf with a ton of moveset potential, who as a direct result gets mostly stuck with that cloned moveset for the rest of time. This nearly happened with Wario becoming a slow Mario clone in Melee, which thankfully never happened.

Clones like Falco or Lucina are a-okay to me since they're popular characters and it makes total sense in the context of their games they'd be very similar to their counterparts (Fox and Marth in this case).

 

[theprodigy]

If this becomes a thread... Well it's not gonna be fun.

If I see one of you guys make a thread on this.....

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah well usually when a crappy meal like Pit being all white meat doesn't mean you use different seasoning and give your guest the same meal filled with dark meat. Meaning Dark Pit.

 

[The Captain]

Captain Toadette was revealed in the new Captain Toad trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BapVf3fVN6Y&feature=youtu.be

I know if Toad gets in she'll just be an alt, but it's nice to dream that Toad will be the alt instead.

Woah, is that big bird wearing a Mario Land feather on his head?

My point of view is purely from a character design standpoint.
Being a different gender changes things being a different color does not.
Dark Pit has the staff. In KIU he's awesome i'm not denying that though.

I think character design is important. Super Smash Bros. is a series about Nintendo history, so I think a really diverse set of characters is great.