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Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra

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R

Rice-Eater

Member
SupaNaab said:
Just wanted to expand on a change for my character Viper:

• If hit during start up of Burn Kick, C. Viper is considered grounded and is open to full combo.

This is purely to curb mashing in blockstrings. Previously Viper had her EX Seismo become throwable because it was being mashed during blockstrings. In exchange Viper players were given a throw invincible FPTK. The problem is that instead of using the FPTK, Viper players (and boy do I abuse this) preferred to just mash a burnkick while blocking. It was extremely rare to be punished for it because Viper is airborne if she is hit and otherwise its safe or a knockdown and meterless. This change will still beat all walkup throw attempts but Vipers will be less willing to do it. EX Seismo and EX Burn Kick might be more preferrable now but both are highly punishable. Otherwise we need the standard two meters for a safe FPTK FADC.

What didn't change was SJC Burn Kick. If you hit Viper out of a SJC Burnkick she's airborne and will not eat a combo.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm excited for this change only because it stops Viper playing from spamming burn kick as a reversal with little fear. Two matches I remember most when thinking about this move. Tokido vs Latif in top 8 at EVO 2011 and Justin vs Krone in GF at FR 2012. After knockdowns, Tokido would pressure Krone with lows and when he BK, Tokido option selected with DP. He gets 80 damage and a knockdown without good follow up pressure and Latif was more then willing to take it as he refused to stop going for it.

With Justin vs Krone, Justin repeatedly hit Krone out of BK with dive kicks and Krone just laughed it off and kept doing it over and over and over. Apparently taking 60 damage and a reset didn't bother Krone at all as he'd rather reversal BK all day rather than block. Now if they get hit with a counter hit into full combo, that might actually make Viper players block a little more because they no longer get safe on block reversals.

AutumnAve said:
What a weird day that was. I downloaded AE as soon as it dropped, and it seemed like all of PSN had that Yun tech down cold.
Click to expand...

Well Yun is a easy character to play. Certain characters like him, Cammy, or Seth can be taken quite far in a much shorter amount of time then most characters because they have easy links and a vortex to continually apply pressure. Trying to learn Guy or Gen will probably be a nightmare unless you're a top player already who just has the talent to learn anybody very quickly.

Take me for example. I played Passive Assassin's Ibuki in endless a while back. I was struggling mightily with my main, Evil Ryu. So I switched to Yun and Ibuki and only loss 1 match in the next dozen or so matches where I only used them two. I do play Yun quite often but I went 2-0 with Cammy even though I don't play her at all. I just remember what I see from others who play her and tried applying it when I played her and did good enough to win.
 
P

Passive Assassin

Member
Rice-Eater said:
Honestly I'm excited for this change only because it stops Viper playing from spamming burn kick as a reversal with little fear. Two matches I remember most when thinking about this move. Tokido vs Latif in top 8 at EVO 2011 and Justin vs Krone in GF at FR 2012. After knockdowns, Tokido would pressure Krone with lows and when he BK, Tokido option selected with DP. He gets 80 damage and a knockdown without good follow up pressure and Latif was more then willing to take it as he refused to stop going for it.

With Justin vs Krone, Justin repeatedly hit Krone out of BK with dive kicks and Krone just laughed it off and kept doing it over and over and over. Apparently taking 60 damage and a reset didn't bother Krone at all as he'd rather reversal BK all day rather than block. Now if they get hit with a counter hit into full combo, that might actually make Viper players block a little more because they no longer get safe on block reversals.



Well Yun is a easy character to play. Certain characters like him, Cammy, or Seth can be taken quite far in a much shorter amount of time then most characters because they have easy links and a vortex to continually apply pressure. Trying to learn Guy or Gen will probably be a nightmare unless you're a top player already who just has the talent to learn anybody very quickly.

Take me for example. I played Passive Assassin's Ibuki in endless a while back. I was struggling mightily with my main, Evil Ryu. So I switched to Yun and Ibuki and only loss 1 match in the next dozen or so matches where I only used them two. I do play Yun quite often but I went 2-0 with Cammy even though I don't play her at all. I just remember what I see from others who play her and tried applying it when I played her and did good enough to win.
Click to expand...

I was fraay :[
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Rice-Eater said:
Honestly I'm excited for this change only because it stops Viper playing from spamming burn kick as a reversal with little fear. Two matches I remember most when thinking about this move. Tokido vs Latif in top 8 at EVO 2011 and Justin vs Krone in GF at FR 2012. After knockdowns, Tokido would pressure Krone with lows and when he BK, Tokido option selected with DP. He gets 80 damage and a knockdown without good follow up pressure and Latif was more then willing to take it as he refused to stop going for it.

With Justin vs Krone, Justin repeatedly hit Krone out of BK with dive kicks and Krone just laughed it off and kept doing it over and over and over. Apparently taking 60 damage and a reset didn't bother Krone at all as he'd rather reversal BK all day rather than block. Now if they get hit with a counter hit into full combo, that might actually make Viper players block a little more because they no longer get safe on block reversals.
Click to expand...


yeah, screw Viper. It did get annoying watching them just rely heavily on BK or ex seismo on wakeup. But it has been satisfying seeing them get deservedly blown-up because of it as the other top players wised up :D Itazan match has to be one of the best matches in this year's Evo
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Kind of mixed on the *proposed* Honda changes, but I think overall he would come out on the positive side.

- Increased damage on far standing Heavy Punch.
Not bad. Good anti air but I dont think as reliable as jab headbutt
- More push back on block for Light Punch Sumo Headbutt.
I think this was designed for the Sim and Chun matchups, since those are big time punishable (Chun esp with Ultra/Super).
- Less push back on block for Heavy Punch Sumo Headbutt.
I think this was designed for the shoto and hawk matchups, since they can eat those for free chip damage without a good way to punish. Absolutely makes sense.
- EX Ochio (command throw) given invincibility frames.
Good. I thought they were going to fix the input though, so that autocorrect ex HB doesn't accidentally result in EX ochio. Well, at least this give an incentive to use it in the tick throw game, which not a lot of Hondas are doing ATM.
- Slightly increased hit stun and hurt box on standing Heavy Kick.
Good. Why was Honda at a disadvantage on hit? It was his only move that was negative on hit and his consensus bnb ender, so sometimes it wouldn't be worth it to throw it out. I would have liked for this move to be super cancellable though instead of the chop.
- Orochi Break (Ultra 2) back to 720 motion. Increased range.
I'm so used to U1 now, that I'll have to practice hands fadc ultra again. Not sure if it can be jumped out of though, but it does get some functionality back thankfully.
- Reduced start up time on Super Killer Head Ram (Super).
Would have rather seen this done to Ultra 1.

Would also like to see j.MP reverted back to the SSF4 hitbox, but these are solid changes for Honda.

oops, forgot another one:
- Sumo Splash -2 on block
Looking at the frame data, I assume they mean roundhouse butt slam, because all other versions are -2. I'm indifferent to this. I don't typically throw those out, but I might start using it now to get used to it.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
Venfayth said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it was that low. I'm actually surprised it's that high.
Click to expand...

This is the lowest pay out ever for the winner of SF4 in the SF4 era. And that's because the pay out is distributed more evenly instead of being so top heavy. Infact Daigo won more back in 2009 during the first SF4 tournament at EVO. It was the first fighting game tournament to break 1000 players(1040 to be exact) and the pay out was still 70/20/10 so he got over 7k for winning back then. And he got over 10k in 2010 when SF4 had over 1600 players and still only payed out to top 3.

With Xian only getting 33% of the total pot, it's no surprise he only made 5600 bucks(give or take) even though the pot is much larger than it was back in 2009. The good is that getting 5th or 7th place still gets you a nice chunk of change for placing so high in a 1000+ man tournament. The minus is that we can't really brag about how much you get for winning a 1000+ man tournament when the winner isn't getting a 5 figure pay out or is even close to it.
 
V

Vice

Member
My main girl rose finally got ex spiral buffed. I hope the changes for U1 are decent. Tiem to start playing AE again.
 
F

FlyFaster

Member
Karsius said:
I heard that Xian only won 5.5k for wininng AE Evo. I thought the payout was much higher than that?
Click to expand...

I read it was something like $7k, either way it's straight up embarrassing for the "worlds biggest fighting game tournament."


Real prize money, i.e. large payouts, is what helped make body building and poker take off. Everyone who says that more money isn't what's needed int he fgc or that it will ruin it is crazy.
 
V

Vice

Member
AutumnAve said:
Would any positive change make Rose players switch from satellites? Just curious.
Click to expand...

In a few matchups sure but overall not really. The ability punish moves does less for Rose than controlling the pacing and spacing of a match with orbs.

I'd prefer a change to be able to be combo'd into like soul reflect FADC U1. That would likely get more people to use it as well since right now U1, outside of some very meter intensive setups, is strictly for punishing.


Edit: I'm interested in learning a new character while waiting for Ae2013. I've already played Honda, Rose and Adon to death. Any suggestions? I adore great normals and grabs.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
kevo_huevo said:
- EX Ochio (command throw) given invincibility frames.
Click to expand...

Well, that sucks. No more safe jumping Honda when he has meter. I hope it's only throw invincibility and not strike, because that's pretty dumb.

Edit: Yo, just realized these aren't official! What a relief, cause I see a lot of loony stuff in the dropbox file.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Vice said:
In a few matchups sure but overall not really. The ability punish moves does less for Rose than controlling the pacing and spacing of a match with orbs.

I'd prefer a change to be able to be combo'd into like soul reflect FADC U1. That would likely get more people to use it as well since right now U1, outside of some very meter intensive setups, is strictly for punishing.


Edit: I'm interested in learning a new character while waiting for Ae2013. I've already played Honda, Rose and Adon to death. Any suggestions? I adore great normals and grabs.
Click to expand...
I've been learning Bipson on the side and he's a lot more enjoyable to play than Honda. Great footsies and throw/safe jump game.

Azn_Boy said:
nope.avi
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? Do you main Guy or some other favorable matchup for Honda, because I think these are fair and solid changes if these come to fruition.

cHaotix8 said:
Well, that sucks. No more safe jumping Honda when he has meter. I hope it's only throw invincibility and not strike, because that's pretty dumb.
Click to expand...

There aren't a ton of Honda's out there so you probably won't see many use this tech. I personally save the meter for ex headbutts or to use super, but if the practicality is there and broadcasted you'll see wakeup ex ochio become the new wakeup ex headbutt. Kind of an OP buff if you Honda has the meter, so this would surely be tested to see if it should be removed.
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
kevo_huevo said:
Care to elaborate? Do you main Guy or some other favorable matchup for Honda, because I think these are fair and solid changes if these come to fruition.
Click to expand...

His j.MP is already very good, there's no need to make it dumb again. In Super, it was probably on par with Sakura's AE2012 j.HP.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Azn_Boy said:
His j.MP is already very good, there's no need to make it dumb again. In Super, it was probably on par with Sakura's AE2012 j.HP.
Click to expand...

I agree though his (direction)j.MP is better suited for air-to-air now along with j.Jab (though neutral jump fierce and jab are better options, just wanted clarify).

I see what you're saying though. Reverting his j.MP would make some of his favorable matchups lopsided (e.g. totally shutting down dee jay's slide anti air); though it helps Honda get in on some of his bad matchups where taking a chance on a jump-in for a trade is sometimes the best he can do.
 
G

Glix

Member
I'll be picking up the PC rev of this game very soon. Is there anything I need to know?

Is it all hacked up? Should I only be playing online with gaffers?
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
kevo_huevo said:
I agree though his (direction)j.MP is better suited for air-to-air now along with j.Jab (though neutral jump fierce and jab are better options, just wanted clarify).

I see what you're saying though. Reverting his j.MP would make some of his favorable matchups lopsided (e.g. totally shutting down dee jay's slide anti air); though it helps Honda get in on some of his bad matchups where taking a chance on a jump-in for a trade is sometimes the best he can do.
Click to expand...

His matchup against Rose (my main) would go from even to his favor lol. I only have one reliable anti-air and it's at its worse against stupid normals like Sakura's j.HP, Vega's j.HK, Fei's j.MP, etc.
 
G

Glix

Member
FlyFaster said:
I read it was something like $7k, either way it's straight up embarrassing for the "worlds biggest fighting game tournament."


Real prize money, i.e. large payouts, is what helped make body building and poker take off. Everyone who says that more money isn't what's needed int he fgc or that it will ruin it is crazy.
Click to expand...

Bigger pots = more pot splits? Ewwww. I still have that bad taste from VxG stuck in my mouth.
 
G

Glix

Member
Passive Assassin said:
No hacks. Maybe a couple of insanely laggy matches but you should be fine playing anyone on PC.
Click to expand...

I am SO out of practice. I finally quit paying for Live a year or so ago and haven't played SF or MvC since...

PS - Has Capcom ever given a reason for no PC port of MvC?
 
T

TCKaos

Member
I'm new to her (and SSFIVAE in general), but it looks like the Juri changes are all good things.

I've only just started using her and I'm completely running shop on my friends. She's been insanely good for me so far though I think her super is hilariously weak to the point of being almost useless.
 
W

Westlo

Member
black_vegeta said:
I can't stand Ken's that don't chuck plasma. Dashing in, kara throwing, ex tatsu crossups...
Click to expand...

Kens meant to be rush down/mix up. He sure as heck isn't meant to zone though he can with good spacing and certain matchups. But he's meant to get in close and mix you up.

Ken gets the most out of cross up tatsus out of the shotos, can normal tatsu into any combo or ex into either ultra.

I'm still amazed that ryus fireball game is vastly superior and he's quicker than ken, shit is dumb.

Kens fireball game is underrated, ex is quick as fuck and light is really slow, but the recovery is killer.
 
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