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[Bizazedo]

There's no way you're going to be punishing a lp sonic boom from Guile with that Ultra unless you predict it in something like the first 10 frames. It'll be good for the other versions I guess, but that matchup ain't gonna change much.

Bison still rapes shotos for the most part anyway though. Goes even with Sagat and Dhalsim?

It was an EX Boom. I was doing the motion anyways and saw him reach his arms back / shimmer. All I needed to do was push the button.

It could've been a feint and I would never say I wasn't reacting to the way his character moved and not the BOOM, but I did. Even saved the replay because it was entertaining .

To your point, though, I'd usually fail when I tried that. The fact that it worked was a "WOO!" moment.

I have no idea what Bison's matchups are considered these days. I'm sure Cammy beats him pretty handily, but dunno what else.

Match ups aside, he always struck me as a character who won because his opponent made mistakes.

 

[notworksafe]

Well his wife wears the pants in the relationship. He's allowed to sleep when she tells him to.

 

[Threi]

the more people talk about him, sometimes i wonder why i still stick with honda, when it seems like bipson is probably a better charge character/alternative

Bison and Balrog are the best charge chars hands down.

 

[kevo_huevo]

Bison and Balrog are the best charge chars hands down.

i figured. there's a part of me that feels like i owe it to myself to stick with honda, but damn i sure would like to experience winning a bit more.

 

[xCobalt]

i figured. there's a part of me that feels like i owe it to myself to stick with honda, but damn i sure would like to experience winning a bit more.

Winning with a character you don't like isn't very fun, imo. Stick with honda! Talk to the people you play with and see what you can do to improve.

 

[Hinomura]

Ooook drunk play as usual!

Choose your destiny! Drunk Akuma or Drunk Random Character!

PC MrYo74

^__^

 

[stabicron7]

I have no idea what Bison's matchups are considered these days. I'm sure Cammy beats him pretty handily, but dunno what else.

The same three definitely beat him as always have. Guile, Honda, and Zangief. There are other bad matchups but none are as bad as those.

Match ups aside, he always struck me as a character who won because his opponent made mistakes.

As much as some try to make it seem otherwise this is very much true at intermediate/high level play

 

[cHaotix8]

I have no idea what Bison's matchups are considered these days. I'm. ure Cammy beats him pretty handily, but dunno what else.

Actually, I'd say bison has a slight advantage in the Cammy matchup. A patient bison shouldn't have too much trouble with cammy if they know how to beat her on the ground.

 

[Bizazedo]

Actually, I'd say bison has a slight advantage in the Cammy matchup. A patient bison shouldn't have too much trouble with cammy if they know how to beat her on the ground.

Like I said, I haven't even looked at match ups in years and back then Cammy was favored. I honestly don't see how it's changed from then to now, but I am still rusty and getting back in to the swing of things. If consensus has changed, YAY, I still need to find out why and utilize it .

[edit]

Actually, yeah Chaotix, everything I can find says 6/4 Cammy.

 

[cHaotix8]

Eh, there's people out there that say she beats balrog and honda as well. Part of it stems from players not really understanding what cammy is doing or how to deal with it. She does really badly against lame characters because she relies on the opponent to make mismistakes, and dominates characters that she can't "stick to". When I think of a 6-4, I think of Cody. He can't reliably anti air her when she has meter and when she's on him he can't get her off without teching a throw or landing an ex zonk. Bison has the mobility to control the spacing game and the escape options (backdash, fast backwards walk speed, ex scissors, psycho crusher, devil's reverse) to get away when she gets in. Most bisons like to hold db and crouch tech, and they get blown up for it.

What was I saying? Oh yeah, bison is a good character! His subtle strengths are just often overlooked by characters that have a flashier presense, if that makes sense.

Cammy is pretty dumb though.

 

[BizzyBum]

Anyone looking for some games?

 

[xCobalt]

Anyone looking for some games?

I'm down if you're still interested.

 

[Bizazedo]

anyone interested in PC games

 

[xCobalt]

GGs Bizzy. I gotta find a way to beat your Ryu. You throw ex fireballs at all the right times and I'm pretty sure I got hit by all of them.

 

[Rentahamster]

Some neato combos, courtesy of Sako.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UFKeyJu58M

 

[Lizard with a ladder]

Guys I need some advice. Been a pad player since the SFII. Recently picked up SSFIV on pc and bought a fight stick. It's been a learning curve to put it light. Should I resist temptation and stick with training mode?

The drunk me wants some online gaming but I'm getting schooled right now

 

[Marz]

Guys I need some advice. Been a pad player since the SFII. Recently picked up SSFIV on pc and bought a fight stick. It's been a learning curve to put it light. Should I resist temptation and stick with training mode?

The drunk me wants some online gaming but I'm getting schooled right now

Play some endless. You're gonna lose a lot which will force you to adapt quicker.

 

[Lizard with a ladder]

Play some endless. You're gonna lose a lot which will force you to adapt quicker.

You got a good point if it's endless 1 vs 1. I'd love to have a sparring partner to train. Most of my friends that played SF moved out of state and have kids nows. Hardly any of them come online anymore.

The only thing stopping me from joining an endless match is the fear of joining with some douche bags that shit talk.

EDIT: Took your advice. Hit up some endless. Not having as hard a time.

 

[Marz]

You got a good point if it's endless 1 vs 1. I'd love to have a sparring partner to train. Most of my friends that played SF moved out of state and have kids nows. Hardly any of them come online anymore.

The only thing stopping me from joining an endless match is the fear of joining with some douche bags that shit talk.

EDIT: Took your advice. Hit up some endless. Not having as hard a time.

Haha talking shit is the best part about fighting games though.

But yea when I made the transition to stick I just played as much as I could online with actual people. I hate losing so it pretty much forced me to get used to stick really fast.

 

[Lizard with a ladder]

Haha talking shit is the best part about fighting games though.

But yea when I made the transition to stick I just played as much as I could online with actual people. I hate losing so it pretty much forced me to get used to stick really fast.

lol no doubt. When that shit talk comes from your boy. I don't mind that shit at all. From a random, rage!

If you want to spar with a shitty Sagat, add me - http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997863119/

 

[Edgeward]

pc games?

 

[BizzyBum]

GGs Bizzy. I gotta find a way to beat your Ryu. You throw ex fireballs at all the right times and I'm pretty sure I got hit by all of them.

Yeah, ggs. I have a tendency to use way more ex fireballs than most Ryu's which isn't good really because I never build up a Super but I find it helps a lot with zoning and taking some pressure off with the push back.

Guys I need some advice. Been a pad player since the SFII. Recently picked up SSFIV on pc and bought a fight stick. It's been a learning curve to put it light. Should I resist temptation and stick with training mode?

The drunk me wants some online gaming but I'm getting schooled right now

It took me months to get completely used to it. I wanted to throw it out the window during the first few weeks. Stick with it because eventually you get much better.

 

[Passive Assassin]

Guys I need some advice. Been a pad player since the SFII. Recently picked up SSFIV on pc and bought a fight stick. It's been a learning curve to put it light. Should I resist temptation and stick with training mode?

The drunk me wants some online gaming but I'm getting schooled right now

Do both. Or at least do the trials at first. It took me about 3 weeks to learn everything on a really shitty Hori EX 2 stick. I felt so happy when I got air tatsu down with ryu

 

[xCobalt]

Yeah, ggs. I have a tendency to use way more ex fireballs than most Ryu's which isn't good really because I never build up a Super but I find it helps a lot with zoning and taking some pressure off with the push back.

I think it's worth using against gouken though. With no fast 2 hitting fireball, Ryu can get a knockdown rather easily against gouken.

 

[FlyFaster]

Bison still rapes shotos for the most part anyway though.

Since when?

I remember an interview w/ Diago and some other Japanese players and they were saying that the shotos have option selects for pretty much all his wake up options and his AA game sucks balls, you can jump in on him pretty easily at cross up distance as st. HK will whiff and cr.HP is incredibly slow.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Since when?

I remember an interview w/ Diago and some other Japanese players and they were saying that the shotos have option selects for pretty much all his wake up options and his AA game sucks balls, you can jump in on him pretty easily at cross up distance as st. HK will whiff and cr.HP is incredibly slow.

They have OS to cover all his options, but you have to guess which option he goes with and choose to right OS to cover it. DP beats EX scissors, crusher, devils reverse, and makes stomp whiff. But he can can still teleport. If you OS tatsu, you punish teleport but if he wakes up with anything else then he's free and you get hit depending on what he does.

 

[MIMIC]

This is a thing Latif posted. Don't know the source so don't know how legit it is.

"Seth
- Tanden Engine is no longer cancelable from normals.
- All SRK's have reduced invincibility comparable to Ryu's LP SRK.
- Wall Jump Removed."

 

[FlyFaster]

"Seth
- Tanden Engine is no longer cancelable from normals.
- All SRK's have reduced invincibility comparable to Ryu's LP SRK.
- Wall Jump Removed."

This sounds good to me. I hate the very concept of the character. Nerf into the ground please.

They have OS to cover all his options, but you have to guess which option he goes with and choose to right OS to cover it. DP beats EX scissors, crusher, devils reverse, and makes stomp whiff. But he can can still teleport. If you OS tatsu, you punish teleport but if he wakes up with anything else then he's free and you get hit depending on what he does.

hmm.. isn't OS tatsu against teleport is essentially a reset of the situation if it doesn't hit. If you both go opposite directions, what can Bison do from the other end of the screen? Tatsu will recover in time for anything he can attempt. Sure it's not a punish, but I feel like this situation is in the shotos favor. They either punish the teleport or go back to square 1. Bison can't really do shit against FBs from that far away either. Ex scissors can't reach as it's invulnerability is only at the very start of the move.

 

[Robot Pants]

"Seth
- Tanden Engine is no longer cancelable from normals.
- All SRK's have reduced invincibility comparable to Ryu's LP SRK.
- Wall Jump Removed."

Haha no way.
Refuse to believe it.

 

[Kadey]

Thinking about doing another Team tourney for Ultra.

 

[Relix]

Thinking about doing another Team tourney for Ultra.

Do it.

 

[cHaotix8]

Since when?

Since always?

OS's don't play matches for you, and there is usually a way around them. Part of what makes Bison so good is that you can't cover each of his numerous escape options. You have to look for one and hope you guess right (Part of what gives Cammy trouble when she's pressuring him).

Even if you are full screen, Bison dosn't have to really deal with fireballs. With meter and at the right spacing he gets ex scissors, he can focus dash forward with his insane dash speed, devils reverse all day to build meter.

And then bison just beats them clean on the ground too. Fast walk speed with normals you can't really whiff punish. You have to risk jumping or throwing a fireball at midrange and if you guess wrong, bam. He has a safejumps that beat DP when he scores a knockdown to keep up his pressure.

I don't make this stuff up, Happy Medicine, arguably the best Bison in the US right now, has said this on multiple occasions, and it makes sense to me. I'm also inclined to believe him, as I've never seen him lose to a shoto that wasn't just a straight up better player than him.

 

[Threi]

Not even that Bison has so many effective wakeup options, but that the threat of having then is such an advantage. You can wind up getting off for free because your opponent is hesitant to pressure you on wakeup. Like for example they expect a wakeup ex pc and jumpback rh, you do nothing...whoops! Also option select setups are pretty telegraphed, you can usually know which one your opponent is going for, especially if you are aware of your wakeup patterns.

Switching from bison to deejay when SSF4 dropped made me realize this in the worst way, as people have no fear in bullying that char and you can't do a damn thing about it. Option select safejump or low meaty into special: gg.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Fuck yes @ the seth nerfs. Fuck that character.

 

[stn]

Fireballs suck in this game but Bison is especially good against them. If he makes a good read his jump can cover so much ground. Before you know it he's throwing out 200 cr. lk's and safe scissors. And then when you finally pressure him he has enough escape options to keep you guessing.

People have been asking for Bison to have a good and dependable AA in 2014. IMO, that would make him too dominant. Can't zone, can't jump in on. What the hell do you do, lol?

EDIT: If he gets cr. fp as a good AA then I'll use him again like I used to. But he'll be a sub to Rolento and Oni.

 

[FlyFaster]

Since always?

OS's don't play matches for you, and there is usually a way around them. Part of what makes Bison so good is that you can't cover each of his numerous escape options. You have to look for one and hope you guess right (Part of what gives Cammy trouble when she's pressuring him).

Even if you are full screen, Bison dosn't have to really deal with fireballs. With meter and at the right spacing he gets ex scissors, he can focus dash forward with his insane dash speed, devils reverse all day to build meter.

And then bison just beats them clean on the ground too. Fast walk speed with normals you can't really whiff punish. You have to risk jumping or throwing a fireball at midrange and if you guess wrong, bam. He has a safejumps that beat DP when he scores a knockdown to keep up his pressure.

I don't make this stuff up, Happy Medicine, arguably the best Bison in the US right now, has said this on multiple occasions, and it makes sense to me. I'm also inclined to believe him, as I've never seen him lose to a shoto that wasn't just a straight up better player than him.

Fireballs suck in this game but Bison is especially good against them. If he makes a good read his jump can cover so much ground. Before you know it he's throwing out 200 cr. lk's and safe scissors. And then when you finally pressure him he has enough escape options to keep you guessing.

People have been asking for Bison to have a good and dependable AA in 2014. IMO, that would make him too dominant. Can't zone, can't jump in on. What the hell do you do, lol?

EDIT: If he gets cr. fp as a good AA then I'll use him again like I used to. But he'll be a sub to Rolento and Oni.

I play Bison but I am not nearly as good as Happy Medicine so I'll take what you say into account.

But....
if FBs really aren't the problem that you guys say they are for bison, why is it that the Guile match is so hard for him/

It's clearly in Guiles favor, and this has to do largely with his FB game. Shotos to a certain extent and play the same game. So I don't see why Shotos would be jumping in from midscreen, unless they were close enough to attempt a cross up so as to avoid st.HK. It's widely accepted that Bison doesn't have very good AA options and once in characters can pretty much jump in on him for free, thus forcing the situation of Bison spending meter to wakeup and trying to avoid an OS, which then ends in him getting hit by the OS or resetting the situation.

I admit that he has a slight footsie advantage in matches against shotos, but he still needs to get in. Once in he has no overhead. His pressure is good but some of his moves like st.hk can easily be focused, even st.MK can and will be punished unless you are at max distance. My brother does this all the time, focus on reaction to my kicks.

edit: at bold. I already covered this but I feel it's worth saying again. Look at the Guile match up. It's in Guile favor, ask yourself why.

 

[cHaotix8]

Guile has a slow moving fireball that recovers almost instantly, whereas shotos fireballs move faster and have insane recovery. It's not the same thing.

You can react and punish a shoto fireball, and even just guess and damage. Guile is designed so that you can't even punish on a guess unless he does a really late sonic boom, or a non ex variation. Yeah, they have the same tools, but one is clearly better than the other. If ryu had lp sonic boom properties on his fireball he'd be the best character in the game.

 

[Threi]

edit: at bold. I already covered this but I feel it's worth saying again. Look at the Guile match up. It's in Guile favor, ask yourself why.

Bison's high jump arc, combined with Guile's insanely fast fireball recovery make it hard for bison to consistently get in. He just controls the space where bison wants to approach too well.

You say look at the guile matchup, how about this: why is the bison/deejay matchup so hard for deejay? He has a "guile-esque" fireball doesn't he?

Simple answer is you can't directly compare characters like that. That particular matchup just happens to fall in guile's favor (and honestly it is pretty damn doable with bison, there are MUCH worse matchups in the game)

 

[stn]

Yup, exactly. Guile is the only character in AE that can win purely off fireballs. He beats Bison because its difficult to punish his recovery, and because st. fp beats many of Bison's options. A good Ryu will beat Bison not through fireballs but through knockdowns and properly OS'ing.

Dee-Jay has a fireball and he sucks against Bison. I've played tons of Dee-Jay and that matchup is just awful.

 

[FlyFaster]

@both you guys
ok, fair enough.

I was just arguing that shotos can play a similar game to Guile. Not as good of course but the option is there.

edit: on the subject of Dee Jay, I guess he's "like" Guile if you mean he has a FB, but everything about him from his normals to his specials leaves something to be desired. He's just not a goof character. Anytime someone could/would pick Dee Jay there is already other characters that do everything he does expect better and safer. It's like picking Iron Man over Magneto in MvC3, it's never a good call.

 

[direct_quote]

Haha no way.
Refuse to believe it.

I could deal with the reduced invincibility on uppercuts, but tandem engine made up for Seth's bad footsies, and the wall jump kinda (but not really) made up for his bad walk speed. Welp glad I stuck with Yun in 2012 because I'll be playing him more in Ultra because I assume they won't nerf him more(and Gene if they add him ).

"Seth
- Tanden Engine is no longer cancelable from normals.
- All SRK's have reduced invincibility comparable to Ryu's LP SRK.
- Wall Jump Removed."

Btw where is the source for this because I'd like to see if Yun's changes have been posted yet...

 

[MIMIC]

From Lost Fragment's original post. http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8312977

 

[Kadey]

Do it.

If I do something it has to be big. Trying to aim for 64 players. Still have a long ways to go before then so we'll see what ideas I can come up with. But now everything can be streamed.

 

[Lost Fragment]

You should guilt trip haunts to hook you up with some prizes. Be all like "Yo Arksys did some shit for the BB GAF tourney. You gonna let them show you up like that?"

 

[Robot Pants]

I still don't believe it - or it won't stick.
How can they not realize that all of those literally kill Seth as a character. He will drop badly.

 

[Bizazedo]

@both you guys
ok, fair enough.

I was just arguing that shotos can play a similar game to Guile. Not as good of course but the option is there.

edit: on the subject of Dee Jay, I guess he's "like" Guile if you mean he has a FB, but everything about him from his normals to his specials leaves something to be desired. He's just not a goof character. Anytime someone could/would pick Dee Jay there is already other characters that do everything he does expect better and safer. It's like picking Iron Man over Magneto in MvC3, it's never a good call.

yeah they're right. Bison is a fun fight versus shotos and dee jay. It is not 7-3 or anywhere near it but bison can still do it.

I want to apologize to threi too since from reading I see how he was right and bison is favored over dj. I still can't see it versus cammy (sorry chaotix) but dj definitely.

So now I am very curious what they will do to him for ultra.

 

[Kadey]

ANYBODY WANT TO PLAY!?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I still don't believe it - or it won't stick.
How can they not realize that all of those literally kill Seth as a character. He will drop badly.

I for one am glad more of Seth's toys are being taken away. People said this same stuff when they took away his yoga sniper. Such a stupid character.

 

[RockTurtle]

i dont understand the seth hate. he's as versatile as Akuma.

The one comfort i have facing seths is that 2 fierce hits and he's lost half his life.

 

[Rice-Eater]

I play Seth as a side character, he's very fun to play but man do I hate playing against him. Removing wall jump would just further help make him less annoying to fight. No more baiting DP's by doing low wall jump into dive kick or using the wall to escape the corner. But he's going to need some strong buffs to make up for all these nerfs that he is reportedly getting.

I'd say keep his stun and health low and buff his damage(mostly his normals), make j. MK a good cross up, and improve his walk speed a bit. This would help make up the loss of cross up j. HK, wall jump, and special cancel tanden if those are all actually happening. He's not being removed from the game and I think it would be too excessive to make him completely obsolete although I can understand that most people would love that to happen.