UltraDavid
Member
what makes you so worried about that?
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Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra
- Thread starter Kadey
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what makes you so worried about that?
I'm a Makoto player who already doesn't like that matchup. -.-
Realistically though, it's the kind of tool that nobody in the game has and even if you want to make him a mobile grappler, it makes approaching him too dangerous IMO. Maybe I'd be down with it if it cost a bar?
UltraDavid
Member
oh well he can already do ex dive while jumping back, so that's not new. i'd just prefer if he could also do regular dive. keep in mind, regular dive is really punishable on block.
biosnake20
Member
I'm excited to see some interesting side tournaments with this mode.
Professor Beef
Banned
just block the dive
RockTurtle
Member
nobody talks about GUY 
(they should make his run stop 2 frame recovery)
(they should make his run stop 2 frame recovery)
Ah, yeah. I forgot he could ex dive while jumping back.
I know that regular dive is really punishable, but like I was saying earlier; NOBODY in the game can dive while jumping back, at least without using a bar.
Rice-Eater
Member
I played with a friend last night for 3 hours with Ultra mods installed for several characters. It was a blast as both our characters got some big buffs. Me with Evil Ryu and him with Gouken and Yang, especially Yang. Yang is fucking scary with his cross up back. And having a 4f st. LK and cancelable st. MP was also a pain the deal with. Funny thing is neither of us knew how to do delayed stand up(just never read that part) and we kept accidentally doing it against each other. I also red focused his low forwards into all 3 mantis slash and crumpled him lol. As for me, I was spamming the new target combo like crazy. I even passed up more damage just to do it. It makes for a great frame trap, option select and knockdown combo ender against crouchers.
I'm loving this taste of Ultra so far. Hopefully the changes to my character at least stay intact. I just can't wait for June to get here so I can have the real thing. Not looking forward to facing Jlai though and dem Mak changes
I'm loving this taste of Ultra so far. Hopefully the changes to my character at least stay intact. I just can't wait for June to get here so I can have the real thing. Not looking forward to facing Jlai though and dem Mak changes
RockTurtle
Member
im gonna be on that online training stage all day erry day!
we should do a google docs timeline!
*not gonna steal moves/memorize patterns, totally*
EDIT: hold on am i reading this right. Elena has a mid-screen overhead?
we should do a google docs timeline!
*not gonna steal moves/memorize patterns, totally*
EDIT: hold on am i reading this right. Elena has a mid-screen overhead?
Looking at Elena's EX sweep move, it doesn't seem to be a true blockstring between the 4th and 5th hit. Here you see him block hits 3/4, and then gets hit by 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWUSktZ9KRA&t=2m21s
I thought it was bullshit that you could ultra after that move, since the 5th hit on block pushes her back on block (making it hard to punish), but if you ultra between hits 4 and 5 it won't be too bad. Like ultra-ing through Guile's sweeps, except there's a big yellow flash to tell you to do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWUSktZ9KRA&t=2m21s
I thought it was bullshit that you could ultra after that move, since the 5th hit on block pushes her back on block (making it hard to punish), but if you ultra between hits 4 and 5 it won't be too bad. Like ultra-ing through Guile's sweeps, except there's a big yellow flash to tell you to do it.
Rice-Eater
Member
I just want that new team battle thing to be possible with 2 players so we can do KOF style matches. My team will be Evil Ryu, Akuma, and Oni. Team Demon. Just kidding, it'll be more like Evil Ryu, Yun, and Seth. I would love that if it's possible. Trying to get 6 people together is too difficult so hopefully we can do it this way.
Shouta
Member
I can agree with all of this. Have you sent it over to Combofiend? I couldn't write it down on Saturday because they ran out of forms when I wanted to fill one out. -_-
Stuff I'd like to see now that I've played USF4 and put a little more thought into it. I's pretty likely I wouldn't get any of this but I figured I'd list it anyway.
st.mk - If possible another active frame on it making it 6 start-up/4 active and lowering the damage from 70 to 60.
st.hp - I might be misremembering my online play last night but this actually whiffs on some crouching opponents when in closer despite being tagging at longer ranges. I'd like the hitbox moved down a bit so it can't be crouched but you can go under using special attacks like slides.
cl.mp - The new activation range on this is really nice and allows it to be used as an anti-air but looking the old hitbox data for it, it stops at his wrist, lol. Probably wouldn't be considered but I'd like to see the hitbox kept the same size but moved further up the arm into the hands a bit.
Biggest problem for Hawk in the Blanka match-up is that he doesn't have a way to punish a blocked ball. being able to punish it would discourage players from spamming it and would allow Hawk to do his thing. I didn't get to play a blanka at CapCup but I think the new walk speed allows Hawk to walk up far enough to punish a blocked ball with st.hk which is ridiculously awesome. There were too many folks to be able to really test it out. =( That would make the fight even or even in Hawk's favor alone, IMO.
Doesn't Juri have the ability to do her special attack dive while jumping back?
Yea you could make some amazing characters even better than they already are. Like imagine running Fei Long on point who doesn't even really need meter that much and then bringing in a fully stocked Cammy? EX cannon strikes for days.
Which characters do you think would be good to battery with, who builds meter fastest while not needing meter themselves? Rose builds meter great against fireball characters, but she can't use her only improved EX drill to escape. El Fuerte only uses meter to escape for the most part, but his EX anti-air throw now comboable from grounded opponents so they might want to use EX for that.
I really don't have a clear answer to this, especially when you consider balance changes. I wouldn't consider Honda because of his EX headbutt, but now it's nerfed, so will it still be his go-to move? How nerfed is nerfed? Can't really say until we get a hold of the game and test it out.
Right now I'm thinking Rose / Sakura / Abel will be my start up combination. Starts off with zoning, building meter, then going full rushdown mode (with stocked meter). Good against fireball characters, tough for zoning characters. Anchor grapplers might be a problem, as I tend to have a hard time with them with Abel.
I really don't have a clear answer to this, especially when you consider balance changes. I wouldn't consider Honda because of his EX headbutt, but now it's nerfed, so will it still be his go-to move? How nerfed is nerfed? Can't really say until we get a hold of the game and test it out.
Right now I'm thinking Rose / Sakura / Abel will be my start up combination. Starts off with zoning, building meter, then going full rushdown mode (with stocked meter). Good against fireball characters, tough for zoning characters. Anchor grapplers might be a problem, as I tend to have a hard time with them with Abel.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I build a ton of meter with Sim (ussually have super near the beginning of 2nd round) and Bison doesn't use meter unless to escape from pressure. Yang also doesn't use that much meter (I don't know how to FADC his rekkas) except his EX palm. Funny enough Chun would be a good battery or 2nd character since her Super can punish almost everything.
I think I'd personally just run a team with a character from each archetype. I'd run like Adon/Zangief/Sagat or something. Let Adon rush down meter less opponents and build meter while not using it at all( he really only uses it for FADC ultra anyways. If he ran into a bad matchup I got Gief to handle the majority of those + do big damage. Then have my best character on anchor with Sagat fully loaded for safe uppercuts and ex fireballs.
I have a feeling the 3v3 is gonna be online only and with 4-6 people. Doesn't hurt to think of teams though!
Yup. Rufus can divekick while jumping back too but its not very good.
Rice-Eater
Member
For fun, teams with a theme
Team Demons: Evil Ryu, Oni, Akuma
Team Bosses: Akuma, Seth, Bison
Team Giants: Gief, Hawk, Hugo
Team schoolgirls: Makoto, Ibuki, Sakura
Team Final Fight Villains: Poison, Hugo, Rolento
Team Dive kick: Yun, Yang, Rufus
I think it is still throwable. It's completely projectile invulnerable now, apparently. Overall I'm excited for new Rose. She's definitely a character that benefits from the double-ultra option. More damage on a lot of her stuff, too.
EDIT - the change log says EX drill is "completely invulnerable", which is non-specific. If it's hit and projectile invulnerable, its likely to be throwable.
UltraDavid
Member
well nobody else is so punishable after the opponent blocks their air mobility move either. hawk's dives aren't like dive kicks, that is they're not usually for putting him at certain spots or for mixing the opponent up between them and grabs. they're used as on reaction punishes or as big risks when you feel you need them. imo allowing him to do those two things while jumping back is a nice buff to him without hurting most other characters too much.
kevo_huevo
Member
team online warrior day 1 - ryu, ken, evil ryu/akuma
MiniBossBattle
Member
3-D: Dhalsim Dhalsim Dhalsim. Believe.
That's true. I guess as long as it has a respectable height restriction, it makes sense.
Also, can someone point me in the general direction of the tentative Ultra mod changes? I wanna try messing around with Ultra Makoto.
Rice-Eater
Member
Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/user/KingBlackToof/videos
I had a ton of fun playing a friend last night, we had mods installed for the same characters so it worked without any problems. He stuck mainly with Gouken and Yang and me with Evil Ryu. Knowing that Ultra is coming and I'm not a regular tournament attendee right now I basically only want to play with the Ultra mods right now. So hopefully some of you guys jump on the train so we can play with these changes.
Admittedly I'm holding back on changes to any characters I play who got nerfed. That's why I ignored the mod for Ultra Seth. Stretchy arms is OK I guess, but no cross up HK and losing stun on a lot of stuff hurts. I'll just stick with AE 2012 Seth for now.
Which chars do you have it installed on so we can sync up?
Rice-Eater
Member
I have Gouken, Yang, Evil Ryu, Makoto, and Ken. But I don't think you need all of them though, probably just the characters that we would play. So if you don't install Gouken, I think everything will be fine as long as neither of us play Gouken in a match. Probably better safe then sorry, but I think that would be the case.
Yeah that's what I was concerned with. I'll just have Mak, E.Ryu, Yang, and Ken installed.
Passive Assassin
Member
where's the ibuki changes :[
Shouta
Member
I keel'd them.
Passive Assassin
Member
rip
Rice-Eater
Member
You want no hard knockdowns on regular neckbreaker right now? I'll see what I can do for you
Professor Beef
Banned
Grapplers build TONS of bar for themselves. Hakan's oil buff gives him meter, too.
Rice-Eater
Member
GG's Jlai and Cloudious. I havne't played Cloudious in a really long time. If memory serves me right he's from Hawaii, which would explain our very poor connection. That Seth/Evil Ryu match was pretty hilarious as we were just pressing buttons and jumping constantly to see if something connects. Plus I kept wanting to land jump back stretchy arms. I'm enjoying Yang, I never really played him much before but with his buffs I wanted to test him out. I pretty much played him like Yun and it seemed to work out pretty well for the most part. Just replace cross up dives with regular cross up j. MK and everything else works the same. Hit confirm jabs into st. MP and do up kicks if it hits, and slash(shoulder for Yun) if it's blocked.
And Mak is going to be a total beast in Ultra. One bar for a reset into left right mix up will be so good considering they nerfed hard knockdowns with delayed wake up. Unfortunately that mod we're playing has delayed wake up on soft knockdowns and it seems like everybody except me is doing it all the time and it's really messing up knockdown pressure regardless of how you score a knockdown. Still it's pretty fun to play with many of the new and improved characters.
And Mak is going to be a total beast in Ultra. One bar for a reset into left right mix up will be so good considering they nerfed hard knockdowns with delayed wake up. Unfortunately that mod we're playing has delayed wake up on soft knockdowns and it seems like everybody except me is doing it all the time and it's really messing up knockdown pressure regardless of how you score a knockdown. Still it's pretty fun to play with many of the new and improved characters.
It's kind of amusing to me that although delayed wakeup was meant to help out characters that have poor wakeup options/minimize autopilot setups...it actually kinda hurts deejay more than it helps him right now. What I've noticed is that meaties aren't actually going away, just autopilot safejump setups. DeeJay's complete weakness to meaties still exist, it doesn't even matter when he wakes up. The opponent just has to look for the wakeup animation and push the button.
Meanwhile on the other side of the coin his little safejump setups are killed (they were pretty shitty tbh so it's not going to radically affect him there any way) but moreso than that safe meaty fireballs are harder to set up now.
The more I think about how USF4 is headed right now...the more I am dreading what will happen to DeeJay. It may seem rather jaded of me but I really do feel that unless something drastic happens to him or the system, he is going to have some really, really bad matchups. Worse than how things are now, and things right now are pretty bad. Can't say I'm too excited for what's gunna happen to DeeJay.
At least Gief and Poison look really fun.
Meanwhile on the other side of the coin his little safejump setups are killed (they were pretty shitty tbh so it's not going to radically affect him there any way) but moreso than that safe meaty fireballs are harder to set up now.
The more I think about how USF4 is headed right now...the more I am dreading what will happen to DeeJay. It may seem rather jaded of me but I really do feel that unless something drastic happens to him or the system, he is going to have some really, really bad matchups. Worse than how things are now, and things right now are pretty bad. Can't say I'm too excited for what's gunna happen to DeeJay.
At least Gief and Poison look really fun.
biosnake20
Member
But he can cancel super into ultra.
CountBlack
Member
Character loyalty is a bitch.
Kaleinc
Banned
If it's not loyalty and I just don't like anyone else?
She's got that ridiculous 2 bar yang mixup (2 rekkas ^ fadc ^ st.mk ^ j.hp) bullshit for 1 less bar!
There's also the opposite end of the spectrum, the "I can't stick to one character" problem. I've gone Honda -> Abel -> Ken -> Sakura -> DeeJay -> Ryu -> Rose -> Sakura, with some Gouken, Fei Long, Rufus and Balrog sprinkled in there. I just can't stick with a character for more than a few months.
Passive Assassin
Member
You want no hard knockdowns on regular neckbreaker right now? I'll see what I can do for you
i don't trust you rice. i bet the patch i get from you is that ibuki is -1000 on all her moves.
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