my problem, especially when an opponent is closer than mid range to me. It's like when they get past that range(id say approximately the range where ryu's c.mk would just hit) I literally cant even react to them jumping in. At least past that range I either get the AA, or at least realize they're jumping in when its too late and at least try and do the input. When they're closer its like I dont even realize theyve jumped in on me until after they've already done so.
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Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra
- Thread starter Kadey
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my problem, especially when an opponent is closer than mid range to me. It's like when they get past that range(id say approximately the range where ryu's c.mk would just hit) I literally cant even react to them jumping in. At least past that range I either get the AA, or at least realize they're jumping in when its too late and at least try and do the input. When they're closer its like I dont even realize theyve jumped in on me until after they've already done so.
Professor Beef
Banned
As bad as the matchup is for Hawk, I honestly love fighting Sagat. There's something about fighting him that just pumps me up. I feel like a Saiyan, drooling and shit over a strong fight.
Speaking of DeeJay, does anyone else think that he and Dan have the best reversals in the game? I kind of judge it on how effective Fuerte's splash can stuff it. After all these years, I've found that his splash cannot stop a Dan SRK reversal or DeeJay's EX upkick reversal.
Some characters will get stuffed (Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, etc), or whiff (if you time it right, like Yun's EX upkicks), but DeeJay and Dan don't whiff or trade; they HIT you
Some characters will get stuffed (Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, etc), or whiff (if you time it right, like Yun's EX upkicks), but DeeJay and Dan don't whiff or trade; they HIT you
direct_quote
Member
But can't you safe jump DeeJay's and punish him easily? Just don't try to cross him up...Speaking of DeeJay, does anyone else think that he and Dan have the best reversals in the game? I kind of judge it on how effective Fuerte's splash can stuff it. After all these years, I've found that his splash cannot stop a Dan SRK reversal or DeeJay's EX upkick reversal.
Some characters will get stuffed (Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, etc), or whiff (if you time it right, like Yun's EX upkicks), but DeeJay and Dan don't whiff or trade; they HIT you
From my experience Seth has the longest invincible DP (but slower), and I usually BS ppl by abusing it.
Professor Beef
Banned
Speaking of DeeJay, does anyone else think that he and Dan have the best reversals in the game? I kind of judge it on how effective Fuerte's splash can stuff it. After all these years, I've found that his splash cannot stop a Dan SRK reversal or DeeJay's EX upkick reversal.
Some characters will get stuffed (Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, etc), or whiff (if you time it right, like Yun's EX upkicks), but DeeJay and Dan don't whiff or trade; they HIT you
Don't jump in, use a meaty tool against DJ. Problem solved.
Yeah. What I'm talking about may just simply be character dependent anyway. But I figured that since those were two were the only guys' reversals that always wins out that it was like that across the board.
What about Seth's dive kick or Guy's elbow thing? Who wins when DeeJay or Dan goes for the reversal?
Ah i see. The few times I messed around with Deejay in training mode he felt really solid to me, guess in practice it doesn't play out that way though.
A lot of it is just anticipation. I play a fireball character so its easier to predict when they're going to jump, but any character will have some situations where they can put their opponent in tough spots where the majority of players are going to jump(pressure in the corner for instance).
What I've noticed I is that a lot of players will test you early on to see if you're capable of consistently anti-airing, if you're not they'll just keep jumping on you.
Gat,Gief, and Hawk are so huge those fights always feel so manly and epic.
Imagine Hugo-Hawk in Ultra.
For the most part they all have slow startup, bad hitboxes, short range, and long recovery. The only real exception to this is his standing jabs, which are actually really good, but they don't lead into much for him.
To go into it one by one:
close jab: this is a legitimately good jab, has a good hitbox, hits crouchers, and has fast startup and recovery
far jab: also good, has fast startup and recovery, makes a good last second antiair
low jab: middle of the road, nothing really particularly good or bad about it (it can be chained into itself i guess)
close short: pretty crappy, only use it has is that it has zero pushback when you hit it.
far short: slow startup for a light button, but okay recovery. Limited use due to the low hitbox on a standing move.
low short: this is where the issue starts. DeeJay needs to be relying on this button the most out of all, and it's the biggest letdown. Very slow startup, Very slow recovery, and deceptively poor range (the hitbox ends before DeeJay's ankles). It's essentially a low forward in properties but has low short damage and hitstun...leaving DeeJay without a real low short. It really hurts him. (Startup being 1f faster in USF4)
close strong: primarily an anti-air move (hits directly vertical). Tough to use though due to close strong and far strong having vastly different startup times.
far strong: pretty much deejay's "best" antiair...by a good margin. It's a medium strength move. This is an issue (and contributes to him having low damage: having to rely on this move instead of others due to how bad they are). Although it has ok range (ok in reference to the rest of deejay's normals, not compared to the rest of the cast), it's higher hitbox makes it ineffective in the ground game. (will be getting buffed in USF4, mostly for more combo potential)
low strong: his old ST poke, nowhere in the same league as good as it was in that game (range, damage, speed, or hitbox). It's been buffed twice now in an effort to get it more use and still can't be applied very well. (It's getting buffed again in usf4)
close forward: this, along with his close jab, is deejay's legit best button. If far forward was deleted and he only had close forward, he would no doubt shoot up a tier. Great hitbox, startup, and frame advantage, can combo into itself (and a lot of other things). Unfortunately it's a close button which means you will only be seeing it in meaty pressure or combos.
far forward: Crappy normal that deejay is forced to use because its the closest thing he has to a good ranged normal. Somewhat ok startup (but slower if you use it as a ranged poke), terrible damage if you use it as a ranged poke (60dmg), and terrible frame advantage (unless you cancel the first hit...which doesn't have much range.) Mediocre hitbox as well. Only saving grace for it is if you are in that range where you are close enough that the first hit of far mk won't whiff but not too close that close mk will come out, it can make a pretty good armor breaker. However, that range is very narrow, and even attempting that is a huge risk in itself.
low forward: Deejay's sweep. Its pretty fast for a sweep. That's about the only good thing it has going for it. The range is very bad, and the damage is pretty low.
close fierce: A two hit punch, it has decent startup but it being two hits causes a bunch of issues for him (you can use the first hit as a close range antiair...kinda...but the second hit whiffing will leave you in a terrible position, the first hit does poor damage (50dmg), close strong does more. Only the first hit is cancellable too, meaning this button has no use at all to deejay as there is another button that does what it can do better.
far fierce: WTF capcom. This should be one of deejay's best anti-airs...and its complete garbage. Complete and utter shit. slow-ish startup, poor range, awful recovery, horrible hitbox. They keep adding stupid gimmicks to this button but the button itself remains trash.
low fierce: As a ground poke it's really bad, slow startup, poor range, very poor recovery. It's pretty bad as an anti-air too except for one little caveat - its surprisingly effective at stuffing dive kicks. Due to where it's hitbox is, and it having a good number of active frames, its blows them up pretty well. This is the only area that I think DeeJay is more effective than Guile.
close roundhouse: Odd move. It was hilariously bad in SSF4 (as in it would NOT hit...the move was literally broken on some characters), but they fixed it somewhat. Its a bit slow to use as a close range antiair but once again, like a bunch of deejay's normals, it's multi-hitting. The damage is separated, meaning its very little damage (you will only be getting the second hit - 60dmg) and his medium-strength buttons do more.
far roundhouse: DeeJay's longest-ranged poke...which has slow startup, a bad hitbox (its his furthest-ranged poke but even then the hitbox isn't at deejay's feet), and REALLY bad recovery (non-cancellable -5 on hit). Might as well use LK sobat, it's pretty much a completely faster move.
low roundhouse: His slide. Nothing like it was in ST, currently the slowest slide in the game (well technically bison's slide is 1 frame slower but his is entirely different in application and can be focus cancelled). Capcom made the slide shorter in AE to make it able to be a bit more useful on the ground (easier to space) but in doing so it's actually worse as an anti air now. Either way it's still focus bait, and considering it's the only way deejay can maintain forward movement while holding a charge (compare with guile's knee bazooka) it only amplifies how bad deejay's midrage game is.
As it stands right now he is a character filled with conceptual anti-airs as normals (sorta like dhalsim), and not much in the way of effective ground pokes. That creates a pretty big hole in his neutral game, and he suffers for it. On top of that his situational anti-airs don't really work as advertised. But yes, he does have a good walkspeed.
Dan does have one of the better SRKs in the game, along with Oni and Seth. Oni's however, can't be made safe (yet). DeeJay's upkicks are an effective antiair, yes (assuming you have charge), but it comes with it's own set of problems. You can't make it safe or FADC it (due to it being airborne from the first active frame), and as stated many times, it whiffs on crouching opponents. I'd say it's about as effective as blanka's EX upball.MIMIC said:Speaking of DeeJay, does anyone else think that he and Dan have the best reversals in the game? I kind of judge it on how effective Fuerte's splash can stuff it. After all these years, I've found that his splash cannot stop a Dan SRK reversal or DeeJay's EX upkick reversal.
Some characters will get stuffed (Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, etc), or whiff (if you time it right, like Yun's EX upkicks), but DeeJay and Dan don't whiff or trade; they HIT you
It depends on how early you input the command. If you do it too early than Seth's dive kick and guy's elbow will win every time. This is hard for characters like seth, sakura, and adon since their air-to-ground moves are really fast. If you delay it enough then yeah, upkicks will beat it.
Its all about hitbox/hurtbox interaction and invincibility frames. You always want to time the move that when their hitbox reaches you, you are on the invincibility frames of your reversal, and when your reversal is on it's first active frame, its right on their hurtbox. The later the reversal, the better simply put.
On a related note Rose's jump fierce is really hard to antiair, it can stuff EX upkicks clean.
Triple Oceans
Member
I use Akuma and E.Ryu.
direct_quote
Member
Anyone want to play on PSN now.. Gamer Tag: Dominus_what
I play Makoto, people get the jump on me all day. I feel like I should just go into ranked with the sole purpose of SRK'ing as many jump ins as possible, without worrying about anything else. Thing is, when I do this, i tend to stand around and then opponents tend to stop jumping :/
but he has a vortex
Passive Assassin
Member
nothing is safe anymore. 50/50 the game!!!
Maybe the problem isn't your anti-airing, but your ground game instead?
The idea of a mental stack might help you understand how people are so good at anti-airing. Particularly this:
Once you get a solid game plan, you can pay less attention to what you're supposed to do and start reacting faster to what your opponent is doing. I imagine that this is why I've seen good players (like PR Balrog when he streams) say that they aren't doing anything when they're beating bad players. They might just be running their basic autopilot game, which is strong enough to beat a lot of weaker players who can't handle it.
I personally have awful defense and crack really easily, so I can kinda anti-air until my opponent cracks my ground game (which is not too hard since I'm bad lol). After that I fall apart to mixups and jump-ins.
Triple Oceans
Member
WOW! That was extremely helpful OceanBlue. I appreciate you posting that article.
Thanks for this. That article pretty much describes my problem.
direct_quote
Member
Anyone think of having a sf4 tourney like the gaf marvel tournament coming up?
Professor Beef
Banned
If you can find someone to run it, and also find people who won't flake out, then more power to you.
Rice-Eater
Member
I announced this a while back, but I plan on running a SF4 tourney with the prize being a free copy of Ultra(DLC only though when it gets closer to the launch date. Since PC version won't be out for a while, it will be 360 and PS3 only for now. I don't know how I want to do it though. Do people want to play for real or have it be more luck based and have it random select instead?
I did a random select SF4 tourney to win a copy of SFxT a while back. It seemed like everybody had a good time. I would prefer that method because I don't want the better players to just bulldoze the rest so easily. Maybe Mr. 4000pp guy gets Hakan and has no clue what to do against someone who isn't that good and gets a character he's familiar with, so he can win. But we still have a while until USF4 hits console so we can discuss the format later.
As for when, I wanted to run it about a week or two before Ultra's release date whenever that is(which should be late May I assume). But since you're just talking about a regular tourney. I'm up for it as long as it's a one day thing or only last a week. Try to do something like GAFbats and people will drop left and right.
direct_quote
Member
I'm down for some games on psn: Dominus_what
direct_quote
Member
Yah GGs, you must have been in training mode with that Sagat because he hurt a lot.
Thanks man. Yea I've been trying to grind as much as I can.
Do you main Yun? I noticed you had more BP with Seth.
direct_quote
Member
I try to, but yah I main Yun and don't really play Seth much anymore unless I don't like the matchup. Sort of getting ready for Ultra Seth nerf train..
Emperor Bohe
Member
so salty right now. was about to beat this dude that was ranked 34 or something with Oni but then my stick decided to not accept any inputs for the last 10 seconds of the match. so I was walking around helplessly. I unplugged my detachable cord then plugged it back in and everything was fine again. what could have caused this? I have a Mad Catz TE-S that's modded with MC Cthulhu (with the detachable cables for all of the consoles and everything)
also, we should campaign to get Capcom to add TTT2 style (like Tekken Tunes) custom soundtracks to Ultra SF4. It may be too late for it to be there for launch, but maybe they can patch it in after...
also, we should campaign to get Capcom to add TTT2 style (like Tekken Tunes) custom soundtracks to Ultra SF4. It may be too late for it to be there for launch, but maybe they can patch it in after...
My vision for running an ongoing set of tournaments on GAF included actual sponsors, commentary, use of technology and such not yet in homes and various other goodies. But the amount of people and people actually giving a crap to put effort into it was and is inadequate. And that is why we can't have nice things.
Rice-Eater
Member
And Ono continues to hint USF4 for PS4
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/441372768035012609
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/441370089686700032
I really hope it happens. PS4 version would be great because we finally get the nice clean visuals of the PC version on console and being able to stream straight from the console is also a nice feature that I figure we will use. The only other thing I would need is for someone(like Hori, Qanba, or MCZ) to release a quality fight stick and I'm good to go.
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/441372768035012609
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/441370089686700032
I really hope it happens. PS4 version would be great because we finally get the nice clean visuals of the PC version on console and being able to stream straight from the console is also a nice feature that I figure we will use. The only other thing I would need is for someone(like Hori, Qanba, or MCZ) to release a quality fight stick and I'm good to go.
Maybe people would give a crap if they were aware of what's being planned?
Going on a little tangent, I've never really enjoyed listening to people commentate endless lobbies. Just feels off. Don't really know how to explain it.
direct_quote
Member
But probably wont be as prevalent in tournies for at least a year because everyone has to buy new sticks, etc etc. Unless current sticks work on PS4?
Professor Beef
Banned
On GAF? hahahahahahahahaha
We managed that just fine back in vanilla.
Even had a PS3 tournament at the same time.
Maybe if you actually know what you are talking about before you comment?
How long have you been here? Oh wait. 2012. Figures.
There's been numerous times where I've made posts and such about having a tournament for various games and giving out actual prizes of worth. Nine out of ten times nobody gives a shit. My main thing is to have no less than 32 people interested otherwise it will not be worth my time spending my own money, doing various other things and getting certain parties involved, like MadCatz, to run it.
I ran several tournaments, the first being the most successful GAF tournament to date not just fighting games but GAF as whole; but to replicate that success again is next to impossible.
The very last tournament I ran while successful in some ways was the longest damn tournament in history, lasting over six months and ended up being more of a pain in the ass than anything. I'm not going to put myself through that shit ever again.
Bottom line is most of fighting GAF rarely plays the actual games yet alone would participate in a tournament. You'll be able to run miniscule tournaments here and there but not to the level that I'd like worth throwing in high profile prizes to.
Now I'm planning to actually throw a Xrd and Ultra tournament respectively but we'll see how that goes.
Back when SFIV was just blowing up, SF OT was Fighting GAF OT and there were 40+ regs along with OTs being in gaming. Nowadays, yeah right.
direct_quote
Member
I could see Ultra bringing in enough for a tourney but could we have one just for bragging rights in the next couple of months. Doesn't have to be for a prize (or like GafBats or something). Guess I'm just hungry for SSF4 now for some reason >_< (if only marvel netcode was passable).
Shit, is this SRK? Making snide comments based on when people joined? I didn't mean any malice in my previous post.
You tried testing the waters and said there wasn't any interest in what you're offering. Were they aware that you're hoping to incorporate sponsors, commentary and some sort of technology in the future? You'll get people who are interested simply because they enjoy playing the game but some people just don't give a shit unless you offer something that appeals to them. Some people may like whatever prize you're offering while others won't. Some people may like having commentary on their matches so they can learn from their mistakes while others couldn't care less about it. Maybe people like to play for recognition? Being recognized by a particular sponsor could fulfill their need.
Try and find out what people want in a tournament and see if your resources can actually fulfill their needs.
Passive Assassin
Member
ggs rice.
DAT DAN THOUGH!!!!
DAT DAN THOUGH!!!!
No I'm totally dumb as a rock and that I don't beat it into people's heads over and over on things when I want and have something done for me.
I'm not even going to bother answering and explaining your comments because if you were around would know the answers to that. And because you weren't around to see is why you are saying these things in the first place. One thing I hate is when people tell me what to do when one, they have no experience in doing it themselves and two, they actually talk like they know the situation.
I'm not even going to bother answering and explaining your comments because if you were around would know the answers to that. And because you weren't around to see is why you are saying these things in the first place. One thing I hate is when people tell me what to do when one, they have no experience in doing it themselves and two, they actually talk like they know the situation.
Rice-Eater
Member
I got so angry in that last round of the last game because of all the input misses. Don't know if it was lag or just me but I didn't get my st. MP into shoulder when you focused me and then landed Ultra. I didn't get my EX red focus after hit confirming a shoulder. And then you won with a throw because I didn't get my up kicks when I dive kicked and mashed it. Too bad we can't play when I'm in Sac, it would be more fulfilling then online where I'm always terrified to miss my links.
Passive Assassin
Member
yea that was pretty weird. i thought you were going to move to stockton?
AkumaHokoru
Member
we also ran 3 ranbats (all of which finished with at least 50% of the participants)
Rice-Eater
Member
Not moving there, just getting married there because that's where she is from. I'll be there next week but have no time to do anything else.
Passive Assassin
Member
ah. got it.
You're right that I don't know much about this particular situation. Which is why I asked if people were aware of what you're trying to accomplish. It wouldn't hurt to clarify the situation instead of resorting to "you weren't around".
In regards to my experience, I've worked on numerous projects for a couple of big companies. They weren't tournaments but were much bigger in scale. I know a thing or two about organizing an event or launching a product.
Passive Assassin
Member
oh yea rice. how unsafe is that eryu target combo? it really looks unsafe.
I don't have to clarify anything when the proof is in the pudding and use of common sense will tell you what I say is true. Look at the OTs of every fighting game thread. Look at the people posting in FGW. Pay attention to see if they are actually playing the games, what they are talking about, what they are interested in, etc. I don't have to say a single word and the people that have been here just as long knows what I'm talking about.
USF4 for PS4 makes great sense if SF5 isn't coming for a long while.
That said, PC version ensures that SF4 will last, so I'm not too worried about it either way.
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