biosnake20
Member
Ryu is gonna be awesome in 2012.
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Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition |OT4| Daigo Who?
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
biosnake20
Member
By awesome I mean high tier. Hes just as good as super ryu, maybe even better. All hes really missing from super is the roflcopter tatsu. But in 2012 hes got the more damaging fireball and one hit fierce dp.Your right though, awesome might be too strong of a word lol.Timedog said:
Rice-Eater
Member
biosnake20 said:
I'd take Super Ryu over AE 2K12 Ryu. It's basically the Coward Copter vs Useless CH combos, Vanilla SRK(minus the benefits of having it), and a slightly more damaging fireball. Neither version really stands out IMO, so it just depends on your play style. If you have no reactions like me to anti air jump ins then vanilla DP doesn't really benefit you. CH combos are practically useless, this won't convince anybody to use U2 and Ryu isn't a character in desperate need of a sweep combo. Slightly more damaging fireball is nice since you will be chucking a lot of those. But escaping corners with the coward copter, I'm all for that. It's easy to do and very hard to punish.
If they gave us AE Ryu with none of those 2K12 buffs besides the return of Super trap, he'd be the best version of Ryu since Vanilla. That's how insignificant those buffs are IMO. Nice to have, but in the grand scheme of things they're nothing special.
biosnake20
Member
I still dont understand why some characters still have the roflcopter. Ken can do it with ex and I think sakura can do it too. And also getting the super crouch forward back is nice.
Unless they changed shit from before ( I don't know, I never play as Ken), Ken has SUPER roflcopter because he can kara his air tatsu. How the fuck are they going to let someone kara a fucking air move? How does that make sense? It's not like he has an air step kick or some move that propels him forward in the air (that would break the laws of physics!)
That would be sweet if Oni could kara-kara-air raging demon, by plinking the input for his air dash while simultaneously inputting raging demon.
That would be sweet if Oni could kara-kara-air raging demon, by plinking the input for his air dash while simultaneously inputting raging demon.
Dan is definitely better than people think. His frame traps and his tatsu shenanigans are very hard for some of the cast to deal with. The thing is, very few people play Dan, much less to his full potential, so he is seen as a worthless joke character. Huge misconception, in my opinion.
That said, there is no way he occupies a space anywhere other than low tier. Yeah he has a great dp and a gdlk tatsu, but that is offset by his shitty normals and shitty fireball. This means that Dan has to get close to win, and when he gets close his shitty normals means he has to rely heavily on tatsu/dp/throw guessing game gimmicks. Which works fine on a few characters, but not on most. Not enough to put him in mid tier.
The only way Dan is going to consistently beat a mid-upper tier character is if the Dan player is on some whole other level, or the other player just sucks. His new buffs might help him a bit, but I think he will be at the bottom end of mid tier at best in 2012.
And goddammit Ryu's roflcopter HAD to go. You can't tell me that Gief chasing Ryu down for a full round only for him to easily fly away to safety was good design. That shit needed to go, and as far as I'm concerned Sak's and Ken's need to go too.
That said, there is no way he occupies a space anywhere other than low tier. Yeah he has a great dp and a gdlk tatsu, but that is offset by his shitty normals and shitty fireball. This means that Dan has to get close to win, and when he gets close his shitty normals means he has to rely heavily on tatsu/dp/throw guessing game gimmicks. Which works fine on a few characters, but not on most. Not enough to put him in mid tier.
The only way Dan is going to consistently beat a mid-upper tier character is if the Dan player is on some whole other level, or the other player just sucks. His new buffs might help him a bit, but I think he will be at the bottom end of mid tier at best in 2012.
And goddammit Ryu's roflcopter HAD to go. You can't tell me that Gief chasing Ryu down for a full round only for him to easily fly away to safety was good design. That shit needed to go, and as far as I'm concerned Sak's and Ken's need to go too.
Rice-Eater
Member
Satyamdas said:
Yeah that does kind of suck for Gief players, but what I hate more is how he has such an easy anti-air that is a one stop solution for every kind of jump in. And it doesn't require him to let go of block or do any kind of motion, all he has to do is press 3 buttons(or just one if you map it).
Would it be too much to ask Capcom to change it to a normal DP motion or some kind of motion since it's such a high priority anti-air(not sure how much if any invincibility it has). Yeah I know that isn't going to happen. I guess I'm just kind of bitter that every decent Gief player I come across, I can never jump at them because of that one move. I mean lets say you face 100 Ryu's over 2k pp, maybe a third of them can reliably anti-air your jump ins. You face 100 Zangief's and about 90% to all can reliably anti-air your jump ins. Again it's probably my bitterness, but I feel like this character more then any other depends so much on one move. Without that lariat(command throw or not), he'd get rushed down just like Hakan or Hawk. But I guess that's the point, Capcom doesn't want us to be able to rush Gief down or mix him up.
Red Liquorice
Member
Now 2012 is on it's way, I think I see now why they made AE the way they did with the overpowered additional characters. I remember them (Ono, I guess) saying something like they wanted the new characters to be overpowered to extend the life of the game. At the time this didn't seem to make sense, but now they're rebalancing again, well I see they have extended the life of the game - if they had tamed the new characters originally in AE, there may not have been a 2012?
Rice-Eater
Member
Hitokage said:
Ok, that was badly worded. When I say that I don't mean safe jumps. It starts up in 4 frames so I guess you could technically safe jump it, but that would probably be kind of hard and very risky if you time it wrong. Basically I'm talking about situations where you just randomly jump at him, or you're close to him and go for a cross up, or a ambiguous cross up on his wake up. None of these work against Gief.
Rice-Eater
Member
Hitokage said:
Would it beat him clean though or would it still trade? It wouldn't be worth it if it traded of course. I'll experiment some more, but I haven't heard about any shoto type jump in attacks that could actually stuff Gief's crouch lariat.
Corky said:
I'm actually excited about AE2K12 Blanka. What's been a pain to me since vanilla is that my character can't punish EX upball even on block without super(Ryu). And it's the same with AE with my current character Evil Ryu. At least now he'll have to be careful before thinking he can do EX up ball regardless of block or hit against every character instead of just some.
That is a really weird complaint. Yeah lariat is really good and easy to input, but Gief is one of the most easily zoned characters in the game, and jumping in on him SHOULD be a bad idea. He has a hell of a time getting in on characters, and you think he should also have a shitty wakeup? The easy input of lariat and the move itself fit in perfectly with Gief's design, which is "stay as far away from this fucker as you can".
sixteen-bit
Member
IIRC Abel's jump LP can stuff lariat clean.
Rice-Eater
Member
Satyamdas said:
If by shitty wake up, you mean making lariat not a braindead input then yeah I kind of wish that. Hell, I don't care if he has 10 frames of invincibility on that move as long as he has to do a DP command. Although that might actually make him better when it comes to high level play. But it's not a demand or anything like that, I just find it annoying and am venting about it.
But hey, if any Gief ever says "what about your characters move, I hate it so much". I'll gladly play the "I won't do this move if you don't do this move matches" lol.
dragonballjoseph
Member
Sakura's fireball and wake up is garbage. She needs it. Ken has his because it's part of his derp.Satyamdas said:
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Obsessed with 4chan
FindMyFarms said:Anyways, I have no problem taking up that mantle with Dan for 2012He's a great character being held back by stigma, which is why no one really plays him. Almost similar to cammy's case really when people thought she sucked in vanilla because she didn't play like her cvs2 version.
Do that shit. The world needs more high level Dan play.
BotoxAgent
Member
Dan vs Cammy matchup is 6-4 according to James Chen, never forget, lol
Okay, seriously.
I keep getting SRK's when trying to do a tatsu at the end of a combo.
Why? BECAUSE QUARTER CIRCLE BACKWARDS, THEN FORWARD, THEN PUNCH MAKES A DRAGON PUNCH COME OUT. It's also happens completely fucking randomly, like it's a bug. I did this motion with perfect inputs 3 times in a row in training mode, at the same speed, and only one out of those 3 times did dragon punch come out.
d, db, b, f, punch
What this means is that when I'm doing a combo such as [cr.lk, cr. lp, cr. hp, tatsu], if I let my stick go back to neutral after the quarter circle backwards, and the stick bounces back to neutral too hard/fast as it often does, creating an extra forward input, and this forward input comes out 1 frame or more before the kick button on the tatsu, a fucking dragon punch is gonna come out.
And the dragon punch isn't gonna get fucking combo because you have to input that shit faster than you have to input tatsu if you want it to cancel.
d, db, b, f, punch
Thanks Crapcom. This shit happened in one of my ranbat matches last night, which is why I'm upset about it. I've considered buying a non-sanwa joystick if it would fix the problem, but apparently no one in this thread knows anything about joysticks cause I've asked like 4 times already. I'll try the 3S thread and see if they're more knowledgable.
I keep getting SRK's when trying to do a tatsu at the end of a combo.
Why? BECAUSE QUARTER CIRCLE BACKWARDS, THEN FORWARD, THEN PUNCH MAKES A DRAGON PUNCH COME OUT. It's also happens completely fucking randomly, like it's a bug. I did this motion with perfect inputs 3 times in a row in training mode, at the same speed, and only one out of those 3 times did dragon punch come out.
d, db, b, f, punch
What this means is that when I'm doing a combo such as [cr.lk, cr. lp, cr. hp, tatsu], if I let my stick go back to neutral after the quarter circle backwards, and the stick bounces back to neutral too hard/fast as it often does, creating an extra forward input, and this forward input comes out 1 frame or more before the kick button on the tatsu, a fucking dragon punch is gonna come out.
And the dragon punch isn't gonna get fucking combo because you have to input that shit faster than you have to input tatsu if you want it to cancel.
d, db, b, f, punch
Thanks Crapcom. This shit happened in one of my ranbat matches last night, which is why I'm upset about it. I've considered buying a non-sanwa joystick if it would fix the problem, but apparently no one in this thread knows anything about joysticks cause I've asked like 4 times already. I'll try the 3S thread and see if they're more knowledgable.
xxxstylzxxx
Member
Hakan vs. The World volume 37: Arcade Edition
With all the talk of low tier viability I figured I'd post this for the Hakan mains in SFGaf
. I won't bother debating about whether or not he's the worst character in AE being that we're basically 2 months away from the 2012 update and all that but I'll always feel that he's had more going for him than people think. All I know is that once you understand the intricacies of his design Hakan is an incredibly fun character to play.
Match 1 vs. Hakan- 1:44
Match 2 vs. DeeJay- 4:08
Match 3 vs. Guile- 6:09
Match 4 vs. Ryu- 10:03
2 set vs. Zangief- 13:30
2 set vs. Ken- 19:35
3 set vs. Vega- 24:49
3 set vs. Sagat- 34:07
3 set vs. DeeJay- 40:12
3 set vs. Guile- 47:27
5 set vs. C. Viper- 54:30
With all the talk of low tier viability I figured I'd post this for the Hakan mains in SFGaf
all 2 of you
Match 1 vs. Hakan- 1:44
Match 2 vs. DeeJay- 4:08
Match 3 vs. Guile- 6:09
Match 4 vs. Ryu- 10:03
2 set vs. Zangief- 13:30
2 set vs. Ken- 19:35
3 set vs. Vega- 24:49
3 set vs. Sagat- 34:07
3 set vs. DeeJay- 40:12
3 set vs. Guile- 47:27
5 set vs. C. Viper- 54:30
sixteen-bit
Member
Is there any reason Evo moments are named out of number order?USD said:
Short interview with Kayo Police by Japonawa, from EVO
Spanish subtitles, thought the questions themselves are in English.
Spanish subtitles, thought the questions themselves are in English.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
sixteen-bit
Member
karakusahitbox.jpg
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
_dementia said:
That would be applicable if this was Super, but in AE ex karakusa has the same range as hk karakusa.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Just because a move is good and/or you have trouble with it doesn't mean that the move is broken. Just because an approach works in one match-up doesn't mean that it works for all of them.Rice-Eater said:
You aren't supposed to "randomly jump" at Zangief. You zone and footsie him to death. Lariat is a good move, but it has a clear hurtbox weakness as mentioned above and is baitable, to boot.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Nyoro SF said:
Really? Wow.
Cody b-mpRice-Eater said:
Sakura/Guile/Boxer/Ryu/Akuma/etc. cr. hp
The list goes on.
And it's easy to beat lariat. You just have to learn the matchup.
Yeah, a lot of people use this in situations where they don't want to do ex seismo feint (or whatever). One of the Arkansas Vipers found this out in vanilla but only did it occasionally because he didn't have the execution for it.Nyoro SF said:
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
SmokeMaxX said:
It's only the fierce one, I guess?
I do fierce feint nonsense to you all the time fragment. Yeah, the first few frames of fierce tk are fully invincible. That's a good setup too, I hadn't actually thought that much about the makoto matchup.
If I replaced fierce with strong I could probably option select ex seismo the overhead chop too. Damn you got my mind spinning with setups frag, you're the man.
That might even catch backdashes too. That would be so sweet.
If I replaced fierce with strong I could probably option select ex seismo the overhead chop too. Damn you got my mind spinning with setups frag, you're the man.
That might even catch backdashes too. That would be so sweet.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
rbrogue said:
Yeah, you mostly do them when I'm trying crossup tsuguri shenanigans though, unless I just wasn't paying enough attention.
Timedog said:
Adding a second spring or a stiffer one in a sanwa is one way to go at it. Seimitsu sticks do have shorter throws and stiffer springs so you can go with it too. If you have a TE you can get drop in replacements easily on the net.
One thing I find odd is how you manage to get an srk out of that combo. I have sloppy execution and even then I don't get fucked by negative edge. Anyway, it's not my place to critique execution issues.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Timedog said:
Don't jump in on Gief?
You have to hit Gief on the top of his head and your hurt box be above his arms to knock him out of lariat it seems (or it will trade). I have been hit out of lariat lots of times.
Alot of attacks do this. I think E.Ryu and Ryu jumping HP do this. Adon's jump straight up MK and HK and jumping HK do this too. Just think of air moves that punch him the head before his arms touch you. If you jump in wrong on Gief, you should get hit by lariat.
As for moves that beat it clean on priority when you are at the spinning arm levels (or a meaty lariat when you are jumping in), I don't know.
SmokeMaxX said:
You quoted Rice-Eater talking about how Zangief has braindead move against jump in attacks, then responded with a bunch of moves that are ground attacks and said that it's easy to beat lariat. Your response didn't make sense with what you quoted.
Rice-Eater said:
Professor Beef
Banned
He wanted to know what jump-in attacks beat lariat.SmokeMaxX said:
Lariat is easy to stuff from the air as it is anyways if you know how to hit Gief's head.
It isn't "easy" to beat lariat, but it takes knowledge. My Honda/Zangief match got a million times better once I realized that neutral jump fierce beat lariat as long as you weren't too close. Of course smart Zangief's would start punishing that shit with EX hand or standing roundhouse, but of course how many smart Zangiefs are on XBL?
the problem with a jump in attack vs lariat is you have to hit so high in the air in order to beat it that you have little time to land and start a combo while he's still in hitstun. With an light or medium attack you probably won't be able to combo, and have to play the reversal spd guessing game once you land.