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[Lostconfused]

Haven't visited this thread in a few days after bitching about my failures with Abel. Thinking about it, maybe I should just play Ken. It seems like a very simple and straight forward character to play to pick up the basics of this game. Which I clearly seem to lack. Thanks for everyone's advice and encouragement that did reply to my whinig.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Haven't visited this thread in a few days after bitching about my failures with Abel. Thinking about it, maybe I should just play Ken. It seems like a very simple and straight forward character to play to pick up the basics of this game. Which I clearly seem to lack. Thanks for everyone's advice and encouragement that did reply to my whinig.

Did you consider trying Yun?

 

[AkumaHokoru]

Give her Alpha 2 Soul Illusion.

Yang has it.

 

[Lostconfused]

Did you consider trying Yun?

Is the character going to undergo drastic changes in the ballance patch? Hearing they are OP and thinking they might be nerfed soon is the reason that is keeping me away from them. Otherwise I just a slightly better idea of how Ken plays than Yun. Either way I would apperciate a good intro guide/thread. The ones on SRK tend to be very specific and assume familiarity with characters or previous SF games and I have no idea where to start.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Is the character going to undergo drastic changes in the ballance patch?

I hope not D:
Bring everyone else to his level instead of bringing him down, I say!

also, I played Alpha 2 and what the fuck
Guy needs his walk speed back.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I hope not D:
Bring everyone else to his level instead of bringing him down, I say!

also, I played Alpha 2 and what the fuck
Guy needs his walk speed back.

That would be nice, I remember when Seth Killian said that they were buffing everybody to Sagats level in Super and that Sagat got better in super. Its just easier for them to nerf the top it seems.

 

[sixteen-bit]

That would be nice, I remember when Seth Killian said that they were buffing everybody to Sagats level in Super and that Sagat got better in super. Its just easier for them to nerf the top it seems.

Yeah, I suppose it's more realistic to expect the same will happen here.

I wonder how they'll nerf him. Even if they reduce his damage output, he still has ridiculous options. Increase startup on command grab I guess?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Yeah, I suppose it's more realistic to expect the same will happen here.

I wonder how they'll nerf him. Even if they reduce his damage output, he still has ridiculous options. Increase startup on command grab I guess?

I was thinking they may increase the startup on the commandgrab, not sure how useful it will be then though, but its probably for the best. They could make command grab do 1 point of gray damage, they did this to gouken and really fucked up his backthrow. I wouldn't be surprised if they took off the throw invincibility on it as well. Maybe reduce the size of the hitbox on palm so that jumpins can sometimes beat it, ch palm is a bitch.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

Fuck Bison.

=)

 

[Killa Sasa]

It's going to be nerf city I think. They've always said characters are going to get better, but the majority of them get nerfed. I think Makoto and Sakura are the only ones who've always gone up?

Viper and the HK 3 are probably gonna be in trouble.

I wish they would buff all the characters to be good in spite of truly bad matchups coming out of it. It just makes the game have a "sense of urgency" for lack of a better phrase. Every character should be as powerful in their own way as Makoto is in hers ^_^

A game full of Makoto-levels with bad matchups >>> a game full of Gouken's and Cody's that can all hang with each other.

 

[Yoshichan]

As a Yun player, I hope they'll nerf the command grab.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too good, bro.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Fix Short Swing Blow and I might take this game seriously.

 

[stabicron7]

Fuck Bison.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Capcom obviously have no idea what to do with Rose. U2 was slightly OP and a band-aid for her lack of a real wake-up move to get people off of her that many complained about and still left her high B tier at best. So they take that away and give her nothing at all in return even weakening some of her normals.

I have little faith but we will see.

It's the same thing that happened with Breathless, the move was utterly useless against the vast majority of the cast but vital in a few of his bad match-ups. However because people didn't know how to get out/avoid it and complained like hell it got nerfed. Meaning the whilst Gief/Abel was pretty close to 5/5 in Super it now feels like it's at least 6/4. Hell, Abel's terrible now because of his match-ups with the twins/Fei/Gief. Then to top it all off it's ludicrous that TT received damage nerfs when Yun/Fei/Yang have command grabs that do more damage than TT in super and that's without meter.

I can't stand either of my characters right now because they feel so helpless against the top tier. It's as though not only can they pull off my characters specialities better than they can, but they can do so much more along with it.

 

[SamVimes]

Abel's damage nerf was good, U2 and chp was uncalled for. At least get the startup back, it's enough that against Honda the bnb doesn't work if it's not full range, at least let Abel punish headbutts.

 

[Onion_Relish]

HAH, WHAT WEAKNESS

I'm on that shin bison shit right now, i feel like im playing better now than I ever did. I wouldnt mind seeing Bison have some of his active frames increased on Cl. HP, But he is a good character and other than balrog, probably the least changed since vanilla.

Also, does anyone know how to make me better at quarter circles? the backwards quarter circle is fine, but the 1p qcf i have real trouble with for some reason. I've never been a command character user, but I used juri in the randoms and i want to get in on some of her shit. That being said, i want to actually be able to throw fireballs on both sides of the screen. But yeah, she has regular 300-350 combos with awesome mobility and great tools for all ranges of spacing, so i need to develop some hand skills.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I think I'm going to learn to play bison just so I can put up with his bullshit. Worked for learning to beat dudleys, difference being I actually wanted to learn to play dudley.

It's the same thing that happened with Breathless, the move was utterly useless against the vast majority of the cast but vital in a few of his bad match-ups. However because people didn't know how to get out/avoid it and complained like hell it got nerfed. Meaning the whilst Gief/Abel was pretty close to 5/5 in Super it now feels like it's at least 6/4. Hell, Abel's terrible now because of his match-ups with the twins/Fei/Gief. Then to top it all off it's ludicrous that TT received damage nerfs when Yun/Fei/Yang have command grabs that do more damage than TT in super and that's without meter.

I can't stand either of my characters right now because they feel so helpless against the top tier. It's as though not only can they pull off my characters specialities better than they can, but they can do so much more along with it.

Little known fact, when Gouken fights against Akuma, the song "anything you can do I can do better" is the bgm.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Meaning the whilst Gief/Abel was pretty close to 5/5 in Super it now feels like it's at least 6/4. Hell, Abel's terrible now because of his match-ups with the twins/Fei/Gief.

Rufus in vanilla had bad matchups against every character above him. That certainly didn't make him a terrible character.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Abel's damage nerf was good, U2 and chp was uncalled for. At least get the startup back, it's enough that against Honda the bnb doesn't work if it's not full range, at least let Abel punish headbutts.

I was asking how the nerfs makes sense in comparison to Yuns/Yangs/Fei/Makoto's command grab damage? I don't get how you could call it "good" in this game, why's it good?

U2 and cr.hp are just a mess. I mean why make a hitbox for a move even worse when the second hit already frequently missed on El Fuerte/Rog?

 

[biosnake20]

I think I'm going to learn to play bison just so I can put up with his bullshit. Worked for learning to beat dudleys, difference being I actually wanted to learn to play dudley.

Wanna learn bison?

There you go.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Wanna learn bison?

There you go.

in a nutshell. Walk up throw is pretty potent as well.

 

[SamVimes]

Rufus in vanilla had bad matchups against every character above him. That certainly didn't make him a terrible character.

Yeah... Abel loses terribly (7-3 easily) to Fei, Yun, Yang and Akuma. If that isn't enough he goes 4-6 against Viper and Zangief.

 

[Lost Fragment]

As a Yun player, I hope they'll nerf the command grab.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too good, bro.

I think the command grab is the thing that pushes the twins from "these characters are really damn good" to "these characters are completely fucking retarded."

 

[stabicron7]

I think the command grab is the thing that pushes the twins from "these characters are really damn good" to "these characters are completely fucking retarded."

Pretty much dive kick + command grab.......yeah retarded in a game without parry to keep them in check.

If people think otherwise ask yourself what would happen if they just gave Zangief a dive kick and allowed him to keep his spd *yes I know spd comes out faster, hardly matters when your in the dive kick guessing game*.

 

[biosnake20]

Yeah, the first time I played a yun in ae i thought to myself "hey, this guy has some OP shit but ill just play him like i play against rufus and ill be fine." Then I was grabbed by his ex command grab after two blocked crouch strongs. Then I was like "ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh, now i get it."

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Yeah... Abel loses terribly (7-3 easily) to Fei, Yun, Yang and Akuma. If that isn't enough he goes 4-6 against Viper and Zangief.

Yeah, the match compositions are utterly different. Sagat was rough for Rufus because it was tricky for him to get in, but when he managed to it was even if not in his favour. Not to forget that his messiah cancel (into ultra) was the best escape in the game. Abel's just fucked against those characters at any distance, and his escapes can be OSed so he'll be losing more health along with ex-meter if he tries to get out.

 

[SamVimes]

I was asking how the nerfs makes sense in comparison to Yuns/Yangs/Fei/Makoto's command grab damage? I don't get how you could call it "good" in this game, why's it good?

In comparison to Yun and Yang's it doesn't make any sense (what does?), but Fei's and Makoto's aren't nearly as easy to land, so they deserve more damage.
It's good because you can destroy a character already in a couple of guesses, so his damage had to be toned down a little all across the board.

 

[BotoxAgent]

herp derp! I am hiding my charge with standing forward and roundhouse.


bam! scissor kick

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Yeah... Abel loses terribly (7-3 easily) to Fei, Yun, Yang and Akuma. If that isn't enough he goes 4-6 against Viper and Zangief.

And he still mauls everyone else. The Cammy matchup is in his favor now.

Also, I recall Strider still saying Viper-Abel is 5-5.

 

[narcosis219]

It's going to be nerf city I think. They've always said characters are going to get better, but the majority of them get nerfed. I think Makoto and Sakura are the only ones who've always gone up?

Dudley's changes were 100% positive.

But short swing blow still sucks and he still has t-rex arms.

 

[SamVimes]

And he still mauls everyone else. The Cammy matchup is in his favor now.

No he doesn't (he's still a very good character tho) and no it isn't.

Also, I recall Strider still saying Viper-Abel is 5-5.

In AE?

Let's say it is and let's say he "mauls" everyone else (the only character he really destroy is Sim), he still loses BAD to all the top tier, how can you expect to go a tournament and place well without a secondary?
He's still good as ever, it's just that he's not viable at all.

 

[Onion_Relish]

in a nutshell. Walk up throw is pretty potent as well.

Bison has a bunch of throw set ups that are really hard to predict

1: Tick Throw
2: Mid range dash throw
3: Empty Jump Throw
4: Empty devils reverse throw
5: Cross up into tick throw
6: close range ex psycho crusher, dash towards throw. (only works if they quick rise)This one happens so fast it almost always works
7: In the corner, do a light psycho crusher and whiff it into throw. Because people are afraid of the tail cross up they will try to block it leaving themselves open for a throw
8: Slide fadc throw
9: cr lk cr lk cr lk scissors fadc throw

the list goes on and on. I throw fools all day and I dont even fucking care. I'll just walk up and throw you half the time. You no scare? I seriously no scare to throw

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I have little faith that capcom is going to do right by gouken, they don't even seem to know what kind of character he is. Poor defense, poor offense, mediocre zoning, gets steamrolled, has no favorable matchups.

Bison has a bunch of throw set ups that are really hard to predict

1: Tick Throw
2: Mid range dash throw
3: Empty Jump Throw
4: Empty devils reverse throw
5: Cross up into tick throw
6: close range ex psycho crusher, dash towards throw. (only works if they quick rise)This one happens so fast it almost always works
7: In the corner, do a light psycho crusher and whiff it into throw. Because people are afraid of the tail cross up they will try to block it leaving themselves open for a throw
8: Slide fadc throw
9: cr lk cr lk cr lk fadc throw

the list goes on and on. I throw fools all day and I dont even fucking care. I'll just walk up and throw you half the time. You no scare? I seriously no scare to throw

*takes notes.

 

[stabicron7]

I have little faith that capcom is going to do right by gouken, they don't even seem to know what kind of character he is. Poor defense, poor offense, mediocre zoning, gets steamrolled, has no favorable matchups.

No one knows what kinda character he is, even after two years. That's how bad Capcom screwed up on him.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Bison has a bunch of throw set ups that are really hard to predict

1: Tick Throw
2: Mid range dash throw
3: Empty Jump Throw
4: Empty devils reverse throw
5: Cross up into tick throw
6: close range ex psycho crusher, dash towards throw. (only works if they quick rise)This one happens so fast it almost always works
7: In the corner, do a light psycho crusher and whiff it into throw. Because people are afraid of the tail cross up they will try to block it leaving themselves open for a throw
8: Slide fadc throw
9: cr lk cr lk cr lk fadc throw

the list goes on and on. I throw fools all day and I dont even fucking care. I'll just walk up and throw you half the time. You no scare? I seriously no scare to throw

Holy shit. Good thing I mash DP every time.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Holy shit. Good thing I mash DP every time.

That is the real problem with bison maintaining pressure. When I knock down a shoto, i am too scared to set up frame traps and shit because I know that any move with start up invulnerability will knock me into the next century. That being said, if shotos are mashing dp, its just as easy to dash, block and punish. Good bison players wont eat too many DP's, but then again i'm not particularly good.

If you guys want me to teach you the hard way, just get at me anytime on that psn. You'll get thrown, i promise.

 

[Corky]

All this whining...

everybody pick blanka and forget about the rest of the cast :I

 

[vulva]

That is the real problem with bison maintaining pressure. When I knock down a shoto, i am too scared to set up frame traps and shit because I know that any move with start up invulnerability will knock me into the next century. That being said, if shotos are mashing dp, its just as easy to dash, block and punish. Good bison players wont eat too many DP's, but then again i'm not particularly good.

If you guys want me to teach you the hard way, just get at me anytime on that psn. You'll get thrown, i promise.

bison is free to chun ;(

 

[stabicron7]

bison is free to chun ;(

Not so much. He's free to Guile still though.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

That is the real problem with bison maintaining pressure. When I knock down a shoto, i am too scared to set up frame traps and shit because I know that any move with start up invulnerability will knock me into the next century. That being said, if shotos are mashing dp, its just as easy to dash, block and punish. Good bison players wont eat too many DP's, but then again i'm not particularly good.

If you guys want me to teach you the hard way, just get at me anytime on that psn. You'll get thrown, i promise.

I'll add you, I need to learn this matchup, bad.

 

[Onion_Relish]

bison is free to chun ;(

not free, but definately sometimes I feel like there just isn't anything I can do. Chun Li crouching fierce kick is bison kryptonite. Thankfully Bisons double MP is better than most of chun li's anti airs other than neutral hk. But yeah, If someone wants to beat me up as chun li, hit me up. I definately need the practice.

 

[vulva]

not free, but definately sometimes I feel like there just isn't anything I can do. Chun Li crouching fierce kick is bison kryptonite. Thankfully Bisons double MP is better than most of chun li's anti airs other than neutral hk. But yeah, If someone wants to beat me up as chun li, hit me up. I definately need the practice.

I'll play you sometime. I was that chun last night who did okay

 

[Sblargh]

All this whining...

everybody pick on blanka and forget about the rest of the cast :I

Fixed for agreeing on who we should all be hating.

 

[MIMIC]

Bison has a bunch of throw set ups that are really hard to predict

1: Tick Throw
2: Mid range dash throw
3: Empty Jump Throw
4: Empty devils reverse throw
5: Cross up into tick throw
6: close range ex psycho crusher, dash towards throw. (only works if they quick rise)This one happens so fast it almost always works
7: In the corner, do a light psycho crusher and whiff it into throw. Because people are afraid of the tail cross up they will try to block it leaving themselves open for a throw
8: Slide fadc throw
9: cr lk cr lk cr lk fadc throw

the list goes on and on. I throw fools all day and I dont even fucking care. I'll just walk up and throw you half the time. You no scare? I seriously no scare to throw

Holy shit. Good thing I mash DP every time.

hahahahahahahaha

 

[Professor Beef]

That is the real problem with bison maintaining pressure. When I knock down a shoto, i am too scared to set up frame traps and shit because I know that any move with start up invulnerability will knock me into the next century. That being said, if shotos are mashing dp, its just as easy to dash, block and punish. Good bison players wont eat too many DP's, but then again i'm not particularly good.

If you guys want me to teach you the hard way, just get at me anytime on that psn. You'll get thrown, i promise.

Add me please, since I'm not gonna be able to log into PSN for a little while.

"ProfessorBeef"

 

[Cloudius12]

Yo Hycran is free to my Bipson =P

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

All this whining...

everybody pick blanka and forget about the rest of the cast :I

I know, it's almost looking like the SRK boards here now...

With less cussing and racism, hehe

 

[BotoxAgent]

wakeup ex headstomp....i fall for it everytime, lol

 

[SamVimes]

How did the Bipson meme start?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

And he still mauls everyone else. The Cammy matchup is in his favor now.

Also, I recall Strider still saying Viper-Abel is 5-5.

Thank gosh my initial post wasn't focused on Abel being a chore to play due to him having terrible match-ups against top-tier characters, with his TT damage nerf being the icing on the cake giving how much damage they get off their command grabs.

I'd agree Viper's 5/5 as always it's first knockdown wins, am not sure about Cammy as I don't see anybody play her any more.

All this whining...

everybody pick blanka and forget about the rest of the cast :I

If you came back to XBox and solely picked Blanker against me I'd be much more content Corky...