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Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition |OT4| Daigo Who?

B

Beckx

Member
So for the people here who are good at teaching -

I've been teaching my kids and their friends to play the game. They all have a tendency to want to focus on the ultras, which is understandable because they're kids and the ultras look cool, but I'm trying to get them out of that. Also trying to get them out of the crazy stick spinning and button mashing. Mainly I'm just sitting down with them and trying to help them understand the basic motions in the game, without making it a chore, though.

If you have tips for teaching younger players while still keeping it fun lay em on me.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Beckx said:
So for the people here who are good at teaching -

I've been teaching my kids and their friends to play the game. They all have a tendency to want to focus on the ultras, which is understandable because they're kids and the ultras look cool, but I'm trying to get them out of that. Also trying to get them out of the crazy stick spinning and button mashing. Mainly I'm just sitting down with them and trying to help them understand the basic motions in the game, without making it a chore, though.

If you have tips for teaching younger players while still keeping it fun lay em on me.
Click to expand...

no dinner until they can dp fadc ultra 100x without failing, both from p1 and p2 side.

i can't even fadc ultra 3x in a row lol
 
B

Beckx

Member
LOL. I don't want them to find out I can't even do a FADC ultra. They've already found out I can't do links because of Challenges. :p
 
V

Venfayth

Member
Well, people are going to enjoy things in whatever ways they want. You're not going to be able to force someone to enjoy playing the game in a solid way. You can show them how actually playing the game will lead to victory, though.

Ideally what you want is to get them asking "how are you winning all the time?", because that indicates that they actually want to win. If they have no drive to win, you won't be able to teach them anything, really.

At that point, I would slow down and start going over fundamentals. Really basic stuff like movement, showing what things aren't safe, etc.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Venfayth said:
Well, people are going to enjoy things in whatever ways they want. You're not going to be able to force someone to enjoy playing the game in a solid way. You can show them how actually playing the game will lead to victory, though.

Ideally what you want is to get them asking "how are you winning all the time?", because that indicates that they actually want to win. If they have no drive to win, you won't be able to teach them anything, really.

At that point, I would slow down and start going over fundamentals. Really basic stuff like movement, showing what things aren't safe, etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've found it's a fine line, my son found he can beat his friends just by hitting Claw's HP, but then when he plays my daughter (2 years older, is starting to get a handle on playing Zangief enough to make me have to play a bit more seriously against her) she destroys that stuff. The nice thing was his response was to go into training, find out that he liked Yun, and start working on his moves.

They all want to learn, which is good. I wish Capcom would update (and improve) Challenge mode.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
I think you should totally teach them how to land their character's ultras, and how to do good damage for punishes (how to special cancel and link). People do focus on combos too much, but it's still important as they'll be doing unsafe shit at this stage, and punishing unsafe stuff hard is the quickest way to get someone to stop doing it. Then bring in how to apply mind games, and stop them from doing nothing but using specials over and over. Teach them how to block, and the importance of stage position (stay out of the corner, kids!)

I think introducing things like footsies, spacing, frame advantage, whiff punishing etc. should be done when they have a solid base of the game.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Beckx said:
Yeah, I've found it's a fine line, my son found he can beat his friends just by hitting Claw's HP, but then when he plays my daughter (2 years older, is starting to get a handle on playing Zangief enough to make me have to play a bit more seriously against her) she destroys that stuff. The nice thing was his response was to go into training, find out that he liked Yun, and start working on his moves.

They all want to learn, which is good. I wish Capcom would update (and improve) Challenge mode.
Click to expand...

also, ground them if they want to main blanka.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Teaching how to block has been the toughest thing because it also involves teaching to stop hitting buttons. Thinking about trying to have them go into a match and "win" if they can manage to block a certain string of jumping, crouching and overhead moves a few times.

My son's best friend picked Blanka. He's banned.

Edit: one cool moment - my son says to me "I know when you're going to attack, I hear you hitting a button."
 
B

black_vegeta

Member
Venfayth said:
Well, people are going to enjoy things in whatever ways they want. You're not going to be able to force someone to enjoy playing the game in a solid way. You can show them how actually playing the game will lead to victory, though.

Ideally what you want is to get them asking "how are you winning all the time?", because that indicates that they actually want to win. If they have no drive to win, you won't be able to teach them anything, really.

At that point, I would slow down and start going over fundamentals. Really basic stuff like movement, showing what things aren't safe, etc.
Click to expand...

*prepares :B's when Greg comes into the irc chat.*
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Beckx said:
Teaching how to block has been the toughest thing because it also involves teaching to stop hitting buttons. Thinking about trying to have them go into a match and "win" if they can manage to block a certain string of jumping, crouching and overhead moves a few times.

My son's best friend picked Blanka. He's banned.

Edit: one cool moment - my son says to me "I know when you're going to attack, I hear you hitting a button."
Click to expand...

lol

how old are your kids, btw?

i would actually suggest them learning charge characters to get them into the habit of holding the stick in a direction away from the opponent. it can also help with learning footsies and spacing (bipson) and some patience (honda).
 
B

Beckx

Member
kevo_huevo said:
lol

how old are your kids, btw?

i would actually suggest them learning charge characters to get them into the habit of holding the stick in a direction away from the opponent. it can also help with learning footsies and spacing (bipson) and some patience (honda).
Click to expand...

7/9/11 (obvious differences in what they can learn based on age, but youngest will be damned if his siblings are going to play something he's not)

Good suggestion about charge characters, will try that.
 
K

Kioshen

Member
Beckx said:
So for the people here who are good at teaching -

I've been teaching my kids and their friends to play the game. They all have a tendency to want to focus on the ultras, which is understandable because they're kids and the ultras look cool, but I'm trying to get them out of that. Also trying to get them out of the crazy stick spinning and button mashing. Mainly I'm just sitting down with them and trying to help them understand the basic motions in the game, without making it a chore, though.

If you have tips for teaching younger players while still keeping it fun lay em on me.
Click to expand...

You have Skullgirls ... make them run through the tutorial mode especially the blocking mix ups one.
 
B

black_vegeta

Member
jlai said:
Jlai Souls Own List:

1. Greg
2. Ven
3. Pass_ass
4. BV Sagat
Click to expand...

Dat 4th place

pD4GU.png
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Venfayth said:
Supposed to be according to who? Internet people?

--

Karsticles: @juri
Click to expand...
Thank you for all that!

Moving forward with b.LK is pretty much always better than dashing, right?

Beckx said:
So for the people here who are good at teaching -

I've been teaching my kids and their friends to play the game. They all have a tendency to want to focus on the ultras, which is understandable because they're kids and the ultras look cool, but I'm trying to get them out of that. Also trying to get them out of the crazy stick spinning and button mashing. Mainly I'm just sitting down with them and trying to help them understand the basic motions in the game, without making it a chore, though.

If you have tips for teaching younger players while still keeping it fun lay em on me.
Click to expand...
The most important thing is to get the kids into the mindset where they want to learn the game at a deeper level. Generally, this means engaging the part of them that wants to win. Are you playing? If you are destroying them every few times, that can help because kids naturally want to be like their parents (if they're healthy), and kids also naturally want to be good at things. So you have two motivational forces then.

It's not a bad idea to simply go up to your younger son and say "Do you want me to teach you how to beat your older sibling ever time?" It is the dream of every younger child to outdo the older child. If the younger child starts to win, that will encourage the others to learn to play as well.

Don't pick a character for them, pick a character that they want to learn. Learn how to use that character yourself so you can train them. Go into training mode and set up theoretical situations to show them how things work, and let them repeat what you taught them against you so they can see how effective it is in practice. Kids need practicality.

Beckx said:
Teaching how to block has been the toughest thing because it also involves teaching to stop hitting buttons. Thinking about trying to have them go into a match and "win" if they can manage to block a certain string of jumping, crouching and overhead moves a few times.

My son's best friend picked Blanka. He's banned.

Edit: one cool moment - my son says to me "I know when you're going to attack, I hear you hitting a button."
Click to expand...
Don't ban characters - make them learn.

Kioshen said:
You have Skullgirls ... make them run through the tutorial mode especially the blocking mix ups one.
Click to expand...
Making people sit alone at a tutorial is bad teaching.
 
K

Kioshen

Member
Karsticles said:
Making people sit alone at a tutorial is bad teaching.
Click to expand...

Good point but I never said to let them do it alone. It is a very good guide with lots of helpful text and scenarios. He could at least base his teachings on the topic it covers too but using the SF4 engine.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Kioshen said:
Good point but I never said to let them do it alone. It is a very good guide with lots of helpful text and scenarios. He could at least base his teachings on the topic it covers too but using the SF4 engine.
Click to expand...
Reading and playing against the AI is doing it alone. Teaching is best done through interactivity. There's nothing he can't teach that the the tutorials can while doing it better. Tutorials are a symptom of a disconnected community. No one needed that stuff back in the day.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Karsticles said:
The most important thing is to get the kids into the mindset where they want to learn the game at a deeper level. Generally, this means engaging the part of them that wants to win. Are you playing? If you are destroying them every few times, that can help because kids naturally want to be like their parents (if they're healthy), and kids also naturally want to be good at things. So you have two motivational forces then.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I try to walk that tightrope playing them. Most matches I try to give them room to play and see what they can do, then for the next match tell them I'm going all out. My daughter responds really well, really focusing on the goal of beating me fair and square. My youngest asked me to do that in matches last night, and then after a scissors kick into super from Bison turned around, smiled the little kid smile and said "okay maybe not."

It's not a bad idea to simply go up to your younger son and say "Do you want me to teach you how to beat your older sibling ever time?" It is the dream of every younger child to outdo the older child. If the younger child starts to win, that will encourage the others to learn to play as well.
Click to expand...

Great idea (though my wife will cringe at the fights that will ensue).

Don't pick a character for them, pick a character that they want to learn. Learn how to use that character yourself so you can train them. Go into training mode and set up theoretical situations to show them how things work, and let them repeat what you taught them against you so they can see how effective it is in practice. Kids need practicality.


Don't ban characters - make them learn.
Click to expand...

Heh, we didn't really ban blanka, was just joking (and meant to imply that we banned the kid :))
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Beckx said:
Yeah, I try to walk that tightrope playing them. Most matches I try to give them room to play and see what they can do, then for the next match tell them I'm going all out. My daughter responds really well, really focusing on the goal of beating me fair and square. My youngest asked me to do that in matches last night, and then after a scissors kick into super from Bison turned around, smiled the little kid smile and said "okay maybe not."
Click to expand...
Cool. Personally, I learn by memorizing a few normals at a time. Like for Guile, I started out just knowing three things about him:
1) Sonic Boom!
2) Flash Kick!
3) c.HP

And my first set of matches, that's all I did with him. I try to figure out the few moves that are part of a character's backbone game and learn them as my basis. That gives me a chance against other players if I make smarter decisions than them.

Then, I add in a few more situational moves. b.LK to push forward while holding a charge, f.MP and c.MK for mix-ups after a blocker Sonic Boom.

Now that my basic neutral game is established, I start looking into things like mix-ups. I just learned Guile's cross-up jump-in two days ago (j.LK). So I try to work that into my game more instead of just throwing another Sonic Boom when I get a knockdown.

Basically, I start from something very basic and just keep adding in a new feature here or there. Combos are absolutely the last thing I learn with any character, because they're just so unimportant compared to the neutral game. Any good game will let good fundamentals win over a fancy combo (even Marvel).

Your kids might not learn the same way I do, but that is what I have found works the best for me. If your kids are playing non-fireball characters, I would start them off on:
1) Learning one important special move.
2) Learning one long-range poke.
3) Learning one anti-air.

That's a good starting place for any Street Fighter character.

Basically, my way of approaching character learning is this: when starting out, you encounter a LOT of unfamiliar situations. Knowing how an individual's brain handles unknown situations helps you understand what you should feed them as the basics. For me, when I encounter unfamiliar situations, I tend to try and create space and control the space around me. So giving me the tools to better do that helps me have a safe "play space" to learn from. As long as I can establish a field of safety for my character, I can start to experiment with things, and I know that I have hypothetical answers to what my opponent does.

Wild thought: people who turtle when they get nervous eventually play zoners or keepaway. People who mash buttons when they get nervous eventually play rushdown characters. I don't think it's a coincidence that people who play keepaway/zoning tend to have excellent blocking ability - they're already inclined to approach the game from a defensive perspective.

Great idea (though my wife will cringe at the fights that will ensue).
Click to expand...
Psh, it's all in good health. I obviously don't know your kids, but I've never met two brothers that don't compete at every level possible.

Heh, we didn't really ban blanka, was just joking (and meant to imply that we banned the kid :))
Click to expand...
Hahahaha, I dig.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Your kids might not learn the same way I do, but that is what I have found works the best for me. If your kids are playing non-fireball characters, I would start them off on:
1) Learning one important special move.
2) Learning one long-range poke.
3) Learning one anti-air.

That's a good starting place for any Street Fighter character.
Click to expand...

This is a great starter list. I should post this by the sticks.

Nice thing about being a kid is that you get a ton of time to just play and learn at your own pace, and once they learn the basics here it opens up a world of cool games for them. And I always get matches. What's the point in having kids if not local multiplayer?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Beckx said:
This is a great starter list. I should post this by the sticks.

Nice thing about being a kid is that you get a ton of time to just play and learn at your own pace, and once they learn the basics here it opens up a world of cool games for them. And I always get matches. What's the point in having kids if not local multiplayer?
Click to expand...
Thank you.

I'm moving to Colorado in two weeks, and my sister and her husband are there. I'm totally pumped for 4 player Mario Bros. She also just had a baby, and I'm thinking that kid needs to grow up ASAP.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Karsticles said:
Your kids might not learn the same way I do, but that is what I have found works the best for me. If your kids are playing non-fireball characters, I would start them off on:
1) Learning one important special move.
2) Learning one long-range poke.
3) Learning one anti-air.
Click to expand...

if your kids want to learn honda, the answer to all of the above is simply, BUTT SLAM.

Karsticles said:
I'm moving to Colorado in two weeks, and my sister and her husband are there. I'm totally pumped for 4 player Mario Bros. She also just had a baby, and I'm thinking that kid needs to grow up ASAP.
Click to expand...
you get a good rocky mountain connection over there? i'm always hesitant to play you because the lag can be bad from CA-IL, and i know that frustrates you. maybe the shorter distance leads to a better connection.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
kevo_huevo said:
you get a good rocky mountain connection over there? i'm always hesitant to play you because the lag can be bad from CA-IL, and i know that frustrates you. maybe the shorter distance leads to a better connection.
Click to expand...
I play others in CA and it's not nearly as bad as yours. Even GB has a better connection with me.

I know Comcast services my area, but I don't have any experience with them over there. Comcast is amazing where I am, but all I hear is complaints from people out west. Maybe I'll discover why that is.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Karsticles said:
I play others in CA and it's not nearly as bad as yours. Even GB has a better connection with me.

I know Comcast services my area, but I don't have any experience with them over there. Comcast is amazing where I am, but all I hear is complaints from people out west. Maybe I'll discover why that is.
Click to expand...

i guess i'll just stay free with my shitty ISP. i should research how much more the next internet package is, but it will be hard to convince my gf to pay more because i want a better online connection when playing fighting games lol
 
K

Karsticles

Member
kevo_huevo said:
i guess i'll just stay free with my shitty ISP. i should research how much more the next internet package is, but it will be hard to convince my gf to pay more because i want a better online connection when playing fighting games lol
Click to expand...
Consider switching ISPs! It's always worthwhile to see what's out there.
 
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