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Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition |OT4| Daigo Who?

M

Mœbius

Member
Satyamdas said:
He won't be competitive. Not against the same top tier from AE, at least.

If the changes described for Sim is all that they change, then even with nerfs to Yun/Yang it will still be a 8-2/7-3 matchup in their favor, respectively...
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I'm not even a Sim player and it still depresses me to think that the Sim-Yun/Yang match-up might play out the same in 2012 edition.

Sim players need to make more noise on the Capcom Unity forums or something; know it's not a sure fire way to be heard but it couldn't hurt...
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I doubt they'll change Mak that much. If they don't change her at all, she'll still come out somewhat worse for ware because other characters are getting buffed.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
kitzkozan said:
Because that's how the SFIV system work perhaps? Why should Yun have the strongest super in the game by far, especially having it stronger than both of his ultra not to mention everyone else in the game? The Genei Jin is better as a comeback mechanic than any ultra in the game. Perfect example of no nonsense and contradictory game design and Ono going demented to make sure the character would be cheap as fuck. You can be sure his genei Jin is going to be nerfed, probably moreso than anything else in his repertoire.
Click to expand...

His Super is stronger than both his ultras? Considering that they're different, how the hell are you tiering this shit? Hype?
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
kitzkozan said:
Because that's how the SFIV system work perhaps? Why should Yun have the strongest super in the game by far, especially having it stronger than both of his ultra not to mention everyone else in the game? The Genei Jin is better as a comeback mechanic than any ultra in the game. Perfect example of no nonsense and contradictory game design and Ono going demented to make sure the character would be cheap as fuck. You can be sure his genei Jin is going to be nerfed, probably moreso than anything else in his repertoire.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant, fact of that matter is if you want to look at gj as a comeback mechanic, then all supers are comeback mechanics. And the amount of damage is so supranational that I don't see why you're complaining.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Rice-Eater said:
Those buffs pretty much do nothing to really help him overall. Really, counter hit EX fireball, how often does that happen? Counterhit close st. HK, I can see people using attempting it. But you're still fishing for a counter hit instead of having a guaranteed combo. The tatsu change I have no idea how that helps or hurts him. Adding 10 damage back to the forward fierce helps a bit, but I think it should go back to 120 considering all the nerfs he has received else where. U2 may be improved and be able to work off a CH ex hado, but in the end no Ryu players will be using it unless they're just trolling on Xbox Live.
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Completely agree, I hope those wont be his final changes.
 
K

kitzkozan

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
Irrelevant, fact of that matter is if you want to look at gj as a comeback mechanic, then all supers are comeback mechanics. And the amount of damage is so supranational that I don't see why you're complaining.
Click to expand...

Do you see any character outside Yun who's gonna use their super in just about every match? No, and that's because everyone else is better off using ex moves or FADC outside of some situation. Yun can get a ton of damage out of his super, especially once it's combined to his ultra. Do remember that they nerfed Sim's super damage (from 350 to 300) because they felt it was too much damage when combined to his U1 damage (which you see quite often) .
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
I honestly can't think of any "OMG MUST HAVE" changes for Hawk. I guess maybe...

- EX Dive always lands close on block (that sweet spot is nearly impossible to land consistently)
- Adjusted hitbox on cr. fierce. Move the hitbox up and out a bit so he can actually swat people out of the air. I'm not asking for a Sakura cr. fierce here, but it could use improving.
- When Hawk lands a 360 while he is in the corner, don't adjust his positioning. He's the only grappler who moves away from the corner when he lands one, and it's annoying to have it happen and try to get mixups afterwards.
- A few more invincibility frames on his light SRK startup, and full startup invincibility on EX so he can't get crossed up or thrown out of it.
- Maybe a few frames shaved off recovery of Condor Spire?
- Faster focus attack.
- They already fixed my main greivance with U2 (better hitbox and startup, AND invincibility), but I'd like it to hit a little harder too.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
kitzkozan said:
Do you see any character outside Yun who's gonna use their super in just about every match? No, and that's because everyone else is better off using ex moves or FADC outside of some situation. Yun can get a ton of damage out of his super, especially once it's combined to his ultra. Do remember that they nerfed Sim's super damage (from 350 to 300) because they felt it was too much damage when combined to his U1 damage (which you see quite often) .
Click to expand...
So what? it's an opportunity cost, you're forgoing ex to pull off super and even then it's not like it's guaranteed damage. The only problem I have with Geneijin is that the twins build too much meter and too fast.
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
pirateben said:
I'm not even a Sim player and it still depresses me to think that the Sim-Yun/Yang match-up might play out the same in 2012 edition.

Sim players need to make more noise on the Capcom Unity forums or something; know it's not a sure fire way to be heard but it couldn't hurt...
Click to expand...
Nah, I don't think more noise on the Unity forums matters. We already have Arturo lobbying hard directly in the ears of S-Kill and Ono, and we have evidence like the 2 best Sim players in the world getting shut down ridiculously bad (Champ vs. Daigo, and Mochi vs. Sako), so there is no chance that Capcom doesn't know about how bad he gets raped by the twins.

Giving him 30 damage back on his Super is a nice middle ground, but I'd have gladly left his Super at 300 if it meant we could get back his normal damage and the damage from EX Flame. Those 2 are clearly the reason he struggles so much harder in AE than in Super. And even in Super having that damage didn't give Sim any 7-3s and maybe 2 or 3 6-4 match ups in his favor, so removing it really hurt. I think we're pretty much done for in SF4. :*(
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
So what? it's an opportunity cost, you're forgoing ex to pull off super and even then it's not like it's guaranteed damage. The only problem I have with Geneijin is that the twins build too much meter and too fast.
Click to expand...

That's a problem I wouldn't attribute to the Super itself.

I'm not going to say Guile's Super is great because he builds meter fast.

Anyway, the fact that we're going into what should be appropriate for Super damage is hilarious backtrack, considering this was spawned from the idea that Juri should have an even more retarded version of Geneijin because that's just how SFIV works.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
That's a problem I wouldn't attribute to the Super itself.

I'm not going to say Guile's Super is great because he builds meter fast.

Anyway, the fact that we're going into what should be appropriate for Super damage is hilarious backtrack, considering this was spawned from the idea that Juri should have an even more retarded version of Geneijin because that's just how SFIV works.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'm getting at. His meter building ability just makes gj potent. And I didn't say building meter fast makes every super better, obviously guiles is more situational than Yuns since he has a plethora of way to land it, some leading to more damage than others.
 
T

the_log_ride

Member
Sim's tough matchups are always gonna be ass.

Dammit, was it really too much to get his damage output from SUPER back?

"Here you go, sim player. 20 extra damage on the first hit of EX Blast, cuz we know it's ass and you'll trade most of the time when you throw it out..."

I'm just glad this "update" is free. Still curious how the rest of these tweaks play out. If feedback at the location tests plays a role, I'll be surprised.
 
K

kitzkozan

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
So what? it's an opportunity cost, you're forgoing ex to pull off super and even then it's not like it's guaranteed damage.
Click to expand...

Will you be surprised if you see that they nerfed his genei jin? Never forget who's in charge of the game. The same people that felt Dudley's rose throw being useful was op, especially if it would do 1 freaking point of damage and might infuriate someone by finishing them off with it. :p
 
R

Rocwell

Member
the_log_ride said:
Sim's tough matchups are always gonna be ass.

Dammit, was it really too much to get his damage output from SUPER back?

"Here you go, sim player. 20 extra damage on the first hit of EX Blast, cuz we know it's ass and you'll trade most of the time when you throw it out..."

I'm just glad this "update" is free. Still curious how the rest of these tweaks play out. If feedback at the location tests plays a role, I'll be surprised.
Click to expand...
When Sim and Fei are both garbage I can give you tips on how to play Makoto ;D
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
Rocwell said:
When Sim and Fei are both garbage I can give you tips on how to play Makoto ;D
Click to expand...
1cNiS.jpg
 
T

the_log_ride

Member
Rocwell said:
When Sim and Fei are both garbage I can give you tips on how to play Makoto ;D
Click to expand...

HAHA! But, where will we go once Mak gets stuffed with dat nerf stick?

"Push Buttons Win Matches" rings true for me when I play bipson
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
This isn't a definitive change list, right? I ask as everything seems to be buffs except for a few notable nerfs. There's surely more behind the scenes?
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
DR2K said:
Us Viper scrubs can finally land her combos. I really wish they would make her Ultra 2 useful.
Click to expand...

This one guy CONSISTENTLY landed the seismo hammer > super jump > ultra 2 on me (did it at least 3 times). He must have just been in practice mode because he never beat me =p
 
S

SamVimes

Member
kitzkozan said:
Because that's how the SFIV system work perhaps? Why should Yun have the strongest super in the game by far, especially having it stronger than both of his ultra not to mention everyone else in the game? The Genei Jin is better as a comeback mechanic than any ultra in the game. Perfect example of no nonsense and contradictory game design and Ono going demented to make sure the character would be cheap as fuck. You can be sure his genei Jin is going to be nerfed, probably moreso than anything else in his repertoire.
Click to expand...
That would be Gen's, crane jmk, cr lk, mantis super, ultra does 583, and you can also combo it from every poke into hands.

Why would the buff Ken's ex shoryu is beyond me, he's already perfectly balanced.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
YOOOOOOO!!!!

Blanka and Rog getting buffs?
Dayum, that ballbuff sounds very very interesting, so blanka gets mad mixups? crossover hop c.lk c.lk s.lp h ball into knowdown rinse and repeat?

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I might gonna have to buy a stick...god damnit.

Please don't nerf seth :(
 
Nose Master

Nose Master

Member
The blanka buffs are weird. He gets knockdown on rolling attack during combos now, but doesn't have it on vertical balls? Most of the cast can punish that shit on hit.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Fuuu, it's itching in my body, I kinda want to learn to play Blanka, but I'm sure these changes are highly tentative so I'll keep my snake in my pants until it's time. Who knows maybe they'll buff Seth ( a man can dream ).

Seth :

Health and stun increased to 1000 / 1000

Fin.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
If Seth were to get a buff like that, he'd have to give up something for it. Like taking away command throw and probably decreasing his DP from 8 frames of invincibility to 4-6 instead. Otherwise he would be too strong for a normal health character.

Axis said:
that wouldn't be broken or anything
Click to expand...

I disagree, there is a good reason why he is low health. And the only thing they could come up with to balance him is his low health because they wanted him to have such a wide array of tools. The likes not seen from any normal health character.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Axis said:
that wouldn't be broken or anything
Click to expand...

I agree :3

zrQCs.jpg


( don't google images chibi seth, even with safe search on )


Rice-Eater said:
If Seth were to get a buff like that, he'd have to give up something for it. Like taking away command throw and probably decreasing his DP from 8 frames of invincibility to 4-6 instead. Otherwise he would be too strong for a normal health character.
Click to expand...

Lol I was only joking, of course he would be broken with that much health combined with his current tools.
 
V

vg260

Member
sleepykyo said:
I hope so. Honda getting AA jab headbutt back and Guile getting some of the AE nerfs rolled back make me sad. Seems like the charge characters and keep away characters are making a comeback.

Except Ryu. Daigo and Valle were just too good and that crouching mk is never coming back.
Click to expand...

Guile had as many nerfs as any 2-3 characters combined. The changes so far are nothing. They didn't even address the most questionable nerf of all in AE, his Ultra 2 neutering. Even people that hated Guile thought it was too extreme.
 
Axis

Axis

Member
Rice-Eater said:
I disagree, there is a good reason why he is low health. And the only thing they could come up with to balance him is his low health because they wanted him to have such a wide array of tools. The likes not seen from any normal health character.
Click to expand...


lol i think you missed the sarcasm in my response ;P
 
Axis

Axis

Member
Rice-Eater said:
Un-obvious sarcasm was very un-obvious. That said, I'm going to sleep. I will no longer be a victim of un-obvious sarcasm.
Click to expand...



you will be victimised


*cracks knuckles*
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Nice, some completely useless buffs on Ryu and a damage nerf on something you actually use sometimes. Awesome show, great job.
 
P

PhatSaqs

Banned
Really eager to see what they do to Rose and the dive kick twins.
OmnipotentO said:
WTF Why the Viper nerfs?! FFUUUCKKKK!
Click to expand...
It's damage nerfs. She still will play the same. Just wont do as much damage combo wise. Viper players should be rejoicing that she didnt get smacked much harder.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
kitzkozan said:
Will you be surprised if you see that they nerfed his genei jin? Never forget who's in charge of the game. The same people that felt Dudley's rose throw being useful was op, especially if it would do 1 freaking point of damage and might infuriate someone by finishing them off with it. :p
Click to expand...

If the rose did chip damage it'd be a guaranteed win in chip situations. Either block the rose or try to backdash/jump/dp and get EX MGB'd.
 
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