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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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D

Dartastic

Member
Wow. That last round was absolutely horrible on my part. I'm so goddamn predictable. ...and the TWO missed ultra opportunities! :lol
 
M

Mœbius

Member
I had the rarest thing happen to me last night while playing in Ranked...

Because of my location I play against Japanese players online and have never received hate mail or anything like that. In fact I only ever receive compliments and 'thank you's'.

So last night I'm up against a 'gief, he's not that great and in the first round I have a life lead on him when he starts taunting. I don't react to that and eventually finish him off. Second round, I wait for him to taunt again (which he does) so I can counter and take advantage; I go to town on him and I'm a couple of hits away from a perfect when he rage quits on me!

First time i've ever seen a Japanese player do that - it was delicious.
 
B

Brobzoid

how do I slip unnoticed out of a gloryhole booth?
Cross Counter is great fun. Is it like a weekly thing or is it just updated whenever...?
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
pirateben said:
I had the rarest thing happen to me last night while playing in Ranked...

Because of my location I play against Japanese players online and have never received hate mail or anything like that. In fact I only ever receive compliments and 'thank you's'.

So last night I'm up against a 'gief, he's not that great and in the first round I have a life lead on him when he starts taunting. I don't react to that and eventually finish him off. Second round, I wait for him to taunt again (which he does) so I can counter and take advantage; I go to town on him and I'm a couple of hits away from a perfect when he rage quits on me!

First time i've ever seen a Japanese player do that - it was delicious.
Click to expand...
Yeah Japanese scrubs are just like American scrubs. They rage-quit and taunt all the damn time (in my experience). It's even worse when you play in arcade and they keep taunting.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
Dartastic said:
Wow. That last round was absolutely horrible on my part. I'm so goddamn predictable. ...and the TWO missed ultra opportunities! :lol
Click to expand...

Yeah that's your biggest problem from what I can tell. You're a little too predictable. Though I probably know Makoto's setups better than a lot of folks.

Also, your pressure game doesn't have a lot of teeth to it. It's always st.mp x2 into nothing or into a jumpin. You make it a little too easy for people to escape and reset the situation. I usually do st.mp x2 into hayate cancel because canceling st.mp moves you forward. It makes the st.mp go from +2 to -1 on block, though. But that's the tradeoff for being able to maintain pressure. A IA tsuguri will nail mashed throws and such if people do that after the hc.

Also, you still press too many buttons on wakeup. I had no idea that you could fukiage Sakura's ground tatsu until tonight, though :lol

But yeah, you probably should've mixed in some backdashes on wakeup. Most of the time when I got a knockdown I was just walking up to you and doing stuff that would've been avoided if you had backdashed. I would've started jumping forward to nail your backdash recovery or option selected an ex srk after a safe jump if you had gotten too predictable with it though.

DR2K said:
It has armor? That's not really a good excuse.
Click to expand...

No. Because kara ex kara is really, really good.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
DR2K said:
So is cr lk xx(is there a hayate cancel in the middle?) ultra 1. Nerf Makoto.
Click to expand...
Isn't that ONLY meaty? You have to assume 1) opponent won't reversal/backdash 2) opponent won't block 3) you time your meaty right 4) you time your ultra right (i think one frame link).
 
J

jlai

Member
SmokeMaxX said:
Isn't that ONLY meaty? You have to assume 1) opponent won't reversal/backdash 2) opponent won't block 3) you time your meaty right 4) you time your ultra right (i think one frame link).
Click to expand...

Yes meaty. It'll catch characters with slow or short backdashes too like an option select. Its a very tough link, especially since you can't plink/double tap
 
D

Dartastic

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Yeah that's your biggest problem from what I can tell. You're a little too predictable. Though I probably know Makoto's setups better than a lot of folks.

Also, your pressure game doesn't have a lot of teeth to it. It's always st.mp x2 into nothing or into a jumpin. You make it a little too easy for people to escape and reset the situation. I usually do st.mp x2 into hayate cancel because canceling st.mp moves you forward. It makes the st.mp go from +2 to -1 on block, though. But that's the tradeoff for being able to maintain pressure. A IA tsuguri will nail mashed throws and such if people do that after the hc.

Also, you still press too many buttons on wakeup. I had no idea that you could fukiage Sakura's ground tatsu until tonight, though :lol

But yeah, you probably should've mixed in some backdashes on wakeup. Most of the time when I got a knockdown I was just walking up to you and doing stuff that would've been avoided if you had backdashed. I would've started jumping forward to nail your backdash recovery or option selected an ex srk after a safe jump if you had gotten too predictable with it though.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I think I've gotten scared of bullshit online tactics where people just mash uppercut. I hate that. Which hayate cancels do you use? Also, I suck at doing IA tsuguri's. Any tips on getting those out? I'll keep the rest in mind for sure. I think I just play pretty scrubby sometimes, and it really hurts me. I don't get this kinda feedback often, and it's what I need. Thanks!
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
SmokeMaxX said:
Isn't that ONLY meaty? You have to assume 1) opponent won't reversal/backdash 2) opponent won't block 3) you time your meaty right 4) you time your ultra right (i think one frame link).
Click to expand...

Sounds situational, don't it?
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
haunts said:
anyone here going to SCR?
Click to expand...

NO DOOD PEOPLE WOULD RATHER COME TO ABSOLUTE BATTLE, THE BETTER TOURNAMENT (also announced before scr and mlg dallas)

SmokeMaxX said:
Isn't that ONLY meaty? You have to assume 1) opponent won't reversal/backdash 2) opponent won't block 3) you time your meaty right 4) you time your ultra right (i think one frame link).
Click to expand...

It's usually set up after an empty jump so people are blocking high, which is how you catch em with the cr. short -> ultra
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
FindMyFarms said:
It's usually set up after an empty jump so people are blocking high, which is how you catch em with the cr. short -> ultra
Click to expand...

The jump is more about timing the meaty than it is getting them to block high, 'cause it's nearly impossible to get it to hit meaty reliably otherwise.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
haunts said:
right now I just want to focus on what we have and spruce up some of the pages with photos and bios and stuff. hopefully by early next year i can let it loose to the public.
Click to expand...

Can I be on the list? Instead of a profile pic you can just link the footage of me scratching my balls on camera :lol

Lost Fragment said:
The jump is more about timing the meaty than it is getting them to block high, 'cause it's nearly impossible to get it to hit meaty reliably otherwise.
Click to expand...

I'd say it's a 2 birds with 1 stone thing then, because unless you know they're going to be jumping or wake up mashing or whatever, it would be extremely risky to just assume a low is going to hit, whereas empty jump lows have been a mixup for the longest time. Timing + getting them to block high
 
C

carlos

Member
Greetings folks, I'm looking for some advice on my work in progress chun li: what to do on wakeup against jumping in opponents? (aside from spinning bird kick ex)
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
FindMyFarms said:
I'd say it's a 2 birds with 1 stone thing then, because unless you know they're going to be jumping or wake up mashing or whatever, it would be extremely risky to just assume a low is going to hit, whereas empty jump lows have been a mixup for the longest time. Timing + getting them to block high
Click to expand...

Well, only if they're not paying attention. Because to set the meaty up you have to whiff a normal in the air as soon as you leave the ground, so it's not an empty jump per se. To people that know about the setup, it telegraphs what you might have in mind.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Well, only if they're not paying attention. Because to set the meaty up you have to whiff a normal in the air as soon as you leave the ground, so it's not an empty jump per se. To people that know about the setup, it telegraphs what you might have in mind.
Click to expand...

Ahh ok, I didn't know you had to whiff a normal in the air. Does it change the meaty timing if you don't whiff?

DR2K said:
Sagat was basically a damage nerf.
Click to expand...

Well they also took out safe tiger knees, which were his #1 defensive tool when peeps got in close, and removed his far cancellable stand short, which is how he'd set up safe tiger knees and also push people out with fireballs. Both were integral to his defensive/zoning game.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
FindMyFarms said:
Ahh ok, I didn't know you had to whiff a normal in the air. Does it change the meaty timing if you don't whiff?
Click to expand...

Yeah.

After she hits an ex oroshi, if she immediately forward dashes and immediately jumps (neutral or forward), immediately whiffs a normal in the air after she jumps, and immediately hits cr.lk as she hits the ground, it'll hit meaty every time if they're not blocking low. Otherwise you have to improvise on the timing and that's next to impossible to do reliably with cr.lk.

btw, all that sounds complicated but it's not really that hard to pull off.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Yeah.

After she hits an ex oroshi, if she immediately forward dashes and immediately jumps (neutral or forward), immediately whiffs a normal in the air after she jumps, and immediately hits cr.lk as she hits the ground, it'll hit meaty every time if they're not blocking low. Otherwise you have to improvise on the timing and that's next to impossible to do reliably.

btw, all that sounds complicated but it's not really that hard to pull off.
Click to expand...

Can you slightly delay the jump and then empty jump without the air normal whiff to get the same results? Because if so that would give you a high/low mixup.

How many frames of recovery does the air normal whiff add compared to empty jump? And what normal is it?
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
FindMyFarms said:
Can you slightly delay the jump and then empty jump without the air normal whiff to get the same results? Because if so that would give you a high/low mixup.
Click to expand...

You know, for some reason I never tried that, but I was reasonably consistent with it after a few minutes in training mode just now. Gonna have to mess around with it in real matches.

FindMyFarms said:
How many frames of recovery does the air normal whiff add compared to empty jump? And what normal is it?
Click to expand...

Don't know the frames, but I do know that any normal will work. So I guess it's however many recovery frames whiffing a normal in the air adds in general.
 
R

Rocwell

Member
FindMyFarms said:
Can you slightly delay the jump and then empty jump without the air normal whiff to get the same results? Because if so that would give you a high/low mixup.

How many frames of recovery does the air normal whiff add compared to empty jump? And what normal is it?
Click to expand...
I don't see why not, however if you want to do a safe jump setup makoto has other ways to do it off a knockdown, she even has a setup that lets her safejump 3 frame DPs.

Not sure exactly how many frames of recovery the whiffed normal adds, no more than 3 frames I imagine, and it doesn't matter which normal you throw out. I don't think when you throw out the whiffed normal has any effect either, I've done it on the way up and on the way down and not noticed a difference.

Ehh beaten but posting anyway.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Guy is really fun to play. I've been messing around with him a lot, might replace Fei with him as a secondary until AE comes out. Maybe permanently, and swap to Yang/Guy unless someone more badass like Q gets announced.

HK, cMP xx EX Hozanto FADC EX Hozanto does so much stun.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
FindMyFarms said:
Well they also took out safe tiger knees, which were his #1 defensive tool when peeps got in close, and removed his far cancellable stand short, which is how he'd set up safe tiger knees and also push people out with fireballs. Both were integral to his defensive/zoning game.
Click to expand...

Besides damage Honda is quote a push over. Basically he'd be what Sagat is now if his damage is nerfed enough. He'll go from being a tank to being a wall.
 
H

haunts

Bacon of Hope
FindMyFarms said:
Well they also took out safe tiger knees, which were his #1 defensive tool when peeps got in close, and removed his far cancellable stand short, which is how he'd set up safe tiger knees and also push people out with fireballs. Both were integral to his defensive/zoning game.
Click to expand...

light knee is still pretty safe afaik. thing with sagat now is he is still really good you just have to pretty much relearn the character entirely. most of his block strings are different and his max damage combos are like completely different now. took me forever to get sagat back in shape after all the changes. you also have to use c.lk, c.mp, c.lp mostly now instead of the standard c.lk x2, x.lp into upper.

thing is, you have characters like rog, guile, chun and ryu which are brain dead easy, and you go to a character like sagat where all his bread and butters and stuff take a while to get down and its really discouraging for a new player to get into. why would you ever play sagat when you can just play ryu or chun?

in vanilla he had awesome dmg output so even if you didnt really do many combos or whatever you could still get away with a lot. unless they give that back to him, i dont ever see him being a widely used character again even if they give him the s.lk cancel back.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
God's Beard said:
Guy is really fun to play. I've been messing around with him a lot, might replace Fei with him as a secondary until AE comes out. Maybe permanently, and swap to Yang/Guy unless someone more badass like Q gets announced.

HK, cMP xx EX Hozanto FADC EX Hozanto does so much stun.
Click to expand...

you're sick of dudley?
 
LowParry

LowParry

Member
God's Beard said:
Guy is really fun to play. I've been messing around with him a lot, might replace Fei with him as a secondary until AE comes out. Maybe permanently, and swap to Yang/Guy unless someone more badass like Q gets announced.

HK, cMP xx EX Hozanto FADC EX Hozanto does so much stun.
Click to expand...


Guy is such a badass character. A bit hard to get into but once things click, it's magic. Vega I've dropped for Bison. Just flows better.
 
K

kitzkozan

Member
haunts said:
light knee is still pretty safe afaik. thing with sagat now is he is still really good you just have to pretty much relearn the character entirely. most of his block strings are different and his max damage combos are like completely different now. took me forever to get sagat back in shape after all the changes. you also have to use c.lk, c.mp, c.lp mostly now instead of the standard c.lk x2, x.lp into upper.

thing is, you have characters like rog, guile, chun and ryu which are brain dead easy, and you go to a character like sagat where all his bread and butters and stuff take a while to get down and its really discouraging for a new player to get into. why would you ever play sagat when you can just play ryu or chun?

in vanilla he had awesome dmg output so even if you didnt really do many combos or whatever you could still get away with a lot. unless they give that back to him, i dont ever see him being a widely used character again even if they give him the s.lk cancel back.
Click to expand...

I think he will regain most of his damage output,but at a cost.From that AE loketest,most people reported that he had regained his offense in exchange for a weakened zoning game (high tiger shot with more recovery).
 
K

kitzkozan

Member
CcrooK said:
Guy is such a badass character. A bit hard to get into but once things click, it's magic. Vega I've dropped for Bison. Just flows better.
Click to expand...

Especially love that bushin flip for 200 damage. :lol It's the proper time to invest in Guy,since he should be stronger in AE. :D Only thing I dislike about him is a Guy vs Guy mirror... :s
 
H

haunts

Bacon of Hope
kitzkozan said:
I think he will regain most of his damage output,but at a cost.From that AE loketest,most people reported that he had regained his offense in exchange for a weakened zoning game (high tiger shot with more recovery).
Click to expand...


LI Joe reported they didnt give him his S. LK cancel back. Would be funny if they increased recovery on his high tiger and left everything else the same. :lol
 
Y

Ysiadmihi

Banned
CcrooK said:
Speaking of Guy, which is the better Ultra for him? I usually stick with U1 for the corner pressure combos.
Click to expand...

I like U1 better because it's easier to punish with and some corner combos into it can get you *some* damage.

Personally I can't get U2 to come out when I need it to save my life. I always get an EX hozanto no matter how much I practice in training mode.
 
J

jlai

Member
Lost Fragment said:
You know, for some reason I never tried that, but I was reasonably consistent with it after a few minutes in training mode just now. Gonna have to mess around with it in real matches.



Don't know the frames, but I do know that any normal will work. So I guess it's however many recovery frames whiffing a normal in the air adds in general.
Click to expand...

Its just as difficult to delay then empty jump as it is to just time it out otherwise. Dash forward whiff normal neutral jump is nice because it gives you the exact timing. The only hard part is getting the ultra to connect after the lk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VRgJdzrQ3U :D

I got pretty lucky on that one. Hit with a normal but just so happened the dash jump still worked. I try it way too many times playing online.. with like a 10% success rate
 
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