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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT3| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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S

Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
The shortcut/input system really is garbage though.

I couldn't drive myself to only play SF4/SSF4 to perfect my execution to 100% when I never had to from the SFII days - from every major Capcom fighter, whether it was main SF's, Alpha's, EX's, Versus series - I NEVER had execution errors until SF4, because of those BS shortcuts, and I have personal experience plus people out there with recorded proof with the oddest inputs registering as moves JUST because two shortcut inputs were hit within a certain time period. I shouldn't have to end on an up-forward input as an extra insurance to guarantee that my Ultra comes out when I do the motion too fast on reaction.

The only shortcut I agree with is the SPD, for the rest they were unnecessary, and messed with the muscle memory I've had burned in for over like 17-18 years or so.

marathonfool said:
Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition release today in JAPAN!

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/saikyo_blog/2010/12/16_2855.html

Where's the hype and videos?!

Also, if any Tekken players out there...check out the Tekken thread.
Click to expand...

I'm going to bed now to hope to be greeted with lots of videos on Youtube, don't disappoint me Japan!
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
I've overcompensated for the shortcuts in SF4 to the degree that I end up jumping during my 2xqcf because I'm trying to hard to make sure I don't get the SRK and rotate too far. But at least I almost never get an accidental SRK anymore, except when I'm cracking.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Karate Champ to SF2 - WOOOOW I can combine moves!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't even know you could do combos(as in links/cancels) until the Alpha series. The only combos I knew about was multi hit specials.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
Satyamdas said:
Why in the world would they put that back in?! Ugh.
Click to expand...

Now that more things trade with srk, this will be even better than in vanilla. . . I really hope Cammy has some stupid shit in AE.
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
DR2K said:
Now that more things trade with srk, this will be even better than in vanilla. . . I really hope Cammy has some stupid shit in AE.
Click to expand...
Well Cammy is still in the game isn't she? Then there you go.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Skilotonn said:
The only shortcut I agree with is the SPD, for the rest they were unnecessary, and messed with the muscle memory I've had burned in for over like 17-18 years or so.
Click to expand...

This is the WORST shortcut. The whole point of Zangief having such a powerful move was that it was the hardest move in the game to do, and if you fucked up the execution, you got punished.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
Satyamdas said:
With reversal windows wide enough to drive a Mack truck through, an input system that is the most lenient in any SF game ever, DP's that can trade into Super and Ultra, etc., I have a hard time not seeing the game mechanics being scrub friendly. Does that mean scrubs will stand toe-to-toe with Justin/Mago/Daigo, etc? Of course not, and I doubt Steve would argue that it does.

But I don't find that sentiment too different from:


Since you are clearly saying that Capcom is balancing the game for scrubs, why is it so hard to believe that the mechanics are also geared toward scrubs? Especially given the input system and reversal window?
Click to expand...

I think you're straying off the topic a little bit. My main problem was steve h's condescending attitude towards new players and "scrubby" aspects of sf4 that are misinformed. I'm not debating that capcom made it easier to perform reversals to help accommodate new players, but a big part of that design choice was making it so that you could always perform what you wanted to, when you wanted to. Say what you want about the buffer window, but with it in place, it's never an issue of whether you got the reversal you wanted, but whether you made the right decision, which is how it should be. But yes, for the record, I NEVER debated capcom's intent with the mechanics.

That's ONE thing he mentioned, he also goes on to say that the game has no footsies, rewards bad play, etc. etc. All of which aren't true, but he spouts it off as if it is, all the while having a generally condescending knowitall OG attitude about it. It's the attitude that pisses me off more than anything.

edit - regards to the shortcuts, all the dp shortcuts have been there before to make sure you could DP from crouch, but it's made more apparent with the buffer window. I will agree that 3s's shortcuts for supers make more sense than 4's shortcuts for supers though, but outside of that i think they're fine as is. (didn't knwo about that dhalsim one though)
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
Nah, the worst shortcut is Sim's Yoga Blast. It's supposed to be a half circle back + kick, but the game will accept forward, downback + kick. 5 inputs reduced to 2. Very easy to get an accidental one after blocking a crossup. Now I know my execution is ass, so I'm willing to blame myself when I get Blasts accidentally. But when I see it happen to Champ, Iyo, Mochi, etc., I can't help but think the leniency is just a bit too much.
 
U

USD

Member
More from Acqua's twitter:

-B+MP hitbox might be nerfed
-Never misses LP → st.MK link (MK being a frame faster in AE)
-Her setups after Neckbreaker feel off. Some things that used to cross-up don't anymore
-Kunai recovery time is the same
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
FindMyFarms said:
I think you're straying off the topic a little bit. My main problem was steve h's condescending attitude towards new players and "scrubby" aspects of sf4 that are misinformed. I'm not debating that capcom made it easier to perform reversals to help accommodate new players, but a big part of that design choice was making it so that you could always perform what you wanted to, when you wanted to. Say what you want about the buffer window, but with it in place, it's never an issue of whether you got the reversal you wanted, but whether you made the right decision, which is how it should be. But yes, for the record, I NEVER debated capcom's intent with the mechanics.

That's ONE thing he mentioned, he also goes on to say that the game has no footsies, rewards bad play, etc. etc. All of which aren't true, but he spouts it off as if it is, all the while having a generally condescending knowitall OG attitude about it. It's the attitude that pisses me off more than anything.
Click to expand...
I guess I just took his comments in a joking manner rather than a serious one. He was laughing and just talking shit, which is what every player does about various things, OG or not. I guess I just give the community enough respect that I think they took his comments in stride, rather than thinking it will affect everyone's judgment and poison people's view of the game. I mean in the SRK post about the video, his buddy HAV was in there in the comments section basically saying Steve gets shit on nonstop by his local scene for his views and that everyone just laughs him off when he pops shit about SSF4. I can't tell you not to be offended by his attitude, of course, I just think you took it a bit more seriously than was warranted.

But enough about that, bring on the AE vids someone!!
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
God's Beard said:
Can you do kara tiger shots consistently without getting uppercuts?



It's not his belief, Ono said so when he was making Vanilla. He said he'd hope that new players drawn in would be able to graduate to a tournament-level game like 3rd Strike. The whole point of the game is to revitalize Capcom's fighting game dominance of the 90s. Then, Marvel hits for another fan boost, then they start bringing back games that are a little more intense, like SFIII:3sOE.
Click to expand...

1 - If Sagat was the character I played, no I would not get uppercuts. Would I get it 100% of the time? No, but no one gets anything %100 of the time. Wong missed st. short -> st. fierce sometimes with rufus, and that doesn't even have anything to do with sf4 stuff.

2 - Funny enough, they made a much better tournament game with SF4 than they did with 3s :p

Satyamdas said:
I guess I just took his comments in a joking manner rather than a serious one. He was laughing and just talking shit, which is what every player does about various things, OG or not. I guess I just give the community enough respect that I think they took his comments in stride, rather than thinking it will affect everyone's judgment and poison people's view of the game. I mean in the SRK post about the video, his buddy HAV was in there in the comments section basically saying Steve gets shit on nonstop by his local scene for his views and that everyone just laughs him off when he pops shit about SSF4. I can't tell you not to be offended by his attitude, of course, I just think you are taking it a bit more seriously than was warranted.
Click to expand...

Well you have to keep in mind that when I say that stuff pisses me off, it's in the context of this hobby and the forum. I'm not like, walking around my apartment all day going "OH THAT STEVE H, DARN YOU." But if he's gonna get brought up in forum where the point is discussion of a hobby I enjoy, then of course i'll bring up my distaste.
 
T

the_log_ride

Member
Satyamdas said:
I guess I just took his comments in a joking manner rather than a serious one. He was laughing and just talking shit, which is what every player does about various things, OG or not. I guess I just give the community enough respect that I think they took his comments in stride, rather than thinking it will affect everyone's judgment and poison people's view of the game. I mean in the SRK post about the video, his buddy HAV was in there in the comments section basically saying Steve gets shit on nonstop by his local scene for his views and that everyone just laughs him off when he pops shit about SSF4. I can't tell you not to be offended by his attitude, of course, I just think you took it a bit more seriously than was warranted.

But enough about that, bring on the AE vids someone!!
Click to expand...

There better be a buttload of 'em tomorrow. Gn, all.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
USD said:
More from Acqua's twitter:

-B+MP hitbox might be nerfed
-Never misses LP → st.MK link (MK being a frame faster in AE)
-Her setups after Neckbreaker feel off. Some things that used to cross-up don't anymore
-Kunai recovery time is the same
Click to expand...

Keep nerfing Ibuki Crapcom.

FFS

Ibuki will be even shittier now.
 
U

USD

Member
AqAKF.jpg
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
FindMyFarms said:
Well you have to keep in mind that when I say that stuff pisses me off, it's in the context of this hobby and the forum. I'm not like, walking around my apartment all day going "OH THAT STEVE H, DARN YOU." But if he's gonna get brought up in forum where the point is discussion of a hobby I enjoy, then of course i'll bring up my distaste.
Click to expand...
Understood. I just thought that saying his mentality is terrible and cancerous for the community was a bit much for a mere difference of opinion.
 
T

ThatCrazyGuy

Member
What I don't get is how people say there is no footsies in SSF4. Like what is the standard definition of that? Seems like everybody has a different take on it.

I don't understand how SF4 has less "footsies" than CVS2, 3rd strike, or like alpha 3.

Like, I wish somebody would give like a moment to moment gameplay breakdown on what is footsies in what game.

I personally see lots of footsies in SSF4 when I watch tourny vids. Like what is making it non footsie?

Daigo vs Valle at SCR was hot. FChamp vs Daigo at SCR was nice. What where they doing that wasn't footsies?

And what makes CVS2 footsies so much better? I don't see it. I see the same stuff, people walking in and out of range, poking, throwing out high priority moves, fishing for CC combo opportunities.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Spiderjericho said:
And Floe made a pretty good point on wakeupsrk, with the community, especially the older players, they liked the games with unfair b.s. like MVC2, TS, etc. He even goes onto say he prefers Vanilla over Super, simply because of the damage and b.s.
Click to expand...

that's not what he said. stay free jericho.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
ThatCrazyGuy said:
What I don't get is how people say there is no footsies in SSF4. Like what is the standard definition of that? Seems like everybody has a different take on it.

I don't understand how SF4 has less "footsies" than CVS2, 3rd strike, or like alpha 3.

Like, I wish somebody would give like a moment to moment gameplay breakdown on what is footsies in what game.

I personally see lots of footsies in SSF4 when I watch tourny vids. Like what is making it non footsie?

Daigo vs Valle at SCR was hot. FChamp vs Daigo at SCR was nice. What where they doing that wasn't footsies?

And what makes CVS2 footsies so much better? I don't see it. I see the same stuff, people walking in and out of range, poking, throwing out high priority moves, fishing for CC combo opportunities.
Click to expand...


“Footsies” is oldschool slang for the mid-range ground-based aspect of fighting game strategy. The ultimate goal is to control the flow of the match, bait the opponent into committing errors, and punish everything.
- Maj

Dhalsim isn't a footsie character. His entire game is full screen zoning.

And what Steve H meant was that a lot of the newer street fighter 4 original characters are designed around mixups and shenanigans, rather than having decent pokes to play with....so it's like they're playing an entirely different game vs the average ryu/chun li player. And he's right.
 
N

N4Us

Member
Thanks.

So far I'm reading it bootleg Google Translate style before a better translation pops up. He's mentioning Zangief quite a bit..
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
USD said:
Basically saying that fireball characters got nerfed, while characters without fireballs got buffed. Also, he's thinking about maybe using Yun.
Click to expand...

hhhmm i kind like that .
I notice now when i play fighting games i don't like to play chars that use fireballs.
 
U

USD

Member
Probably should just focus on reading the whole thing, but some points:

-He thinks Yun will be really good, though Zangief will be a tough match-up for him. Hasn't played much Yang, but thinks that Genei Jin will be a big difference between the two characters.

-Even though Fei lost the invincibility on HK Chicken Wing, but with the better normals and all the tools he still has available (Rekka, Tenshin, etc.), and Chun, Honda, and Balrog getting nerfs, he says that Fei is probably the strongest of the old characters.

-Yun, Yang, and Fei will be top class in AE.

-Makoto is stronger than he thought she would be.

-I'll probably keep Guile around as a secondary.

-He really seems to fear the Zangief match-up with Yun.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
kitzkozan said:
Watch him trash talk SF IV once it's out of the EVO roster. :lol

By the way,I just heard that Wong was saying to random people that SSFIV was ass at NEC,but off the record of course. :p Although I can't confirm anything as I just don't have the time to invest myself in FG seriously and thus don't attend tournaments.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, you are taking this a bit too seriously, do not you? It is perfectly fine to say whatever you want in a heated tournament day, after or before some matches. Hell, we are often saying exaggerated stuff like that on live events. I wonder what would happen if some of our readers would overhear our conversation about how "SSFIV is a broken piece of shit" while I gave it 9.5 a year ago. And I still play it. And we all love it.

Just imagine the scenario. Now, exactly that is what happens. Shit goes out, and some people are , "omg, I heard Wong hates SSFIV! And AE too!". Yeah, likely. That is why he keeps playing it, right? :D

Chill out, do not take random comments seriously.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Daigo going to play a rushdown character? Interesting...

well he's known for rushing down (attacking style) anyways in every game he's touched aside from a few match ups in Super IV.
 
U

USD

Member
Probably should have taken notes, because my points are all over the place

-After Yun, Yang, and Fei Long, he ranked Zangief, Balrog, and C. Viper.

-He thinks Ken will be stronger than Ryu and Gouki, though they're still upper tier.

-With the nerfs, he puts Guile at upper-mid

-With the EX Green Hand changes, Sagat will have a favorable match-up against Zangief. Puts Sagat at the bottom of the upper tier

-Seriously, half of his evaluation is, "Can they beat Zangief?" :lol

-Balrog will be a touch match-up for both Yun and Yang, since they don't have a punish for Dash Straight, and he has his crouching fierce

-Apparently Dhalsim's st.LK is slower
 
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