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[DryEyeRelief]

AE I hope. In this day and age there is no reason not to offer periodic balance patches.

It'd be good for us but is there incentive for capcom to do it? Not really. They risk drowning out people with their brand as opposed to keeping it relevant.

 

[Conceited]

Whatever game has Daigo wins competitively. People just don't care that much about Justin, Ricky, Fchamp etc.

Just check the viewers for a stream of an event with all the top US players, and then one with all the top US players and Daigo. Daigo boosts viewership by 5,000-8,000 or more.

There are just too many casual viewers who only care about watching Daigo play, so SSF4 will almost certainly remain the champ of the competitive scene.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Whatever game has Daigo wins competitively. People just don't care that much about Justin, Ricky, Fchamp etc.

Just check the viewers for a stream of an event with all the top US players, and then one with all the top US players and Daigo. Daigo boosts viewership by 5,000-8,000 or more.

There are just too many casual viewers who only care about watching Daigo play, so SSF4 will almost certainly remain the champ of the competitive scene.

From the perspective of stream monsters.

Scary that the scene is being defined solely on spectators and not the players themselves.

 

[Conceited]

From the perspective of stream monsters.

Scary that the scene is being defined solely on spectators.

Well MVC3 could certainly be more popular with players, I mean MVC3 might have double the entrants SSF4 does at EVO, but people will almost certainly still want to watch SSF4 more.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Well MVC3 could certainly be more popular with players, I mean MVC3 might have double the entrants SSF4 does at EVO, but people will almost certainly still want to watch SSF4 more.

SF4 more fun to watch than play, confirmed?

Sorry, I couldn't handle "champ of the competitive scene" with that suggestion. More like center of dickriding/fanboys/whatever, which I agree, it could very well be.

 

[Conceited]

SF4 more fun to watch than play, confirmed?

Sorry, I couldn't handle "champ of the competitive scene" with that suggestion. More like center of dickriding/fanboys/whatever, which I agree, it could very well be.

Well then what determines the "champ of the competitive scene"? More scrubs wanting to play? All the top players in US, EU and some of Japan are going to at least try this game anyways, it's not like the player base (especially the top players) will end up much different from SSF4. It's also very unlikely that the people who play SSF4 now will stop to play MVC3 exclusively, so it doesn't have that going for it either.

The money, prizes, stream time and sponsorships will always go to the more popular game with the viewers. Nobody wants to stream Tekken when SSF4 is happening because these events are sponsored, sponsors want their ads to be seen, and streamers want more viewers for ad revenue and exposure.

You can cry stream monsters and dickriders all day but with streams being one of the most integral parts in the survival of the fighting game scene, viewers (however casual they may be) are important.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Well then what determines the "champ of the competitive scene"? More scrubs wanting to play? All the top players in US, EU and some of Japan are going to at least try this game anyways, it's not like the player base (especially the top players) will end up much different from SSF4. It's also very unlikely that the people who play SSF4 now will stop to play MVC3 exclusively, so it doesn't have that going for it either.

The money, prizes, stream time and sponsorships will always go to the more popular game with the viewers. Nobody wants to stream Tekken when SSF4 is happening because these events are sponsored, sponsors want their ads to be seen, and streamers want more viewers for ad revenue and exposure.

You can cry stream monsters and dickriders all day but with streams being one of the most integral parts in the survival of the fighting game scene, viewers (however casual they may be) are important.

Nobody wants to stream tekken yet tekken tournaments happen because...?

Beyond the whole internet celebrity status associated with sf4 right now, reality is streams may be modified to pander to an internet audience, but the actual events aren't. Those are designed around attendance.

If the tournament scene is kept alive through the daigo fanboys, that's fine. it doesn't mean anything to the people who actually go to play games, as long as they get to do it. And in your proposed scenario? MvC3 having twice as many people but televised sf4 making it possible? Sounds about as relevant as a normal tournament sponsor to a player.

Also, it isn't as extreme as your suggest. Daigo adds viewers, but tournaments are still streamed without him participating. Daigo's popularity is a product of SF4 being popular, not the other way around. If Marvel 3 is getting twice as many people, then it's going to be something bigger than his celebrity. And finally with every new fighting game added with sf4 getting older, it adds less stock to his cult, because there will be newer people introduced who don't care about the daigo parry.

 

[Hitokage]

Streams happen because people like haunts and sp00ky are fucking heroes and want to share hype with the world.

Tournaments happen for the people who are actually there, period.

 

[Spiderjericho]

Streams happen because people like haunts and sp00ky are fucking heroes and want to share hype with the world.

Tournaments happen for the people who are actually there, period.

Yeah, I don't quite understand the economic incentive for them to hold these streams. On Saturday during the BBC, Spooky mentioned in passing Seb of Frame-advantage choosing to go work for MLG versus the grass-root method he had previously.

And personally, I don't really have much time for video games. But Mahvel seems fun. Though I do see the validity of Sentinel, X-Factor, etc. But it's the initial release. Hopefully, they patch it. It seems like they built in the hook$ for the future.

And it doesn't seem like we'll be finding out anytime soon about AE or SSFIV Third Strike or whatever they want to call it.

 

[Conceited]

Nobody wants to stream tekken yet tekken tournaments happen because...?

Beyond the whole internet celebrity status associated with sf4 right now, reality is streams may be modified to pander to an internet audience, but the actual events aren't. Those are designed around attendance.

If the tournament scene is kept alive through the daigo fanboys, that's fine. it doesn't mean anything to the people who actually go to play games, as long as they get to do it. And in your proposed scenario? MvC3 having twice as many people but televised sf4 making it possible? Sounds about as relevant as a normal tournament sponsor to a player.

Also, it isn't as extreme as your suggest. Daigo adds viewers but tournaments are still streamed without him participating. And with every new fighting game added with sf4 getting older, it adds less stock to his cult, because there will be newer people introduced who don't care about the daigo parry.

Tekken tournaments happen because people want to play the game, but do you see them consistently getting pot bonuses at tournaments? or any game other than SSF4 for that matter? I'm sure I could find 100 people to play any relatively competitive game and have them pay a $5 entry fee and then split the pot, that isn't exactly difficult as long as you have the venue. Having a $20,000 payout is another story all together.

This discussion about who is the "champion" of the competitive fighting game scene, so I ask again, what makes the champion of the fighting game scene? More random players? More pot bonuses? More sponsors? Daigo?

I can't see MvC3 winning any of those battles over SSF4 even if it does win the freshness or fun to watch factor.

 

[Hitokage]

Tekken tournaments happen because people want to play the game, but do you see them consistently getting pot bonuses at tournaments? or any game other than SSF4 for that matter? I'm sure I could find 100 people to play any relatively competitive game and have them pay a $5 entry fee and then split the pot, that isn't exactly difficult as long as you have the venue. Having a $20,000 payout is another story all together.

This discussion about who is the "champion" of the competitive fighting game scene, so I ask again, what makes the champion of the fighting game scene? More random players? More pot bonuses? More sponsors? Daigo?

I can't see MvC3 winning any of those battles over SSF4 even if it does win the freshness or fun to watch factor.

What are these tournaments with huge pot bonuses? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[MIMIC]

I am an OVERACHIEVER!

I'm really starting to like Zangief. I was going for the Team lobby achievement and I was using him. I managed to land a standing Super AND a standing Ultra ^_^

 

[Spiderjericho]

I think in Japan, SSFIV will remain relevant (moreso than MVC3 since it doesn't have an arcade release...which hmm...MVC3 AE...DLC patch).

SSFIV has yet to have a $20,000 payout. Fighting-games seem like they're still a niche demographic and audience when compared to Madden, Halo, Call of Duty, PC FPS.

And I think it's a little too early to decide how relevant MVC3 will be. Right now, it has freshness and accessibility. But with the top-level players (Wong, Marn, Ross, etc) voicing their opinions. But these same players will go where the money and competition is.

 

[Conceited]

What are these tournaments with huge pot bonuses? What the hell are you talking about?

Evo, Canada Cup, Season Beatings, any major? They've all had $1,000+ pot bonuses.

 

[Hitokage]

You were talking five digits.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Tekken tournaments happen because people want to play the game, but do you see them consistently getting pot bonuses at tournaments? or any game other than SSF4 for that matter? I'm sure I could find 100 people to play any relatively competitive game and have them pay a $5 entry fee and then split the pot, that isn't exactly difficult as long as you have the venue. Having a $20,000 payout is another story all together.

This discussion about who is the "champion" of the competitive fighting game scene, so I ask again, what makes the champion of the fighting game scene? More random players? More pot bonuses? More sponsors? Daigo?

I can't see MvC3 winning any of those battles over SSF4 even if it does win the freshness or fun to watch factor.

Well it certainly isn't daigo, which is the root of this entire exchange.

 

[Professor Beef]

Hey there, everyone! Thanks to the wave of juniors, I finally got my account activated. I wanted to know if there was anyone willing to get in a couple of games of Super for PS3 at the moment, since I got the itch to start playing it again over the weekend, and I wanted to get some of the rust off.

 

[FindMyFarms]

With regards to total tourney payouts (bonuses + entrants + etc.) MLG tekken events surpassed SF4 majors by a decent margin. EVO is the exception I believe.

 

[Conceited]

You were talking five digits.

Fine, the pot for EVO was over $20,000, not the actual payout itself, happy now?

 

[Spiderjericho]

With regards to total tourney payouts (bonuses + entrants + etc.) MLG tekken events surpassed SF4 majors by a decent margin. EVO was probably the only exception, and even then the MLG Dallas finale paid out more.

MLG-organized events and Blizzard games seem to be where the money is at in professional games.

Justin Wong has to work a job. Marn left EG. And the Emp use their winnings to pay for Tri-force's rent.

Tournament attendance and spectating seem to be because we love these games.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Fine, the pot for EVO was over $20,000, not the actual payout itself, happy now?

And that's determined by the people who actually go to the tournament, holy shit.

 

[Conceited]

And that's determined by the people who actually go to the tournament, holy shit.

So there were 5,000 entrants to SSF4 then?

You can't just dismiss pot bonuses like that.

This is going nowhere since nobody can seem to say what makes a game the at the top of the competitive scene.

 

[The Hermit]

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/development_blog/2011/02/22_3050.html

Well, they updated the changes in Gief, Sagat, Dan, Dudley, Hakan and Adon.

Someone who know japanese care to translate?

 

[Spiderjericho]

Someone who know japanese care to translate?

Sends out the call to USD

 

[Xevren]

I am an OVERACHIEVER!

I'm really starting to like Zangief. I was going for the Team lobby achievement and I was using him. I managed to land a standing Super AND a standing Ultra ^_^

Grats dude. C to shining C is just too much for me.

 

[Brobzoid]

USD is busy stream monstering no doubt. He'll check in soon enough.

Spoiler

priority on Adon plz USD! :3

 

[DryEyeRelief]

So there were 5,000 entrants to SSF4 then?

You can't just dismiss pot bonuses like that.

1. Entry fee wasn't five bucks.
2. Pot bonuses are determined by entries.

This is going nowhere since nobody can seem to say what makes a game the at the top of the competitive scene.

Scary that the scene is being defined solely on spectators and not the players themselves.

it doesn't mean anything to the people who actually go to play games

Tournaments happen for the people who are actually there, period.

And that's determined by the people who actually go to the tournament, holy shit.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

So I'm actually liking this game again and plan on getting my Bison to A+ before my tourney this Saturday. Got a nice amount, so I'm at 18706. PP went up 36 points too. Would be higher but lost to a scrub Ryu do to a headstomp not coming out. Dat minus 107 points. But I got most of it back from the following 4 matches. ^_^

 

[USD]

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/development_blog/2011/02/22_3050.html

ZANGIEF
-From startup to 3F, Double Lariat is invincible from the feet up; reaches active at 4F
-From there, a hurtbox appears above the waist and at the feet
-Because of the gap between hurtboxes, if you can properly bait out your opponent, you can counter

Double Lariat's hitbox

SAGAT
-st.HK, useful for armor breaks and anti-air, has a hitbox at the knee for the first hit, and for the second, has a large hitbox from the thigh to the foot
-Because the first hit is 5F and the second is 7F, you can easily counter simple jump-ins
-The second hit only does 40 damage, so based on the distance, we recommend using the unique attack Step High Kick (F+HK)
-Step High Kick → EX Ground Tiger Shot combos for 220 damage, 300 stun

st.HK (1st hit) hitbox

st.HK (2nd hit) hitbox

DAN
-Specific numbers for Dan's normals missing from the last blog:
st.LP recovers 4F faster, +7 on hit
cl.HK recovers 4F faster, +6 on hit
-Hitboxes are the same as in Super

st.LP's hitbox

cl.HK's hitbox

-nj.HP juggles and causes known down, so HP Koryuken → FADC → nj.HP combos for 240 damage, 400 stun


DUDLEY
-EX Ducking is upper-body invincible from startup to 14F, completely projectile-invincible
-Follow-ups are possible from the 3F, and since they juggle, you can do various combos
-Example: cr.HK → Ducking → Ducking Straight → EX Ducking → EX Ducking Upper (296 damage, 480 stun) is possible
-After EX Ducking in the corner, you can connect Corkscrew Cross, so try using EX Ducking

EX Ducking's hitbox

HAKAN
-Oil can last for up to 30 seconds in AE (15 max in Super)
-After Oil Slide, the Kick follow-up Oil Shower added. Same oil time as LK Oil Shower, puts Hakan at +14
-Oil Rocket's hitbox is noticably larger when oiled than when dry, so if you have the chance, oil up

Oil Rocket's hitbox (Normal state)

Oil Rocket's hitbox (Oiled state)

ADON
-st.LP's hitbox is larger at the fist, while the hurtbox was cut to the elbow
-st.MK's hurtbox at the foot is significantly reduced

st.LP's hitbox

st.MK's hitbox

-cl.MK forces stand on grounded opponents, so combos with it are easier to connect (no changes to the hitbox, however)

And that wraps up the AE development blog and character guide.

 

[Solune]

1. Entry fee wasn't five bucks.
2. Pot bonuses are determined by entries.

He's a stream monster who likes to get blown up, you can't use logic with those types.

marvel is difficult? lol

i'm not arguing with you on the cheapness point; i'm simply saying that x factor really makes me NOT like the game as much as i COULD HAVE. the game's fun, i'll still play it casually but it's just not "for me"...at least until final round is over with and i can spend an extended period of time with it...gotta brush up on those ssf4 matchups.

and lack of skill? i hope that wasn't directed to me :/

Hating XFactor is a legitimate reason to dislike it, I'm definitely not going to try to argue that point. It's not for everyone. I can see how I can come off as an ass but I assure you I'm quite the nice guy, it's just when I see "Hello SF4 I want to embrace you because Marvel is TOO CHEAP" it's laughable. There's quite a difference between saying Marvel's cheap and saying Marvel is not my game. Hitsugi nailed it with his post on how Marvel is too different from SF4 to compare the two.

Anyways I wasn't trying to be an ass either. I bid you good luck at Final Round.

Also thanks to Eraldo for the shoutouts, good job on taking 3rd at MvC3 matches. We should play on PSN sometime.

 

[galvan]

Sup everyone i'm new to this forum, I play ssfiv and a few other fighters. I haven't played super lately in a while because I don't have a console but I do play lots of st/3s and random stuff on supercade. I look forward to gaming with the gaf users in the future.

also, Hi andre, adnan, joe, max.

 

[Culinary]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I think I'm done with Marvel for now.

 

[Hitokage]

Speaking of Final Round,

ABOUT THAT MEETUP...

 

[Joekage]

Sup everyone i'm new to this forum, I play ssfiv and a few other fighters. I haven't played super lately in a while because I don't have a console but I do play lots of st/3s and random stuff on supercade. I look forward to gaming with the gaf users in the future.

also, Hi andre, adnan, joe, max.

Yo ugh! Didn't know you got a GAF account. Good stuff. We gotta get some games in sometime, haven't seen you in forever man!

Anyways, I'm starting to feel like my Ken is slowly getting better. My anti-air game is good, Footsies are adequate and mixup off of knockdown isn't bad either. I have to work on his safe jump setups and character specific combos but I think making him my secondary was a good choice. Specially with AE on the horizon. Shoutouts to Eva for the inspiration and DBJ for dat practice. Stay free DBJ.

 

[Edgeward]

Hey there, everyone! Thanks to the wave of juniors, I finally got my account activated. I wanted to know if there was anyone willing to get in a couple of games of Super for PS3 at the moment, since I got the itch to start playing it again over the weekend, and I wanted to get some of the rust off.

Sure, Jammin Ninja, add me on PSN: Edgeward34. I'll invite you to the chat where gaffers meet up to get matches in. It is kinda barren atm with mvc3 still the hawt shit, but I'm always there.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Fighting games will never pull the numbers FPS do. Not with the current crop of games. That's just my opinion. Unless something revolutionary comes and blows everybody's mind. The player base for Halo, COD, all the PC games is just too big.

 

[dragonballjoseph]

Sup everyone i'm new to this forum, I play ssfiv and a few other fighters. I haven't played super lately in a while because I don't have a console but I do play lots of st/3s and random stuff on supercade. I look forward to gaming with the gaf users in the future.

also, Hi andre, adnan, joe, max.

So I'm guessing that since you know those guys, you're also from Texass. But maybe you're not as free as they are. ^_^

Speaking of Final Round,

ABOUT THAT MEETUP...

Party in Farms' room. ^_^

 

[Professor Beef]

Sure, Jammin Ninja, add me on PSN: Edgeward34. I'll invite you to the chat where gaffers meet up to get matches in. It is kinda barren atm with mvc3 still the hawt shit, but I'm always there.

Request sent!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Speaking of Final Round,

ABOUT THAT MEETUP...

I'm too poor to go to Final Round. Anyone going to CEO?

 

[Infinite Justice]

I'm too poor to go to Final Round. Anyone going to CEO?

do it the Ryu way

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

As much as I want to keep the torch burning for Hokan, it's time to put the lid on the oil canister.

Online play (I am willing to admit my DSL isn't the greatest in the world; however it's the only option available to me in this area) isn't very good for me. If the netcode in this game were better it may be more bearable, but I live in America, 15th in the world for Internet connection speeds. :|

This leads to a lot of frustration as it fundamentally breaks aspects of the game which make SF fun to play competitively and locally. Missing throws because of bad connections. Missing easy punishes because of missed inputs online. It just gives me fits. I know I'm not Daigo, but I'm not Simple Jack either. Unfortunately a lot of my online matches just end with me going "Puh puh please d-d-don't hurt me no more."

Ignoring the online play, I'm just sick of the simplified inputs. They really should be an ISM or Easy Operation mode for new players. It's absurd that MvC3 offers more control input options than a SF game, especially one with input softening that reads DFx2 as Dragon Punch motion, or a QCF ending up/forward as a 360 motion.

I do not want this.

People tell me "Tighten up your execution". To which I respond, what? The execution that has worked for the past 20 years of playing fighting games ranging from SF2 - VF4e?

Please, just give me the option to use the same inputs I've used for years, that have always worked, and that I built up the skill to pull off (an actual SPD instead of an assisted one).

I just find the input softening to be game breaking for me. Just to test myself, I went and played some SF2, my input still worked. KoF2002UM, my input still worked. KoF12, my input still worked. BB:CS, my input still worked.

Pisses me off that Ono would implement this control change and not give players the choice. I'm really hoping he doesn't change anything game play wise with 3S Online. And better luck with SF5 Capcom, I want to be able to combo my F+MP into Oil Slide reliably and not get F+MP into missed Oil Rocket. >:|

Take it easy SF GAF. Hopefully I'll see you on the 3S Online flip side.

 

[Hitokage]

or a QCF ending up/forward as a 360 motion.

Sounds like you throw fireballs like chicken wings.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Sounds like you throw fireballs like chicken wings.

Yeah, I tried to restrict it. I tried to change from ball top to bat top since that's what I'm used to using, and it's not reliably coming out.

I want to love the game, it is Street Fighter (even if I dislike the visuals); but dammit - this is the only fighting game I play where the inputs that have worked for decades are now busted and unreliable.

That's fine for new audiences, pad players, and folks who didn't grow up in arcades.

I would still really love to see it as a selectable option. It is the primary reason I'm calling it quits. I can go back to 3S, SF2, or any other non Capcom fighter today and have no problem.

I'll still monkey around with local matches if my friends are playing; but trying to improve at this game is over. It's not for me. I tried.

 

[Hitokage]

Using HCF is better for walkup hadoukens, anyway.

 

[Professor Beef]

Good games, Edgeward! I'm such a sucker for Cammy's low attacks.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Using HCF is better for walkup hadoukens, anyway.

I'm still wondering why we have charge characters in 2011.

Serious question.

Guile (for example) wouldn't be any different if Sonic Boom were QCF and Flash Kick a DP motion. It would still be timed and handled by the presets of the game engine, and it would make using some of his moves with the FADC more effective.

Just given the context of where SF4 is with the game engine, you could most likely safely remove all legacy charge moves and come out with a better play experience for those characters.

All that said, Guile is probably my safest character as there's less room for error with his inputs and the new input softening system.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm still wondering why we have charge characters in 2011.

Serious question.

Guile (for example) wouldn't be any different if Sonic Boom were QCF and Flash Kick a DP motion. It would still be timed and handled by the presets of the game engine, and it would make using some of his moves with the FADC more effective.

Just given the context of where SF4 is with the game engine, you could most likely safely remove all legacy charge moves and come out with a better play experience for those characters.

All that said, Guile is probably my safest character as there's less room for error with his inputs and the new input softening system.

Wouldn't that skew balance a bit though? I mean, aren't all of his normals and damage numbers based around the fact that he's limited by having to charge his specials?

 

[Threi]

if sonic boom and flashkick was qcf guile would be horribly broken.

horribly, HORRIBLY broken

 

[Infinite Justice]

if sonic boom and flashkick was qcf guile would be horribly broken.

horribly, HORRIBLY broken

Given the amount of sonic booms unleashed in a match already (Die, Warahk, that Die vs Rubelo match) i can imagine the horror if it was qcf

 

[Widdly Scuds]

No need to imagine with the PC version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3SNj9_LE9Y