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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT3| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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Mœbius

Member
Ok, I remember people said similar stuff about Super when videos first appeared and it turned out to be rubbish, but it seems from the AE videos that the game is running slightly faster than Super.

Is it just my imagination or is there some kind of technical wizardry explanation for it?
 

haunts

Bacon of Hope
DR2K said:
The playing to win mentality is looked down upon by the playing for fun mentality. (and vice versa) they always clash.

ive always found winning to be pretty fun and losing to be pretty shitty.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
haunts said:

5 years earlier...

0z2CN.jpg
 

DR2K

Banned
hitsugi said:
to some, playing to win IS fun..

or abusing broken shit in games, etc.

everyone has a different definition of these things, but not picking a character because they've become a bandwagon choice? eh.. I think that all comes down to playstyles, as I believe someone previously mentioned.

Take a look at top Akumas, for example. Going back to Vanilla - Momochi, Tokido, Sako and K66 all had completely different playstyles, but were all good with a very popular character. Same for Kaqn, Daigo, Momochi, Poongko, etc. with Ryu. There were little differences that made each of them stand out in some way.

If you like a character, play them.. and if you really like them you should be able to shine above the people that are using them for whatever other reason.

No one had fun using Sagat in vanilla. Neither playing against him or using him. Ironically he's still a good character, mostly the same, and he was abandoned like the red headed step child of the family. I think almost every other match ended with a counter pick for Sagat in vanilla, lol. Playing the same match ups was not fun.

Of course there's marvel, but the top characters really brought out the fun shit in the system that lower characters couldn't.

Of course winning can be fun, but so is playing a new match up. Someone taking a low tier character to the top is the most hype shit in any community.

They both have their positives and negatives and can be interchangeable at times.
 

zlatko

Banned
I find the lack of Yun and Yang footage disturbing. I want to see the final result after location tests. I also want to see the different colors for their outfits, and of course I want to see how better players than myself handle them in fights.
 

DR2K

Banned
Satyamdas said:
Please tell me more about your universal psychic abilities, they sound pretty rad!!

No one really mained Sagat (in America) at least, but he was always used as a counter pick whenever people lost with the characters they really wanted to win with. Where are all the Sagat players now? He's still a good character, he's still Sagat, the fundamentals are still there, but now that it takes effort to win with him, so people dropped his ass. Like Ms.Cleo, I'm using common sense.
 

Satyamdas

Banned
DR2K said:
No one really mained Sagat (in America) at least, but he was always used as a counter pick whenever people lost with the characters they really wanted to win with. Where are all the Sagat players now? He's still a good character, he's still Sagat, the fundamentals are still there, but now that it takes effort to win with him, so people dropped his ass. Like Ms.Cleo, I'm using common sense.
Not really dude, because you have no way of knowing whether people enjoyed using him or not regardless of whether he was being mained or used as a counterpick. And how do you know that no one enjoyed fighting against him? What criteria are you using to come to this conclusion? Sim vs. Sagat was a nightmare in Vanilla and I still had tons of fun trying to win against him and work my way through a million tiger shots. I doubt I was the only person in all of America who had fun fighting Sagat. You are making an impossible leap to claim that no one had fun using or fighting him, unless you really do want to confess to some awesome psychic powers.
 

GeoNeo

I disagree.
http://www.ozhadou.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5254&p=97477

User named Genxa posting some real nice posts regarding AE in Tokyo.

Hey guys

Some of you may know I am in Tokyo at the moment.
I was lucky enough to be invited by Mago to play AE today on release date.

I went to Ikebukuro Safari game center with Heet, around 3pm, and god damn it was packed as shit.

I walk in and look around, and first person i recognise close to me was Daigo.
On the next machine was Mago.

I walk over to take a look, and Daigo was using Yun, and Mago was using Yang.
Both had already had ridiculous amounts of wins on their cards.

Although I didnt recognise the face, but seeing the card name and character, on another machine was Elf God TKD... HP-ing people in the face.

As I was waiting for my turn, Mago turned around and recognised me, was surprised that I suddenly appeared behind him.
We shook hands and he continued to rape people. At this point, his Yang card was about 40~ wins and 1loss.
Mago then lost to someone without a card. He gestured me to have a seat and try.

I pick Cammy first game to see her changes, and sat down next to Daigo.
He looked over and he also was surprised as shit hahahaha

He turns over to Mago and said... this guy is from Sydney Australia!
and Mago was like... Yes I know! I met him in Melbourne!

I felt special..... hahahaha

Quick highlights:
Daigo only used Yun the whole night, but I am guessing it is just his Sub character because his card name is Umehara (in Hiregana writing), while usually his Ryu card is Umehara (in Katakana writing).

Mago started a Fei card, and was on a 76win streak until he finally got his first loss.... god damn wata beast.

I beat TKD's Elf 4 times tonight with Cammy.

By the end of the night, Daigo Yun was over 200wins with single digit loss, and over 15000bp
Mago Yang was about 100 wins and single digit loss, about 10000bp
and his Fei was 76win 1 loss, about 9xxxbp

I had been practising Yang all night, and tommorow I will be practicing Yun, and will return to Syd at night.

I only just finished playing with them until the game center wouldnt change money anymore.
As I left, I told Daigo I was leaving tommorow, and he looked surprised, and said "See you again, in Australia!" He very politely stood up from the machine to shake my hand.

I also said goodbye to Mago and shook his hand, and I asked him to come to Aus again, and he said OK! and gave me the "OK" hang gesture.

Then I came here... a net cafe......
 

DR2K

Banned
Satyamdas said:
Not really dude, because you have no way of knowing whether people enjoyed using him or not regardless of whether he was being mained or used as a counterpick. And how do you know that no one enjoyed fighting against him? What criteria are you using to come to this conclusion? Sim vs. Sagat was a nightmare in Vanilla and I still had tons of fun trying to win against him and work my way through a million tiger shots. I doubt I was the only person in all of America who had fun fighting Sagat. You are making an impossible leap to claim that no one had fun using or fighting him, unless you really do want to confess to some awesome psychic powers.

Sim vs Sagat was considered a 5-5 match up, was it not?

Yes, I'm making blanket statements to generalize the situation. He wasn't a fun character to play against, it was bullet hell for a lot of character, then after bullet hell it's like dealing with a tank armed with nuclear weapons. How is a lopsided match up fun to fight against? Most people didn't care for this, so nerfs happened for a reason. Do you see anyone complaining about the Sagat match up now or begging for him to be returned to its former vanilla glory, cause the match up was so fun? For such an amazing character, people still preferred using other characters until they were desperate for a win. Once he's properly balanced, no one uses him. Minus the broken shit, he's essentially still the same "fun" character. This is the case when the playing to win mentality gets just becomes annoying and detrimental to fun, in my opinion, based on what I've seen and heard.

EDIT- I really don't want to cause any more trouble, so we can discuss it in PM if you want. Sorry for the derail.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Bison Guile is 7-3 and it's one of my favorite matchups in the game.

But anyway, Sagat was mained by a couple of guys in NA during vanilla (LI Joe and I believe 200 Yen?)
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
I liked fighting Sagat in Vanilla.

SmokeMaxX said:
Bison Guile is 7-3 and it's one of my favorite matchups in the game.

But anyway, Sagat was mained by a couple of guys in NA during vanilla (LI Joe and I believe 200 Yen?)

Floe and Haunts too
 
A month back I went online in PC SF4 and after 2 hours of that the thought that ran though my head the most is "FUCK Sagat". Seriously fuck vanilla Sagat and his ridiculous damage output.

Man I still get angry thinking about it. Fuck it I'm going back to vanilla soon so I can try and hunt down every Sagat I come across. Keep throwing tigers and up backing, sooner or later I'll get you.
 

zlatko

Banned
haunts said:
just go ahead and quote me and post my avatar so we can get this over with.

sagatgotnerfed.png


Ask and you shall receive. :lol

Seriously though Sagat as character is a cool ass dude. My biggest issue with him is that I hate his walk speed. I can't feel like I'm stuck in molasses.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Rice-Eater said:
A month back I went online in PC SF4 and after 2 hours of that the thought that ran though my head the most is "FUCK Sagat". Seriously fuck vanilla Sagat and his ridiculous damage output.

Man I still get angry thinking about it. Fuck it I'm going back to vanilla soon so I can try and hunt down every Sagat I come across. Keep throwing tigers and up backing, sooner or later I'll get you.

I thought Ryu/Sagat was like 4.5/5.5 in Sagat's favor. Not a terrible matchup.
 

Satyamdas

Banned
DR2K said:
Sim vs Sagat was considered a 5-5 match up, was it not?
Are you serious? No. Gat/Sim was 5-5 only if your name was Iyo. Otherwise that shit was 6-4 or worse in Sagat's favor. You have to remember Sim did less damage in Vanilla, while Sagat did a shitload more.

DR2K said:
Yes, I'm making blanket statements to generalize the situation. He wasn't a fun character to play against, it was bullet hell for a lot of character, then after bullet hell it's like dealing with a tank armed with nuclear weapons. How is a lopsided match up fun to fight against? Most people didn't care for this, so nerfs happened for a reason. Do you see anyone complaining about the Sagat match up now or begging for him to be returned to its former vanilla glory, cause the match up was so fun? For such an amazing character, people still preferred using other characters until they were desperate for a win. Once he's properly balanced, no one uses him. Minus the broken shit, he's essentially still the same "fun" character. This is the case when the playing to win mentality gets just becomes annoying and detrimental to fun, in my opinion, based on what I've seen and heard.

EDIT- I really don't want to cause any more trouble, so we can discuss it in PM if you want. Sorry for the derail.
All I'm saying is you aren't in anybody else's head, so claiming that no one had fun playing as or fighting against Sagat is your own projection, not reality.
 
Timedog said:
I thought Ryu/Sagat was like 4.5/5.5 in Sagat's favor. Not a terrible matchup.

It's not that I thought the match up was terrible(altough definitely in Sagat's favor), it's just what you have to put up with when you face Sagat. I don't need to go into detail, we all know what I'm talking about. I don't blame the players either, I just hate defensive characters. Difference is that when you got in on Dhalsim or Blanka, they couldn't do 600+ damage off a random "safe" special(with 2 bars that is) like Sagat could.

I was actually kind of feeling sorry for Sagat but after spending some time playing Vanilla again my thoughts are "Fuck that". I'm glad Sagat is what he is now.
 
Rice-Eater said:
It's not that I thought the match up was terrible(altough definitely in Sagat's favor), it's just what you have to put up with when you face Sagat. I don't need to go into detail, we all know what I'm talking about. I don't blame the players either, I just hate defensive characters. Difference is that when you got in on Dhalsim or Blanka, they couldn't do 600+ damage off a random "safe" special(with 2 bars that is) like Sagat could.
.

For comparison, how much damage can vanilla ryu do with dp fadc ultra on full bar?
 

gutabo

Member
Sagat vs honda in Vanilla was really, really bad(a.k.a. "infinite sadness"). The fight itself was not fun at all. And lag made it even harder("please don't complain about not being able to punish headbutts 100% of the time, I can complain about having to guess instead of being able to react to sagat's bullshit"). I don't really remember if the feeling of beating sagat made it worth it. Well, tbh I don't really understand what you're talking about(I just woke up-still restarting my brain- and I was looking for more AE news) but just wanted to mention that matchup. Yeah.

And haunts, please do more "haunts vs the world" stuff!
 
DryEyeRelief said:

Thanks man! First yang vid is between my two mains. : (

Edit: That Ibuki owned a lot of people in those vids.
 

USD

Member
Yeah, it looks like Ibuki's Neckbreaker puts her a bit farther back. That's much worse than the stun reduction.
 
TimeKillr said:
Yeah but it does such SHIT damage.. It's against Seth and it barely does anything. Granted, Seth's life has been buffed a bit, but still...
6 hits before ultra however it took 50% off seth
 

TimeKillr

Member
_dementia said:
And it looks like you can do follow-up damage but the player fucked it up.

Yeah.

It just makes me angry anyway - Makoto's U1 can't hit in juggle state, but Yun's can?

Hopefully what people have been saying is true and that she's better overall anyway. Her buffs are nice and all, but she still will have a hell of a time against zoners. Capcom was dead set on making her "weak against fireballs", but it's still ridiculous :)

Let's hope ex hayate -> fukiage works against everyone now in the corner, and is as easy as it is against T.Hawk...
 
_dementia said:
And it looks like you can do follow-up damage but the player fucked it up.
can you? i mean thats natural in 3S it's probably doubtful with sf4 juggle system unless maybe ex? also noticed weird juggle state stuff with Juri in Air/Kim's youtube video with FSE activated a combo ended with ex-pinwheel in the corner followed by standing strong juggled and got flipback.
 
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