Support NeoGAF

[Satyamdas]

That good is the key. And yes, his mixups are unsafe: if you block a dp or neutral jump an spd you can destroy him.

If your character can dash up and throw like Bison or Rose, or dash up and command grab like Abel or Seth, then I'd say that is a damn GOOD dash. Not bad in the slightest.

All mixups have an element of risk, but what makes Seth's more unsafe than anyone else's? His low health? For as good as his mixups are he HAS to have low health, otherwise he is broken.

He doesn't have 1000 stun and the nerfs to the stomps and the dive kick both hurt his game a lot. And i'm not even talking to the nerfs to both ultras.

Ok so he has 900 stun. That is still a HUGE buff dude, I don't know how you can spin it otherwise. His stomps nerf hurt his game a lot?! Really? Maybe it hurts beginners but I haven't seen one competent Seth player miss their stomps at all in AE. His dive kick nerf was needed and it still is a great tool. Dive kick > spd works just as good as it did in vanilla and Super.

Yun, Yang, Fei, Akuma, Viper, Makoto, Sakura, Ken, Sagat and Cammy are all better than him.

I was with you up until Sak, Ken, Sagat and Cammy being better than him. They are all solid, but Seth's vortex easily outclasses all of their offensive abilities, not to mention having a better dp than all of them.

 

[toypop]

Seriously, just watch Poongko vs Momochi and count all the unsafe DPs that he did. The fact that he mindfucked him has little to do with the character.

I'm no Seth player, but I heard these DPs were not that "unsafe".
Seth's DP has 2 chips when it blocked. So inputting OS FADC on every 2nd chip timing makes FADC will come only when his DP is blocked, won't happen when it hit.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I had no idea Seth's DP hit twice (unless you did the followup air DP, obviously)

 

[MightyKAC]

Hmmm..... Jacked up net code is jacked up.

 

[cackhyena]

That's been going on since Super rolled out in Endless searches for me. Every once in a while I just see two of the same name. One has great connection, the other is shite. It's weird.

 

[Satyamdas]

Man back in Vanilla you would get 5 or 6 of the same person in a search. And a lot of times refreshes wouldn't even help, you'd be stuck seeing them over and over. Capcom is making mad progress.

 

[MightyKAC]

Wow. I've been playing this since vanilla (psn) and I've never seen that before.

 

[Rice-Eater]

I had no idea Seth's DP hit twice (unless you did the followup air DP, obviously)

It only hits twice on block. For a long time I did not know this. I remember watching videos of Hiropon and wondering "how does it hit twice" because I kept going into the training room and doing his SRK on hit. Funny thing is that I play Seth quite a bit and get those 2 hit blocked SRK's a lot, and yet I never noticed it.

 

[SamVimes]

If your character can dash up and throw like Bison or Rose, or dash up and command grab like Abel or Seth, then I'd say that is a damn GOOD dash. Not bad in the slightest.

I don't know if it's enough to make up for his walkspeed.

All mixups have an element of risk, but what makes Seth's more unsafe than anyone else's? His low health? For as good as his mixups are he HAS to have low health, otherwise he is broken.

Viper? Her mixups leads to more damage, are safer AND she has more health.

Ok so he has 900 stun. That is still a HUGE buff dude, I don't know how you can spin it otherwise.

I'm not.

His stomps nerf hurt his game a lot?! Really? Maybe it hurts beginners but I haven't seen one competent Seth player miss their stomps at all in AE.

In some situations and against some characters i believe that you can do only one stomp.

His dive kick nerf was needed and it still is a great tool. Dive kick > spd works just as good as it did in vanilla and Super.

Except that if it's not spaced perfectly the opponent can just grab you out of whatever you want to do.

I was with you up until Sak, Ken, Sagat and Cammy being better than him. They are all solid, but Seth's vortex easily outclasses all of their offensive abilities, not to mention having a better dp than all of them.

You can argue about Sak, Sagat and Cammy, but Ken i think is definitely better.

Seth's DP has 2 chips when it blocked. So inputting OS FADC on every 2nd chip timing makes FADC will come only when his DP is blocked, won't happen when it hit.

If i remember correctly a lot of times he didn't even had the meter to fadc.

 

[Satyamdas]

I don't know if it's enough to make up for his walkspeed.

It most certainly is. He has a slow walkspeed because he has a teleport and a wall jump get him wherever he needs to go in an instant. Seriously, Seth does NOT have a mobility problem.

Viper? Her mixups leads to more damage, are safer AND she has more health.

No argument here, that is why she is a bit higher than Seth in my estimation. I'd put Viper in the top 5 and Seth between 5-10 somewhere.

 

[zlatko]

My personal top 10 tier list:

Yun, Fei, Yang, Viper, Akuma, M. Bison, Sagat, E. Honda,Ibuki , and Gief.

That's just what it seems like it is to me, and the only one I'm sketchy on is Honda.

 

[Yoshichan]

Ok, the fuck do I do with Yun when I get Gengei-Jin after hitconfirm? Everything is so damn damage-scaled

 

[sixteen-bit]

Ok, the fuck do I do with Yun when I get Gengei-Jin after hitconfirm? Everything is so damn damage-scaled

f.MK, f.MK, Zesshou until you carry the opponent into the corner and then palm a lot?

 

[Yoshichan]

f.MK, f.MK, Zesshou until you're in the corner and then palm a lot?

I can't palm more than once when I have him in the corner... need to do the hadoken-motion-move to get back in and that damage scaling is so bad ._.

 

[gutabo]

My personal top 10 tier list:
Yun, Fei, Yang, Viper, Akuma, M. Bison, Sagat, E. Honda,Ibuki , and Gief.

LOL, no. Just no. Mike Ross is top tier, Honda is not.

 

[kevo_huevo]

LOL, no. Just no. Mike Ross is top tier, Honda is not.

+100000

I find that people who don't play honda severely overrate him, while the people that play him and/or truly know his matchups understand just how average he is. He's probably C/C- tier now thanks to:

damage nerf
jumping strong's godlike hitbox gone
no lp headbutt anti-air
ultra 2 is useless now and can be escaped

 

[sixteen-bit]

ultra 2 is useless now and can be escaped

Wasn't UC2 always useless?

 

[Satyamdas]

+100000

I find that people who don't play honda severely overrate him, while the people that play him and/or truly know his matchups understand just how average he is. He's probably C/C- tier now thanks to:

damage nerf
jumping strong's godlike hitbox gone
no lp headbutt anti-air
ultra 2 is useless now and can be escaped

You guys are fucking killing me today. Honda C- tier?! Because of a tiny damage nerf and no lp headbutt AA? That jumping strong hitbox is still gdlk as fuck, it still beats Sim's anti airs (which are gdlk themselves) clean a majority of the time. J.mp hitbox was fucking retarded good in Vanilla & Super, and now it is just stupid good. Boo freaking hoo. U2 was already a non factor, and lp headbutt needed to get nerfed. Honda could just get a life lead and sit on down back forever and no one could open him up because they had to fear a headbutt AA even without meter. Dude is still mad solid. Probably dropped a tier but that's it.

 

[USD]

Wasn't UC2 always useless?

It definitely was useful. Mike Ross pretty much always used it against non-projectile characters.

 

[kevo_huevo]

It definitely was useful. Mike Ross pretty much always used it against non-projectile characters.

you couldnt escape jab hands fadc ultra 2. 99.9% of the time it worked.

 

[Threi]

if your ultra can hit someone off focus crumple (or if not it's a counter ultra), it's not useless.

 

[Conceited]

2 hour Nemo kumite if you want to learn Yang;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w92_YDPjcZo

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I can't palm more than once when I have him in the corner... need to do the hadoken-motion-move to get back in and that damage scaling is so bad ._.

I don't think anyone should complain about Geneijin, yea its scales, but would you have it any other way? If you're starting gj off of target combo then of course that'll make it worse. Start GJ off of st. mp xx mp shoulder or anti air upkick or mp shoulder alone.


You can palm about 80% of the cast twice in a row in the corner, it's character dependent. If you want something easy after f. mk/lunge carry to the wall, do: Lunge, palm, lunge, palm, palm, lunge, palm, lunge palm, palm, this is what dementia was talking about.

 

[Satyamdas]

you couldnt escape jab hands fadc ultra 2. 99.9% of the time it worked.

Sure you could, just like you can escape hands FADC Ochio.

 

[Cloudius12]

Honda is still up there, at least above Guile to say the lest.

 

[Conceited]

Marns stream is up;

http://www.twitch.tv/MarnORZ

 

[kevo_huevo]

Sure you could, just like you can escape hands FADC Ochio.

yeah, i was incorrect in saying that because if you attemp ochio or old u2 from out of range, it wouldn't work.

I was pretty confident that if you are in range of honda's old u2, you couldn't jump out of it (i heard "zero-frame grab" being thrown out there).

 

[Cloudius12]

yeah, i was incorrect in saying that because if you attemp ochio or old u2 from out of range, it wouldn't work.

I was pretty confident that if you are in range of honda's old u2, you couldn't jump out of it (i heard "zero-frame grab" being thrown out there).

iirc it was like Zangief U1.

if your ultra can hit someone off focus crumple (or if not it's a counter ultra), it's not useless.

I heard DeeJay U1 could not work after a Focus Crumple in Super, did it fix in AE?

 

[galvan]

Seth main here, he is definitely not top 10 in AE maybe in vanilla. He relies heavily on meter and he has to guess more than his opponent to win matches. I agree with seth having mobility but if you let him escape from the corner with wall jump then it's your fault, doesn't help that his teleport is pretty unsafe as well.

Midscreen battles are in your opponents favor because he practically has no footsies. His whole game relies on knocking the opponent down and starting a vortex from there. Nerfs didn't hurt him that much other than the stomps because it was easy using them for air to air. Seth was a much better character in super IMO

 

[Relix]

So much tier arguing means one thing....

HOLY SHIT AE IS BALANCED

 

[Imm0rt4l]

ITT: everyone complains about how shit their character is. I'm guilty of this as well, but to my credit Nobody would dare say Gouken is top 10, he's not even top 20 lol, I put in work regardless though.


Is anyone planning on doing a tier list anytime soon? I'm surprised Iplaywiner hasn't done anything for AE. I'd be especially interested in the twins matchups.

 

[USD]

Topanga TV's been streaming for a while, Oshino (#2 Adon in Japan) playing right now.

www.twitch.tv/topangatv

 

[sixteen-bit]

ITT: everyone complains about how shit their character is. I'm guilty of this as well, but to my credit Nobody would dare say Gouken is top 10, he's not even top 20 lol, I put in work regardless though.


Is anyone planning on doing a tier list anytime soon? I'm surprised Iplaywiner hasn't done anything for AE. I'd be especially interested in the twins matchups.

Arcadia put out a tier list in May I believe.

 

[notworksafe]

Other than my complete inability to do well against Guile and Yun, I'm pleased with AE's balance. I'm not saying it's totally balanced, I'm just saying I'm okay with how it plays right now. I suppose I'm in the minority though.

 

[zlatko]

Other than my complete inability to do well against Guile and Yun, I'm pleased with AE's balance. I'm not saying it's totally balanced, I'm just saying I'm okay with how it plays right now. I suppose I'm in the minority though.

I'm there with you. I'm a scrub though and I play Yang, but I don't feel I walk over anyone in the match ups playing him except maybe Makoto. That's the one match where I feel I can dictate the entire flow of combat thanks to palm.

 

[Threi]

I heard DeeJay U1 could not work after a Focus Crumple in Super, did it fix in AE?

nope.


In terms of tiers im not convinced DeeJay is better than Guile yet (and he won't be in this engine unless they completely rework the char), but he fights the twins well enough so I'm cool with it. Been noticing lately that not having bad habits goes a LOT further than what your char is capable of.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm just happy that Hawk lucked out and has a great MU against the Twins.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Arcadia put out a tier list in May I believe.

Oh yea that's right, but I was thinking more in line with the ones with the character matchups as well.

 

[SamVimes]

ITT: everyone complains about how shit their character is. I'm guilty of this as well, but to my credit Nobody would dare say Gouken is top 10, he's not even top 20 lol, I put in work regardless though.

In my defense i use Ken who i find is very strong.

 

[biosnake20]

Yeah even with the twins the balance is pretty good. Cody didnt get much better but the new crouch short is fun to abuse. Also cody vs the twins is hell.

 

[Neki]

playing this on a pad feels so awkward compared to Marvel. D: stupid shoulder buttons, lol.

 

[sixteen-bit]

playing this on a pad feels so awkward compared to Marvel. D: stupid shoulder buttons, lol.

May I suggest getting a pad with 6 face buttons?

 

[Rentahamster]

I would be sorta okay with the AE balance if it wasn't for the twins. Dhalsim vs everyone else is still okay-ish, but Dhalsim vs Twins is just ridiculous.


Didn't Ono say that Capcom corporate ordered him to intentionally make the game unbalanced? Like in pro-wrestling where you have villians and what not so that encourages people to have stronger feelings about it and cheer against them or something.

Am I misremembering that statement?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

haha it seems everybody on the gouken boards at srk has just about had it with the old bastard.

 

[USD]

Heh, I switch over to Marn's channel to see God's Beard getting blown up. For the second day in a row.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Heh, I switch over to Marn's channel to see God's Beard getting blown up. For the second day in a row.

Sucks, but at least he's getting the practice.

 

[Hex]

Was thinking of picking up for AE on pc also to compliment PS3 but I have no idea whether my MvC2 TE stick will work on pc and not quite ready to buy a second stick yet.

 

[Satyamdas]

yeah, i was incorrect in saying that because if you attemp ochio or old u2 from out of range, it wouldn't work.

I was pretty confident that if you are in range of honda's old u2, you couldn't jump out of it (i heard "zero-frame grab" being thrown out there).

That's not how it works. Grabs and grab ultras cannot grab a character in hitstun or blockstun. So if Honda does Hands FADC Ochio/U2, whether the hands hit or are blocked, the player can ALWAYS jump out (or teleport if they have one). It's still a great setup, and a lot of players get stuck like a deer in headlights, but it was never inescapable.

 

[Number45]

Was thinking of picking up for AE on pc also to compliment PS3 but I have no idea whether my MvC2 TE stick will work on pc and not quite ready to buy a second stick yet.

Depends on the PC chipset is my understanding - Intel chips have issues, nVidia are fine.

EDIT: Hmm, looks like the other way around.

The PS3 SFIV TE/SE FightStick and FightPad does not officially support the PC, but should work with PCs that do not make use of a NVIDIA® chipset.

http://www.madcatz.com/faq/default.asp?Action=Q&ID=207

 

[SamVimes]

Was thinking of picking up for AE on pc also to compliment PS3 but I have no idea whether my MvC2 TE stick will work on pc and not quite ready to buy a second stick yet.

Plug it in and see for yourself?
That's unless you plan to buy a new PC just for SSFIV AE.