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[Neki]

I wish Poongko wouldn't have thrown away his matches in winner finals.

 

[Lost Fragment]

.

I think your perspective would change a little if you started playing a different character more seriously. Just not a pure zoning character 'cause Viper blows all those characters up free lololol

 

[Satyamdas]

I think your perspective would change a little if you started playing a different character more seriously. Just not a pure zoning character 'cause Viper blows all those characters up free lololol

Viper blows up every character for free. My perspective is not strictly due to Sim's trouble with her, I just don't like how much she is rewarded for pure autopilot BS. I could play Honda and I'd still think her character design is retarded and not fit for Street Fighter. Leave that dumb shit to Marvel, plz.

 

[Neki]

Viper blows up every character for free. My perspective is not strictly due to Sim's trouble with her, I just don't like how much she is rewarded for pure autopilot BS. I could play Honda and I'd still think her character design is retarded and not fit for Street Fighter. Leave that dumb shit to Marvel, plz.

hey you, leave marvel alone. at least the U.S can win in marvel, amirite?

 

[DryEyeRelief]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bunkei-s-corner

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Viper blows up every character for free. My perspective is not strictly due to Sim's trouble with her, I just don't like how much she is rewarded for pure autopilot BS. I could play Honda and I'd still think her character design is retarded and not fit for Street Fighter. Leave that dumb shit to Marvel, plz.

I definitely agree with this, but I don't think anyone would disagree with this. She barely adheres to the same laws of sf, she definitely plays like she's in an entirely different game. Personally I don't like fighting viper. I think she's fun to watch, but that doesn't mean shit really. On Gods Garden stream Latif told Japan he hates the fei matchup, in that moment I kinda though "good, because a lot of people don't like fighting viper, suck that shit up b". He got outplayed and couldn't run through fuudo like he could most people, he simply got outplayed.


edit: don't get me wrong, I don't quite think he herp derped his way to the top, some of the stuff he did was pretty fucking amazing.

 

[Neki]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bunkei-s-corner

this guy is coughing all over my ears, nice.

 

[HiResDes]

 

[Chavelo]

People hating on Latif/Viper?

Oh, I smell the nerf cry coming...
DEALWITHIT.jpg

oh wait lol, just Saty. :3

How about that AE patch coming up, GAF? Who ya betting on getting dat nerf hammer?

 

[Satyamdas]

People hating on Latif/Viper?

Oh, I smell the nerf cry coming...
DEALWITHIT.jpg

oh wait lol, just Saty. :3

How about that AE patch coming up, GAF? Who ya betting on getting dat nerf hammer?

Sorry dude, I heard the boos when he was announced after GF. I am not alone in my dislike of Viper's dumb shit and of Latif as a douchey shit talker.

 

[MIMIC]

I like fighting Viper.....but that's because I play Fuerte. ^_^ I get to turn that shit right back on to her....with a grapple here or there

But honestly, I the unpredictability and the nontraditional nature of characters like Viper, Fuerte, Ibuki and the like. They get shitty health anyway so it's a fair trade off, IMO.

 

[Yoshichan]

Just came back from a AE session! Got to the finals and lost against a balrog player (3-0) against Yun.

What do I do against boxer ?

Any serious poster wanna help me?

 

[Rickenslacker]

How about that AE patch coming up, GAF? Who ya betting on getting dat nerf hammer?

I keep thinking it's so far away, but with UMvC3 only a few months away it seems a lot closer.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Viper blows up every character for free.

She only has a small handful of bad matchups and she has several good ones, but most of her matches are around even. She's top 10, possibly top 5, but it's a big exaggeration to say she blows up every character free.

I just don't like how much she is rewarded for pure autopilot BS.

She's not, though. As long as you know how to react to certain things. Or unless you play Sim and a handful of other characters. She can just auto-pilot without a care in a few matches.

My win rate against Viper is like 75% because Viper was my main in vanilla, and I know what she's capable of and when she's capable of it, and when things that seem ambiguous really aren't because she can only hit on one side after jumping from a certain angle or waiting a certain amount of time or something. It's true that most online Vipers are autopilot, but that's because they aren't used to people actually knowing the match since nobody uses Viper online.

I do think she should be nerfed a bit in the patch though, so we're not on different sides there. I think getting rid of her ability to cancel her j.hk and j.lk (and neutral j.hp) into burning kick is probably a good idea. That shit is stupid and it really wouldn't hurt her much anyway. But yeah, I do think you have some wildly inaccurate ideas about Viper though.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

All I can say is, Evo AE finals made me really understand what Arturo Sanchez was saying about the current state of the game.

 

[Satyamdas]

She only has a small handful of bad matchups and she has several good ones, but most of her matches are around even. She's top 10, possibly top 5, but it's a big exaggeration to say she blows up every character free.

And even her small handful of bad matchups aren't REALLY that bad because all it takes is one EX Seismo or Burn Kick to erase around 40% of a character's health. Her comeback factor is off the charts, and for that reason alone she CAN blow up anyone for free. And in matchups where she has trouble, a comeback is only one mashed out move away.

She's not, though. As long as you know how to react to certain things. Or unless you play Sim and a handful of other characters. She can just auto-pilot without a care in a few matches.

Uhhh, were you watching the same EVO I was? Did you happen to miss the few hundred mashed out EX Seismos and Burn Kicks any time Latif was being pressured? And how many led to Viper being punished crazy hard for them? Not very many at all. That fool was playing the exact same autopilot style vs. the best players in the world as he does against the scrub masses in PJS lobby, to almost the exact same success.

My win rate against Viper is like 75% because Viper was my main in vanilla, and I know what she's capable of and when she's capable of it, and when things that seem ambiguous really aren't because she can only hit on one side after jumping from a certain angle or waiting a certain amount of time or something. It's true that most online Vipers are autopilot, but that's because they aren't used to people actually knowing the match since nobody uses Viper online.

My winrate against Viper with a shitty matchup is 72%. I am fully aware of her mixups and BS, and the fact that I can beat it consistently doesn't matter. It is still dumb shit, she is still a stupid character, and her design is such that once you get her execution down you can turn your brain off and go to town against everyone, bad matchups included. Or did you not see Latif body Mike Ross at SBO quals?

I do think she should be nerfed a bit in the patch though, so we're not on different sides there. I think getting rid of her ability to cancel her j.hk and j.lk (and neutral j.hp) into burning kick is probably a good idea. That shit is stupid and it really wouldn't hurt her much anyway. But yeah, I do think you have some wildly inaccurate ideas about Viper though.

My ideas are perfectly accurate insofar as they express my feelings about the character and what she is capable of. I don't care if she isn't s-tier. I don't care if she isn't top 5. Her design is retarded and doesn't belong in Street Fighter. You tone her dumb shit down too much and she is useless. You leave it as it is and she remains a freak who is in the wrong game. I'd prefer if they just erased the bitch and left her for Marvel from now on.

 

[Rentahamster]

Art said on stream that Shangrila got better in AE. It did?

 

[Professor Beef]

The salt.

Good lord, the salt.

 

[Aedile]

Viper. . . I just don't like how much she is rewarded for pure autopilot BS. I could play Honda and I'd still think her character design is retarded and not fit for Street Fighter. Leave that dumb shit to Marvel, plz.

Yeah, it reminds me of Marvel's approach, but also seems like an extension of the Online Ken Dilemma: in any given situation where the stereotypical online Ken is in range, you can expect him either to throw or DP. If you guess wrong, you get thrown or DP'd. What keeps every fight in SF4 from coming down to a series of straight-up 50-50 guessing games? A strong zoning game first of all. Disincentivizing risks second of all: maybe the rewards are fairly minimal (hello, Fuerte) or maybe the risks really open you up to being punished (hello, most characters not named Yun). Basically, the two things that Capcom fucked up in AE.

I'm guessing that Capcom thinks that a flashy, random, 'wet and wild' approach will shift more units. Maybe they're right. I'm also guessing that Capcom doesn't care that randomness is the enemy of serious competitive play, since their interest in exploiting a scene with a massive amount of talent both in front of the camera and behind it seems to be minimal. (For that matter, Ono's "we're fucking up the game on purpose isn't that funny" approach kinda baffles me.)

 

[black_vegeta]

The salt.

Good lord, the salt.

Delicious

 

[Satyamdas]

Yeah, it reminds me of Marvel's approach, but also seems like an extension of the Online Ken Dilemma: in any given situation where the stereotypical online Ken is in range, you can expect him either to throw or DP. If you guess wrong, you get thrown or DP'd. What keeps every fight in SF4 from coming down to a series of straight-up 50-50 guessing games? A strong zoning game first of all. Disincentivizing risks second of all: maybe the rewards are fairly minimal (hello, Fuerte) or maybe the risks really open you up to being punished (hello, most characters not named Yun). Basically, the two things that Capcom fucked up in AE.

Street Fighter will always devolve to a series of 50-50 guessing games, it's just the nature of the beast. To me that in itself isn't the issue, it's that certain characters 50-50s are just obscenely good and safe, and rewarded with insane amounts of damage, while other characters have no effective counter to the 50-50s, or do too little damage as a punish to disincentivize spamming moves on them all day.

Ultimately there will always be an imbalance in the game because of characters having unique moves and different damage and health, but I don't think that can be avoided and I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Those imbalances were present in certain matchups in Super, but overall it was a very well balanced game. And while a lot of the nerfs and changes in AE were needed, I think they just went way too far in some cases. And by introducing a few god tier characters those nerfs stand out even more and make the game feel much worse balance-wise.

I'm guessing that Capcom thinks that a flashy, random, 'wet and wild' approach will shift more units. Maybe they're right. I'm also guessing that Capcom doesn't care that randomness is the enemy of serious competitive play, since their interest in exploiting a scene with a massive amount of talent both in front of the camera and behind it seems to be minimal. (For that matter, Ono's "we're fucking up the game on purpose isn't that funny" approach kinda baffles me.)

Capcom's stance on this is definitely puzzling. I mean they clearly are involved and care about the goodwill of the scene, and I just can't accept the cynical view that they purposefully release unbalanced games in order to drive sales of their other games, or so that they can sell us balance patches down the line. I think it is far more likely that they are just humans making games, and as such there will always be an element of imperfection and imbalance present. Ono's trolling is probably the worst method they could use for communicating with the player base, but I really think they ultimately want to do right and make the most balanced game they can.

 

[Dascu]

any list of PC players?

There's a GAF Steam group for the game: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ssf4aegaf

 

[kiryogi]

The name is official! AE2k12!

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/08/01/sfiv_ae_2012/

 

[Red Liquorice]

So this update will just be a rebalance patch? Are they finally letting SF4 go to bed?

 

[Corky]

Ok Focus really made me shit hype for evo. I really hope to see some underdogs make it far, I'm not anti-daigo by any stretch of the imagination that dude deserves every win he gets but come on now just imagine someone else getting the 1st spot.

Got my wish.

<3<3<3<3

 

[SamVimes]

Latif made it to Grand Finals in EVO while constantly spamming EX Seismos every time he was under pressure, spamming Burn Kicks, and spamming her HP Thunder knuckle. Anyone who has seen him play before knows that is how he has always played. And basically all he did was prove to me that the herp derp of a character can carry you a looooooooooooong way. Why did Fuudo win? Because he played fucking BRILLIANTLY. Super smart positioning and great defense. Isn't it interesting that a player can just autopilot a bunch of dumb shit with Viper and go far, but in order to beat that Viper a player must play like a goddamn genius? I don't give a fuck about her execution, that shit can be learned by anyone who puts in the time. She is still an autopilot derpfest of stupidity and Capcom fucked up by including her stupid ass in SF4. That ninja/clown hybrid concept character that didn't make the cut should have been in instead of her.

How to nerf Viper? Easy. Damage and stun need to be reduced, big time. Burn Kicks need to be less safe. Also, being able to do a jump in attack and then do a crossup Burn Kick instead of land is just absolutely retarded. Get rid of that dumb shit, plz. Of course, none of this will happen and I bet she is untouched in the balance patch except for maybe an U1 damage nerf.

.

 

[kitzkozan]

Latif made it to Grand Finals in EVO while constantly spamming EX Seismos every time he was under pressure, spamming Burn Kicks, and spamming her HP Thunder knuckle. Anyone who has seen him play before knows that is how he has always played. And basically all he did was prove to me that the herp derp of a character can carry you a looooooooooooong way. Why did Fuudo win? Because he played fucking BRILLIANTLY. Super smart positioning and great defense. Isn't it interesting that a player can just autopilot a bunch of dumb shit with Viper and go far, but in order to beat that Viper a player must play like a goddamn genius? I don't give a fuck about her execution, that shit can be learned by anyone who puts in the time. She is still an autopilot derpfest of stupidity and Capcom fucked up by including her stupid ass in SF4. That ninja/clown hybrid concept character that didn't make the cut should have been in instead of her.

How to nerf Viper? Easy. Damage and stun need to be reduced, big time. Burn Kicks need to be less safe. Also, being able to do a jump in attack and then do a crossup Burn Kick instead of land is just absolutely retarded. Get rid of that dumb shit, plz. Of course, none of this will happen and I bet she is untouched in the balance patch except for maybe an U1 damage nerf.

I find it hilarious that you single out Latif out of all Viper players. The character will not go anywhere since she fill a niche of being a high execution character who also has a super jump and can sjc.

I would say the real reason why Fuudo won is that he's one of the best VF player ever. Most know about the deep technical aspect of that game and the yomi required to win at the highest level. So it's not surprising to see that he was able to outsmart and ultimately outplay both Latif and Poongko (or everyone else) . I know he defeated Daigo in a Ryu mirror match back in SFIV vanilla.

 

[wario]

latif had a terrible redemption suite after grand finals.


lost to fuudo in a rematch during the 5-on-5 usa vs japan team match. (fuudo OCV'd for the japan win)

had a FT4 runback with fuudo where he won the first three then lost the next four.

then lost to gamerbee in 3 sets where he took one round total.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Latif made it to Grand Finals in EVO while constantly spamming EX Seismos every time he was under pressure, spamming Burn Kicks, and spamming her HP Thunder knuckle. Anyone who has seen him play before knows that is how he has always played. And basically all he did was prove to me that the herp derp of a character can carry you a looooooooooooong way. Why did Fuudo win? Because he played fucking BRILLIANTLY. Super smart positioning and great defense. Isn't it interesting that a player can just autopilot a bunch of dumb shit with Viper and go far, but in order to beat that Viper a player must play like a goddamn genius? I don't give a fuck about her execution, that shit can be learned by anyone who puts in the time. She is still an autopilot derpfest of stupidity and Capcom fucked up by including her stupid ass in SF4. That ninja/clown hybrid concept character that didn't make the cut should have been in instead of her.

How to nerf Viper? Easy. Damage and stun need to be reduced, big time. Burn Kicks need to be less safe. Also, being able to do a jump in attack and then do a crossup Burn Kick instead of land is just absolutely retarded. Get rid of that dumb shit, plz. Of course, none of this will happen and I bet she is untouched in the balance patch except for maybe an U1 damage nerf.

I did say Viper shouldn't be nerfed. But after reading this, I changed my mind.


Even Seth Killian was getting frustrated with how Latif was using ex seismos.

 

[USD]

So EVO is over, but August will be a pretty busy month for Street Fighter. This weekend, August 6, is the East Coast SBO qualifier at Next Level in New York. It will consist of two singles tournaments to determine the SBO slots. Team Sp00ky is supposed to be streaming it, though right after EVO, who knows.

The next weekend, August 13, is the Southwest SBO qualifier at Arcade UFO in Texas. That one is a team tourney however, like the West Coast qualifier. Arcade UFO itself is streaming that. That same weekend is Super Versus Battle 20XI, August 12-14. It has the same line-up of games as EVO (AE, MvC3, BBCSII, Tekken 6, MK) as well as Third Strike. No idea about a stream.

The week after that, August 20, is GODSGARDEN #4. Fan voting for the 11 invite slots is still going on. Momochi clinched a spot by winning the online Niconico Stream Battle tournament. As with the other GODSGARDEN tournaments, the last four slots to fill out the 16-player bracket are decided by a preliminary tournament.

Finally, August 27-28 is GVN Summer Jam 5 in Philadelphia. Like all the other GVN tourneys (NEC, Winter Brawl), expect a huge list of games. AE, MvC3, MK, BBCSII, Tekken 6, AH3, MBAA, GGXX, 3S, SCIV, plus plenty of side tournaments. Another Team Sp00ky broadcast.

 

[MarshMellow96]

So did a Viper player do well or something?

 

[Relix]

I am back! New ISP! Recharged coconuts FTW!

 

[sixteen-bit]

The name is official! AE2k12!

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/08/01/sfiv_ae_2012/

I'll wait for Tougeki edition

 

[mr. puppy]

Could somebody maybe help me understand why Poongko's Seth kept winning? I can't really figure it out. I suck at analyzing high level SFIV

 

[Crisis]

So did a Viper player do well or something?

Wolfkrone and Latif brought the pain with Viper.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Then they ritually sacrificed Saty's dog on stage.

Spoiler

Still love you Saty

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm getting on the plane now, but I have a present for Saty when I get home

 

[Kimosabae]

Latif made it to Grand Finals in EVO while constantly spamming EX Seismos every time he was under pressure, spamming Burn Kicks, and spamming her HP Thunder knuckle. Anyone who has seen him play before knows that is how he has always played. And basically all he did was prove to me that the herp derp of a character can carry you a looooooooooooong way. Why did Fuudo win? Because he played fucking BRILLIANTLY. Super smart positioning and great defense. Isn't it interesting that a player can just autopilot a bunch of dumb shit with Viper and go far, but in order to beat that Viper a player must play like a goddamn genius? I don't give a fuck about her execution, that shit can be learned by anyone who puts in the time. She is still an autopilot derpfest of stupidity and Capcom fucked up by including her stupid ass in SF4. That ninja/clown hybrid concept character that didn't make the cut should have been in instead of her.

How to nerf Viper? Easy. Damage and stun need to be reduced, big time. Burn Kicks need to be less safe. Also, being able to do a jump in attack and then do a crossup Burn Kick instead of land is just absolutely retarded. Get rid of that dumb shit, plz. Of course, none of this will happen and I bet she is untouched in the balance patch except for maybe an U1 damage nerf.

I'm fucking dying over here!

 

[Relix]

Saty salty

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm getting on the plane now, but I have a present for Saty when I get home

How did you do in AE?

 

[the_log_ride]

Saty salty

Saltyamdas?

I'll be salty with you, brother. 'Cuz there ain't know way they can patch Sim up for ver.2012

 

[Satyamdas]

Nah I'm past being salty about Viper. I was salty during Vanilla. In the 5 stages of grief there is Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and finally Acceptance. I'm firmly in the Acceptance stage, and have been since early on in Super. And beyond that it's just mild bemusement at the decision to include a character like that in Street Fighter. I'm not serious about erasing her from the game, and my language is exaggerated purposefully to fit my character as the crotchety old man that hates everything. It's a fact that she can autopilot to victory, and her damage and stun is ridiculous, but that is true of a lot of characters. I find her stupid and annoying to fight, but a lot of people feel that way about Dhalsim. I don't begrudge them their opinion.

If anything, my beef is with Latif for being a shit talking douchebag on top of being carried by a herp derp character. Same reason I like to see FlashMetroid lose. Wolfkrone plays Viper and I was rooting for that kid like crazy against Fuudo and Kindevu.

 

[Spiderjericho]

Is there going to be a DVD or are we going to have to wait for things to pop up on youtube channels?

I'd like to see the MVC3 East vs West and the After hour action and some of the Friday action.

Latif was definitely a legend killer. He beat Daigo, Tokido, Justin Wong and Poongko on his way to the finals. And most would say Justin Wong has had plenty of experience playing Vipers (Marn, Flash, Wolfkrone, etc). Though Latif and Flash are GG players, so that might be why they like the character and can excel. I will say there is some b.s. with the character, but as Lost said, you just have to get familiar with the matchup.

It's the same with IV Sagat or Rufus, Super Abel, Honda, etc or AE's Twin Magic.

Next year is probably the last IV action at Evo.

 

[BotoxAgent]

I didn't know Aladdin was such a shit talkin douche. Shit.

 

[Triple Oceans]

Are the Latif vs. Fuudo vids up yet?

 

[SamVimes]

It's the same with IV Sagat or Rufus, Super Abel, Honda, etc or AE's Twin Magic.

Yeah, and they toned down Abel's damage (rightfully) and he wasn't even safe like Viper.

Next year is probably the last IV action at Evo.

I really don't think so.

 

[Satyamdas]

Is there going to be a DVD or are we going to have to wait for things to pop up on youtube channels?

I'd like to see the MVC3 East vs West and the After hour action and some of the Friday action.

Latif was definitely a legend killer. He beat Daigo, Tokido, Justin Wong and Poongko on his way to the finals. And most would say Justin Wong has had plenty of experience playing Vipers (Marn, Flash, Wolfkrone, etc). Though Latif and Flash are GG players, so that might be why they like the character and can excel. I will say there is some b.s. with the character, but as Lost said, you just have to get familiar with the matchup.

It's the same with IV Sagat or Rufus, Super Abel, Honda, etc or AE's Twin Magic.

Next year is probably the last IV action at Evo.

Why would you say that? The game is going to go from biggest draw at EVO to just dropping off the map altogether? Do you think SF5 is going to come out by 2013?

 

[BotoxAgent]

Wouldn't SF vs Tekken be the big draw by then?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Wouldn't SF vs Tekken be the big draw by then?

If they do 5 games again then they'll probably just drop Blazblue or Tekken to accommodate the new stuff (SC5 and SFxT).

 

[def sim]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see SFV announced for 2013. Capcom has been riding their somewhat successful fighting game sales and probably wants one out at least every year.

AE won't drop off after EVO 2012 though. That wouldn't make sense.