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[Fury Sense]

Wait for Pro IMO. Even if the Pro doesn't come out with a competitive price, it will be a benchmark for all competitors. One that they are largely ignoring now that the Surface RT is the only MS product. Even its spec&date announcement will have an affect the market.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Wait for Pro IMO. Even if the Pro doesn't come out with a competitive price, it will be a benchmark for all competitors. One that they are largely ignoring now that the Surface RT is the only MS product. Even its spec&date announcement will have an affect the market.

You think I should still wait for the Pro even if I need it for school and some browsing? And I thought the specs were out? Would like some more input on this.

 

[JaggedSac]

Patch probably didn't speed up anything, but here is what's included (not including security updates)

Link

Update to address Favorites not being displayed in IE10 (Knowledge Base Article ID: 2772501)

Note: This issue occurs because the Internet Explorer property schema is cleared incorrectly.

Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 cumulative update: November 2012 (Article ID 2770917)

Note: This cumulative update includes the following performance and reliability improvements:

*Enable enterprise customers to customize the default lock screen.
*Improves the performance when you wake the computer and when the computer is asleep, in order to improve battery life
*Resolves an issue that may prevent Windows Store Apps from being installed fully
*Other software updates and performance improvements

An update for Microsoft files that contain a digital signature in Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 (Article ID 2769165)

Note: The digital signature on files that are produced and signed by Microsoft expires prematurely on a computer that is running Windows and Windows Server 2012.

Fix to enable Windows Recovery Environment (WinRE) by using the out-of-the-box (OOBE) wizard in Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012 (Article ID 2769034)

Note: This issue occurs because of a race condition in the Boot Configuration Data (BCD) store.

In addition to these four, there were four additional security-centric updates that I also got, for a total of eight udates today.

Doesn't mention the firmware update. But it does mention general performance improvements in one of them so that is good.

 

[eastmen]

You think I should still wait for the Pro even if I need it for school and some browsing? And I thought the specs were out? Would like some more input on this.

the specs are subject to change. They have only said a third gen intel i5 but who knows what that actually is. Intel talked a lot about a new 10w ivy bridge so that is a possibility. Mabye even a speed increase on the 17w ivy bridges . They have been making them for quite awhile now so a respin could benfit the surface.

haswel is also a possibility though unlikely. But intel might want to use the surface to make a really big splash. Arm is eating their lunch after all and haswel is supposed to be a 10% bump in performance while greatly reducing idle power .


MS can still bump up the ram , right now they are saying 4 gigs but it could come in 6 or 8 gigs. Or ms might let you increase the ram amount when bought online like other pcs .

They also talked about 64 and 128 gig models but the price of ssd's have dropped so much since july that consumers can buy 256 gig top of the line drives for under $150. So we could see that.


Also for during school you might find the pen input on the pro to be much better at taking notes than any keyboard .

MS has also stated they are trying to get the weight down on the surface. So that be interesting to see also .


We should find out more in December i'd think and if not then at ces which is early January. But if you need something now , I certainly like the surface rt i'm trying out for work.



Oh and I would expect the pro to start around $800 or so.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

What would be the resale value of an RT in case I change my mind?
I'm surprised they'd do so many changes just 2 months before release, but I really no nothing about laptops.

 

[border]

Oh and I would expect the pro to start around $800 or so.

After the sticker shock on the SurfaceRT, I can't believe some people are still trying to lowball the price estimate on the Pro model.

 

[eastmen]

What would be the resale value of an RT in case I change my mind?
I'm surprised they'd do so many changes just 2 months before release, but I really no nothing about laptops.

They haven't really set in stone much. Adding more ram isn't labor intensive they just sodder a few more chips on the board . Adding in a bigger ssd is just swapping out a part. They only said 3rd gen intel ivy bridge chip. So we don't know the actual model.


I'd also hazard a guess that they may not even be in production yet. They said 90 days from windows 8 launch which was the end of October so they still have 2 months left . Production is most likely just starting now and that's if they plan on sticking to the 90 days. They can come out in January and say hey this is the surface pro , its shipping in Feb or march.

Who knows what will happen.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

After the sticker shock on the SurfaceRT, I can't believe some people are still trying to lowball the price estimate on the Pro model.

Yeah, but don't you think they might rethink their strategy? But that has to consist of a RT price drop, which won't happen.

 

[eastmen]

After the sticker shock on the SurfaceRT, I can't believe some people are still trying to lowball the price estimate on the Pro model.

why what do you think it will be at ?


I figure its going to be about $800 for the 64 gig .


I have 1k on the side for it as that's what I expect the model I want to cost. Which will have the largest ssd avalible and if it has any of the configurable options i'd choose the best avalible

 

[railGUN]

why what do you think it will be at ?


I figure its going to be about $800 for the 64 gig .


I have 1k on the side for it as that's what I expect the model I want to cost. Which will have the largest ssd avalible and if it has any of the configurable options i'd choose the best avalible

Isn't the 64 gig Surface RT $699? You think the entry Pro will only be $100 more?

 

[Souless_PJ]

Pro is going to be 1k with the keyboard extra I reckon.

 

[eastmen]

Isn't the 64 gig Surface RT $699? You think the entry Pro will only be $100 more?

When you look at the surface rt its priced in line with the atom and other rt tablets. Roughly $500-$600 (64 gig is $600)

The asus vivo tab rt is $550 for a tegra 3 with 2 gigs of ram and 32gigs of space. MS pricing the rt any less than the $500 its at would kill any sales the vivo tab would get.

Then look at the Iconia w700 its 11.6inch 64 gig with a 1.8 i3 and 64 gig ssd and is sub $800 price


I would think that's exactly where the surface will come in. The surface has a smaller screen but the faster chip. I expect that's where the surface will start.

 

[Xplatformer]

You think I should still wait for the Pro even if I need it for school and some browsing? And I thought the specs were out? Would like some more input on this.

What are your expectations for a tablet? Are you looking to run desktop applications other than Office on it? Are you looking to play regular PC games on it?

If those two things aren't important to you and the Surface RT does what you want it to, why not just get the RT?

There will always be something bigger and better. It's technology. In less than a year your hardware will be obsolete.

But...does the hardware you purchase give you the value you expect from it.



Browsing the internet, running TABLET apps, decent screen for video watching and book reading, run full Office app with bluetooth keyboard and mouse, good user interface, quality hardware construction.

Surface RT meets my expectation. It may not meet yours but only you would know what those expectations are.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

What are your expectations for a tablet? Are you looking to run desktop applications other than Office on it? Are you looking to play regular PC games on it?

If those two things aren't important to you and the Surface RT does what you want it to, why not just get the RT?

There will always be something bigger and better. It's technology. In less than a year your hardware will be obsolete.

But...does the hardware you purchase give you the value you expect from it.



Browsing the internet, running TABLET apps, decent screen for video watching and book reading, run full Office app with bluetooth keyboard and mouse, good user interface, quality hardware construction.

Surface RT meets my expectation. It may not meet yours but only you would know what those expectations are.

Well, I already said, I'm going to get it for typing documents, streaming some vids and browse the web. No PC gaming.

 

[commish]

I'm probably going to transition to the Pro model in a year or so, when the 2nd gen models come out. I'm more than happy to ride the RT for the next year.

 

[maeh2k]

Well, I already said, I'm going to get it for typing documents, streaming some vids and browse the web. No PC gaming.

As a pure tablet (aka iPad competitor) the RT might be better and I'm pretty sure the Pro reviews won't be overly positive. It's bigger, heavier, has active cooling, shorter battery life, no connected standy. These things will be criticized a lot. Won't come with Office, either. Price may be higher than some people want it to be, since products like the Ativ Smart PC Pro and the Sony Vaio Duo are around 1100$ to 1200$.
So in your use case the RT (or one of the Atom devices) may be better.

However, the one thing the Core i tablets have going for them is that they are pretty powerful and thus future-proof. ARM CPUs are still evolving rapidly. By now the first iPad is basically hopelessly outdated and a lot of people who bought it have since moved on to a newer model. A Core i device is basically a regular PC. The kind of PC people use for 5+ years (unless it breaks before then) and which can probably be easily upgraded to future versions of Windows. (both my 5-year-old notebook and my 8-year-old PC can still run Windows 8)

 

[Anton Sugar]

What's a "connected standy"?

 

[Nero3000]

What's a "connected standy"?

Connected standby is a low power mode, where the Surface is in standby but is still connected to a wireless network, to pull things like new emails, live tile information.

Developers can hook into this to pull new data. The OS manages this in a battery friendly way.

EDIT: Other things connected standby is designed for, while the PC is in sleep mode:

Playing music
Downloading a file from or uploading it to a website
Keeping live tiles alive with fresh content
Printing
Receiving a VoIP call
Receiving an instant message
Receiving an email
Sharing content (like uploading photos to Facebook)
Synchronizing content with a tethered device (like syncing photos)

There was a blog post about this: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/07/improving-power-efficiency-for-applications.aspx

 

[Totakeke]

Connected Standby. Basically for the device to still receive notifications like emails even though it's in sleep mode. Common for tablets and phones, not for laptops.

http://blog.jerrynixon.com/2012/04/windows-8-connected-standby.html



I think a tablet+desktop scenario with RDP is still the best for my use cases rather than a laptop-esque trying to cover both ends. So a lower weight or more portable device with good enough screen estate is still my preference. I'd definitely upgrade if the next version has pen support. ARM could be also nice but not as important. Oh yeah, 3G/4G would be really nice.

 

[MThanded]

why what do you think it will be at ?


I figure its going to be about $800 for the 64 gig .


I have 1k on the side for it as that's what I expect the model I want to cost. Which will have the largest ssd avalible and if it has any of the configurable options i'd choose the best avalible

For the pro?

 

[Nero3000]

For the Pro:

800 - 64gb without a cover
900 - 64gb with a touch cover
1000 - 128gb with a touch cover

Remember the license for Windows 8 is cheaper than RT due to the lack of Office.

Component price increase would only be CPU+Chipset, Display, pen digitiser, battery.

Plus increased savings just by having the process run on the RT version.

 

[border]

why what do you think it will be at ?

Surface Pro will probably $1000, with keyboard included.

Microsoft has stressed that pricing will be in line with ultrabooks. I suspect that if they price-matched the iPad for the RT model, they will price-match the Macbook Air for the Pro model.

 

[Stuggernaut]

I am sooooo close to pulling the trigger on one of these. I swear if a Black Friday sale happens I am doing it!

My Transformer (1st gen) is quite beat up and for strictly tablet use, this just looks like such a nice device.

Primary uses for me...

• Watching Hulu & Netflix
• Watching MP4 movies from my ripped DVDs
• Surfing the net
• Playing app style games and facebook level games
• social media
• taking notes
• reading
• Pistening to podcasts on the bus

Does this sound like I am RT ready? Don't think I need to wait for Pro.

 

[derder]

I think they Pro would have to start at $900 to be competitive with the other OEMs.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Curious now that people have had this for a few weeks. What is everyone's thoughts on the touch cover? And the type one?

 

[Stuggernaut]

Curious now that people have had this for a few weeks. What is everyone's thoughts on the touch cover? And the type one?

I too would love to know this!!

How are both for typing, and using when it is folded over, around back etc.?

 

[Gareth Bale]

I had the touch cover, but I decided to buy the type cover as I started using Surface for report writing. I love how easy it is to save stuff to Skydrive and pick up right where I left of on my desktop at home, but that's another story. Anyway, my lack of accuracy/patience with the type cover meant that it wasn't suitable for serious word processing, at least not for me. I probably would have improved to a decent level, but the type cover is a lot better anyway and still incredibly thin. The touchpad is better on it as well, which is pretty important if your using Office a lot. I said it before, but I think Microsoft should have included the type cover as standard considering the price difference between the two. The touch cover is a nice gimmick, and I'm sure future iterations will improve on it's initial promise, but when it's only positive is the reduced thickness I really don't see the point. Both fit nicely into my bag when folded though, and it's pretty much the smallest/lightest thing in there with all the books and notepads I carry around.

So yeah, I'd recommend the type cover to anyone that's planning on using Office.

edit: as JaggedSac said below, I also had a few issues with the touch cover keys. A brain thing more than a mechanical issue, but when you don't have a solid physical separation between keys (rather a gap between two bumps), I found it hard to press the right key accurately on the far left of the keyboard without looking. I'm sure I would have improved eventually, but you're just not going to get the same speed and accuracy with it. There was an article posted here comparing the touch to the type in terms of WPM (the Verge?). I'd recommend people read it if they want some more professional impressions.

 

[JaggedSac]

Touch cover works great. Only issue I have, and am getting better with it, is the left shift key. Just something wonky with my brain about not having the shift key depressed and holding it while touching another key. My typing speed is pretty much the same as using a regular keyboard, minus the fact that I make a couple more mistakes than normal. I have used it lying in bed and in my lap, although the device feels somewhat precarious unless you are pretty level.

When it is around back, you can feel the slight bumps of the keys, but it is no big deal. Very thin so it is just like having a normal tablet cover on the thing.

One cool thing about the black touch cover is that the back of it is a felt-like material and you can use it to wipe down the device. Quite handy I think, plop the keyboard off, wipe the screen, plop it back on.

EDIT: One other thing to note is that I have only used it for maybe at most 2 hours at a time. After that time, hitting a surface that had no give became noticeable.

 

[dejay]

My main issue with the touch cover is the space bar. I'm going to keep practising before I place judgement though - every time I use it I get more accurate.

One cool thing about the black touch cover is that the back of it is a felt-like material and you can use it to wipe down the device. Quite handy I think, plop the keyboard off, wipe the screen, plop it back on.

This is genius. I just tried it - works a treat. I wouldn't do this all the time as it could lead to some scratching after a while, but it's great in a pinch.

 

[KamenSenshi]

Had it since launch, no issues with the touch cover. I'm as fast with it as with a regular keyboard and its been fine other than the adjustment of the space bar extending for about the depth of two space bars.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Been wanting to get the touch cover for aesthetics, but if really affects typing documents then I'll just get the type cover.

 

[Xplatformer]

I guess I fall in with the majority of people that purchased the Surface RT. There is no way I'm paying for a keyboard (cover or not) when I've already got a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.


75% of my usage will be as a tablet.

The rest, I'll have the keyboard and mouse at work or at home on my desk/table.

 

[Totakeke]

Heh, if you really want to. The type cover can be nearly invisible most of the time until you need it for like a post on Neogaf which is amazingly flexible. Also I think carrying around the tablet with the cover on it makes it far more comfortable to hold than without.

 

[Mairu]

I am sooooo close to pulling the trigger on one of these. I swear if a Black Friday sale happens I am doing it!

My Transformer (1st gen) is quite beat up and for strictly tablet use, this just looks like such a nice device.

Primary uses for me...

• Watching Hulu & Netflix
• Watching MP4 movies from my ripped DVDs
• Surfing the net
• Playing app style games and facebook level games
• social media
• taking notes
• reading
• Pistening to podcasts on the bus

Does this sound like I am RT ready? Don't think I need to wait for Pro.

You'd be fine for everything except for app style games - Don't expect anything similar to what you're getting on Android/iOS unless the developers have started to actually make games run at an acceptable rate - As an example, unless it's been patched, Jetpack Joyride runs like garbage. The pinball game that MS released also runs pretty poorly (but maybe they've updated these in the past 2 weeks since I returned mine)

I think with the rush to get things on Win8 in general it's going to be awhile before they start actually optimizing stuff specifically for WinRT

 

[Totakeke]

Just depends on the games, most games perform smoothly but the ones at launch definitely tend to lack polish. Android doesn't have many tablet-optimized games either. I guess what I have now is Robotek, Rocket Riot 3D, Cut The Rope, Angry Birds Star Wars, Radiant Defense, Wordament and these work more than fine.

Either way no one should really get Android or RT for heavy tablet gaming anyway.

 

[Stuggernaut]

Just depends on the games, most games perform smoothly but the ones at launch definitely tend to lack polish. Android doesn't have many tablet-optimized games either. I guess what I have now is Robotek, Rocket Riot 3D, Cut The Rope, Angry Birds Star Wars, Radiant Defense, Wordament and these work more than fine.

Either way no one should really get Android or RT for heavy tablet gaming anyway.

I will assume you mean Ipad for games. I can't bring myself to get an Ipad, which is why I have an Android tablet now. Which works wonderfully.

I will keep following this thread, and apps that come out. I have a few weeks to decide either way.

 

[Totakeke]

Yeah.

There are two 3D racing games (isn't really up my alley) right now and they both work on the Surface and with a plugged in Xbox controller.

Hydro Thunder Hurricane (http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/app/324b3127-a03c-4ec4-bb61-6b4d5b70676a)
Riptide GP (http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/app/db032d86-b85a-46d9-a67c-7a625f0cedd3)

Tried the first one that has a trial, the performance seems quite smooth, but then I plugged in my Xbox controller, which works immediately, then found out that the analog stick right movement on my controller is borked. Meh.

 

[Alx]

I'm warming up to the idea of buying a Surface, after thinking about how my main laptop is more annoying to move around and get hot fast... the only thing that just surprised me and makes me hesitate now is that according to the specs there is no physical network connector. Is there no way to plug an internet cable to the device ? Wifi is great and all, but when you're in a meeting outside it may help a lot to have a wired connection (when the wifi isn't stable, or they can't give you its password)

 

[Hana-Bi]

Finally tried using my Surface for video playback from my SD.

Video app didn't show anything under "my videos" but I could search for the files and they worked just fine on the Surface. Tried using the same trick of changing the folder names on my SD to match the name of the app (here in Germany "Video" instead of "Videos", or "Fotos" instead of "Bilder") and it worked, all files are now under "my videos".

 

[Totakeke]

I'm warming up to the idea of buying a Surface, after thinking about how my main laptop is more annoying to move around and get hot fast... the only thing that just surprised me and makes me hesitate now is that according to the specs there is no physical network connector. Is there no way to plug an internet cable to the device ? Wifi is great and all, but when you're in a meeting outside it may help a lot to have a wired connection (when the wifi isn't stable, or they can't give you its password)

You'd have to find a usb to lan dongle that works.

 

[Alx]

You'd have to find a usb to lan dongle that works.

Thanks, I wasn't sure such things existed, and haven't taken the time to research it yet. it's still slightly annoying, having to carry all these adapters around (ethernet, vga,...), but at least it's no deal breaker.
I'm on my way to one of the rare places in Paris that allow to try the device. I can't say MS made it easy for the consumer to want it. :/

 

[kazinova]

Anyone have issues formatting a microSD card? Mine won't work for some reason.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Anyone have issues formatting a microSD card? Mine won't work for some reason.

Is that the one from your Focus? I thought I remember reading that once you use a microSD in a Focus it is borked if you ever try to use it on something else.

 

[Green Embers]

Is that the one from your Focus? I thought I remember reading that once you use a microSD in a Focus it is borked if you ever try to use it on something else.

Yup, my post from last page.

ah, that is a known issue with the focus. It does some sort of secure pairing with the SD card making it worthless for other devices.

I remember there was some odd work around with an older Nokia phone, I think. I'd have to google for the details.

here we go, found something:
http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Windows-Phone-7-Samsung-Focus-microSD-card-issue-FAQ

It's the N8 that can do it.

 

[MCD]

Any Bluetooth speaker recommendation? Planning to chill in my room and around the house once I buy a Surface RT later this week.

Thinking of getting something from Creative because I am very satisfied with the Creative Gigaworks T20 but I am open for any suggestion.

I don't need any phone docking. Just a regular Bluetooth speaker with an aux jack. Powered is better.

And is there a UK plug 3 pin AC adapter plug on sale for this? Hate the silly American plug.

 

[eastmen]

the jbl flip is really nice. iy sounds as good as the larger jambox and costs 100 usd

Any Bluetooth speaker recommendation? Planning to chill in my room and around the house once I buy a Surface RT later this week.

Thinking of getting something from Creative because I am very satisfied with the Creative Gigaworks T20 but I am open for any suggestion.

I don't need any phone docking. Just a regular Bluetooth speaker with an aux jack. Powered is better.

And is there a UK plug 3 pin AC adapter plug on sale for this? Hate the silly American plug.

 

[MCD]

That looks awesome. Can it recharge and play at the same time?

Edit: from looking at the reviews online, I guess the answer is a yes.

 

[dLMN8R]

Love it.

Sitting on a plane, using my Surface RT with a type cover. Essentially a full laptop for everything that I'd possibly want to do in this scenario. Plugged in a flash drive to play videos over it. Play Angry Birds at the same time as watching a video docked to the side.

Heck, I can even charge my phone if I wanted to.


By the time I get off this 4-5 hour flight, my battery will be less than half gone.

 

[teh_pwn]

Yeah, plane flights are one of the biggest reasons why my next laptop will be a surface or something similar. Though I'm holding out for x86. If you all use Haswell then I would think the battery life would be fantastic.

 

[Totakeke]

The angle with the stand doesn't look comfortable for in-flight usage. I wonder what they optimized the angle for. Places like starbucks typically have low tables too.