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[dLMN8R]

Do you have statistics as to how the S7, or the Yoga are being used? No, but Microsoft does.

Just an anecdote of course, but my wife uses touch more than mouse on her S7. It's perfectly natural for her to lift her hand a couple inches from the keyboard to touch the screen to scroll web pages vs. indirectly scrolling with a mouse or the touchpad. A lot more comfortable than moving the same distance to the trackpad. Same thing with tapping links and such. But she loves that the trackpad is there when she's doing something that needs a bit more precision, like in Publisher or somesuch.

Most reviewers of touchscreen laptops seem to be surprised at how much they start using touch as an addition to mouse/trackpad and keyboard. It's obviously not a replacement, but a nice augment.

Also, this: http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/30/3710900/gorilla-arm-touchscreen-laptop-windows-8-apple (Bonus perk: that article references "toaster" and "refrigerator")

 

[f0lken]

As a sidenote, my sister who also happen to have an Acer S7 uses touch for pretty much everything too

 

[ralexand]

0.5 lbs is a lot of weight plus the iPad is heavy to begin with anyways. After using the mini I could never go back to a regular iPad.

Like dLMN8R said, no screen size is optimal for everyone. I would slit my wrist if I had to use that tiny screen on the mini to do most of my casual web browsing. I'm old though with crappy vision.

 

[DukeTogo1300]

Pirillo actually seems pleased with the Pro.

 

[eastmen]

You're definitely right...all for the low low price of $1200-$1600 dollars.

haswell can be the chip that does it. It will slot in at the same price as the current ivybridge ulv chips but should offer better power management.

Broadwell will certainly be that chip. It will have not only haswell's improvements but a brand new gpu design along with a micron drop. That isn't till late 2014 however.

 

[BrownChickenBrownCow]

Just an anecdote of course, but my wife uses touch more than mouse on her S7. It's perfectly natural for her to lift her hand a couple inches from the keyboard to touch the screen to scroll web pages vs. indirectly scrolling with a mouse or the touchpad. A lot more comfortable than moving the same distance to the trackpad. Same thing with tapping links and such. But she loves that the trackpad is there when she's doing something that needs a bit more precision, like in Publisher or somesuch.

Most reviewers of touchscreen laptops seem to be surprised at how much they start using touch as an addition to mouse/trackpad and keyboard. It's obviously not a replacement, but a nice augment.

Also, this: http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/30/3710900/gorilla-arm-touchscreen-laptop-windows-8-apple (Bonus perk: that article references "toaster" and "refrigerator")

DING DING DING.

The augment that Windows 8 and Surface allow is not available on other tablets. Not because the consumer didn't want it, but because the creator didn't want it.

What stops me from having something like this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Microso...p?id=1218244146463&skuId=1261563&st=microsoft arc touch&cp=1&lp=1
when I need to do something that requires it or that will make the task faster?
Nothing.

What stops iOS and Android? Support and Drivers.
So your argument that the a tablet is broken when it requires something beyond touch to use it is wrong. I can see how you would think that with what is out there right now, but I suppose the market will tell in the coming years.

 

[stktt]

I find it funny that 2lbs is considered a brick. Then again, I've never had any issues with holding my 900, which was also considered thick and heavy at its release.

 

[Fury Sense]

Another day of experience with this thing. Used it in a project meeting today too.

2 lbs is definitely not a concern. Just 2x

If you're in a position where you need to hold it up, you probably have a lap/legs/something to help you out.

Powerpoint with touch control is pretty nice. I'm getting better at the touchpad keyboard, so excel has been fine as well. Also, IDK if other systems/maps do this, but Bing Maps on Surface Pro was loading zoom levels incredibly fast. It was pretty fun to just zoom around and shit (no I never had an iPad and my smartphone is shit). I watched a 45 minute video on it with messaging in snap view. Not a bad experience, but then, RT can do that as well. Super useful to have visual studio on this thing, amazingly easy

 

[coldfoot]

coldfoot, you're out of your league. How can you scream about talking about NOW with the Surface when the iphone example you gave showed how Apple being slightly ahead of the curve in terms of tech paid off for them. MS will be on their 3rd gen. version of their convergence product when Haswell is released later this year and Apple/Google will be debating if they should get in on the action or plotting the best way to do so. It doesn't take a genius to know that convergent products that adapt to your usage scenario is where things are heading. Who in their right mind would want to carry a phone, a tablet and a laptop if they can get a device that has great battery life, is powerful, can play many of the high performance pc games, all of the productivity software you can throw at it and is as light as a tablet. A device that you can use like a tablet on the go and get to work, plug it into a large monitor and keyboard gives you a full blown workstation that would put any workstation a couple years old to shame performance wise. This isn't a pipe dream. This is coming before the end of the year.

1. OSX is really one touchscreen away from being like Windows 8/iOS if Apple decides to take it in that direction, so no, they're not 3 generations behind. There already is the launchpad that looks just like the application grid on an iPad.
2. You are not getting high performance PC gaming graphics on tablets anytime soon. The physics just isn't there. I mean tablets as in fanless lightweight devices.
3. Even Intel can't defy the laws of physics and they're not going to be able to make something fanless that will put any 2 year old workstation to shame performance wise anytime soon. Semiconductor process shrinks are getting harder and harder.

 

[coldfoot]

Like dLMN8R said, no screen size is optimal for everyone. I would slit my wrist if I had to use that tiny screen on the mini to do most of my casual web browsing. I'm old though with crappy vision.

Currently the market is pushing for bigger screens in mobile phones and smaller lighter tablets.
I'd look for a convergence there before trying to converge a laptop and a tablet.

 

[BrownChickenBrownCow]

Currently the market is pushing for bigger screens in mobile phones and smaller lighter tablets.
I'd look for a convergence there before trying to converge a laptop and a tablet.

Big screens for mobile phones, like the Note/Note 2 belong in what you've called a niche market. Average phone screen size has increased though from 2011 to 2012 (thanks HTC/Samsung) and tablets other than iPad have been 5-7 inches regularly for the past 3 years. The only exception is the iPad mini, which is new and you seem to own thus shaping your opinion.

So the market isn't really pushing anything, it is just growing because the quality of the products that have existed in those sizes have gotten better, and demand has increased accordingly so, but there is absolutely nothing ground breaking in shape and size that has happened in 3 years (quality is a different story)

 

[coldfoot]

Big screens for mobile phones, like the Note/Note 2 belong in what you've called a niche market.

The niche part is for the stylus not for the screen size as I have said in my previous posts. Maybe you should go back and read it again before putting words in my mouth. I know and have seen many people with the Note 2, none of them ever use a stylus.

Average phone screen size has increased though from 2011 to 2012 (thanks HTC/Samsung) and tablets other than iPad have been 5-7 inches regularly for the past 3 years. The only exception is the iPad mini, which is new and you seem to own thus shaping your opinion.

iPad mini is not a 7-inch tablet. It's 8, which to me is the sweet spot between size and portability out of all the tablets I've tried so far. If only it had a retina screen, it'd be the perfect tablet in terms of physical properties. iOS would still leave much to be desired if they didn't improve it.

 

[DagsJT]

Can't we just have a "Coldfoot vs the rest of the world" thread? This is kinda ridiculous.

 

[BrownChickenBrownCow]

The niche part is for the stylus not for the screen size as I have said in my previous posts. Maybe you should go back and read it again before putting words in my mouth. I know and have seen many people with the Note 2, none of them ever use a stylus.


iPad mini is not a 7-inch tablet. It's 8, which to me is the sweet spot between size and portability out of all the tablets I've tried so far. If only it had a retina screen, it'd be the perfect tablet in terms of physical properties. iOS would still leave much to be desired if they didn't improve it.

Yup you are right about the first part. Sorry. The iPad mini's screen size is the same or .1 inch off of many android tablets before it. Not a new thing, and it's actually 7.9 inches.

 

[derFeef]

Currently the market is pushing for bigger screens in mobile phones and smaller lighter tablets.
I'd look for a convergence there before trying to converge a laptop and a tablet.

So, a Surface.

 

[antiquegamer]

Just an anecdote of course, but my wife uses touch more than mouse on her S7. It's perfectly natural for her to lift her hand a couple inches from the keyboard to touch the screen to scroll web pages vs. indirectly scrolling with a mouse or the touchpad. A lot more comfortable than moving the same distance to the trackpad. Same thing with tapping links and such. But she loves that the trackpad is there when she's doing something that needs a bit more precision, like in Publisher or somesuch.

Most reviewers of touchscreen laptops seem to be surprised at how much they start using touch as an addition to mouse/trackpad and keyboard. It's obviously not a replacement, but a nice augment.

Also, this: http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/30/3710900/gorilla-arm-touchscreen-laptop-windows-8-apple (Bonus perk: that article references "toaster" and "refrigerator")

I stated this before Windows 8 came out that touch screen laptop will be the norm and people are condition to touch the screen because of iPad and tablets popularity. I was told by many Gaffers that I was crazy and nobody would want to touch laptop screen. My wife used iPad exclusively for the last 6 months and now she reach for my laptop screen out of habit. I did the same thing when I was using the ipad heavily. My kids are all condition to touch the screen to navigate.

 

[ralexand]

1. OSX is really one touchscreen away from being like Windows 8/iOS if Apple decides to take it in that direction, so no, they're not 3 generations behind. There already is the launchpad that looks just like the application grid on an iPad.
2. You are not getting high performance PC gaming graphics on tablets anytime soon. The physics just isn't there. I mean tablets as in fanless lightweight devices.
3. Even Intel can't defy the laws of physics and they're not going to be able to make something fanless that will put any 2 year old workstation to shame performance wise anytime soon. Semiconductor process shrinks are getting harder and harder.

Just adding a touchscreen doesn't get you where MS is today with an OS designed for both touch and mouse usage and you're clueless about graphic performance on a tablet. Surface Pro can play a lot of high performance games and with time it will get even better:

http://youtu.be/KkKIWq_CsLA

 

[m0dus]

The niche part is for the stylus not for the screen size as I have said in my previous posts. Maybe you should go back and read it again before putting words in my mouth. I know and have seen many people with the Note 2, none of them ever use a stylus.


iPad mini is not a 7-inch tablet. It's 8, which to me is the sweet spot between size and portability out of all the tablets I've tried so far. If only it had a retina screen, it'd be the perfect tablet in terms of physical properties. iOS would still leave much to be desired if they didn't improve it.

Yeah. I think you've pretty much had your say. Citing anecdotal facts and opinion in an effort to contradict every possible positive angle is getting tiresome, and it no longer equates to constructive or even interesting discussion.

Consider this a two minute warning: Wrap up your discussion points before the new page.

 

[Returners]

I'm just wondering as I was talking with a friend who is a diehard Apple fanatic. How many people here bought the Pro because you we're in the market for a laptop?

I mean I was looking at the Air and then realized this time comes out with being lighter and pretty much the same specs.

I cannot believe how much I use the pen now. Even with the touch cover on, other than scrolling web pages with touch, I instinctively reach for my pen to do stuff.

 

[eastmen]

I'm just wondering as I was talking with a friend who is a diehard Apple fanatic. How many people here bought the Pro because you we're in the market for a laptop?

I mean I was looking at the Air and then realized this time comes out with being lighter and pretty much the same specs.

I cannot believe how much I use the pen now. Even with the touch cover on, other than scrolling web pages with touch, I instinctively reach for my pen to do stuff.

I wanted to reduce what I was carrying with me for travel. So I replaced a tablet + ultra portable with the surface pro. works really well in that regard.

 

[Ryu1999]

Anyone have any idea as to when the 128gbs will back in stock?

 

[eastmen]

Anyone have any idea as to when the 128gbs will back in stock?

the store at garden state plaza in new jersey said they expect more this thursday

 

[kazinova]

So, the fiancée ordered a 128gb Pro at our local Best Buy, I'm so glad we each have Lumia 920s so we can curl them to get pumped to hold the massive 2lb Pro. If we start to do 3 sets of 10 reps of the 920s in each hand we might be ready to hold the Surface by the time it comes in.

 

[Warnen]

My apple fanatic brother likes the surface pro so much that he would switch if he wasn't so invested in the apple eco system. Thinks that's a big issue with new platforms, unlike myself (a huge apple fan, mostly because of superb build quality, didn't really use many apps besides a few touch games like angry birds), he owns a ton of gaming apps that don't transfer.

On a side not I love Gunpowder, that is all.

 

[derFeef]

Basically having a Cintiq for the couch sounds so awesome, m0dus' posts makes it really hard living in Europe currently. I hope Wacom delivers some drivers soon, though.

 

[DagsJT]

My apple fanatic brother likes the surface pro so much that he would switch if he wasn't so invested in the apple eco system. Thinks that's a big issue with new platforms, unlike myself (a huge apple fan, mostly because of superb build quality, didn't really use many apps besides a few touch games like angry birds), he owns a ton of gaming apps that don't transfer.

On a side not I love Gunpowder, that is all.

Gunpowder?

 

[Warnen]

Gunpowder?

Microsoft studio touch puzzle game in app store. Great fun.

link to it

 

[TKR92]

I really want to have Surface Pro. But maybe in 3 month

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm gonna replace my ultrabook with one of these eventually, but I can't just yet because:

-battery life
-Still need a good keyboard for school

I think by the time broadwell comes out, you'd be a fool to buy anything other than a surface-like hybrid. I mean, there will be specialty cases like gamers and stuff, but it'll be the most popular form factor in two years, I predict.

 

[Ryu1999]

the store at garden state plaza in new jersey said they expect more this thursday

Sweet. I'm gonna call my local MS store and see if its the same. I was about to bite on the 64gb but if its only a few days ill wait.

 

[iFootball]

I'm just wondering as I was talking with a friend who is a diehard Apple fanatic. How many people here bought the Pro because you we're in the market for a laptop?

I was... I sold my 3yo Windows 7 Laptop last year, and I was tempted to find a smaller, touch-enabled replacement... an iPad was never an option for me, as I already have and absolutely adore my iPhone, and for me at least it seems totally redundant to get the exact same functionality but in a bigger screen... I needed something to fill most of the voids missing from the iOS ecosystem (and the flexibility to work with the rest of my surrounding devices: printers, NAS, Wife's Laptop, HD video-camera, Blu-ray burner, etc.). So, I was in the market for something more portable, touch-enabled, and was initially looking for an Ultrabook... then Surface was announced and IMO it perfectly complements my devices

 

[ganbareneopokekun]

i'm on coldfoots side.

a friend of mine has a surface, such a weird inbetweener.
I get that it has the power as a notebook.. its a notebook? then i would prefer a notebook with an adjustable screen.
only one position with the stand? wat? and there is no way to use it properly in bed on the go.. you need a desk or something flat.

"you can use it as a tablet".. ok it's a tablet? but the non metro UI isn't that easy to use.. "use the stylus"... just another compromise : (

i get that this thing is great for a minor audience who needed something like that, but i don't see this thing getting as much attention as the ipad, maybe with a filled appstore .D

 

[Izuna]

I really want to have Surface Pro. But maybe in 3 month

Exactly the same boat as you. Was saving for the Surface Pro since October (along with the Cyan Lumia 920) but neither of these are available in the UK. So instead I just pent it all for my upcoming anniversary. Been using a free RT for the past month.

But now I'm running into the situation where if the Pro isn't out here by April or Nokia does in fact announce their "EOS" smartphone I won't be getting anything until September... a year later since my hype had started.

*sigh* I'm so jealous of Americans for this particular instance.

 

[crisdecuba]

Mine's coming today! I went with the 64GB Pro with a 32GB Class 10 MicroSD card. I saved about $75 on the total cost and should be set for a long while (and then I can just upgrade to a 64GB card ).

 

[DagsJT]

Microsoft studio touch puzzle game in app store. Great fun.

link to it

Cheers, looks pretty good.

 

[Damon Bennet]

i repeat myself but: anyone know an online shop that hsips nternationally?

 

[coldfoot]

Just adding a touchscreen doesn't get you where MS is today with an OS designed for both touch and mouse usage and you're clueless about graphic performance on a tablet. Surface Pro can play a lot of high performance games and with time it will get even better:

You have not read anything I said, have you?
1. Running iOS on a macbook would be easy, even via emulation. Apple was able to emulate PPC on Intel years ago, it's pretty easy to emulate something low power/performance like ARM on a vastly more powerful Intel CPU.
2. Intel integrated graphics in an ULV (read: low clock frequency) processor is not "high performance gaming".
3. I specifically mentioned tablets as thin, fanless devices, which the Surface Pro is not. Haswell is still going to be on a 22nm process as IVB, so it's not going to be as power efficient as ARM or Atom either.

Since I've been shown the door by the mods, this is my last post in this thread. I'll leave you to your styluses.

 

[iFootball]

Since I've been shown the door by the mods, this is my last post in this thread. I'll leave you to your styluses.

hahaha, you JUST-HAD-TO, right?

 

[Divvy]

At least he didn't get banned like the last time he went on an anecdotal evidence fueled rampage

 

[Troll]

At least he didn't get banned like the last time he went on an anecdotal evidence fueled rampage

I actually like reading his troll posts, but when he started with dLMN8R he came across as desperate. dLMN8R was doing circles around him and I was actually cringing at points during their exchange.

 

[I'm an expert]

Since I've been shown the door by the mods, this is my last post in this thread. I'll leave you to your styluses.

Us elite prefer styli.

 

[Stinkles]

I find it funny that 2lbs is considered a brick. Then again, I've never had any issues with holding my 900, which was also considered thick and heavy at its release.

I held both at once yesterday and could barely tell. Which is not the same as long term use, I admit.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Let dLMN8R be our light, when all other lights go out.

 

[Troll]

Let dLMN8R be our light, when all other lights go out.

Amen, brother Anton.

 

[btrboyev]

I find it funny that 2lbs is considered a brick. Then again, I've never had any issues with holding my 900, which was also considered thick and heavy at its release.

It's also lighter than a macbook air even with a type cover on.

 

[Zabka]

i'm on coldfoots side.

a friend of mine has a surface, such a weird inbetweener.
I get that it has the power as a notebook.. its a notebook? then i would prefer a notebook with an adjustable screen.
only one position with the stand? wat? and there is no way to use it properly in bed on the go.. you need a desk or something flat.

Lay it flat, type on the screen like most people do with tablets?

 

[ganbareneopokekun]

yeah i get that, i just wanted to say that the typecover missed the point for me.

are there any sale numbers? kinda curious how this thing sold compared to other devices

 

[eastmen]

i'm on coldfoots side.

a friend of mine has a surface, such a weird inbetweener.
I get that it has the power as a notebook.. its a notebook? then i would prefer a notebook with an adjustable screen.
only one position with the stand? wat? and there is no way to use it properly in bed on the go.. you need a desk or something flat.

"you can use it as a tablet".. ok it's a tablet? but the non metro UI isn't that easy to use.. "use the stylus"... just another compromise : (

i get that this thing is great for a minor audience who needed something like that, but i don't see this thing getting as much attention as the ipad, maybe with a filled appstore .D

I dunno I use this in bed and its fine

As for adjustments im sure people will come up with cases to offer my settings. The kickstand offers one but really doesnt add any bulk

 

[DagsJT]

Urgh, down to 1.6GB free space on my 32GB RT. Just deleting the recovery partition now but can't believe I've hit this point already with not that many apps installed.

 

[deadbass]

How's everyone finding the battery life? I'm a little worried about mine - fully charged, with nothing running, in power saving mode, it estimates about 4.5 hours. In practice, web browsing gets me about 3.5 hours.

I tried running a 720p movie from 100% charge and it only lasted about 3 hours 20 minutes, which doesn't seem to come close to what the reviewers were getting.

I'm wondering if I should call customer support.