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Sweden-GAF |OT| I'd Say It's Pretty Lagom
- Thread starter Ledsen
- Start date
Not cool man that's racist!
zero shift
Banned
So what's going on with your immigrants. It seems that they have a difficult time integrating, performing well in school, and finding decent jobs. Why is this?
Grassclipper
Member
Såg några svenska flaggor idag när jag var ute och gick, läskigt att rasismen är så framträdande och accepterad i dagens samhälle...We don't like to talk about it, so we basically pretends the problem doesn't exist. I think the most prevalent theory outside of the nationalist parties "it's because they're stupid immigrants" is that we've taken in more immigrants than we can handle in a short period of time. It's not that there isn't enough space for everyone (we got plenty of it) but that system can't handle that much new people at once. But still, I'm no expert so I might be (I probably am) wrong.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Not sure if serious, but this isn't true at all. Immigrants have a much easier time integrating with the society in Sweden than they do in many other countries. As for finding jobs, well, I don't know if you've noticed but the world is in recession still, and if Swedes themselves have a hard time finding a job then it's obviously even more difficult for an immigrant who doesn't have a higher education. Same as in every OECD-country.
I think the biggest problem is the shit state the school system is in.
The schools are on average quit bad, and the quality is quite varied. There's no reason that Sweden should be that much worse than Finland.
Disassembling the school system based on a national curriculum, which could probably react to changes in the world quicked and have better quality control, was an awful decision.
Going to uni for a degree in education requires less than passing every class in high school, and the profession isn't as respected as it deserves to be (however the stock of teachers at the moment isn't anything impressive either).
If we had more knowledge requirements and some discipline, rather than focussing as much on independent work (without removing it completely, there are some advantages), there shouldn't be any problem in immigrant communities, as the social safety net is quite generous compared to the rest of the world. However, I think you need to acknowledge that not everyone has the same possibilities in terms of support for school work at home.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
There are so many things wrong with this post
skjut.
zero shift
Banned
It was just with that Stockholm riot thread they listed a bunch of shocking statistics such as the town in started in has 20% unemployment for immigrants while Sweden as a whole has like 2%. And that in one town where its half immigrants more than a third of students are failing school.
I don't understand why you guys just don't copy Finland's education system. Why are you guys dicking around with privately ran schools?
I don't understand why you guys just don't copy Finland's education system. Why are you guys dicking around with privately ran schools?
Politicians allow a lot of immigrants into the country. Said politicians dump immigrants into the same areas and pat themselves on the back for being 'good', then ignore the immigrants. What's left are people who might have a hard time integrating into Swedish society in various ways. The most extreme don't want to integrate and live by rules they had in their homeland (e.g. honor killings).
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Okej då. Men lova att inte bli gramse.
Först och främst förklarar du egentligen inte vad du menar när du säger att skolsystemet är i ett uselt tillstånd. Du hävdar att genomsnittsskolorna är ganska dåliga, men faktum är att svenska skolor håller en hyfsat hög kvalité, framförallt när det gäller att främja gemenskap mellan svenskar och invandrare. Jag har personligen besökt ett flertal skolor i Sydeuropa, och jag häpnade över hur jämförbart dåliga de skolorna var, och då besökte jag skolor som var ganska välansedda. En av mina vänner är från USA och har bott i Sverige i snart ett år. Han har studerat på universitet i USA i tio år och han anser att de svenska skolorna har ett avsevärt bättre system allt som allt. I USA är det stor skillnad på fattiga och rika när det gäller skolor. I Sverige kan du bo i en stad och plugga i en annan, vilket är förbjudet i USA, och detta bland annat skapar problem med att USA har skolor med klasser på 40-60 fattiga ungdomar, och elitskolor med klasser på ett tiotal rika elever med avsevärt bättre utbildning. Detta blir framförallt ett problem mellan mörkhyade och ljushyade. Svenska skolor är alla gratis att studera vid, vilket gynnar den vida majoriteten av befolkningen, så när som på den absoluta eliten.
Hur som helst är kvalitén på utbildningen i det närmaste irrelevant till invandringsfrågan, så när som på hur invandrare tas emot i samhället, och de tas överlag emot väldigt väl. Det känns som om du inte riktigt förstår problemet i kärnan. Om kvalitén på utbildningen skulle vara dålig är den ju lika dålig för både svenskar och invandrare. Vidare vet jag inte alls vad du menar med din jämförelse med Finland.
Grassclipper
Member
The unemployment rates in Sweden was at 8.7% back in april and haven't been down on 2% for years so that figure isn't based on any kind of reality.
And one of the larger private school companies just filed for bankruptcy.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Haha, 2% unemployment rate in 2013. Good luck finding that in any country (well, that isn't communistic). Double-check those numbers, mate.
As for privately ran schools -- how do they POSSIBLY benefit immigrants? It's quite the opposite. Schools are a business. Why do you run a business? To make money. Why do you run a school? To make money. How do you make money? Well, we all know how that works.
Don't go there and blame the politicians. Whenever a politician says "no" to an immigrant the newspaper writes a six-page story on it, some teens create a Facebook-group and suddenly a storm has started. Politicians allow immigrants in and Swedes rage. Politicians throw immigrants out and Swedes rage.
That's Sweden for ya'all.
Hmm, det var ett bra argument, särskilt med tanke på att vi faktiskt relativt sett har en ok skola och då kanske det inte borde vara ett av huvudproblemen med integrationen (om det verkligen är ett så stort problem, tycker det verkar ganska överdrivet, särskilt om folk utanför Sverige försöker karakterisera det).
Vad jag menade med min jämförelse med Finland är att de uppnår mycket bättre resultat, oavsett vem som går i skolan, det är väl ändå så att invandrare underpresterar i skolan? Och eftersom mina egna erfarenhet bara är från Sverige/Finland/USA, vill jag ju att Sverige ska vara lika bra som den bästa i alla aspekt. Det är ju bara att kolla på statistiken, det är ju knappast några utom-skolpolitiska skillnader som är tillräckliga för att förklara resultatskillnaden mellan Sverige och Finland.
Egentligen är väl båda extremsidorna av immigrationsdebatterna i Sverige representerade till mest del av ruttna äpplen, dvs. stenkastande ungdomar och rasister.
Sedan behöver du faktiskt inte säga så där i början... Det här är ju ett jävla forum... <3
Private schools are a red herring in the debate. "Private" schools happened after the decline of the school system happened. Sad to say, but I prefer good education for the most ambitious students and worse for those who are not, rather than bad for all. In many places the private alternatives are simply better than their public counter-parts.
And the reason why we didn't copy it is because we had a more similar system to theirs before, and tried to do something new.
zero shift
Banned
I'm just curious because as an American these under-performing immigrants tend to be of Islamic or Islamic-like heritage. In America such people are the model minority in this country as they have high educational attainment, low crime offending, and open up tons of businesses. It doesn't seem that way in Sweden. Yes, yes we handpick our immigrants if they can't physically cross our borders, but its still shocking to me.
As for the school situation, Sweden's PISA test scores for 2009 were behind the USA in general.
I thought that the general consensus was the the private schools in Sweden were doing very well?
As for the school situation, Sweden's PISA test scores for 2009 were behind the USA in general.
I thought that the general consensus was the the private schools in Sweden were doing very well?
As someone who works at a school and is an immigrant, I'd have to say that blame should be put on many parts. It is true that politicians are part of the problem. I do think we are letting in more immigrants than we can handle at the moment. I'd also agree that many immigrants are put in one place and then they have to manage somehow. But if you flip the coin, I could say that many immigrants abuse the system. They know that they still get money even if they don't work. A lot of people are unwilling to acclimate to the place they live in. There are a lot of immigrants that can't accept Swedish customs, which to me is strange. They talk shit about the country despite being safe from the horrible conditions of their home countries. I know of many families with 5+ children and the parents have no jobs and can barely speak Swedish. And it doesn't seem like they have any intention of getting a job. There are other people in this situation that do want a job but get rejected wherever they go. I live in an area with mostly immigrants. The school I work at has an 85% immigrant / 15% Swedish ratio in some classes. Most classes consist only of immigrant children. How are these children supposed to fit into the Swedish society?
When people blame the people that work at schools, I would like to invite those people for just one day and see what it is we have to deal with at our school. It's easy to talk the talk, but words don't mean shit. The kids are crazy. They all come from different cultures that clash. They all have parents that can't help them with studies because of language barriers. Or there are parents that don't give a shit about their kids. All they think about is being gangster, that's the type of kids we deal with.
In short: One can't just blame one side and one shouldn't believe all the propaganda one reads.
If you move to a country, you should be willing to work. You might not find work easily, but as long as you honestly try to look for work, I'd say that there is a place for you. My parents were unemployed for two years when we moved here. Then my father got a job here, a job there, and so on. One could say they were jobs that are looked down upon, but it made him a stronger person in the end. Now he doesn't work for anyone. He has run a gaming arcade, a pizzeria, a restaurant and bought real estates, it just took time and hard work. None of these made him a fortune, yet he provided for us.
When people blame the people that work at schools, I would like to invite those people for just one day and see what it is we have to deal with at our school. It's easy to talk the talk, but words don't mean shit. The kids are crazy. They all come from different cultures that clash. They all have parents that can't help them with studies because of language barriers. Or there are parents that don't give a shit about their kids. All they think about is being gangster, that's the type of kids we deal with.
In short: One can't just blame one side and one shouldn't believe all the propaganda one reads.
If you move to a country, you should be willing to work. You might not find work easily, but as long as you honestly try to look for work, I'd say that there is a place for you. My parents were unemployed for two years when we moved here. Then my father got a job here, a job there, and so on. One could say they were jobs that are looked down upon, but it made him a stronger person in the end. Now he doesn't work for anyone. He has run a gaming arcade, a pizzeria, a restaurant and bought real estates, it just took time and hard work. None of these made him a fortune, yet he provided for us.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Har du några källor på att finnarna uppnår bättre resultat? Jag känner inte till det, men det kan vara möjligt. Det kan ju finnas mängder av faktorer till det, många av dem komplicerade.
Och varårå, jag vill inte att folk ska bli sura
Men det blir folk ofta när man inte håller med dem. De flesta inser inte att själva poängen med ett forum är ju att diskutera och argumentera. Om alla höll med alla skulle det inte bli mycket av ett forum.Grassclipper
Member
När jag staplade hem full igår upptäckte jag att det finns en Burger King inom fem minuters avstånd ifrån min byggnad som jag aldrig känt till. Har ändå bott här i fyra månader, så det känns ju som något man inte borde missat.
Grassclipper
Member
Angels & Airwaves är tamefan kul att lyssna på. Trodde inte det.
Lyssnade sönder denna skiva back in the day.
Say it ain't so, I will not go
Turn the lights off, carry me home
Na, na, na, na
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na
What do those American immigrants have in common with the Swedish immigrants other than their religion? There are 1,5 billion muslims in the world, using islam as the sole defining trait for all those people seems ill-advised at best.
Forsete
Member
<3
Såg den för många år sedan. Undrar om den finns på Netflix?
Annars hade jag tänkt se "Trading places" ikväll, har för mig att den var rolig.
Grassclipper
Member
I got 99 pages but a good post ain't one?
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Jopp.
Jag är rätt klipsk.
50 sidor för folk med GAF Guld.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Osäker. Kärnan i problemet är skatterna. Bor du i Stockholm och studerar i Uppsala (exempelvis) betalar du skatt till Uppsala. Detta är inte tillåtet i USA. Jag antar att det är på alla nivåer, men är osäker när det gäller universitets-nivå.
Kanske på public schools ja, men på privatskolor får du skicka ungfan vart du vill. På universitet/college-nivå finns inga sådana restriktioner, dock billigare tuition om du är resident i t.ex. Kalifornien och går på UC-skola eller State-skola.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Nej, det där låter osäkert. Har du några källor eller så? Vet inte riktigt om det kanske är en stat-fråga också förvisso.
Har gått på universitet i USA i 4 år, räcker det?
Söderort är fritt från lukten. \o/
Varför detta agg mot Maddes bröllis? Tror det kan bli tungt.
PolarGamer
Member
If you also saw a cat twice, there might be a glitch in the Matrix.
Grassclipper
Member
Ser hur svenska landslaget glömmer bort hur man spelar fotboll...
Synd för dem spela bra första kvarten sen gick det utför.
Elmander gjorde i alla fall ett mål.
Grassclipper
Member
Den här dagen började bra, gjorde klart sista hemtentan igår och har bara latat mig. Sen så går Sverige och förlorar. Gah, nu känns det som att jag slösat bort dagen istället.
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