So what you are saying is that Sweden will be the new Belgium. What happens if there is no budget passed? Do government services have continual funding or it is screwed up like America where if politicians are acting like idiots the civil service shuts down.
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Swedish Prime Minister calls for new election after xenophobe party blocks budget
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So what you are saying is that Sweden will be the new Belgium. What happens if there is no budget passed? Do government services have continual funding or it is screwed up like America where if politicians are acting like idiots the civil service shuts down.
archnemesis
Member
In that case the deciding power will be moved to the parliamentary finance committee (Riksdagens finansutskott). Unless there are any new decisions the previous budget will be re-accepted.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Regarding whether or not the Sweden Democrats are racists: They spend a lot of time talking about Swedishness. They say that to be Swedish you either have to be born here by Swedish parents or, if not, you need to fully assimilate into the Swedish culture. How do they define assimilation? From their document of principles, they say that you have assimilated if you speak Swedish fluently, see yourself as Swedish, live according to Swedish culture, et cetera.
The last point is very interesting. How do you live according to Swedish culture? According to their website you need to be soft-spoken, reserved, cautious and hospitable. Or you would have to always line up nicely in queues, not honk the horn on your car excessively, listen to Swedish folk music and read Selma Lagerlöf. The thing is I know plenty of Swedes that dont possess all these traits. But they were born here and have blonde hair, so they would still count as Swedish. But if you were born somewhere else and have dark hair and brown eyes, you need to have all these traits that would make you into a ridiculous caricature, or else, you would not be Swedish in their eyes. So this means that they judge people on different standards because of their looks, which is racist.
Note that I blatantly stole this argument from a very nice opinion piece on this issue:
Likely, most parties would do a lot worse than in this years election. The only party I would see that would do much better is the Sweden Democrats. Possibly the Centre Party and the Left Party would make small gains as well. For this reason, if I were the social democratic leader, I would make the threat to call for a re-election unless the right-wing coalition would get their ass to the negotiation table. Since almost no-one would want a re-election, it would pressure the parties into reaching a bi-partisan agreement.
The last point is very interesting. How do you live according to Swedish culture? According to their website you need to be soft-spoken, reserved, cautious and hospitable. Or you would have to always line up nicely in queues, not honk the horn on your car excessively, listen to Swedish folk music and read Selma Lagerlöf. The thing is I know plenty of Swedes that dont possess all these traits. But they were born here and have blonde hair, so they would still count as Swedish. But if you were born somewhere else and have dark hair and brown eyes, you need to have all these traits that would make you into a ridiculous caricature, or else, you would not be Swedish in their eyes. So this means that they judge people on different standards because of their looks, which is racist.
Note that I blatantly stole this argument from a very nice opinion piece on this issue:
Likely, most parties would do a lot worse than in this years election. The only party I would see that would do much better is the Sweden Democrats. Possibly the Centre Party and the Left Party would make small gains as well. For this reason, if I were the social democratic leader, I would make the threat to call for a re-election unless the right-wing coalition would get their ass to the negotiation table. Since almost no-one would want a re-election, it would pressure the parties into reaching a bi-partisan agreement.
Other way around, they are a paria and no other party are even willing to hold opening talks with them.
I guess it's a bit "give a finger, they take the whole hand", but I wonder for how long migration policy can be allowed to trumph all other areas and lead to this kind of crisis.
I don't like SD, but I'm a pragmatic and we currently have exceptional volumes both in a national historical context and compared with the rest of the Nordics/EU. To give some perspective to you Americans, it's reaching levels of higher percentages than when mass migration went from Europe to the US in the 19th century.
That the voters react like this is completely in line with what has happened in the rest of EU, but the difference here is that the rest of the parties won't budge an inch. I fear this might create an even more explosive reaction compared to other countries.
Xenophobia is an irrational fear of the unknown or foreign.
I doubt the SD is actually afraid of foreigners, more afraid of irreparably destroying their culture, ethnicity and afraid of an overall societal breakdown. These damages that mass-immigration does to a society are both numerous and well-documented, so the SD's objections are substantiated.
Calling them xenophobic is dismissive and disingenuous, and tells us more about you than about the SD.
I doubt the SD is actually afraid of foreigners, more afraid of irreparably destroying their culture, ethnicity and afraid of an overall societal breakdown. These damages that mass-immigration does to a society are both numerous and well-documented, so the SD's objections are substantiated.
Calling them xenophobic is dismissive and disingenuous, and tells us more about you than about the SD.
Forsete
Gold Member
Timbeeeeeer!
MP and S will hold a press conference very shortly.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/live/1/ (TV)
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/folj-regeringskrisen-direkt/ (Live chat)
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/regeringskrisen_4157995.svd?sidan=1 (TV)
http://sverigesradio.se/p1/ (Radio P1)
MP and S will hold a press conference very shortly.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/live/1/ (TV)
http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/folj-regeringskrisen-direkt/ (Live chat)
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/regeringskrisen_4157995.svd?sidan=1 (TV)
http://sverigesradio.se/p1/ (Radio P1)
Sweden is not under fucking attack, and will not lose it's "swedishness" whatever that is. cultures evolve, they've evolved much since the 90's, and it had evolved every decade before that as well. Those arguments are for me just excuses to hide pure xenophobia.
Edit: Re-election confirmed... holy crap.
Unless they come to any agreement before 29:th of December I guess?
Holy fuck, I'm in shock... did not think it'd come to this.
They claim to be supporting for example senior citizens and workers and so on but that is just a veil. In the parliament they've voted with the alliance 9/10 times. The budget proposal would've benefited senior citizens and the elderly care but they voted for the alliance's budget.
All they care about is immigration and "swedishness" or whatever. It's a far right racist fascist party.
All they care about is immigration and "swedishness" or whatever. It's a far right racist fascist party.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
watch SD get over 20% now
I blame the nation Holland.
I was on the verge of tears when I saw they got more than 12% in September, that'd be really hard to deal with tbh. But it's entirely possible that'll happen.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Hey, could you edit the title to indicate that the PM called for re-election?
He lives in Holland, have some patients
Good like this?
Needs more "Sweden in Fucking shock"...
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Never underestimate the stupidy of people. Nearly 1 million people voted for the islamophobic PVV party (It's not really a party because it has only one member rest are puppets) in the Netherlands.
The worst thing is they are just clearly racist. They recently said "we want less Morrocan people in our streets". Now that's fucking scary, even tho I am not Morrocan.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
How is a party that at best will win 6 seats hold anyone hostage?
Firmus_Anguis
Banned
I can't fucking believe this...
While I can completely understand the economic problems that inmigration could bring, I just don't get why the countries that are getting more aprehensive towards it are, precisely, the ones with the more secure and sound economies (England, Sweden, Switzerland, etc), while walking economic disasters such as my own country Spain are in full "not giving a single fuck mode" about that issue.
Strangely enough, the only country where the conventional wisdom of "massive economic crysis bringing political extremism" is becoming true is Greece. I just don't get it. Why this particular timing? What do you Swedes fear, exactly? Or is it more of a backslash against leftist parties / discourse?
Strangely enough, the only country where the conventional wisdom of "massive economic crysis bringing political extremism" is becoming true is Greece. I just don't get it. Why this particular timing? What do you Swedes fear, exactly? Or is it more of a backslash against leftist parties / discourse?
This is all such complete fucking bullshit. This is not how Swedish politicians are supposed to deal with ruling, especially during a crisis. It's all down to the goddamn block politics - had this been 20 years ago we wouldn't be heading to a snap election, we would have seen a majority center government with S+Mp+C+Fp instead. Partisanism is the worst thing that ever happened to the Swedish parliament.
And worst of all is that there's no way in hell SD won't benefit from creating this mess either. They're populist - they thrive on malcontent, no matter what the source. And I'm going to be so fucking pissed off if the Alliance actually gets a majority somehow from the snap election because that's basically no better than stealing it, seeing as how SD would almost certainly have done the same thing to them if the roles were reversed.
This is maddening. The parliament is supposed to be better than this. We're supposed to be better than this. It's bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!
And worst of all is that there's no way in hell SD won't benefit from creating this mess either. They're populist - they thrive on malcontent, no matter what the source. And I'm going to be so fucking pissed off if the Alliance actually gets a majority somehow from the snap election because that's basically no better than stealing it, seeing as how SD would almost certainly have done the same thing to them if the roles were reversed.
This is maddening. The parliament is supposed to be better than this. We're supposed to be better than this. It's bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!
Huh thought they were expected to get 30. My mistake.
Isn't it up to S+MP to present a budget that the Alliance will agree on? No such budget was presented, which is why they voted for their own budget. I don't see how it's stealing in any form.
Because economy has next to nothing to do with it. True, refugee immigration is a drain early on but immigration overall actually benefits an economy. Sweden has one of the most stable economies in Europe in some degree thanks to it. Our birth rate isn't great at all it's below the replacement rate, even with immigration that typically bring in younger people. Without immigration we would be heading towards a situation similar to Japan: a shrinking, aging population resulting in economic stagnation.
No, the hostility to immigration is pure xenophobia. Those voting for SD simply don't like seeing non-white people in the streets, don't like hearing foreign languages on the bus and don't like that those uppity immigrants occasionally complain when they're treated like shit. They justify this by accusing immigration of causing any woe conceivable currently affecting Sweden.
The reason it's more obvious in Sweden and other Northern European nations might simply be because the immigrants themselves are more noticeable if you ask me. We've historically been very ethnically homogeneous and this means that even the relatively few refugees we have, which typically come from the Middle East or Africa, stand out in a crowd. There are other factors as well compounding this, such as Swedish people being very reserved in public whereas many cultures immigrating are more animated.
At the end of the day it's still down to that a lot of people seem to resent the immigrants for existing while being different, basically. It's a story as old as Man.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Yep, totally a comparable situation that brings a lot to the discussion.
No, but if the Alliance had narrowly won the 2014 election it would be the exact same thing. They would present a budget, S, Mp and V wouldn't vote for it and SD would kill it. They didn't kill the S+Mp budget because they could honestly get behind the Alliance budget, they did it because they seem to think that not rocking the boat these last 4 years brought them nothing and that they can only benefit from this clusterfuck. And they're probably right.
And if the roles had been reversed that way I would hate it equally much if S+Mp would take power in a snap election and think they stole it. My reasoning is simple - the 2014 election was the real election. The 2015 election will be tainted by a belief that the minority government dropped the ball which I consider to be irrational; they did actually reach out to Fp and C after the last election and when that lead nowhere fast they formed a minority government the same way as has been done for decades.
They don't deserve to lose power over that any more than the Alliance would have deserved it had the roles been reversed.
Their roots are in nazism...
Damerman
Member
i hope you are not defending this. and just posting a matter of fact in terms of what the SD believe. this ideology is essentially what the KKK in the US has devolved to.
Sure, had the roles been reversed it would be the exact same thing. It would then be up to the Alliance, the government, to make sure their budget goes through the Riksdag. If they would fail that, they would have failed as a government, just like S+MP have now. The current government did reach out, but Fp+C obviously feel that their politics are too different.
I thnk it's obvious they deserve to lose power if they can't pass their budget. It's as simple as that, really.
You're gonna compare nazism and communism? Soviet for example was a fascist state, it was not communism, Hitler's Germany was nazism and what was actually intended and look what it did.
But what can you expect from someone who votes FP lol.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I will put up a more comprehensive update to the OP when I get home from choir rehearsal in about four hours.
Thank you for the insight. That being said, it is still extremely perplexing. I mean, Sweden is a model of democracy and social development, and most of the Swedish political discourse has been pushing in the opposite direction that the country is taking right now for decades. I just don't know why this is happening out of a shudden. It is not as if racism is something that burst up and explodes quickly as if it were some kind of random chemical explosion.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I live in the UK, and I was previously seriously thinking about trying to study a masters degree in Sweden (and try to learn Swedish whilst doing it) with the hope that I'd be able to move over permanently but am not so sure anymore with the whole Sweden Democrat thing, especially since I would be an immigrant in that case and also I'm ethnically Chinese (though I was born in the UK and have lived there all the time), so I am looking at this situation with concern. Are Sverigedemokraterna actually as racist/xenophobic as people have been claiming, and is Sweden's immigration policy really "open-border" and therefore unreasonable as they claim? I've looked at the website of Migrationsverket for the process you need to go through to move to Sweden and it seems pretty similar to the policy that Norway uses for both EU/EEA applicants and non EU/EEA applicants. The only difference is that it seems that you can get citizenship a lot faster than in Norway and other Nordic countries.It's pretty depressing to see a once liberal and open Sweden going in a reactionary, nationalist direction all of a sudden, looking from outside...
at least for switzerland it's mostly that we have more than 20% foreigners by now and a lot of people continue to immigrate since we have a stable economy.
High numbers of immigrants is good for the economy but when the make up of a society changes there's people that don't want it to change since "we got here by things being as they are".
It's also in parts a reaction to globalisation and the fear of not being able to keep up with cheaper foreign labour in your own country. Since left parties (at least in Switzerland) are completely incomentent at reaching their former base concerning these matters many who used to vote left switched camps.
There's also been a rising issue with both sides refusing to compromise and essentially slinging insults at each other. I don't know how it's possible to adress concerns that are sometimes racist/xenophobic but one has to. Or people that feel concerned are starting to vote really stupidly.
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