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Tales of Graces ƒ |OT| Gracing the PS3 with the Best RPG Combat

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
And I hope you're just referring to the field maps with Xillia. I really do.

Edit: This is why numerical scores are just pants on head retarded and should forever be abolished.
That's why whenever I write up impressions or a review, I don't score games. I say that it's recommended, worth a rental, or avoid. Scores are utterly controversial now that the modern review scale has warped them.

But in my books, 6 isn't a bad score. It means a game is average. 7 means it's good. I think that's how kayos looks at the score too.

Xillia's field maps are sadly devoid of anything cool. Guess who grinded in the wetlands near ニ アケリア for several hours in the beginning and got bored staring at that place?
 
That's why whenever I write up impressions or a review, I don't score games. I say that it's recommended, worth a rental, or avoid. Scores are utterly controversial now that the modern review scale has warped them.

But in my books, 6 isn't a bad score. It means a game is average. 7 means it's good. I think that's how kayos looks at the score too.

Xillia's field maps are sadly devoid of anything cool. Guess who grinded in the wetlands near ニ アケリア for several hours in the beginning and got bored staring at that place?

It's not a bad score, sure, but I feel as if it's really underselling it because it implies that the minor flaws in the game are so bad that it makes what's great about it not worth it. One of the most important things a game should be judged on is whether or not its fun, and my god, Graces is as fun as it gets.

And I agree about the field maps, they're not particularly amazing or anything, hence why I was hoping that's all he was talking about. Not counting the ports, which were just as copy & paste'd as in Graces, the town design in that game is absolutely stunning at times, i.e places like Il Fan, Shan Du and Kan Baruku.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
The GT review is very telling at the end when they state how it doesn't let you explore and wants you to move along the story path. They wanted a game that lets them explore a massive world ala Skyrim or Xenoblade, and Graces f is not that game. Thus, the lower score.

However it also highlights that games with the same problems but with better graphics like FFXIII get more of a free pass for this than a game that is basically a ported Wii game.
 
Welp. This is pretty much my favorite Tales game now. And I've played (almost) all of them.

Somewhere along the line I unlocked Hard Mode and it just make the game that much better. Of course, the slime boss is mutilating me (well not it itself, she's not that bad, it's the ten little slimes it leaves behind). I'm going to look for something with fire and go back to them.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
It's not a bad score, sure, but I feel as if it's really underselling it because it implies that the minor flaws in the game are so bad that it makes what's great about it not worth it. One of the most important things a game should be judged on is whether or not its fun, and my god, Graces is as fun as it gets.

And I agree about the field maps, they're not particularly amazing or anything, hence why I was hoping that's all he was talking about. Not counting the ports, which were just as copy & paste'd as in Graces, the town design in that game is absolutely stunning at times, i.e places like Il Fan, Shan Du and Kan Baruku.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but one could argue that those little things add up in the end to make for a rather lacklustre overall package as opposed to the one stellar thing in the game. This could be attributed to personal taste, though.

The ports in Xillia were oh-so-boring. Going there for subquests was fine, but no reason to go there again unless you're levelling up shops or something since you get
fast travel
. The towns were perfectly fine. The presentation outside of the field environments was alright in Xillia, imo.
 

Razlo

Member
I told myself I'd wait to play Tales of Graces f until after I beat Tales of the Abyss on 3DS, but I popped in the game and I can't stop playing it. Double Tales action can not be avoided, they're both just too good!
 

Varion

Member
Honestly, that score is the right score in my eyes. 6ish score is below average and the game as a whole is below average. As much as I want combat to be a bigger factor it's not. It's about the experience and the packaging and Graces f does a terrible job of doing so. Part of it is because it's a port of a Wii game and I understand that limitation.
Fine, this bit is your opinion. I don't agree with it, but you can have it.

If this bombs, which it will, it's all on NB. They should've known that it would get bad/mixed reviews. As for people bashing the 6.8, I'm not being specific to GAF, they're dumb. If you can't recognize the faults that Graces has and exaggerate it's good parts, then you're not doing the devs a favor. I don't want cookie cutter JRPG design choices in EVERY JRPG. Xillia, did a good job in that aspect even if it had shitastic environments.
This is flat out stupid, and basically boils down to "I've decided that this is a flaw and one review site agrees with me, so if you don't agree with me then "you're dumb" and "not doing the devs a favour". Really?

Let's go through these flaws we're all universally supposed to recognise, guaranteed the game would bomb and Namco Bandai should've known then. Using Schala's post as reference here, I sure don't have time to watch the review. Not suggesting you necessarily agree with all of them but they're clearly what led GameTrailers to their score, which we're all supposed to agree with if we're not dumb. Obviously removing the lines that aren't flaws.

- Childhood Arc? It's an hour or so, is pretty important in the plot, and I found it enjoyable and liked the fact that between the childhood arc, the main story and the future arc you get to three different periods in the characters' lives. If the player absolutely hates children talking then that's up to them, but don't take it out on the game.
- Find the story predictable? Okay. Not every story has to be full of mind blowing twists that come out of nowhere. It's plenty enjoyable enough to drive the game along.
- Various exploration grumbling - All I can say is "So?" There's a decent amount of freedom in the game, as shown by people in this thread rejoicing about being able to explore stuff they didn't think they could, but no, this isn't some game where the whole world is open to you at the start. That's not some objective flaw. Two of the countries you obviously can't go to, the game really isn't THAT limited past the childhood arc, and it makes sense it would be limited during the childhood arc because... you're a child. You're not some seasoned warrior who's capable of entering areas with enemies 20 levels higher than you.
- "Dislikes the fetch quests and requests"? So don't do them. They're nice optional content for people who want it, you're not forced to do loads of fetch quests to advance the story. This isn't one of those games.
- I'm going to assume "battle system isn't a huge departure from past games" isn't a complaint, because it's more than enough of a change to be worthy of the praise people in this thread are giving it.
- "Combat is button mashy?" Stop playing on easy, everything action based is 'button mashy' if the difficulty is low enough, or you'll have people not buying the game because it's "too hard".
- "Difficulty starts low... battles are over in 10 seconds or less." Yeah, they're playing on easy. The Graces I played was generally challenging, battles were definitely not over in 10 seconds or less, and changing strategies and not button mashing was what got me through difficulty battles.
- "No effort to improve the graphics past the Wii version?" They're blind and exaggerating, the game looks nice and clean, vastly more so than the Wii version, and while the graphics aren't going to blow you away (Tales games don't have that kind of budget in the first place), they're nice to look at and are more than good enough. Next.
- Voice acting I can't comment on because I haven't played the English version.
- The music isn't especially amazing, they can have this one. It's not terrible or a huge flaw though.

So, basically, they're all opinions. Not agreeing with them does not make you dumb, and finding the game's many excellent points such as the battle system (when you spend half of the game battling) more worthy of focus over things like it not being a game it was never trying to be, like an open world RPG or a masterpiece of complex storytelling, does not mean you're "exaggerating its good points". If someone doesn't like the story, or the characters, or the childhood arc, or thinks the game is a 6.8, that's completely up to them and I'm not going to tell them otherwise. But the idea that these are objective flaws that everyone should notice and complain about lest they want to be labelled 'dumb' for not being able to 'recognise' them is just ridiculous.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
What in the world am I even reading here. The so-called "experience" you're referring to is exactly what makes Graces more than an above average game thanks to the mixture of amazing gameplay, a simple story that conveys what it wants to convey without trying to dive into the typical OH SO DEEP areas that people seem to love for some reason these days, and the fun and likeable cast. Some aspects of it can be a little bit tedious, sure, but there's nothing that's so bad it outshines what's already really great about the game. Even you've been saying throughout this thread that the game is really fun and you've been loving it, so why go and contradict yourself here now?

And I hope you're just referring to the field maps with Xillia. I really do.

Edit: This is why numerical scores are just pants on head retarded and should forever be abolished.

That's a difference of opinion. Not many people will agree with you there which is why many portions of the review are subjective rather than objective, especially when it comes down to narrative elements and the fun factor in games. I recognize the story as average and the cast as so-so. GT saw differently and in a much more harsh light.

I'm not contradicting. I love the combat in the game and everything revolving around combat such as dualizing and eleth. I think you might be confusing with how I view the game as a player and as a reviewer. This in combination with how I love certain aspects of the game and hating the overall package of the game. I love this game because of the combat but the game is an average game because of its "age." Trust me when I say that I'm not being contradictory at all on how I view the game. I've discussed this in-depth with Aeana and Schala about my thoughts on the game. There are some, not fundamental, flaws in the game that sort of deter the experience. Once again, this is one of those subjective areas.

Fair enough; I don't disagree with your points regarding Graces. (Oh god, we're going to have this argument again. :lol)

For all of Graces' fetch quests (+EX Dungeon, Arena, etc), Xillia has its fair share of them too, and Xillia's environments devoid of any detail (especially having to traverse them again and again and again for Black Feathers) and (most of the time) 1 screen towns really don't do it any favours. Even the ports in Xillia are... well, they're the same but with some lighting differences and NPCs in different locations. But Xillia's style could probably be considered as comparable to other HD games, so... I guess people would be okay with it.

But I have a problem with how Xillia handled titles, cooking, and loot accumulation to build up shops. I like the shop build system in the game, but I don't care for the loot accumulation much because farming for materials feels obnoxious towards endgame. But on the other side of the coin, I can see why someone would dislike the shop system: if you don't level everything up every now and then, you're cut off from your supply line from items to armour to weapons. I hated how the game handled cooking and it essentially boiled down to "hey, buy the food from the restaurant, eat it, and it'll have an effect for X amount of battles". And titles were the worst since they're just achievements for grade or trophies.

Xillia's trophy set isn't even particularly engaging given that it's all grindy (use this attack 150 times, link with this person and have them use this 150 times, exploit enemies' weaknesses and kill them 1350 times (or 800; I don't remember), acquire 459 Black Feathers, etc) and boring.

Edit: While the two protagonist angle was an interesting choice for storytelling,
Milla's side was ultimately worse-off from Jude's side. Anyone who starts with Milla's side might feel like they're not getting the whole picture, which is unfortunate.

Though, I like Xillia... but I don't like how it treated some of its auxiliary systems, and it didn't feel as fulfilling as Graces did, even if I liked the cast and other parts of it. Also, TP/Free Run/Milla and Jude have a ton of Link Artes and everyone else doesn't, etc...

And we both knew Graces wasn't going to do well here. Xillia might have been the more palatable game to release in terms of presentation, especially since it's the most recent one.

We never argue Schala. We discuss. Rofl. Anyway, you're definitely right on all of those points. The thing is though it's not going to matter to gamers. It'll matter only to fans who see the changes with each iteration of the franchise. While I do believe that some comparisons have to be made between titles of the same franchise, Xillia is ultimately the better package as a game. Sure those systems in Xillia seems barebones when compared to Graces but the things is many people are going to review the game not using those 2 games but as a part of the games industry. Anyway, it just goes down to reviewing as a gamer or reviewing as a Tales follower. I hate using the word fan since Tales fans give people themselves a bad name. Ugh.


Fine, this bit is your opinion. I don't agree with it, but you can have it.


This is flat out stupid, and basically boils down to "I've decided that this is a flaw and one review site agrees with me, so if you don't agree with me then "you're dumb" and "not doing the devs a favour". Really?

I think you misunderstood on why I called people dumb. I'm saying that people who think Graces deserves a higher score is dumb. The points were essentially valid and the score reflected that. If they want to objectify a review based on their personal opinions of the game, it's absolutely mediocre. I'm not saying, if you don't agree with me then you're dumb. Not saying that at all. I'm saying the futility of arguing with something that is clearly correct in GT's eyes is dumb. Sorry for not clarifying. I reread it and I definitely see how you got that.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
It's not a bad score, sure, but I feel as if it's really underselling it because it implies that the minor flaws in the game are so bad that it makes what's great about it not worth it. One of the most important things a game should be judged on is whether or not its fun, and my god, Graces is as fun as it gets.

Even if one portion of it is excellent, the problem is that reviewers score based on the overall package/experience. If only aspect is good, it's only one aspect. Nothing more or less. It's a fundamental critiquing system and nothing can really be done about it. I've said it time and time again. If it was scoring just based on the combat it would get like a 9. The problem is that there are other factors to take into and as a result those parts make the overall experience of the game not as good. I don't agree with their analysis of the battles though. Not pleased at all.


Holy **** the
Parasite boss inside the Rockgagong is insane, when it splits into multiple parts there's almost nothing I can do

If you need help then have everyone in your party die except Cheria and yourself. Make yourself a random character and just keep moving around and dodge. Max out on full health and let Cheria slowly take them out as the AI against that boss is really stupid and will only chase down one character.
 
If you need help then have everyone in your party die except Cheria and yourself. Make yourself a random character and just keep moving around and dodge. Max out on full health and let Cheria slowly take them out as the AI against that boss is really stupid and will only chase down one character.

That hasn't worked at all, Cheria just gets killed cause inevitable one of them will cast a spell on her and she refuses to dodge.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
That hasn't worked at all, Cheria just gets killed cause inevitable one of them will cast a spell on her and she refuses to dodge.

Before you do that process everyone has to die except you, which can't be cheria. Find a time to res her and everyone will just follow you and not cheria.
 

Thoraxes

Member
Before you do that process everyone has to die except you, which can't be cheria. Find a time to res her and everyone will just follow you and not cheria.

All my dudes lived through it. I didn't have any trouble. I grouped em, forced mystic artes and blew them up.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
All my dudes lived through it. I didn't have any trouble. I grouped em, forced mystic artes and blew them up.

Lucky. I was screwed with being underleveled and I hadn't saved at all. It was live or quit the game for life. No joke.
 
Holy **** the
Parasite boss inside the Rockgagong is insane, when it splits into multiple parts there's almost nothing I can do

If you're still struggling, the easiest way to handle it (tip courtesy of Varion who saved me from eternal rage against it on Evil mode) is to get it down by enough HP so that a few more hits'll make it split, while building up your eres gauge (I should learn the english terms) until just before its full (if you have any Arcana bottles, make use of them if you want). Once its close to full, go all out and once it splits you should go into eres rise not long after, so take that time to just spam Asbel's move where he jumps, stabs his sword into the ground and is surrounded by electricity, over and over until eres rise is over. You should've killed enough of them by then that they're not a problem to completely wipe out.

Just incase my description of the move sucks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjKMZ6YBwI
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Some of my inn requests disappeared after chapter 6. I think it's story related. Am I fucked or am I fucked.
Like, you can't access them?

I completed the inn requests by the end of the game even when I left them if I didn't have materials in the Japanese version.

We never argue Schala. We discuss. Rofl. Anyway, you're definitely right on all of those points. The thing is though it's not going to matter to gamers. It'll matter only to fans who see the changes with each iteration of the franchise. While I do believe that some comparisons have to be made between titles of the same franchise, Xillia is ultimately the better package as a game. Sure those systems in Xillia seems barebones when compared to Graces but the things is many people are going to review the game not using those 2 games but as a part of the games industry. Anyway, it just goes down to reviewing as a gamer or reviewing as a Tales follower. I hate using the word fan since Tales fans give people themselves a bad name. Ugh.
The last time we all had a Xillia vs Graces debate it turned into a really really heavy discussion full of arguments, lol.

I just don't know if streamlining all the systems like Xillia did would appeal to many players, even if they aren't fans of the series. Aesthetics and narrative are only half of the product. Systems and battle make up the other half. When some of those things feel somewhat lacking, it doesn't feel like the overall package has the cohesion I'm looking for, you know what I mean?

I know the average player doesn't look for that sort of thing, but... a lack of cohesion bothers me sometimes.
 
If you're still struggling, the easiest way to handle it (tip courtesy of Varion who saved me from eternal rage against it on Evil mode) is to get it down by enough HP so that a few more hits'll make it split, while building up your eres gauge (I should learn the english terms) until just before its full (if you have any Arcana bottles, make use of them if you want). Once its close to full, go all out and once it splits you should go into eres rise not long after, so take that time to just spam Asbel's move where he jumps, stabs his sword into the ground and is surrounded by electricity, over and over until eres rise is over. You should've killed enough of them by then that they're not a problem to completely wipe out.

Just incase my description of the move sucks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjKMZ6YBwI

Seems like a good idea, the fight I kept restarting with him he starts with 50% gauge and I start with zero and I have no arcana bottles (never found any) so I'll have to fight some random battles to build it up before I fight him.
 

kewlmyc

Member
For those playing on hard, what level was your team at and what team did you have when facing
optional boss Byrce in Orien Wood
? Can't beat him with any team at around level 34-37, and not sure if I should either train more or
wait till later in the game
.
 
I can failing terribly on bosses on Hard. Took me three attempts to beat
Nova Wolf
. Can't wait to unlock the harder difficulties!
 

Varion

Member
For those playing on hard, what level was your team at and what team did you have when facing
optional boss Byrce in Orien Wood
? Can't beat him with any team at around level 34-37, and not sure if I should either train more or
wait till later in the game
.
Just wait until later in the game. He's a bitch.
 

Neki

Member
Okay, so.... Is this better than Vesperia?
Combat is better than Vesperia. I really like the Graces F system, feels good, I do miss linking together battles from Vesperia though. So far, I think the story and characters are a little stronger in Vesperia. I feel like there's a lot more back tracking in Graces then Vesperia too. Though I am thankful there are no real child characters like Karol in this game though, rofl.
 

Kandrick

GAF's Ed McMahon
Combat is better than Vesperia. I really like the Graces F system, feels good, I do miss linking together battles from Vesperia though. So far, I think the story and characters are a little stronger in Vesperia. I feel like there's a lot more back tracking in Graces then Vesperia too. Though I am thankful there are no real child characters like Karol in this game though, rofl.

Vesperia cast was better. No doubts about that. Even Karol gets better by the end. Felt more like a tight group. In Graces, they are weird, i don't know how to say it. It's why Pascal looks so crazy, because she sticks out like a sore thumb ( Pascal is awesome! ), since the other characters have like no personality.

The take on the combat in Graces is more interesting though, as others have said.
 

Neki

Member
What's with the Karol haters? He was good in battle especially as a backup healer.

I just didn't like his personality for a huge part of the game, hence why I never used him in battle, loool. Though the childhood arc gave me my fill of child characters for all of Graces. I think Vesperia had really good character development (besides Repede, lol) which is why it was really enjoyable story wise.
 

Bladenic

Member
Okay, so.... Is this better than Vesperia?

No way. I'm loving this game but Vesperia was better in all but battle system and some of the sub-systems.

That being said, I can't put this game down. Invading
Barona Castle now. Malik fight was awesome. Richard is super evil.
 
I've got to stop reading this thread. The spoilers are too tempting. And
The interior of Wallbridge was soo confusing to me for some reason. Took me nearly n hour to find the levers and such. It was awful. And I suddenly don't like Richard.....
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Thanks for all the responses. I've been on a huge action RPG kick lately.

(I kept Karol on the bench too btw)

Seems like its worth a run either way.
 

Varion

Member
I've got to stop reading this thread. The spoilers are too tempting. And
The interior of Wallbridge was soo confusing to me for some reason. Took me nearly n hour to find the levers and such. It was awful. And I suddenly don't like Richard.....
I've played the game about 4 times now. I get lost there every single time.
 
I've got to stop reading this thread. The spoilers are too tempting. And
The interior of Wallbridge was soo confusing to me for some reason. Took me nearly n hour to find the levers and such. It was awful. And I suddenly don't like Richard.....

Yup, I spent about an hour and a half in there first time wondering where on earth I was going.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Are all cashables just for selling or should I hold on to some?
I usually just held on to most stuff until the end of the game in case I needed to synth something for profit or to have something worth a lot.

I've got to stop reading this thread. The spoilers are too tempting. And
The interior of Wallbridge was soo confusing to me for some reason. Took me nearly n hour to find the levers and such. It was awful. And I suddenly don't like Richard.....
I dislike that place a lot too. I got lost there during both my playthroughs.
 
I've got to stop reading this thread. The spoilers are too tempting. And
The interior of Wallbridge was soo confusing to me for some reason. Took me nearly n hour to find the levers and such. It was awful. And I suddenly don't like Richard.....
lol thank god I'm not an idiot and others are having the issue, took me an hour to get outa there.
 

kewlmyc

Member
Just wait until later in the game. He's a bitch.

I decided to be a coward and faced him on normal. He was still a pain in the ass. Oh well, I'll face him fair and square on my second playthrough once I have a feel for how each character plays.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Am I the only one that HAS to 5 star a title before equipping a new one? And doing them in order?
I didn't do them in order because titles would show up and ruin my order sometimes. But yeah, I always shot for 5-stars. I just let the menu handle it most of the time.

From my second (unfinished) playthrough, (way more titles at the bottom; Asbel has ITE equipped, iirc):

q8vpk.jpg
 
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