I played the snes version of Phantasia but didn't finish it so I didn't include it.
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Tales of Graces f is the best Tales of... game I've played
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I played the snes version of Phantasia but didn't finish it so I didn't include it.
CielTynave
Member
Seems more like they feel the quality of a game is dependent on the story/characters and not... y'know, actual game play and mechanics.
TalesOfWin
Banned
nope the story in graces is pretty awful and dull.
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm not really sure how I feel about Tales of Graces.
The battle system handidly dismantles any other tales games i've played, all aspects related to it including titles are a lot better than previous games as well.
Now usually i'm very much gameplay first, other fluff second but with JRPGs there's a bit of a problem here, one derived from the games length, it's a bit of an ordeal to push through 40 odd hours at a minimum just because of a good battle system (for me at least) which is why plot, characters and world design plays a bigger role in my overall enjoyment here than other games.
Now last time I played the game a few weeks back I just hit the snowy continent of the map, about 15 hours in maybe and I just can't muster the drive to push onwards with the knowledge of how much is left. The battle system may be great but when everything else around it is relatively weak it deals quite a blow to the enjoyment factor.
Music is piss, hilarious that the game came with a soundtrack CD, there's nothing worthwhile here!
The plot is middling so far, characters aren't actually as bad as I was led to believe, the interactions they have with each other is actually quite humorous at times (post battle scenes for example) and Pascal is delightfully kooky but when it comes to the serious side of the plot they all come across dull in more ways than one.
Dungeon design is a mess from the few i've been in, either linear to a fault or maze like in identical rooms, someone tell these guys you can have a happy medium.
So I don't think the game is bad but it doesn't do much to motivate me onwards, meanwhile while Vesperia has a weaker battle system I much prefer it on its overall strength.
Basically I need the Graces battle system surrounded by stronger aspects in all other areas to carry me through the many hours required to reach the finish line.
Also Hubert looks like a goof, it distracts me so very much.
The battle system handidly dismantles any other tales games i've played, all aspects related to it including titles are a lot better than previous games as well.
Now usually i'm very much gameplay first, other fluff second but with JRPGs there's a bit of a problem here, one derived from the games length, it's a bit of an ordeal to push through 40 odd hours at a minimum just because of a good battle system (for me at least) which is why plot, characters and world design plays a bigger role in my overall enjoyment here than other games.
Now last time I played the game a few weeks back I just hit the snowy continent of the map, about 15 hours in maybe and I just can't muster the drive to push onwards with the knowledge of how much is left. The battle system may be great but when everything else around it is relatively weak it deals quite a blow to the enjoyment factor.
Music is piss, hilarious that the game came with a soundtrack CD, there's nothing worthwhile here!
The plot is middling so far, characters aren't actually as bad as I was led to believe, the interactions they have with each other is actually quite humorous at times (post battle scenes for example) and Pascal is delightfully kooky but when it comes to the serious side of the plot they all come across dull in more ways than one.
Dungeon design is a mess from the few i've been in, either linear to a fault or maze like in identical rooms, someone tell these guys you can have a happy medium.
So I don't think the game is bad but it doesn't do much to motivate me onwards, meanwhile while Vesperia has a weaker battle system I much prefer it on its overall strength.
Basically I need the Graces battle system surrounded by stronger aspects in all other areas to carry me through the many hours required to reach the finish line.
Also Hubert looks like a goof, it distracts me so very much.
Wrong. I've played a lot of games where I enjoy them due to strong gameplay/progression/etc while not caring much for the story/dialogue/plot/lore. The Last Remnant, even Star Ocean 4. FFXIII too. But Graces is so unbelievably bad...
Yeah
It's more that the mechanics of Tales of Graces are good but hardly some transcendent, unassailable beacon of quality, and that eventually, story and characters become so bad that they actually detract from the experience, rather than being a complete zero non-factor the way they are in most JRPGs that are played exclusively for their gameplay and mechanics.
I'm not seeing what's stupid about the reasoning behind Sophie being how she is provided it actually makes sense within the world the writer created, which it does but you seem to ignore because you don't like it. Sophie isn't some joke character who is only cute for the sake of being cute, she is an innocent character that the main character wants to protect and the single link that unites Hubert, Cheria, Richard (for a minute), and Asbel when they get older. The game's central Tales of theme is "Know the Strength to Protect" or something like that and it fits. It wouldn't be the same if Sophie knew everything. She would of probably just left the flower bed earlier in the game, went straight to Lambda in the Catacombs and blew herself up and ended the game 60+ hours earlier if that happened.
And Disgaea having their characters designed like that but with older ages is what they wanted to do, don't see the problem.
I think this whole gameplay/story preference arguments that are always brought up in Graces threads is simplifying things a bit too much. I didn't like Graces but that doesn't mean I put up with shit game mechanics as long as I enjoy the story. There are plenty of games with quite mediocre stories that I absolutely adore.
I just hold a different opinion than some people who enjoyed Graces gameplay more than other Tales games. Yeah I liked it. I really liked it, but I also really liked the other Tales games system in this regard so I can't say it's among my favorites simply for that reason alone. I'm not saying anybody else is wrong at all, these are just opinions in the end.
That's a good way to put it.
Yea this is the way I feel about most JRPG's to be honest. I just ignore the story and characters if they aren't great and instead get addicted to the level grind.
Not sure about others but that would apply to me when it comes to RPGs. I really like Graces f, well most of the Tales of games in general, primarily for their overall plot and character developments than their gameplay systems although I enjoy the gameplay of these games as well provided I'm not fighting a boss. Fighting bosses in these games suck.
I prefer Sophie. I like that she can learn some of the other member's moves and she fights with her fists. She does good damage and she can heal in a pinch. I pretty much made her my post game party leader.
Herein lies the basis of the disagreement, since for some people, the mechanics ARE that good. And the story/characters don't detract that much.
SlasherJPC
Banned
This thread reminded me I don't own Tales of Vesperia and 2 I barely played it. Just ordered a copy
Xilium
Member
Abyss is my personal favorite in terms of characters and story with a decent combat system (apparently that game is very divisive) but Vesperia is probably objectively the best in terms of a quality overall package. It's the one I would recommend to someone that has yet to play a Tales of... game anyway.
Graces/f has good combat mechanics and an ok leveling system (a little tedious) but pretty weak everything else imo.
Graces/f has good combat mechanics and an ok leveling system (a little tedious) but pretty weak everything else imo.
I gotta say, this trend of "the characters in Graces are awful, I hate it. By the way, Symphonia is my favorite" is blowing my mind. I don't like any character in Graces besides maybe Malik, but I'll take all of them over Lloyd and Colette. I want to hate them to death.
Yeah. I'm near the start of Graces, and I played Symphonia to the end back then. I keep wondering when Asbel becomes as horrible as everyone says. So far he just seems bland (and somewhat annoying as a child) rather than Lloyd's level of grating annoyingness.
Abyss is divisive? I see nothing but extreme love for that game like 80% of the time along with Vesperia and Symphonia. Vesperia ends kind of weakly though.
Nocturnowl
Member
I get the feeling that 80% of us from PAL regions arriving late to the party bring the opposite of extreme love for Abyss, i'm not one who roams around all Tales related threads but i'm pretty sure it's divisive around here.
Xilium
Member
Maybe polarizing is a better word. Abyss is either near the top of people's list or near the very bottom. People seem to have strong feelings towards that game one way or the other.
Well, yeah. Opinions, etc, whether I disagree with them or not. But that's a little more even-handed than the idea that people either like/love Tales of Graces or they must be willing to put up with shitty mechanics for good story/characters or they must judge the quality of a game based on the writing alone, or whatever.
pancakesandsex
Member
It's a really good game too. Nice spritework and soundtrack. Characters are endearing, Tytree in particular. 3rd best tales combat system (Destiny 2 ps2 > Graces > Rebirth > the rest.)
CLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIRE!
Die Squirrel Die
Member
I just picked up my NG+ save for the first time in months over the last few days, but dammit I just messed up and permantantly missed 2 skits. I was going for a 100% playthrough. Why isn't there a grade option to keep all completed skits?
Now to try and beat this Magic Carta bastard.
Now to try and beat this Magic Carta bastard.
Abyss is my favourite, but I don't half see fans constantly bitching about the characters and the fonon terminology. Common complaints seems to be
- Luke is either a prick or awesome at the beginning, but turns into a decent or pansy character after his change, depending on which personality you liked more.
- The main party not being buddy buddy, which I honestly found new and fun.
- The Fonon terminology. While the game does explain all aspects of it, your often told about a certain term once and have to remember what it exactly means and how it link to various other terms throughout the story. Most situations in the story is resolved using this terminology, so it makes little to no sense if someone forgot, say, what an Isofon is, leading to people saying the story is technobabble crap.
- Van's plan was ridiculous, even more so if you don't understand the terminolgy in how he plans to achieve it.
- Sidequests. But fuck, I'll agree with them on this one. Such damn small windows to complete most of them. Even more annoying when you missed out on a costume, or got half way through one to realise you can't go further cuz you didn't activate a certain scene earlier.
- Natalia being a "bitch", Anise being a hypocrite, Mieu being "annoying".
Edit: - Also, the backtracking. Especially in the 3rd part. Your'e basically revising old towns and dungeons constantly.
- The length. I clocked in around 80-90 hours. Could easily see that as an intimidating aspect.
I disagree with most of the complaints, but that's probably due to my bias. Definitely wouldn't recommend it to first time players though. I could easily see casual players being overwhelmed...
Funny this thread popped up now, considering I just beat the last boss of this game (main arc) late last night.
Ignoring post-game warm feelings that I always get when complete a lengthy game like this, I'll try to sketch out some of my thoughts.
Gameplay is absolutely great. I'm sure no one can dispute this. Several unique characters all with their own fighting styles, battle plans, ways of canceling attacks, drawbacks and pluses makes this feel almost a complex as a fighting game system at times and puts it at (in my experience) the top of RPG battle systems when it comes to fun.
Graphics are serviceable, which is to be expected of a Wii game ported to the HD generation of consoles. Some of the art in the game is real nice, but few and far between. Anime sequences are... sketchy at best.
Music is okay. A couple of standout tracks here and there, but most of it just blends into the background while fitting the mood relatively well.
Voice acting is all over the place. Sometimes it seems fitting, but other times it's really weirdly delivered, or you can here the voice actors staggering their sentences to match the lip-synch. Some characters are better acted than others, though, with Richard standing out as probably the worst. They did pretty good considering the source material, though.
Story is pretty much trash. Characters are kind of all over the place. It reminds me of a lot of mid-80s and 90s RPGs in feel, which isn't bad every now and again, but I feel it's a a swing and a miss. Also, maybe it's my knowledge of tropes in games like this but
I haven't played much of the Tales of... series overall, but compared to the others I've played partially or all the way through, I'd say that it's Vesperia > Symphonia > Graces > Abyss so far for me, but I've barely started Abyss and am probably only a quarter of the way through Symphonia so my opinion might be bad.
Ignoring post-game warm feelings that I always get when complete a lengthy game like this, I'll try to sketch out some of my thoughts.
Gameplay is absolutely great. I'm sure no one can dispute this. Several unique characters all with their own fighting styles, battle plans, ways of canceling attacks, drawbacks and pluses makes this feel almost a complex as a fighting game system at times and puts it at (in my experience) the top of RPG battle systems when it comes to fun.
Graphics are serviceable, which is to be expected of a Wii game ported to the HD generation of consoles. Some of the art in the game is real nice, but few and far between. Anime sequences are... sketchy at best.
Music is okay. A couple of standout tracks here and there, but most of it just blends into the background while fitting the mood relatively well.
Voice acting is all over the place. Sometimes it seems fitting, but other times it's really weirdly delivered, or you can here the voice actors staggering their sentences to match the lip-synch. Some characters are better acted than others, though, with Richard standing out as probably the worst. They did pretty good considering the source material, though.
Story is pretty much trash. Characters are kind of all over the place. It reminds me of a lot of mid-80s and 90s RPGs in feel, which isn't bad every now and again, but I feel it's a a swing and a miss. Also, maybe it's my knowledge of tropes in games like this but
is there anyone who didn't guess Sophie was some kind of artificial human based on the way she acted?
I haven't played much of the Tales of... series overall, but compared to the others I've played partially or all the way through, I'd say that it's Vesperia > Symphonia > Graces > Abyss so far for me, but I've barely started Abyss and am probably only a quarter of the way through Symphonia so my opinion might be bad.
"I don't get why people like this game!"
Proceeds to only talk about narrative elements. Lol.
Sohter.Nura
Member
I just finished Tog as of recently and while I liked it a bunch, you really should play Tales of Vesperia, like so many others are suggesting.
Probably is divisive here but I'm not sure. I don't check the Tales of thread here too much, I was going by my experience with other communities.
Wow, didn't know but I probably could take a gander why though, lol.
Iirc it was done by IG, right? Xillia will have 100x better animation. I can promise you that.
Who did Xillia? Ufotable?
Aww hell yeah.
Ufotable is amazing at what they do.
Eternia isn't perfect but it has the best main character in the entire franchise:
Man I remember having this game. I was 13 I think and I got stuck sometime after the start of the second disk. I ended up having to sell the game shortly thereafter to buy something I've forgotten now.
I shall never beat it because I can't find a ps1 copy these days and the psp release never happened in north america apparently.
PSP's are region free. Just import from Europe... pretty sure it's going quite cheap.
Do Ufotable do the cutscenes and stuff in Xillia as well?
Uh, how do I import this from the Euros? I know a bunch of sites to import stuff from Japan but not Europe.
I would like to cop a pristine copy for mah shelf.
I don't feel predictable character development, or development from a flaw to something not particularly interesting, makes it not character development though. It's sparse, but it exists, which is more than I can say for much of SO4's cast.
And building on things that are disingenuous, I feel like it's similarly disingenuous to ignore the writing in optional things. I don't understand how Star Ocean 4 can be considered better than Graces or at the same level, with the caveat of ignoring like, the other half of the game's content. I don't think "out of sight, out of mind" justifies anything unless we're saying all optional content doesn't count regardless of whether it makes a positive or negative contribution to the writing and characterization. I'm speaking from the point of view of a rather typical (J)RPG player who does much or all of the optional stuff, and from that perspective I can't say Graces is on the same level or lower than Star Ocean 4, even if its not particularly good itself.
And I feel like Yuri is a pretty shallow character to be honest, but it works for him and their stated intentions. He doesn't have to be more than one-note to me.
For Xillia and Xillia 2, yes.
Oh hell yes. I just know I'm gonna like Xillia more than Vesperia (my second fav) at least, just know it.
I don't like any of the characters in Rebirth, but then you knew that. I especially dislike Eugene, Mao and Annie. Veigue goes without saying because honestly, if you guys think Asbel's obsession with protecting his friends is annoying, you haven't seen anything until you've seen Veigue's obsession with Claire.
I totally agree, there's not a big difference between SO4 and Graces characters, they are unbearable in both games.
This is valid to all the Tales games. This is why I laugh at people saying Luke of Abyss goes through a character arc. Luke doesn't have a character arc, he goes from a trope to another one, it's shitty fanfic writing. I feel sorry for the translators who have to adapt these garbage scripts.
Grrr.....well I've heard that Graces f is actually one of the weaker Tales games...
but still, Vesperia >>>
Yeah he's a good example of a mostly static character. I'm not saying he's 100% the same person at the beginning and end of the game, but it's pretty close.
pancakesandsex
Member
I rather liked the dynamic between Tytree and Hilda. Those 2 really brought the cast together in my eyes.
TalesOfWin
Banned
Tales of Graces is only 4th or 5th on my best of Tales list. But it's still a good game.