Tales of Symphonia Chronicles |OT| 60FPS? I lied. Its actually 30FPS
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TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Damn, that stinks.
What good is a last gen HD game with 30fps? That shouldn't happen.
Even Tales of Graces was 60fps and Xilia at least had combat at 60fps.
Vesperia looked the best and that was 60 on the PS4, right?
Bad port.
I hope people bitching about it will get Namco to release a patch, but they've never really patched anything outside of the Wii version of Graces having some gamebreaking bugs, so the chances are real slim.
It's a "good" port but the problem is that for being a definitive version of the game, they really shouldn't be using the 30FPS PS2 version as a base, or at least use it as a base and fix the framerate to match the GC version's.
It's really dumb. The textures could have been touched up more too. I'm also noticing a few small things like the windows styles option being gone or not giving an option of right stick to shortcuts instead of sticking with PS2 version's L2 + R2.
Yeah, it should've been like RE4 where they based it off GC and put in PS2 extras. Even though RE4 was weird in that it seems they more accurately did BOTH: they straight ported the Wii version, and also straight ported the PS2 version's content. Not even just FMVs (which I can understand if they went cheap there) but you can tell the Ada Missions looked worse than the same areas in the main game.
EDIT: Which might actually highlight an issue here: Symphonia didn't cleanly segregate the content, it was all part of the game, so they may've felt a need to make a call there.
EDIT: Which might actually highlight an issue here: Symphonia didn't cleanly segregate the content, it was all part of the game, so they may've felt a need to make a call there.
It was clearly a rushed port with some quick extras that were unfinished from the GC version (Raine's mystic arte, Altamira casino), with some new stuff being added like new Production IG cutscenes.
Abyss used the same engine and ran at 60FPS, though borrowed the loading times from the Symphonia PS2 port. So everyone who complains about the loading in Abyss can blame the bad Symphonia port for that.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I'm not tech wizard but I do remember that the PS2's hardware was weaker than GC.
It's understandable why they chose the PS2 version as a base, but for an HD port AND a game that celebrates the anniversary, the fact that they couldn't add a few more battle shortcuts or make it 60FPS is really disappointing.
But hey we got new cut-ins and some new costumes!~.............
The PS2 version is locked at 30FPS. Same thing happened with Shadow of the Collossus HD.
If I remember correctly, the game (SOTC) was not designed to run at 60FPS and if you force it then a bunch of things are completely broken. Maybe they did the same thing when they ported TOS to the PS2. I don't know how feasible it is to open up the code base and add the PS2 content to the gamecube version. It might not even be possible. Remember, these games were developed a decade ago. Maybe someone who has more technical knowledge can respond.
Definitely, the PS2 version really taxes the hardware and that is at 30FPS with massive frame drops.
It's pretty clear that Chronicles is being used as a minimal effort stopgap. They want to do one console Tales game a year, and they can't create one game in a year - so they throw out Chronicles for 2013 in Japan as the main focus goes to Zestiria to shape that up for a later 2014 release(?). Bandai Namco Games USA/EU is taking the opportunity to catch up a little to the Japanese releases, as Zestiria should be roughly a one year delay - whereas Xillia and Xillia 2 are two years removed from their Japanese release.
It's also very likely Zestiria will have a sequel (or two) to recycle assets to maintain pace. And then after Zestiria and whatever followups finish, clearly it will be time for Tales of Vesperia Chronicles to stopgap before the next Tales storyline after that.
It's also very likely Zestiria will have a sequel (or two) to recycle assets to maintain pace. And then after Zestiria and whatever followups finish, clearly it will be time for Tales of Vesperia Chronicles to stopgap before the next Tales storyline after that.
Yeah it's likely recoding it would have been a pain in the ass because of how they designed it prior.
Still disappointing and I'm still going to call them out for it because it's abysmal for an HD port.
At least there's no reasonable way they can mess up a ToV port later on, the PS3 port's really good + has some great extras. Not sure how the US/EU branch will approach localizing that when the time comes since they added quite a bit of voiced content.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Really contemplating skipping this.
I did beat the first one on GC (since it was like the only JRPG for that system at the time!) and the sequel is "meh."
Really, I'm wasting money on a collection that'll never be played all the way trough, when I think about it.
All I need is Tropical Freeze and I'm already really tight on my budget.
Alright, I made my decision: canceling preorder tomorrow!
Note to Bamco:
I did beat the first one on GC (since it was like the only JRPG for that system at the time!) and the sequel is "meh."
Really, I'm wasting money on a collection that'll never be played all the way trough, when I think about it.
All I need is Tropical Freeze and I'm already really tight on my budget.
Alright, I made my decision: canceling preorder tomorrow!
Note to Bamco:
would've bought it if it was 60fps!
I think SotC may've been requested to be locked at 30 FPS, if it's not a technical issue that Bluepoint couldn't overcome then it's possible Team Ico really did feel it was necessary for the game's feel. And hell at least it's a step above the PS2 version still FPS-wise.
I find it less likely it'd break ToS though given it was 60 FPS on GC, would've been nice if they pushed further to get 60 FPS rather than settle for a straight port even if the PS2 version was the base instead of GC. Doubly so if they could've pushed for 1080p too, probably would've needed Hexadrive on that or something though.
I find it less likely it'd break ToS though given it was 60 FPS on GC, would've been nice if they pushed further to get 60 FPS rather than settle for a straight port even if the PS2 version was the base instead of GC. Doubly so if they could've pushed for 1080p too, probably would've needed Hexadrive on that or something though.
Just out of curiosity, how does ToS PS2 run on emulator? Can it be forced to run 60FPS? Not that actual porting would be as "easy" as changing the framerate is on an emulator, but just curious.
EDIT: I guess it can't since you'd have to make codes for it, and I don't think there's one and can't find one for ToS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnAWF75faU
Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix looks really cool with 60FPS though! (There's a download to the 60FPS video in the Youtube link)
EDIT: I guess it can't since you'd have to make codes for it, and I don't think there's one and can't find one for ToS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnAWF75faU
Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix looks really cool with 60FPS though! (There's a download to the 60FPS video in the Youtube link)
Lol, amazing thread title.
Gonna pass on this till it's discount bin because of the whole 30 FPS thing though. I still own a GC copy.
Hopefully it's still as enjoyable for people today as it was for me back in 2004. I really loved the grand scope of the whole story and miss that sense of scale in present Tales games.
Gonna pass on this till it's discount bin because of the whole 30 FPS thing though. I still own a GC copy.
Hopefully it's still as enjoyable for people today as it was for me back in 2004. I really loved the grand scope of the whole story and miss that sense of scale in present Tales games.
zerokoolpsx
Member
Did they promise it was at 60 fps? Damn liars.... hehehehehe.
Shame Bandai couldn't crank it to 60 fps. Skipping this too.
Shame Bandai couldn't crank it to 60 fps. Skipping this too.
Frankly that's probably the best reason to get the package for anyone who still has access to a GC and a copy of that game. Those are some pretty solid extras, especially after Xillia.
Makoto Yuki
Banned
So Bamco is trying to turn Tales of series into the JRPG equivalent of Call of Duty through yearly releases. I don't know how to feel about that.
Dragon1893
Member
So someone who has only played Xillia and loved it will like this right?
Most likely, though it has some outdated mechanics that were improved in later entries including Xillia.
It's similar but obviously dated but it is still fun to play IMO.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
It makes me feel like not day 1-ing future Tales of games. Definitely not doing it for Xillia 2.
polyh3dron
Banned
lol @ Namco downgrading a GameCube port.
I'll just stick to the GameCube version I guess.
I'll just stick to the GameCube version I guess.
But Xillia 2 is so much better than Xillia 1 tho.
But it's a port of a PS2 port! They just kept the crappy part about that port.
Xillia 2 is worth playing day 1 unless you beat Xillia 1 the week before. If you did your head might explode due to all the asset reuse.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Xillia was a disappointment for me; 2 would have to be exponentially better for me to consider a day 1.
What disappointed you from Xillia?
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Neither a good story/characters (ToS is my favorite, but that might be due to the "First Syndrome") nor gameplay that was better than Graces were present in Xillia.
all imo of course
The story in X2 is probably the best in the series and it takes Xillia's battle system and adds a few things from Graces like sidestep and weakness system. The new main character is also pretty much Dante gameplay wise. So that's a plus.
So it might be to your taste. For me, I didn't think Xillia had the best story/characters but I felt it was one of the better ones, and I felt Graces is the best 3D Tales gameplay wise.
You and tons of others will probably hate the debt system though.
I am quite excited on xillia 2's story. I have seen lots of people praising the story. I thought xillia 1's story wasn't really good.
I'm with you brother! 30fps is disappointing but I love Symphonia too much to not get it.
I remember thinking about this back when I was 12. "Man how great would it be if they release an HD version of this one day."
I was so happy when they announced it! Literally a dream come true for me.
The cast was mostly good (IMO) and the story was serviceable until the game reaches the last act which is almost a tradition in all Tales of Games to go down. It even uses some cliches from Symphonia and other Tales of Games in order to show it's an anniversary game. The game lows are mostly the assets being reused, the link system that could be fleshed out a bit better, the lack of extra content and the bosses breaking out of combo which was pretty BS.
I had more fun with Xillia's gameplay than Graces F by the end. (Unpopular opinion I know)
LOL Despite my negativity towards the shoddy port I'm still getting the CE.
EDIT: I was 14 when Symphonia was released here. I feel old.
For X2, unfortunately there's still asset reusing, and bosses still sort of break out of combos but have a harder time doing so if you use the weakness system...so kind of a compromise but on harder difficulties it might as well not be there imo.
Link system is better fleshed out, and has some weaker generic ones, and there's quite a few of extras and sidequests in X2 now.
I actually enjoyed battles in Xillia better than Graces initially because I had more artes to play with and it was speedy as hell. But there was the boss problem, Lilium Orb sucked compared to titles, and multiplayer/cooking/etc wasn't great either.
Yeah I'm posting pics of the CE when I get it, and will probably stream it for a few days.
EDIT: I was 12 years old when ToS came out. :v
Booty Patrol
Banned
Namco didn't try with this. Why bother with a rereleasing the game if you aren't going to fix anything other than the resolution?
I'll stick with my non-player's choice Gamecube copy of the game.
I'll stick with my non-player's choice Gamecube copy of the game.
The asset reusing was a given afterall it's set on the same world but there are still some improvements .
The boss problem on Xillia 2 while its still there it is more manageable.
The Link System my main issue is how it affects MP but in the end it is a fun system and it is improved on X2 so its all good.
Leveling up was super easy on Xillia so I finished the game with my Lilium Orbs maxed out on my first run. X2 has the same idea of the LO but better implemented unless my eyes deceive me.
I believe the classic Cameo Battles are also back on Xillia 2
The Debt System I know about it and I dont feel so bothered by it
The story seems more mature and also hope they keep the blood for the US release.
Booty Patrol
Banned
Is Xillia 2 still coming out in the Summer? I hope this release didn't delay their plans.
My guess would be August tbh.
zerokoolpsx
Member
No official release date for it other than 2014.
They are probably waiting to see if there's a FF game being released late this year so they can release it at the same time. ;p
If they're sane, summer 2014 would be ideal.
Sooo... did they choose to uprez the PS2 version instead of the GameCube version because they were more familiar with PS2, and then choose to uprez the sequel at some later point? Because the sequel is on the Wii, aka the GameCube Turbo. Seems like it would've been easier to work on two very similar games rather than introducing a mess of broken PS2 code to deal with for no apparent reason.
I mean, if they can get a Wii game to run on PS3, then it should be essentially effortless to make it's same-engine lower-spec GameCube predecessor run as well, shouldn't it? Adding a PS2 port to a Wii port is doubling their workload. Even the PS2 extras were just "cutting room floor" material from the GameCube version. It shouldn't have been hard to reinsert them in a GameCube-to-PS3 port.
That's why I can only figure that they started this project in the laziest way possible, with just a port of the PS2 version. When it turned out badly (30fps @ 720p, with broken effects) they threw another game at the project as a "bonus feature", but if they had put that effort in from the start and went to the source, it'd probably be running a lot better.
I mean, if they can get a Wii game to run on PS3, then it should be essentially effortless to make it's same-engine lower-spec GameCube predecessor run as well, shouldn't it? Adding a PS2 port to a Wii port is doubling their workload. Even the PS2 extras were just "cutting room floor" material from the GameCube version. It shouldn't have been hard to reinsert them in a GameCube-to-PS3 port.
That's why I can only figure that they started this project in the laziest way possible, with just a port of the PS2 version. When it turned out badly (30fps @ 720p, with broken effects) they threw another game at the project as a "bonus feature", but if they had put that effort in from the start and went to the source, it'd probably be running a lot better.
They have no excuse IMO look at how RE4 Wii Edition got the Ps2 content with GC assets. It simply shows how lazy Namco is doing ports.
The GC version lacks the stuff added in the PS2 version, but at least it runs wonderfully smoothly. GC superior version?
I just don't understand why they didn't take the time to make sure the game would run at 60FPS... What is the point of an HD version if it comes with a technical downgrade?
Also, seriously, all these HD re-releases? It's just a way to grab cash. It's nice and shiny, but I'd rather have a better game (or new games, for that matter) than a prettier game, thank you.
I just don't understand why they didn't take the time to make sure the game would run at 60FPS... What is the point of an HD version if it comes with a technical downgrade?
Also, seriously, all these HD re-releases? It's just a way to grab cash. It's nice and shiny, but I'd rather have a better game (or new games, for that matter) than a prettier game, thank you.
Barrow Roll
Member
What exactly is this Swiss Widescreen Hack? I only know of the Widescreen Hack on Dolphin's graphics settings.
On topic...this port is looking pretty rough. I mean, the original game isn't much of a looker either when you get up real close to the character models, but at least it ran at 60 fps. They should have gone the RE4 Wii Edition route, take the better looking GCN version (in this case, better framerate), and include all PS2 extras. A straight port of the technically inferior PS2 version is pretty lame.
I took some comparison shots in Dolphin just for fun. 4x Internal Resolution,16x CSAA, widescreen hack, downsampled to 720p for easy comparison. I don't have the same expectations for a PS3 port, but I'd at least like 1080p. It's not like TOS is pushing tons of polygons and effects. Whenever I revisit this game, it'll be the 60 fps GCN version on Dolphin.
And before someone asks about the weird double vision in the second screenshot, it's a graphical effect from the original GCN game that's exacerbated when rendering at a higher resolution. From the Dolphin Wiki:
Guess they removed this blur technique for the PS3 version, so it at least has that going for it. Eye textures also look better. Really miss the outlines though.
One more screenshot from the first village. The game can still look quite nice at times.
graywolf323
Member
Namco USA should catch up by giving us Tales of Vesperia PS3 >_>
was originally going to pick this up but will probably give it a miss.
completed the first one on gamecube and played the second game which is the only tales games that I could not get in to.
from looking at changes from the gamecube version there does not seem to be much changed and a downgrade the framerate department.
seems Namco wasted this one to get a quick buck.
completed the first one on gamecube and played the second game which is the only tales games that I could not get in to.
from looking at changes from the gamecube version there does not seem to be much changed and a downgrade the framerate department.
seems Namco wasted this one to get a quick buck.
I have the CE on pre-order through amazon, but seeing that the regular version is going for only 39.99 i'm contemplating on rather I should keep this $100 order or not... especially when i'm not sure i'd even finish this game.
I do like the art style and RPGs in general, just haven't dug deep into a Tales game before. Wonder if buying this is the right choice...
I do like the art style and RPGs in general, just haven't dug deep into a Tales game before. Wonder if buying this is the right choice...
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