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Team Bondi's L.A. NOIRE |OT| Watchin' Faces, Solvin' Cases

low-G said:
There's a lot of people that were never gonna want this kind of game, and many of those people don't even know what they want. So whenever a super highly acclaimed and extremely good game comes out people all pick it up and some end up hating it.

It's especially contentious when the game is so different from the average game, deals with topics much more maturely than 99.99% of games, and virtually zero concessions were made to appeal to anyone other than the target audience.

It reflects on the tastes of the consumer, as all opinions do. Not on the quality of the game.

thanks for bringing it to my attention what an immature, gullible moron i am - that'll teach me to question things like why a '40's era l.a.p.d. has no forensics unit...

&, btw: highly acclaimed =/= extremely good. only extremely popular. according to you, 'extremely good' simply reflects on your particular consumer opinion, not on the quality of the game...
 

Cheech

Member
beastmode said:
I got a PS3 and an Xbox. Which console is better for this game? I'm leaning toward PS3 because it has an excluuusive case and isn't spread out over 3 disks, but most games on both platforms look slightly better on Xbox. Halp?

If you have a fat PS3, get it on 360. Trust me on this. I have a later fat build (40 gig), and it sounds like a hair dryer. Something about this game really pushes the hardware, to the point where the fans go full blast frequently and for extended periods. It has never done this for any other game.

It is so annoying, I would gladly trade somebody for the 360 version after I complete the game if they want to check it out.
 

Cheech

Member
Mik2121 said:
Man.. the backlash against this game is horrible. I really enjoyed it, even though it definitely had it's flaws. But saying it's absolutely boring and whatnot... just sounds like a bit too much, to me.

Oh well :/

I think some of the game's backlash is not necessarily due to the game itself.

It's really going to appeal to people who love Noir, and while I can see some appeal outside of that, it's going to be hard to overcome. It's like hating westerns, but then being surprised that you didn't like Red Dead.

Personally, I dig the shit out of it. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's moved ahead of Portal 2 for my GOTY. However, LA Confidential is one of my favorite semi-recent movies, so there you go.

My only regret is there was no PC version, and being forced to play this awesome game on 6 year old hardware. You're killing me, Rockstar.
 

Acheteedo

Member
Hah, just been reading some of this topic, whole lot of backlash going on. L.A. Noire is outright superb. It's problem, however, is that it's a fairly niche game that was targeted at a massive audience. Those outside the niche can try to pick apart what's "wrong" with the game, but it just comes down to the game not being for you.

I'm just hugely grateful that this game was allowed to exist. Hopefully the backlash won't hurt this potentially spectacular franchise.
 

Shiloa

Member
Cheech said:
If you have a fat PS3, get it on 360. Trust me on this.
Can't say I am having any problem here on my 40GB fat PS3. It's almost silent running as usual. Perhaps you need to give it better ventilation?
 
Cheech said:
I think some of the game's backlash is not necessarily due to the game itself.

It's really going to appeal to people who love Noir, and while I can see some appeal outside of that, it's going to be hard to overcome. It's like hating westerns, but then being surprised that you didn't like Red Dead.

Personally, I dig the shit out of it. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's moved ahead of Portal 2 for my GOTY. However, LA Confidential is one of my favorite semi-recent movies, so there you go.

disagree - i think 'disliking the genre' has little, if anything, to do with people's criticisms here. i also really liked l.a. confidential (& everything from the maltese falcon to chinatown), & can assure you that you can actually enjoy noire & still not be crazy about this particular game...

if anything, someone liking a particular genre, in my experience, will usually be more selective regarding quality than someone coming from outside...
 

Cheech

Member
Shiloa said:
Can't say I am having any problem here on my 40GB fat PS3. It's almost silent running as usual. Perhaps you need to give it better ventilation?

I run it in a completely open A/V rack sitting in my basement where it is about 60-65F all the time. Ventilation is not an issue.

FTR, I don't blame Rockstar/TB at all. Sony makes shitty console hardware, this is hardly new, it's just annoying that I didn't have this issue until LA Noire.
 

Adamm

Member
Cheech said:
FTR, I don't blame Rockstar/TB at all. Sony makes shitty console hardware, this is hardly new, it's just annoying that I didn't have this issue until LA Noire.
Dont both consoles have issues with this game?
 
Acheteedo said:
Hah, just been reading some of this topic, whole lot of backlash going on. L.A. Noire is outright superb. It's problem, however, is that it's a fairly niche game that was targeted at a massive audience. Those outside the niche can try to pick apart what's "wrong" with the game, but it just comes down to the game not being for you.

I'm just hugely grateful that this game was allowed to exist. Hopefully the backlash won't hurt this potentially spectacular franchise.

I'm also glad that this game exists. This might be the first adventure game that i might actually finish. I don't mind the mechanics of the game as i'm already accustomed to the GTA jankiness.

I fail to understand the open world complains....Besides that its only there to provide atmosphere. If that's justifiable to you, is just a matter of opinion.

Do people want:

Crazy people doing crazy shit on the 40s?

Providing more crazy commentary in public?

Doing car jumps?

Doing street races?

Taxi missions?

Shooting or running over random people?

... People complain the disconnect between the character behavior between story and open world in GTA4..... yet here's LA Noire that is consistent in how a cop should act between story and open world... and yet complain...

Unlike GTA and RDR ... you're a cop on this game... it may not amount for variety on the open world... but i'm glad that they kept it consistent.
 

Interfectum

Member
Tobor said:
I'm almost done with Vice, and I'm still having a great time. Seems like every complaint I'm reading in here is overblown or a case of lofty expectations, or both.

I agree.

Also, I'd take a 'flawed' game like this over a super polished AAA shooter any day of the week.
 

tiff

Banned
Meier said:
Wow, just nailed all the clues and 15/16 questions but had about $2k in vehicle damage and got a 4*. If the damage caused me to not get a 5, that's some bullshit since most of it came when chasing after people.

I'm never ever driving again on my own if I can avoid it.

http://twitpic.com/51d7jx (slight spoiler in the CASE NOTES section -- White Shoe Slaying case)
I got 5 stars once and I had more than that in vehicle damage, so I dunno.

Dabanton said:
Code:
Just finished the Golden Butterfly they try to muddy the waters a bit
but did everyone find all the clues and visit the locations?

The fact that Eli had a blood covered overall and pipe in a car at the school pretty much made him my prime suspect.

I went to the school then to the morgue to look where they had a selection of ropes and what i thought was fairly important a shoe print but i was confused as the hugo's initials were on the overalls which they explained at the end as Eli works for a company with the same initials.
When someone tries to destroy evidence and then resist arrest they shoot to the top of my suspect list.

Although (end of Homicide spoilers):
It turns out that Hugo's excuse was actually truthful, and completely justified to boot :lol

Adamm said:
Its 90 on xbox & 89 on PS3
lol games criticism

Cheech said:
I think some of the game's backlash is not necessarily due to the game itself.

It's really going to appeal to people who love Noir, and while I can see some appeal outside of that, it's going to be hard to overcome. It's like hating westerns, but then being surprised that you didn't like Red Dead.

Personally, I dig the shit out of it. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's moved ahead of Portal 2 for my GOTY. However, LA Confidential is one of my favorite semi-recent movies, so there you go.

My only regret is there was no PC version, and being forced to play this awesome game on 6 year old hardware. You're killing me, Rockstar.
I think you're on to something here, but I think it's less people who aren't into Noir being turned off by it, and more people who are into Noir being able to forgive its faults more.

Personally I'm still enjoying the game, but there's a multitude of flaws that I feel hold the game back from being what it really should be. It has nothing to do with the game's style.
 
Tobor said:
I'm almost done with Vice, and I'm still having a great time. Seems like every complaint I'm reading in here is overblown or a case of lofty expectations, or both.

I wholly concur. Just a bunch of negative nancies in this here biatch. The myriad of little flaws do nothing to dilute the hugely engrossing experience I'm having playing L.A. Noire right now. GOTY.
 

Cheech

Member
Adamm said:
Dont both consoles have issues with this game?

From what I can gather, the framerate gets dodgier on 360 (the PS3 version is hardly running at a locked 30 fps either, though), and some dude said it locked up on him "a few" times during his playthrough.

My PS3 has not only locked up twice during LA Noire, but the full blast fan thing is constant. My PS3 is silent until about 20 minutes, and then BAM, full blast fans. If I put the thing on pause, it will get silent again, only to hit OMFG full blast about 5 minutes later after I resume. I can't overstate how unholy loud it is either. Imagine two 2005-era 360s taped together and running inside an empty hot water heater in the middle of August in the desert.

Both versions have problems, but for my money, I wish I'd gone 360. I went PS3 to avoid swapping discs, well... yeah. If I played my PS3 much at all, I would trade my hot mess in to Gamestop and get a slim. But it doesn't hardly seem worth it for a system that only sees one or two games a year. I primarily use it for Netflix and Blu Ray movies, which obviously don't work the system into overdrive.
 

megalowho

Member
In the last act now and Cole has grown from an ambitious bore to an unlikable bore. I guess that's interesting on a conceptual level, but it's not too fun and falls apart in execution. Whenever I see a newspaper in the game I get giddy, whenever a WWII vignette comes up I get a drink. The few hints at a life outside work are awkwardly presented, and now that it's affecting the main story it's all one big shrug for me. Wish they'd just done away with them completely, or allow you to spend more time with the character in his off time. Really enjoying the game, won't be sad to see Mr. Phelps go once it's over.
 

Returners

Member
I just thought of a great trophy they should've included:

For the "The Fallen Idol" case:

Seriously... Its Just Next Door
Drive to the scene instead of walking to it
 

Clunker

Member
I finished up the Homicide desk last night, and I thought the whole thing was great. A little drawn out, perhaps (especially compared to how short the tutorial/beat cop and Traffic desks were), but I thought the whole story arc was fantastic.

Wresting power away from the player and forcing him to make fairly arbitrary decisions on putting away suspects is precisely the entire point of the desk. Phelps voices his suspicions right from the end of the very first case, where you find all of the evidence nicely wrapped up in a bow and Rusty is all "Forget about it, just be glad we're done." Your boss and your partner don't give a shit about morals or principle, they just want to appease the press and make themselves look good.

The main reason a video game player would dislike this desk is precisely if he/she only plays video games to feel empowered -- to be a supercop, to right the wrongs of the world and be rewarded for it. But the game is freaking called L.A. Noire. There are dark, seedy, sinister things all around, and the feeling of impotent frustration and powerless when struggling against the current of a world that forces you to make unsavory compromises ... is kind of the point, I thought.

I see a lot of people touting how much they enjoyed L.A. Confidential and Chinatown, but seriously, do you guys even remember how those movies ended?

The game most assuredly has flaws, but in general I'm really loving the entire experience. The mood, the characters, the dialogue, the interrogations (which suffer from a bit of bullshit logic quirks, but not nearly as much as the massive gulfs of logic that Phoenix Wright takes almost constantly) -- everything works together so tightly.
 
In eight or nine cases now...

I can agree with many points that are brought up in this thread.
But I still think, that despite it's shortcomings, this is a game that deserves all the merit it gets.

It's able to create an amzing atmosphere and up till now i've never had a case that felt truly off.
Ok there are a couple of kinks in the story telling,
ad the conversation system is a bit bare bones (but cudos to Bondi for trying something else for a change).
But you have to be impressed with the scale of things,
if there's so much scenario and acting involved it's to be expected that not everything is waterproof and airtight.
I worked a full year (not counting haracter pre-production) to finish and polish a five minute scenario for my graduation-film at the academy...
So writing something polished for a +20 hours, multiple plotlines, multiple dialogue options, character rich story in a couple of years is near impossible.

Unless there's only one road to travel (and even then there's weird shit crawling in your adventure game), it's to expected that there are loose ends and such.
Look at Blade Runner, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, most of Sierra's adventure games, most open world games, almost all mmo's...

About the controlls, yes they could've been better, but they're not much worse than any other rockstar game I played. They just always screw up in the controlls department.
Luckily this game plays slow enough to be able to work around it.
I can't count how many times I died in RDR because I couldn't open my weapon wheel or switched to the knife automatically...
 
Clunker said:
I finished up the Homicide desk last night, and I thought the whole thing was great. A little drawn out, perhaps (especially compared to how short the tutorial/beat cop and Traffic desks were), but I thought the whole story arc was fantastic.

Wresting power away from the player and forcing him to make fairly arbitrary decisions on putting away suspects is precisely the entire point of the desk. Phelps voices his suspicions right from the end of the very first case, where you find all of the evidence nicely wrapped up in a bow and Rusty is all "Forget about it, just be glad we're done." Your boss and your partner don't give a shit about morals or principle, they just want to appease the press and make themselves look good.

The main reason a video game player would dislike this desk is precisely if he/she only plays video games to feel empowered -- to be a supercop, to right the wrongs of the world and be rewarded for it. But the game is freaking called L.A. Noire. There are dark, seedy, sinister things all around, and the feeling of impotent frustration and powerless when struggling against the current of a world that forces you to make unsavory compromises ... is kind of the point, I thought.

I see a lot of people touting how much they enjoyed L.A. Confidential and Chinatown, but seriously, do you guys even remember how those movies ended?

The game most assuredly has flaws, but in general I'm really loving the entire experience. The mood, the characters, the dialogue, the interrogations (which suffer from a bit of bullshit logic quirks, but not nearly as much as the massive gulfs of logic that Phoenix Wright takes almost constantly) -- everything works together so tightly.

That's a great point.
 
low-G said:
There's a lot of people that were never gonna want this kind of game, and many of those people don't even know what they want. So whenever a super highly acclaimed and extremely good game comes out people all pick it up and some end up hating it.

It's especially contentious when the game is so different from the average game, deals with topics much more maturely than 99.99% of games, and virtually zero concessions were made to appeal to anyone other than the target audience.

It reflects on the tastes of the consumer, as all opinions do. Not on the quality of the game.
No. There are fundamental issues with the game that stop it being great, in a purely objective sense. I love Phoenix Wright. I love adventure games. I'm not dazed and confused by the game's "maturity" (having cases that are Murder, She Wrote tier isn't overwhelming for me). But the backbone of the game, it's interrogation system and brief action sequences, are disappointing. And the storytelling really doesn't evolve in to anything impressive.
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
yeah I just got to arson right now, and its getting hard for me to want to finish the game. I will because I'm not too far.

It's a good game, just flawed in a few areas. The facial animation and voice acting saves the game for me. Not even Uncharted 3 has facial animation that compares. Simply amazing.

I kind of want Team Bondi to make a "The Wire" game. :p
 

Shiloa

Member
Clunker said:
Wresting power away from the player and forcing him to make fairly arbitrary decisions on putting away suspects is precisely the entire point of the desk. Phelps voices his suspicions right from the end of the very first case, where you find all of the evidence nicely wrapped up in a bow and Rusty is all "Forget about it, just be glad we're done." Your boss and your partner don't give a shit about morals or principle, they just want to appease the press and make themselves look good.

The main reason a video game player would dislike this desk is precisely if he/she only plays video games to feel empowered -- to be a supercop, to right the wrongs of the world and be rewarded for it. But the game is freaking called L.A. Noire. There are dark, seedy, sinister things all around, and the feeling of impotent frustration and powerless when struggling against the current of a world that forces you to make unsavory compromises ... is kind of the point, I thought.
Great point yes. At first I was in the whiner camp, feeling stiffed by the outcomes at the desks but by the time I finished the game I realised that this is no normal game. The restrictions and limitations and conclusions are there for a reason and sometimes you just have to embrace that for the sake of the game world.

No doubt there real issues with the dialogue, with the game in general, but I realised a lot of it didn't matter compared to what the game was set out to achieve.
 
I'm loving this game. It's the perfect blend of story and action for an old schooler like me.

The only issue I have is that the homicide desk cases drag on a little to long...


First post!
 
Clunker said:
I finished up the Homicide desk last night, and I thought the whole thing was great. A little drawn out, perhaps (especially compared to how short the tutorial/beat cop and Traffic desks were), but I thought the whole story arc was fantastic.

Wresting power away from the player and forcing him to make fairly arbitrary decisions on putting away suspects is precisely the entire point of the desk. Phelps voices his suspicions right from the end of the very first case, where you find all of the evidence nicely wrapped up in a bow and Rusty is all "Forget about it, just be glad we're done." Your boss and your partner don't give a shit about morals or principle, they just want to appease the press and make themselves look good.

The main reason a video game player would dislike this desk is precisely if he/she only plays video games to feel empowered -- to be a supercop, to right the wrongs of the world and be rewarded for it. But the game is freaking called L.A. Noire. There are dark, seedy, sinister things all around, and the feeling of impotent frustration and powerless when struggling against the current of a world that forces you to make unsavory compromises ... is kind of the point, I thought.

I see a lot of people touting how much they enjoyed L.A. Confidential and Chinatown, but seriously, do you guys even remember how those movies ended?

The game most assuredly has flaws, but in general I'm really loving the entire experience. The mood, the characters, the dialogue, the interrogations (which suffer from a bit of bullshit logic quirks, but not nearly as much as the massive gulfs of logic that Phoenix Wright takes almost constantly) -- everything works together so tightly.

Good stuff.
 

ultron87

Member
I'm still on traffic but the one thing I wish this game had was the ability to disable all the things that tell you whether you got an interview question right or wrong.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
It's both unfair and inaccurate to say that someone's criticism of the game comes from an innate inability to appreciate the place/setting/spirit of the game. I'd say most people here fancy themselves au fait enough, in regards to gaming, to genuinely indulge themselves in a universe that is (comparatively) atypical. There are valid criticisms. The interrogation system does not work the way it should. Clue finding becomes monotonous. It never ever evolves. The narrative has more lows than highs. I don't think the city feels as alive or is as impressive as people say, though that one may just be me. Even with it being an open world, the main story arch feels seemingly linear. I simply do not agree with the notion that gamers can't handle subtly or nuance thus they can't/don't like the game. The kindest thing I can say about LA Noire by its very nature, is that it's ambitious but ultimately and irrevocably flawed.
 

Interfectum

Member
MuseManMike said:
It's both unfair and inaccurate to say that someone's criticism of the game comes from an innate inability to appreciate the place/setting/spirit of the game. I'd say most people here fancy themselves au fait enough, in regards to gaming, to genuinely indulge themselves in a universe that is (comparatively) atypical. There are valid criticisms. The interrogation system does not work the way it should. Clue finding becomes monotonous. It never ever evolves. The narrative has more lows than highs. I don't think the city feels as alive or is as impressive as people say, though that one may just be me. Even with it being an open world, the main story arch feels seemingly linear. I simply do not agree with the notion that gamers can't handle subtly or nuance thus they can't/don't like the game. The kindest thing I can say about LA Noire by its very nature, is that it's ambitious but ultimately and irrevocably flawed.

I disagree with you 100%... especially the parts in bold.
 
low-G said:
There's a lot of people that were never gonna want this kind of game, and many of those people don't even know what they want. So whenever a super highly acclaimed and extremely good game comes out people all pick it up and some end up hating it.

It's especially contentious when the game is so different from the average game, deals with topics much more maturely than 99.99% of games, and virtually zero concessions were made to appeal to anyone other than the target audience.

It reflects on the tastes of the consumer, as all opinions do. Not on the quality of the game.

This is bullshit and one of those weak arguments that if you don't like something, you just don't get it.

I love old school adventure games, this game should have been for me. When I first started playing it, I loved it. The so-so driving and the shitty shooting mechanics didn't bother me. They did an awesome job of re-creating LA I liked investigating the cases and find out what was going on, and if they had kept with standalone cases, I probably would have continued to enjoy it.

It all falls apart during homicide when you realize
that you spent 5 fucking cases arresting the wrong people. That's something that should have been 3 tops.
Now that was frustrating to me, then vice game and I enjoyed it, felt more like traffic but
it's over pretty quickly and the cause of your demotion is fucking rediculous. There was nothing to set that up at all except for one scene where Cole goes and watches the bitch perform. And it carries no weight either. It seems to go against what you know of Cole and there's no reason for him to do it other than he's horny and he likes people from the Axis powers (still love his defense of the Japanese and how they attacked us because we stopped their supply of oil, he failed to mention how they were invading, murdering and raping China). You see his wife twice and she only speaks once. You never see his children, maybe they're ugly.

Anyway, then you start arson and
homicide rears its ugly head again. If you've been following the story, by the time you finish investigating your first house you should have figured most of it out. But once again you're forced to investigate the wrong people. Fortunately it's only kept to two cases this time, but it's two cases that you just rush through to get over with because you realize there's no way you can do the right thing.

The game does pick up midway through arson when
you take control of Jack, but having it so near the end is odd. You lose any tenuous connection you may have had to Cole and realize you should have been playing this guy the entire fame. The game then draws you in to its big ending that I guess is supposed to be emotional but they don't earn it. I felt nothing, didn't care, was glad it was over.

That's a longwinded way of saying that this is a game built around investigating crimes and solving them. You're supposed to think these things through, and if you do that, the game punishes you. For me it's not the weak gameplay elements that kill it, it's that the element where the game should have really been spectacular is nearly destroyed in service of a terrible story. The traffic desk showed how awesome this game could have been (and I really liked the vice boxing case)...
 

Marleyman

Banned
I complained early on about the gunplay and driving but I am loving the experience so far. I am in Vice right now and the cases are engrossing - I really am getting the hang of how to read people. This is a definite GOTY candidate even with the issues I have with it.
 

Double D

Member
Balls deep in Homicide (think I might be on the last case), and I feel the same as many of you. I can't say I'm enjoying much of the game, but I feel compelled to kepp playing it. Really strange. So far the flashbacks and the newspaper stuff just doesn't make any sense to me (in the sense that I have no idea if they are tied together or they are building on eachother or what).

Oh, and the Golden Butterfly?
I don't think either of them did it, and I got all the clues and all the questions correct. Hell, I don't think a lot of these people from the last few cases were guilty, but maybe that comes together at the end of the homicide run.

Even this last case I did, where supposedly the guy from the Produce Market was the killer. So I'm digging around getting all this stuff, then I go to the produce stand, talk to the dude, then find his little back room. I find a bloody scalpel, the guy runs away. As soon as I catch him it's just like, "Well, you are the murderer. No further questions". I don't know, it all just seems disjointed.
 

LifEndz

Member
Vik_Vaughn said:
Balls deep in Homicide (think I might be on the last case), and I feel the same as many of you. I can't say I'm enjoying much of the game, but I feel compelled to kepp playing it. Really strange. So far the flashbacks and the newspaper stuff just doesn't make any sense to me (in the sense that I have no idea if they are tied together or they are building on eachother or what).

Oh, and the Golden Butterfly?
I don't think either of them did it, and I got all the clues and all the questions correct. Hell, I don't think a lot of these people from the last few cases were guilty, but maybe that comes together at the end of the homicide run.

Even this last case I did, where supposedly the guy from the Produce Market was the killer. So I'm digging around getting all this stuff, then I go to the produce stand, talk to the dude, then find his little back room. I find a bloody scalpel, the guy runs away. As soon as I catch him it's just like, "Well, you are the murderer. No further questions". I don't know, it all just seems disjointed.


Maybe that's an accurate depiction of police work in general? A couple of posters who sounded like they have real world experience with this stuff stated as much. I think the point is that things don't always wrap up nicely.
 
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
This is bullshit and one of those weak arguments that if you don't like something, you just don't get it.

I love old school adventure games, this game should have been for me. When I first started playing it, I loved it. The so-so driving and the shitty shooting mechanics didn't bother me. They did an awesome job of re-creating LA I liked investigating the cases and find out what was going on, and if they had kept with standalone cases, I probably would have continued to enjoy it.

It all falls apart during homicide when you realize
that you spent 5 fucking cases arresting the wrong people. That's something that should have been 3 tops.
Now that was frustrating to me.

How was that frustrating?

Spoilers for the Homicide Desk.

It goes to prove that when comes to homicide its all about closing cases and making headlines. That was the whole point of the arc. To show you the way the police worked and still works the same way today. Its all about the numbers. It's pretty obvious from the conversations with rusty. On ever case rusty always pushed for the husband, the easy solution. Phelps felt that he needed to connect the murders to BD. The department doesn't want that since is going to drag out. Eventually it came back to bite the departments ass. I saw it as a good arc.

You're entitled to not liking it, but at least I hope you understand the angle.
 
Lord-Audie said:
How was that frustrating?

Spoilers for the Homicide Desk.

It goes to prove that when comes to homicide its all about closing cases and making headlines. That was the whole point of the arc. To show you the way the police worked and still works the same way today. Its all about the numbers. It's pretty obvious from the conversations with rusty. On ever case rusty always pushed for the husband, the easy solution. Phelps felt that he needed to connect the murders to BD. The department doesn't want that since is going to drag out. Eventually it came back to bite the departments ass. I saw it as a good arc.

You're entitled to not liking it, but at least I hope you understand the angle.

I understand the angle fine, and had it been handled differently it could have worked.
Maybe I'm supposed to feel the frustration of being a detective not allowed to do his job. But this is a game that is supposed to be all about the investigation, not arbitrarily locking up random people of varying degrees of badness. You're actually punished for trying to think these things through. It doesn't work as a game, and it's a story that's not told well enough to rise beyond its videogame trappings.
 

Peff

Member
Lord-Audie said:
That's a great point.

Not really, because Cole
plays along with the convenient stuff that happens just like the rest of the department and there's no struggle against anything given that none of his suspicions go beyond "Huh, Isn't that odd? Just sayin'...". It's not like he's fighting against the powers that be and trying to find this mysterious killer, he's just as obsessed with being promoted as the rest of them and never tries to look for anything at all that would prove his theory despite the fact that it's fucking obvious that there's something else going on. It's not like the captain is trying to stop him, quite the opposite, it's Cole himself who pushes Rusty to keep investigating the cases and still arrests five innocent people who of course the captain would believe are guilty.

Heck, as a matter of fact, if you were to cut to credits right after killing the bartender in the last case, would you say that there's a bad ending coming? There's no reason to think they won't get promoted and the innocent men set free until you get the news.
 

Adamm

Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
I understand the angle fine, and had it been handled differently it could have worked.
Maybe I'm supposed to feel the frustration of being a detective not allowed to do his job. But this is a game that is supposed to be all about the investigation, not arbitrarily locking up random people of varying degrees of badness. You're actually punished for trying to think these things through. It doesn't work as a game, and it's a story that's not told well enough to rise beyond its videogame trappings.
^ This

Plus the fact that it so obvious that you are locking up the wrong people makes it seem stupid. Its not like there is a bit of doubt in your mind or a bit of evidence that doesnt add up, it is s obvious that you are not locking up the murderer. If it had have been more subtle so that you may have had some doubts while doing it, but to make it so blatant just made the whole section feel pointless.
 
I'm finally at the point where I feel I can predict which option to choose. The only thing is that once in a while I'll suspect a POI is not being honest, choose doubt, when the person is actually just telling the truth. And the odd time Cole doesn't use a piece of evidence during an accusation like I thought he would.

The nice part is that with multiple suspects, I'm not really all that sure that I'm locking up the right person.
 
Got this game yesterday and was wowed by the presentation. It makes one hell of a first impression. I'm still trying to come to grips with the subtleties of an interrogation mechanic that relies in unwritten clues and hints.
 

Clunker

Member
Vik_Vaughn said:
Balls deep in Homicide (think I might be on the last case), and I feel the same as many of you. I can't say I'm enjoying much of the game, but I feel compelled to kepp playing it. Really strange. So far the flashbacks and the newspaper stuff just doesn't make any sense to me (in the sense that I have no idea if they are tied together or they are building on eachother or what).

Oh, and the Golden Butterfly?
I don't think either of them did it, and I got all the clues and all the questions correct. Hell, I don't think a lot of these people from the last few cases were guilty, but maybe that comes together at the end of the homicide run.

Even this last case I did, where supposedly the guy from the Produce Market was the killer. So I'm digging around getting all this stuff, then I go to the produce stand, talk to the dude, then find his little back room. I find a bloody scalpel, the guy runs away. As soon as I catch him it's just like, "Well, you are the murderer. No further questions". I don't know, it all just seems disjointed.
Keep playing. It all makes sense, but whether you like where it ends up or not is another story entirely! :p

MuseManMike said:
It's both unfair and inaccurate to say that someone's criticism of the game comes from an innate inability to appreciate the place/setting/spirit of the game. I'd say most people here fancy themselves au fait enough, in regards to gaming, to genuinely indulge themselves in a universe that is (comparatively) atypical.
I don't know; there are a lot of gamers I've seen here that, for example (more end of Homicide spoilers):

have posted about how they feel it's bullshit that they have to finger someone at the end of each case and get a murder charge, and how they'd feel better if Cole could somehow confront the police chief and get him to understand that the case isn't as clear-cut as it appears, that it's somehow all tied to the Black Dahlia killer, and that this evidence is circumstantial at best and reeks heavily of being planted. How is that realistic? This is obviously a conflict between what the player wants to do and what, realistically, could be seen as working within the confines of the game's universe. Being forced to get a confession out of someone and just get a suspect is the entire driving force behind the desk! Lazy-ass Rusty (likable as he is by the end, or at least I thought so) is constantly pushing to land the easiest suspect, and the police chief wants the suspect that will give the LAPD the best press (which is why he's pissed if you nail Hugo Moller instead of the kiddie-perv Eli whatshisface, even though I felt the evidence was overwhelmingly in Moller's camp).

MuseManMike said:
The kindest thing I can say about LA Noire by its very nature, is that it's ambitious but ultimately and irrevocably flawed.
Agreed in general, though I naturally dispute the "irrevocably" part.
It's definitely divisive, and I can completely understand why people who would have thought one thing about the game would be pissed as hell about how some of the cases turn out. (Disclaimer: I just started Vice, so it's entirely possible my opinion could head south by the end of the game!) I guess it just rings true with me as something really clever, even if it's at my expense at times. A lot of people don't like being the butt of a joke.

Adamm said:
But this is a game that is supposed to be all about the investigation, not arbitrarily locking up random people of varying degrees of badness.
Is it, though? Or is it a game more concerned about simply "solvin' cases"? ;)
 

taoofjord

Member
I've barely read the posts in this thread, I want to avoid spoilers. I'm only a a few cases into Traffic:

- Atmosphere is awesome
- Facial animation is neat but it looks awkward to the point that it's creepy and distracting.
- Cases aren't interesting. I love crime fiction and mysteries but so far the cases are uninspired and so far a little too obvious. Even Monk has mysteries that are more interesting and that show doesn't even rely on them.
- Acting isn't close to tv quality. The actors seem very nervous and unnatural. I'd imagine that's due to the technology that was used as much as the game's director.
- The game has a lot of potential, and may eventually find its groove, but so far it seems like one big hot mess. I'm pretty disappointed so far. :(

Anyway, do the cases get more interesting as the game progresses?
 
Adamm said:
^ This

Plus the fact that it so obvious that you are locking up the wrong people makes it seem stupid. Its not like there is a bit of doubt in your mind or a bit of evidence that doesnt add up, it is s obvious that you are not locking up the murderer. If it had have been more subtle so that you may have had some doubts while doing it, but to make it so blatant just made the whole section feel pointless.

Also goes to the point that

That it wasn't that difficult for the LAPD to make a case against someone in that period of time. This is quite evident on the Moller case. Even though both are innocent, there's a stronger case for the husband. Yet the Head of homicide wants the pedo to be charged. He doesn't sweat making a case against him, because he knows is a non-issue. This is a time in which without a confession, fingerprints and witnesses, most if not all cases a circumstantial. Also note that Phelps is new to homicide and is not likely for a detective to solve cases on his own, much less against command. It's very clear that the department refuses to acknowledge that the BD is still at large.
 
Cheech said:
I think some of the game's backlash is not necessarily due to the game itself.

It's really going to appeal to people who love Noir, and while I can see some appeal outside of that, it's going to be hard to overcome. It's like hating westerns, but then being surprised that you didn't like Red Dead.

Personally, I dig the shit out of it. I'm going to go ahead and say that it's moved ahead of Portal 2 for my GOTY. However, LA Confidential is one of my favorite semi-recent movies, so there you go.

My only regret is there was no PC version, and being forced to play this awesome game on 6 year old hardware. You're killing me, Rockstar.

For me it, it's not really a backlash, but kind or reset expectations. Don't get me wrong, I'm still loving the game, I'm just pointing out, and what a lot of people are pointing out, is that the mechanics of the interrogations could have been better. I don't think you will find a lot of complaints in here that people went in expecting GTA IV in the 40's. I certainly didn't, and I knew exactly what I was getting into. Hell, I loved Mafia II.

I think you'll be hardpressed to find people not impressed by the atmosphere, art direction, incredible facial animation and its just general Noire-ness. At the end of the day, though, all the fancy facial animations and window dressing doesn't change the fact that it's still a game. And if the focus of your game is largely on conversation, that part better be spot-on tight. I'm not saying it's bad, either. I'm just saying it could have been better. Like someone just posted a few minutes ago, sometimes you will have three pieces of evidence that proves someone is lying, but only one is the "special key" that will work.
 
MuseManMike said:
It's both unfair and inaccurate to say that someone's criticism of the game comes from an innate inability to appreciate the place/setting/spirit of the game. I'd say most people here fancy themselves au fait enough, in regards to gaming, to genuinely indulge themselves in a universe that is (comparatively) atypical. There are valid criticisms. The interrogation system does not work the way it should. Clue finding becomes monotonous. It never ever evolves. The narrative has more lows than highs. I don't think the city feels as alive or is as impressive as people say, though that one may just be me. Even with it being an open world, the main story arch feels seemingly linear. I simply do not agree with the notion that gamers can't handle subtly or nuance thus they can't/don't like the game. The kindest thing I can say about LA Noire by its very nature, is that it's ambitious but ultimately and irrevocably flawed.

The primary difference is people of other mediums tend to blow past obvious yet redundant criticism in favor of the larger picture. I honestly wonder if the experiences people had with L.A Noire are seriously represented by posts here, because if so its a pretty low reflection of their approach to games in general.

We are on a forum with endless complaints about generic titles and a lack of maturity in the medium. In comes along a title that rethinks both how games can be both presented and played, yet this thread is now littered with very reactionary cynicism.
 
This is certainly an interesting conversation, Clunker, but I just don't think the intent here was to produce the kind of bold anti-game statements you're applying to it.

The game is all over the map in how the player is supposed to relate to Cole. If we're supposed to feel frustrated at the department's "expediency", then it should be reflected through Cole's frustration. If the game is being bolder about it and we're supposed to get angry at Cole, then he should be even more blatantly ambitious than he already is. Instead Cole manages to be both a by-the-book straight arrow and a promotion-obsessed semi-jerk. He has his nagging doubts about the copycat Dahlia slayings. He is annoyed when the real story is swept under the rug. But only kinda sorta! The game plants these seeds of moral conflict that Cole never really addresses, and it seems more like the game is just tripping over its own narrative rather than asking difficult questions of us.

You can have an anti-hero as the main character in a video game (obviously, that's like 90% of "mature" video games these days), but that's not what Cole is. He's a slightly jerky protagonist who literally doesn't do what the player wants sometimes, and that's a whole other level of artifice that doesn't really work in a game.
 

tiff

Banned
The problem with homicide
isn't so much the concept, but the execution. If the player had the same feeling about the connection between murders as Cole does (a simple suspicion), then it may have worked, but it's plainly obvious what the real story is. Yet the player is forced along for the ride, not for an organic reason that could be explained within the game's universe, but simply because the game won't let him. It's not a failure on the part of the player, it's a failure on the part of the writing, and on Cole Phelps as a conduit between the player and the game.

TheHeretic said:
We are on a forum with endless complaints about generic titles and a lack of maturity in the medium. In comes along a title that rethinks both how games can be both presented and played, yet this thread is now littered with very reactionary cynicism.
LA Noire might rethink how video games are presented, but it certainly doesn't rethink how they are played. It's very much a standard video game in that regard.
 

JBuccCP

Member
I wish we could stop labeling every opinion that has negativity as "backlash". This isn't some hivemind bandwagon that people are jumping on. It's people sharing their honest impressions of a game as they play through it. If you like it great, no one is labeling you as a R* sheep,
that's just the gaming press
.
 
tiff said:
LA Noire might rethink how video games are presented, but it certainly doesn't rethink how they are played. It's very much a standard video game in that regard.

No, it isn't, because it inverts the relationship between action sequences and what are typically designed as mini games and dialog trees.
 

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
I got the game earlier than most after paying £50 for the privilege.

Spoiler-Free Review

The environment/setting

I think by now the presumption this to be an open world game has been concluded to be nothing but a misconception. In reality, for all the scope, detail and authenticity of the city, it feels like a prop of a static background more suited, ironically, for a Hollywood set than it being a reflection of a living urban environment. There is no interaction involved save the ability to occasionally bump it lamp posts or benches because of the poor driving controls. 95% of the discussion you hear on the rare moments you step outside your automobile is essentially "Look, it's that cop from the papers". There is no chatter or sign of life. The hot dog stands we saw in GTA IV make a return but surprisingly you can't interact with them either.

At the beginning of the game, it's noted that you can enter buildings with golden handles but in reality you can only enter buildings relating to the actual case, whether it be a store or motel you had interview someone in. Unlike previous Rockstar iterations, you can't shop for inventory - the buildings, of which rarely catch your interest outside the landmarks, are effectively a background. And the ones I mentioned you could enter? Their only purpose is to interview a character - you can't actually interact with anything inside them. From a design perspective, I'm curious as to why Team Bondi failed to take advantage of this by i.e. requiring players to improve their fitness (for the countless on-foot chase scenes); perhaps access to a Gym with mini-games that improve your stamina? Heck, why not require the player to eat once in a while for the same reason?

The vehicles that populate the streets are forgettable and appear, outside detailed study of the trunk, to feature 5 different models. Sometimes, you'll want to try to immerse yourself into the setting by changing cars. Even though they will stop, they will only do so if you walk directly in front of them. You can't call a cab, or call for a car to stop - you have to get next to the window, and this will see you often chasing a car just to be able to get behind its wheel. Being LA, the weather rarely varies. In fact, the night-day transitions rarely vary unless you're actively searching around the map for a landmark or a film reel; these weather transitions are uncommon within the actual story though. In the 20 hours it took me to complete the game, it rained twice in open play and twice in cinematics. So, being outside - in this large city, is pretty pointless. The driving is clumsy and there is nothing visually interesting to look at; a complete contrast to the free roam abilities you have in Red Dead or Grand Theft Auto IV; remember speeding in a motorcycle on a wet highway during rain and being chased by cops? Yeah, well I hope you enjoy watching rail cars because that's the height of the excitement you'll have, unless its a scripted chase sequence that lasts a few blocks and ends in the predictable arrest after the repetitive tactic of bumping it off course. Arguably there was more atmosphere in a fire camp in RDR than what I experienced in the entire LA. I'm left genuinely baffled by those who actually enjoyed the environment.

The investigation/interrogation

This is the bread and butter of the game. Unfortunately, for 14 straight cases, you're first phase of the investigation involves crime scenes the size of your toilet. The police mark out the vicinity around the scene, leaving a small space where clues are placed. You find them quite easily enough, even without the vibration helping you. After those 2 minutes of searching, you are directed to the conveniently placed telephone - which always seems to be directly next to the body or vehicle. You call, the same lady picks up, and she gives you an address. You ask the suspect 3 or 4 pre-defined questions, and judging by whether or not their eyes lean left or right, it is a cue to press either Doubt or Lie; the latter being a lie when you found evidence that contradicts their statement. Investigation done. You are then directed to another crime scene - same tune, walk around for a few seconds, stumble across the oddly placed object, ask them the pre-set question and respond to the cue.

This mechanic was present in RDR, but for a bar game. Given, there was no facial capture technology behind the faces, its nonetheless essentially responding to a scripted scene, except they've managed to class it as an entire game this time. In fact it could be said the entire game is centered on watching the facial expressions rather than the actual story. It is compounded by the bizarre changes of tone by Phelps, already mentioned, where he asks one question in a calm tone, then the other angrily for no explicable reason, and then back to a tone of politeness. Personally, all the cases until the last Desk, and perhaps the one before it (Vice) were completely unappealing, uninteresting and crucially offered no sense of mystery or intrigue. The lask Desk is different in structure and in content. It doesn't involve looking for an individual suspect or relying on actual clues - by now you already know who is involved, but Team Bondi set you out on finding the reasons why. Most importantly, it isn't set around a dead body or a crime scene. It's a welcome change of pace, but it ends right after that.

I'm concerned that the DLC will be of similar structure as the cases that preceded this Desk, where by you are told to go to X crime scene, pick up the objects off the floor and then go to a telephone to get the address of suspect 1. I'm actively considering what game(s) I could this trade in for. I've been fortunate enough to be great games this generation, but this is possibly one of the worst I've personally played.

6.5 - 7 out of 10
 
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