PillowKnight
Member
Too early to tell, but so far it feels as if they fucked granary even worse via the changes. Its now an even a bigger race to the first cp, and the back and forth that used to happen is very rare now.1-D_FTW said:
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Team Fortress 2 Official PC Thread. SO. WORTH. IT.
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Thudmaster
Banned
Hi all
I had so much fun playing on neogaf east server today. met some cool people and all.
Thanks
I had so much fun playing on neogaf east server today. met some cool people and all.
Thanks
Well I have terrible news. Since I am home for the holidays and without my PC, I am going to be unable to play anything at all.
I brought home my Orange Box to see if I could run it on the low-end computer we have at home. I jumped on the server with everything set to low and it was just unplayable with terrible FPS.
Oh well, I guess I could use a three week break anyways.
Xizk, enjoy the lead.
I brought home my Orange Box to see if I could run it on the low-end computer we have at home. I jumped on the server with everything set to low and it was just unplayable with terrible FPS.
Oh well, I guess I could use a three week break anyways.
Xizk, enjoy the lead.
I think it's actually the 4th CP that's the problem. Whenever a team takes it, they respawn extremely close, the game practically removes their respawn timer, and it gives the losing team the longest timer possible. You can kill someone that just took your 2nd point, immediately try to take it back, and fail because the guy you just killed already spawned right outside your door, with half of his teammates behind him.Jacobi said:
It's basically inevitable that whichever team establishes control of the middle CP will take the next one for at least a couple seconds (oftentimes, they'll take it quickly because the other team's already dead). Originally, losing your 2nd point for a moment wasn't a huge deal, and you could just take it back and try for the middle CP again. Now though, losing your 2nd CP at all is basically a death sentence. I've never seen a team comeback after losing it for more than a couple seconds; you'd basically have to kill every member of the opposing team 2-3 times on a single push to take it back.
KittenMaster
Member
Yeah. I'm watching the 4th episode of teamfortress.tv, and they were playing on Granary. They mention Granary having more momentum for attackers, and the matches are showing nothing but steamrolling.
The Storyteller
Member
I have 12, and I dont recall the match where I managed that. I remember there was a glitch a couple of months back where the ubercharge stats were playing up, so that could be it. Or I really did get that many ubercharges.Doytch said:
Granary is definitely borked. Basically the team with the most medics captures 3 and then they roll to victory from there.
Also had a weird bug with the game earlier. Hitokage got credit for killing me and it showed the snapshot of the lucky shot pyro. And I'm thinking, since when does Hito play Pyro? And I thought he was on my team? But then the points said the same thing: Hitokage got +2 points for killer StalkerU. So I looked at the scoreboard, and Hito is on my team and playing soldier. Weird.
Also had a weird bug with the game earlier. Hitokage got credit for killing me and it showed the snapshot of the lucky shot pyro. And I'm thinking, since when does Hito play Pyro? And I thought he was on my team? But then the points said the same thing: Hitokage got +2 points for killer StalkerU. So I looked at the scoreboard, and Hito is on my team and playing soldier. Weird.
Icy what the hell do you think you're doing, you cheat and spawn on the back roof of the castle behind the enemy and start picking off people as they come out, you alienate the players on the other team when asked to stop and when I call you out for it to stop you boast that its your server and that you can do what you want and then kick me, thats all fine and good when its your name on that server and only your name but you're representing the community so to cheat and piss off so many people is wrong and moronic.
Its one thing to admire work that someone does on behalf of a community but to do so then abuse it by being childish and petty shouldn't be stood for
Night night all.
Its one thing to admire work that someone does on behalf of a community but to do so then abuse it by being childish and petty shouldn't be stood for
Night night all.
sharkie said:
Teams were stacked so he was trying to even out the match by exploiting to an extent rather then switch people over. As far as im concerned you using "the community" argument to rebuke your ban is just as hypocritical. Icy is a fucking lousy shot anyways i cant imagine him disrupting much of a game's flow, rooftop or not. I think you getting killed is what prompted your whole fit. Icy you are ruining the poor man's rank :/
Hitokage said:warcock: Don't get so upset about spies. If you really want to get down to it, every class is overpowered.
...but demomen moreso.
Yes but i have in my power to sway the outcome of a soldier dashing towards me or even a demoman spamming me. While im totally powerless when a spy solely targets me. The guy kept coming at me even if it meant his certain death afterwards (i.e me standing next to an upgraded sentry). Snipers are annoying as well but you can counter them to a certain extent when they are on your case.
Unless he put himself in a place where you can't see him but he can shoot you, your team should be able to strike back after his first kill. Its not like you can't pick people off as they leave spawn from the normal play area...I've done that to Icy and his team before. And if you think him picking off people is a hard thing to deal with, then consider yourself lucky that you aren't teleported into his team's sentries every life. I just get a little laugh out of his admin exploits. If its possible to fight it (like it seems you would have been able to do) then don't whine, just shoot back at him. Its not like he's the best shot on the server.sharkie said:
I actually was complaining about this in the server today. I don't know if they changed anything, but the spawn timers are fucked. When you cap the middle point, your respawn is cut down to 10 seconds, and the now-defenders still have 20 second spawns. When you eventually cap the 2nd to last point because of your fast respawn, you now respawn in 5 seconds. Capping that middle point after losing the first rush, requires more then a miracle.PillowKnight said:
WARCOCK said:
a) Teams were not stacked it was even teams and I just joined
b) The only server I play on is the gaf server and the only reason I do is because I wanted to play with the GAF community, there is no agenda here by use of such an "argument"
c) I joined the server a minute earlier before the kick (later informed by Java as a ban) Icy didn't kill me or anything this isn't a vendetta, I called him out because my whole side started complaining that some one was cheating (Giganticus can confirm) and the fact that Icy normally kicks and/or bans players that glitch and/or hacks I called him out for cheating and the obvious hypocrisy.
d) I play this game to have fun and relax and I expected to have a good fair game and that was ruined for both me and the team I was on by an immature admin, and last I checked there was no rank system on TF so why would I care.
Giganticus
Member
Confirmed. He teleported to the top of the map on cp_castle as a sniper where he could see our entire team. Right from the start of the round so it wasn't a team stacking issue.
I do this because I can identify certain players as being "teambreakers", whereby their influence alone can make or break their advance/defence.
Usually it's an excellently placed demoman spamming our entire team into submission, a couple of really good snipers or sometimes it's simply a coordinated attack that's a significant problem such as Hitokage as a soldier with a medic for example; listening out for the "sparks" of a medic's heal gun is a pretty good way to find an important target. On offence, backstabbing an engineer next to his sentry as my team attacks will ensure he cannot repair it or replace it, although it WILL give him an easy sentry kill (though if you position yourself right, you can get him to suicide on the sentry while it tries to get you for bonus hilarity).
Taking out those players - even if I die instantly afterwards - will sometimes secure the destruction of an enemy team's attack, the crippling of a defence etc.
Yeah it pisses people off I imagine, but it's devastatingly effective as a momentum maker/breaker.
WARCOCK said:
I do this because I can identify certain players as being "teambreakers", whereby their influence alone can make or break their advance/defence.
Usually it's an excellently placed demoman spamming our entire team into submission, a couple of really good snipers or sometimes it's simply a coordinated attack that's a significant problem such as Hitokage as a soldier with a medic for example; listening out for the "sparks" of a medic's heal gun is a pretty good way to find an important target. On offence, backstabbing an engineer next to his sentry as my team attacks will ensure he cannot repair it or replace it, although it WILL give him an easy sentry kill (though if you position yourself right, you can get him to suicide on the sentry while it tries to get you for bonus hilarity).
Taking out those players - even if I die instantly afterwards - will sometimes secure the destruction of an enemy team's attack, the crippling of a defence etc.
Yeah it pisses people off I imagine, but it's devastatingly effective as a momentum maker/breaker.
KittenMaster
Member
Interesting site. Hopefully the tournament scene picks up and TF2 becomes a very populated game so it'll last a few years, heh.
Giganticus said:
I am aware of all this but its exactly the ability that any person with barely any skill can just cloak and backstab whomever on the opp. team. Its definetly a valid tactic, it just feels exploitative and lame for the person being targeted. Not much you can do. I think the game would way better off if the cloak was set for a really limited period of time, or any other feature that would make the cloaked spy counterable.
Ughhhhhh I was just playing on a different server and there was this medic, he kept following me around and randomly healing me. Then he stuck to me for a while with full uber, so I rushed into the point, and he... ran away. Then uber'd the first soldier that came around the corner, after I died.1-D_FTW said:
Argh I do better without a medic on me.
Take heed, medics of GAF. Do not heal Twig the demoman. Ubers just surprise me and I don't know what to do. ):
(Well okay HEAL me but don't stick to me unless I'm the only dude around.)
PillowKnight
Member
Playing spy well takes about as much skill as playing other classes well. Different skills for sure, but it's not easy.WARCOCK said:
Those Doctors guy are insane, I like the TFTV idea, specially if they can keep covering those tournament game. Watching their scouts play just gave me a bunch of tips on how to better my scout game.
I dunno dude, being a good spy is HARD. I tried and couldn't for the life of me get behind the opposing team. I had six whole points in one round, where when I play demoman I get quite a few more points.WARCOCK said:
If you run into someone, even for half a second, they spam their weapon until they find you. If you get caught by a stray bullet, you're pretty much boned.
Although maybe I'm just that bad. ;_;
KittenMaster
Member
Bullcrap. Other classes are much easier to pick up. It's the fact that Spy's skills are different, and relies on the psyche of the enemy players that makes him so difficult to master, because he relies a lot on situation.
A lot of the reason it's hard to have incentive to be a good spy is because you have to wait around doing nothing in order to go undetected, and once you actually do something, you may end up screwing up. The time you waited doing nothing could have been spent destroying sentries with a Demoman or healing Heavies or something.
So in order to practice as a spy and become better at it, you have to sacrifice some strength in your team if you are not good as spy. If you can master spy, then you will be a valuable asset, but a bad spy is a liability (a bad spy won't even serve as a good distraction.)
I am saying this as a spy that has been playing the class and making tons of mistakes... Most times I have played a spy, the team I was on lost.
The Doctors' confirmed to me that Scouts are a great human-killing class. They are useless against sentry though, which they didn't see much of due to a low amount of players, and I have trouble with Heavies. Still, Scouts are great for killing off enemies with inaccurate weapons.
PillowKnight
Member
The same is true for every class in the game. The only difference is that regular FPS skills don't transfer into playing this class well.KittenMaster said:
KittenMaster
Member
You don't understand. The Spy is useless if you can't master it. Sure, you can learn it, but you actually have to master it before you can become useful to the team.
You can't call the Spy different, yet his ability to be mastered the same as any other class. The Spy relies on Stealth, and these aren't Metal Gear Solid grunts, these are human beings with the ability to adapt. If you screw up and they adapt to your Spying, it'll be much more difficult to infiltrate due to suspicious people. The Spy already has more weaknesses than any other character, but couple this with enemies who can exploit said weaknesses very easily, and you have a class that is very difficult to make useful.
You can't call the Spy different, yet his ability to be mastered the same as any other class. The Spy relies on Stealth, and these aren't Metal Gear Solid grunts, these are human beings with the ability to adapt. If you screw up and they adapt to your Spying, it'll be much more difficult to infiltrate due to suspicious people. The Spy already has more weaknesses than any other character, but couple this with enemies who can exploit said weaknesses very easily, and you have a class that is very difficult to make useful.
PillowKnight
Member
I wouldnt go as far as 'master'.KittenMaster said:
I've seen more than enough shitty medics, engineers, soldiers, demos, snipers, scouts ,ect, to know that before you learn a class you're practically useless. All of the classes have little quirks that you need to learn before you can do anything with them.
If you just started to play spy right now, you have to consider that most people have been playing for months now. Detecting spies is second nature to them, i'd say this is really just a case of you playing against players that have a lot more experience.
TIP: You never want to be in a player's center frame disguised. Always be that guy in their periphery, or better yet don't let them see you altogether.
KittenMaster
Member
So the Spy is just as easy to master as other classes because other classes have their own variants of noobs?
The difference between the other classes and the Spy is that other classes have room for mistakes. The Spy does not. If the Spy makes even a slight mistake, he is very dead. A newbie in another class can learn from his mistakes more easily since he doesn't have to learn from his mistakes all at once, but a Spy must be extremely tact and accurate in just about every thing he does, so learning from mistakes requires re-doing many, many strategies that may not work a second time and constantly mingling with enemies just to learn how to back stab more accurately.
Yes, I am basing all of my arguments on the fact that enemies know about spys and have it as a second nature. That's why I am saying that it is difficult to master the spy, because enemies will master you very quickly during the learning process.
The difference between the other classes and the Spy is that other classes have room for mistakes. The Spy does not. If the Spy makes even a slight mistake, he is very dead. A newbie in another class can learn from his mistakes more easily since he doesn't have to learn from his mistakes all at once, but a Spy must be extremely tact and accurate in just about every thing he does, so learning from mistakes requires re-doing many, many strategies that may not work a second time and constantly mingling with enemies just to learn how to back stab more accurately.
Yes, I am basing all of my arguments on the fact that enemies know about spys and have it as a second nature. That's why I am saying that it is difficult to master the spy, because enemies will master you very quickly during the learning process.
Thank you.
The Storyteller
Member
I've been playing spy a lot recently, so coming from a newbie to the class: they are diffictult to play, moreso than any class i've played extensively. Pyro is the only class that comes close.
PillowKnight
Member
KittenMaster said:
I'm saying you'll run into a similar problem as that of a pyro who doesn't know how to ambush people and charges them head on, the heavy who swings around his machine gun, a soldier that doesn't shoot at people's feet, the medic who heals a static target. The list goes on. This is just a common thread for all new players. It's not rare for new heavies to go down before even getting in a single hit, and most people would consider heavy the "easiest" class to learn.
Although I should mention that when I started spy I had a hard time starting too, the class just seems a lot more difficult than it actually is.
KittenMaster
Member
You're speaking from a complete n00b standpoint where you'll suck no matter what, but since I already had some TFC experience, TF2 was easier for me to get used to than what might have been for others, but even after watching videos displaying how to be good at a spy, and reading tips, it is still extremely difficult to play as the Spy, because he is meant to handle so specific situations which don't always come so easily, and since people don't stand still, it's been difficult for me to learn to aim with the back/side stab, because I don't get as many opportunities to actually practice backstabbing than say: shooting someone with a shotgun.
You can say that you can master the Spy just like you master any class, by taking the time, but the Spy requires many sacrifices to be made as well as time, because you have to sacrifice the ability to help others on a whim, and sacrifice the ability to jump into situations. This creates less chances to actually practice spy techniques, for when I try to kill someone, I usually fail, and have to work very hard to get into that situation again.
You can say that you can master the Spy just like you master any class, by taking the time, but the Spy requires many sacrifices to be made as well as time, because you have to sacrifice the ability to help others on a whim, and sacrifice the ability to jump into situations. This creates less chances to actually practice spy techniques, for when I try to kill someone, I usually fail, and have to work very hard to get into that situation again.
WARCOCK said:
It's rock, paper, scissor. As a soldier, trying to go against an entrenched sniper is an absolute bitch. The sniper has insta shots while you've got slow moving rockets that he'd have to be retarded to miss. So sniper is definitely unbalanced against soldiers. But soldier vs Spy? That's fun time. The only class funner to kill is the pyro. If you're a soldier and you're not making a fortune against pyros and spies, you're not very good. So it's rock-paper-scissor. Every class needs it's counter and thank god the spy is sniper's krypton or it'd completely ruin the balance of the game.
No, I was responding to your comment on soldiers who have a hard time with spies. It's pretty easy to get backstabbed when all of your attention is on engaging people you know are on the other team and can't afford to spend time and clip attacking every single thing around you. Especially so when the spy knows how important it is to kill you. :/
Then again, I've seen a lot of lousy spies fail miserably at backstabbing. Don't have a problem taking out those who whiff on the first strike.
Then again, I've seen a lot of lousy spies fail miserably at backstabbing. Don't have a problem taking out those who whiff on the first strike.
Okay. I'll agree with that. I've felt like I've had a bounty on my head a couple of times, too. And in that case, there's not much you can really do if you're priority #1, 2, and 3 and they're lurking to see when you're occupied.
I was just talking about the general k/d ratio. Excluding medics (since it's unfair to include them), I really think my highest k/d ratio is: 1.) Pyro 2.) Spy. And my worst k/d ratio is hands down against snipers.
I was just talking about the general k/d ratio. Excluding medics (since it's unfair to include them), I really think my highest k/d ratio is: 1.) Pyro 2.) Spy. And my worst k/d ratio is hands down against snipers.
I don't have an especially hard time against snipers, to be honest. Yeah, if I leave myself open and don't notice of one taking aim at me, I'll get whacked... but usually I can either take an alternate route and flank him(eg. those sewers in 2fort you think are useless), pump out suppressive fire to ensure safe passage, or close distance in a direct assault.
I wish you could actually see stats on that. Maybe sniper isn't my worst class. And maybe I just equate all snipers with Warcock planting himself in a heavily guarded corner of the map that's a meat grinder for a soldier to breach. Either way, I take pleasure in seeing Warcock's name appear onscreen with a backsnab next to it.
EDIT: And let me just say, I don't die that often against snipers. It's probably my least amount of deaths (excluding medics.) I just think it's probably my worst K/D ratio since you have no long distance defense against them. And good snipers like Warcock and RPhilman1 choose good locations to stand.
SECOND EDIT: I had to come back and add that Pyro is my least amount of deaths. I'm absolutely convinced my k/d ratio is at least 10:1 against pyros and I silently applaud every time one of them actually does get a kill on me.
EDIT: And let me just say, I don't die that often against snipers. It's probably my least amount of deaths (excluding medics.) I just think it's probably my worst K/D ratio since you have no long distance defense against them. And good snipers like Warcock and RPhilman1 choose good locations to stand.
SECOND EDIT: I had to come back and add that Pyro is my least amount of deaths. I'm absolutely convinced my k/d ratio is at least 10:1 against pyros and I silently applaud every time one of them actually does get a kill on me.
fallout said:
lol yeah, today a heavy tricked me, I was disguised as a demoman in front of him and first he didnt shoot and I was like "yey he didnt notice me now I can backstab him" but then when I came closer he started to spin his minigun and I was like "Oh f*ck, he just wanted me to come closer to him". :lol
Giganticus
Member
Spy tip: run backwards into enemy lines rather than forwards if your cloak is used up. And when a friendly rocket or grenade explodes near you, jump in a random direction, run backwards and shout for medic. Works wonders.
Giganticus said:
Yeah I use this sometimes but the flaw of this strategy is if the enemy are attacking your teammates as you do this you can be hit sometimes of enemy crossfire, like rockets and grenades, and if your teammates arent around while you do this they would almost everytime spycheck you. But as with all spy strategies it is important to not look suspicious. But even if you are a very good spy you can get killed by spychecking so my spy tip is to relay much more on cloak, because with cloak they cant spycheck you, just cloak with disguise on, try to get behind enemy lines and hide before the cloak is ended, wait and observe the perfect chance to backstab or sap something, then do it! The most important is to come behind every enemy, that is not have anyone behind you so that they cant observe your actions, this is easier said than done but it is very effective when you have the chance. Then when the time comes backstab and sap so much you can then cloak and escape. It is all about timing.
Richardfun
Member
I have to agree with the earlier comments about the spy, about it being the hardest to master. I have been fairly succesful with most other classes (except perhaps scout), but I have sucked arse every single time I attempted to play as a spy :lol
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