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[PillowKnight]

Any tips for playing soldier? I'm trying it out recently but the 4 rocket ammo seems so low! I seem to switch to shotgun often since I always run out of rockets so soon.

edit: I don't like the new Granary at all. The fun of it was the race to the middle cap point. Now with the gates the pace of the map seems off.

Hito's advice for playing soldier's how I started, he was right on. Something along the lines of 'I laugh at soldiers who waste their rockets', time your shots, make em count. In order to combat emptying out your clip, it's important to dodge into cover to reload. Also, it's important to pace yourself, if you play hastily you're likely to run out of rockets and die, ideally you should try to fight everyone 1v1. Against sentries, hit the slits in between the sentry to kill the engineer with splash damage, don't bother shooting the sentry, if you can't seem to get it this way target over the sentry. You'll also want to practice your diagonal shots, it'll help you kill people in cover, basically you shoot at an angle to a wall where you know an opponent is--against damaged enemies, the splash damage is enough to kill them.

Finally, rocket jump rocket jump rocket jump, rocket jump everywhere.

Edit : Beaten three times over!

 

[Bunny]

I knew you guys on Blue Fastlane were up to no good. You clone cloners you. P

haha, i think that is me in the back realizing that there were too many snipers on the team. i quickly switched classes :lol

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

I had fun yesterday being a medic on Conker's server. The battles were really chaotic most of the time (so I had plenty of people to heal) and I got a few extra achievements thanks to sonicspear64 and [GAF]Lukeman, which finally triggered the Ubersaw unlock. Kind of weird that I needed to get another achievement apparently in order to unlock it, instead of just logging in even though I already had the required amount of achievements... Anyway: I especially enjoyed the third level of Dustbowl when I was on the Red Team: I liked annoying the Blue guys with an übered Pyro right near their spawn area.

I hope the next update will include 1 or 2 good community maps as well. Fastlane is so very awesome, it's my favorite by far.

I hope they add steel cp_Steel next time, whenever Valve's going to add a few more community maps. That one looks pretty awesome.

Nope, I go by just "Vlad" in-game and on Steam. No clue who McVlad is

I know what you are.

AN IMPOSTER!

Dude, I'm at work. Are you guys all in Europe or something? :lol

I am. :<

 

[Capndrake]

The next community maps should be Steel and Roswell. Blackmesa (CP, not PL) would be fine as well.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

MicVlaD out pyro'd me that time.

Lol The backburner looks so damned evil. :lol

D:

Had fun earlier. :lol :lol @ MicVlad trying to hit me with the haydouken constantly. You should probably trying to tag someone stationary. I would have had the soldier earlier, but, I didn't want to chance getting hit with a rocket. I knew you were trying to use it when you hid around the corner so I backed up and waited a second. I could hear you. :lol You almost caught me that one time though. o.0

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

MicVlaD out pyro'd me that time.

Had fun earlier. :lol :lol @ MicVlad trying to hit me with the haydouken constantly. You should probably trying to tag someone stationary. I would have had the soldier earlier, but, I didn't want to chance getting hit with a rocket. I knew you were trying to use it when you hid around the corner so I backed up and waited a second. I could hear you. :lol You almost caught me that one time though. o.0

I like how the demoman is burning right below that poster.

And yeah, I was just fucking around on those maps. ;p Too few people on the server to play seriously.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Gonna play on the GAF server for a while. It'd be nice if more than three people would join this time around. ;p

 

[Capndrake]

Update:

Team Fortress 2 Update Released
July 1, 2008, 2:00 pm - Jason Ruymen - Product Update
Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

Team Fortress 2


Fixed backburner's flame critical hits not being recalculated after collision. This meant that it would check if the target was looking away once and after that the flame could score a critical hit again even if the orientation changed

Added back some damage falloff to the Pyro's flamethrower. Not nearly as extreme as it was before the Pyro class pack

Fixed bug that caused Demomen to take a small amount of extra damage from their own grenades and fly farther using them

Fixed spy getting stuck in players after removing his disguise

Fixed spy stabbing and being able to go invisible instantly

Fixed spy disguised as enemy medic being able to spam voice commands

Fixed buffed health not decaying properly after being healed by a dispenser

Selectable menus can now be operated with number keys even if they are not bound to slot1, slot2, etc.

Removed the remaining speed adjustments for carrying intelligence (a couple of game modes still reduced your maxspeed)

Fixed a buildable item placement bug where the object would not rotate after the user tried to place in an invalid location

 

[ElectricBlue187]

anybody got the TF2 GAF server IP?

 

[Volcynika]

anybody got the TF2 GAF server IP?

Spoiler

It's at the top of the Online/Matchup Forum

8.9.8.54:27015

 

[Davidion]

Update:

Fixed backburner's flame critical hits not being recalculated after collision. This meant that it would check if the target was looking away once and after that the flame could score a critical hit again even if the orientation changed

Holy shit, they made the backburner more powerful. :lol

At least they tuned down the damage dropoff.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Spoiler

It's at the top of the Online/Matchup Forum

8.9.8.54:27015

I may be blind but at least I asked in the right place!

thank you.

 

[MrPing1000]

That's why ubercharge is in the game. An ubered Demoman = dead sentries.

See thats the thing, even that doesn't particular work when theres 4 + sentries. Goldrush is the perfect example of how broken sentries are imo. Even an ubered demoman will struggle to kill more than 2.

I don't blame engineers for how they play but I couldn't play like that, I'd get bored. Sitting behind your sentry hitting it constantly is not what I'd consider a fun gameplay, but it's a sensible strategy really.

I'd like to see them change tracking speed so outside their 180degree sweap it is slower than a scout running and create sentry area preventing other sentries from being created within 10 feet of another. Oh and make demoman stickbombs stick to deployables instead of bouncing off them.

That would promote smart positioning and stop the sentry stacking that has been happening more and more from my experience anyway, dustbowl is a repeat offender. I've actually seen 4 friggin sentries all in that little alcove. Of course when they're stacked like that 1 demoman can kill them all, but in that alcove if they are placed on the edge the damn stickies have a habit of bouncing off.


Maybe my bias is affecting my judgement but I don't have a lot of time for people that only play engineer. Maybe it's just a teamplay thing, In a perfect world you could have a spy sap which is then followed by a demoman with medic, managed that a few times but it rarely occurs. In my world they wouldn't even turn outside their 180 degree sweep.

 

[Won]

Fixed spy getting stuck in players after removing his disguise

I CAN'T BE?!

 

[LouieGeetoo]

I got really excited when I saw this. I went Spy and was disguised as a Sniper, all ready to sneak in behind them and stab away. Alas, a Pyro and a few others got to them first. I did get in some good stabs in that room during Sudden Death, though. Nothing more satisfying than a solid backstab.

As for sentries, it's always possible to take them down in one way or another. I will admit that in cases where there are like 4 sentries at once, it'll require a lot of coordination on the attacking team's part. It's possible, though. For example, a few Spies can go in and sap while an uber or two follow immediately and catch the Engies off-guard. If anything, sentries promote teamwork.

Playing engineer does get boring fast if you just sit behind your sentry and wait. However, if you play a little smarter and help out the team with good teleporter placement and such, it can be a lot more engaging. Just ask Javaman. Like with any class, there are a few different effective ways of playing.

Need one more achievement to unlock the Backburner and experience its brokenness firsthand. You'd all better be playing tonight.

 

[Volcynika]

I got really excited when I saw this. I went Spy and was disguised as a Sniper, all ready to sneak in behind them and stab away. Alas, a Pyro and a few others got to them first. I did get in some good stabs in that room during Sudden Death, though. Nothing more satisfying than a solid backstab.

Louie was EPIC SPY last night, indeed.

 

[PillowKnight]

See thats the thing, even that doesn't particular work when theres 4 + sentries. Goldrush is the perfect example of how broken sentries are imo. Even an ubered demoman will struggle to kill more than 2.

I don't blame engineers for how they play but I couldn't play like that, I'd get bored. Sitting behind your sentry hitting it constantly is not what I'd consider a fun gameplay, but it's a sensible strategy really.

I'd like to see them change tracking speed so outside their 180degree sweap it is slower than a scout running and create sentry area preventing other sentries from being created within 10 feet of another. Oh and make demoman stickbombs stick to deployables instead of bouncing off them.

That would promote smart positioning and stop the sentry stacking that has been happening more and more from my experience anyway, dustbowl is a repeat offender. I've actually seen 4 friggin sentries all in that little alcove. Of course when they're stacked like that 1 demoman can kill them all, but in that alcove if they are placed on the edge the damn stickies have a habit of bouncing off.


Maybe my bias is affecting my judgement but I don't have a lot of time for people that only play engineer. Maybe it's just a teamplay thing, In a perfect world you could have a spy sap which is then followed by a demoman with medic, managed that a few times but it rarely occurs. In my world they wouldn't even turn outside their 180 degree sweep.

Say it with me ; teamwork. Coordinate with your team, uber rushes in, distracts the sentries. Team then follows and deals with the rest of the sentries. At this point the opposing team is punished heavily for having 4-5 engineers, since they have aprox 6 or so actual melee to stop your rush. Even further than that, with that many engies on the team most of the other classes should be having a hard time being outnumbered, this opens the opposition up to offensive sentries pushing them in.

Given that there isn't any sentry in the game that can't be destroyed with ease by a demo/soldier, sentries are just fine, if not a bit underpowered.

 

[Volcynika]

Engineer's achievements should unlock a sentry with a LASER CANNON...

A man can dream!

 

[Won]

Say it with me ; teamwork. Coordinate with your team, uber rushes in, distracts the sentries. Team then follows and deals with the rest of the sentries. At this point the opposing team is punished heavily for having 4-5 engineers, since they have aprox 6 or so actual melee to stop your rush. Even further than that, with that many engies on the team most of the other classes should be having a hard time being outnumbered, this opens the opposition up to offensive sentries pushing them in.

Given that there isn't any sentry in the game that can't be destroyed with ease by a demo/soldier, sentries are just fine, if not a bit underpowered.

Say it with me ; public randoms.

Imo sentries at the moment are the biggest problem on Goldrush 1- 2. So many good places...if you try to kill one with an Uber, another will push you away and kill the minute build up for the Uber. There is often just not enough time to chop down a sentry forest on a public server, even with teamwork.

 

[PillowKnight]

Say it with me ; public randoms.

Imo sentries at the moment are the biggest problem on Goldrush 1- 2. So many good places...if you try to kill one with an Uber, another will push you away and kill the minute build up for the Uber. There is often just not enough time to chop down a sentry forest on a public server, even with teamwork.

Meh, you make it sound as if these are one armed retards you're talking about. Talk to them, they're not all dumb. If they're at the point of frustration, odds are they're either gone or they're willing to listen.

Actually, it would be much easier for both of you to make your point if you had screen shots of these amazing sentry set ups.

 

[No Means Nomad]

Holy shit, they made the backburner more powerful. :lol

Sounds less powerful to me. It means they can't keep the crit running after they get the initial surprise on one person even if they attack a group that turns around.

 

[Won]

Meh, you make it sound as if these are one armed retards you're talking about. Talk to them, they're not all dumb. If they're at the point of frustration, odds are they're either gone or they're willing to listen.

Actually, it would be much easier for both of you to make your point if you had screen shots of these amazing sentry set ups.

But they aren't at the point of frustration....I am....they still play the "3 engineer on offensive with Pyros against the sentries" tactic and have fun.....and then they are back to "YEEHAA DEFENDING!"

Screenshots? Too much work for this time of the day.

But here a fast paintshop. I think you know the marked position. You can't attack two at once, because of the distance and different levels. They cover basically everything, while Sniper cover the hot zone.

Now add a 4th or 5th to this set up and you won't break through within the timelimit. The amount of needed teamwork on both sides are in this situation just not balanced.

 

[PillowKnight]

But they aren't at the point of frustration....I am....they still play the "3 engineer on offensive with Pyros against the sentries" tactic and have fun.....and then they are back to "YEEHAA DEFENDING!"

Screenshots? Too much work for this time of the day.

But here a fast paintshop. I think you know the marked position. You can't attack two at once, because of the distance and different levels. They cover basically everything, while Sniper cover the hot zone.

Now add a 4th or 5th to this set up and you won't break through within the timelimit. The amount of needed teamwork on both sides are in this situation just not balanced.

I actually played against this not too long ago, except there were five sentries instead of three. Three spread out in the room where the SE most dot is. We did win, a pyro of ours rushed the three sentries up top with a soldier tailing. Then the other two were pretty much just fodder. A demo could've done it without an uber, but it is very tricky.

So I disagree, it takes one demoman to bring down that first sentry, even if the engies rush the Demo a few well placed stickies can deal with them. A single soldier can easily destroy every sentry in your picture, although for a five sentry set up a demo is required for the first two.

 

[MrPing1000]

Engineer's achievements should unlock a sentry with a LASER CANNON...

A man can dream!

Obelisk of Light!

 

[Won]

I actually played against this not too long ago, except there were five sentries instead of three. Three spread out in the room where the SE most dot is. We did win, a pyro of ours rushed the three sentries up top with a soldier tailing. Then the other two were pretty much just fodder. A demo could've done it without an uber, but it is very tricky.

So I disagree, it takes one demoman to bring down that first sentry, even if the engies rush the Demo a few well placed stickies can deal with them. A single soldier can easily destroy every sentry in your picture, although for a five sentry set up a demo is required for the first two.

Oh I have won lot of games with any setups but just to be honest, if there are 3 sentries in that one room you faced a horrible team. (Really...never saw three sentries up there....)

 

[PillowKnight]

Oh I have won lot of games with any setups but just to be honest, if there are 3 sentries in that one room you faced a horrible team. (Really...never saw three sentries up there....)

Nope, the three engies helped each other. The three guys up there were very good players, had they been playing actual classes we wouldve had a tougher time.

 

[Won]

It is still unbalanced. The heat map proves it.

Now time for some sleep, its 4 a.m!

 

[PillowKnight]

It is still unbalanced. The heat map proves it.

Now time for some sleep, its 4 a.m!

All the heat map proves is that this is a contested area. If you hold that point you win the match, so it's no wonder that it's such a highly contested area.

 

[rakka]

damn reserved slots

they never work

 

[Kade]

Ragequit due to spawn camping.

 

[rakka]

Ragequit due to spawn camping.

i call it red defending well

(i was on blue too for the short time i could play)

 

[Twig]

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670

Heavy confirmed for next update!

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Ragequit due to spawn camping.

You guys deserved it after getting that cheap cap when a shit-ton of people got booted off

 

[Yaweee]

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670

Heavy confirmed for next update!

I didn't see that coming. I totally thought it would be Demo or Spy.

Question: What is the PW for the official GAF server? I can't find it anywhere...

 

[LouieGeetoo]

I didn't see that coming. I totally thought it would be Demo or Spy.

Question: What is the PW for the official GAF server? I can't find it anywhere...

believe

(Mouse over the banner on the top of the Online forum.)

 

[PillowKnight]

You guys deserved it after getting that cheap cap when a shit-ton of people got booted off

We had that win locked up either way . Oh and our team was filled with one armed retards for that round. Even after the uber 1/2 of the team still stayed inside relaxing.

Oh and Valve gets it ;
Heavy skill set :

-Being in the right place before he starts firing, because he has little ability to move while firing.

-Good anticipation of enemy behavior, for both the above point and because his minigun needs to be spun up before firing.

-The ability to estimate the amount of damage he's taking. It takes time for the minigun to spin down, so he needs to be able to know when it's time to retreat several seconds before his health has run out.

-The ability to keep firing at a target while still keeping an eye out for other dangers, in particular Snipers & Spies.

And on the off chance that someone at valve read this, that blog's awesome, really enjoying it.

I'm surprised they aren't doing the scout though.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Won, damn. Earlier the man was like the invincible spy. Every time I turned around somebody had been back-stabbed. D:

Kinda felt bad about that spawn camping that happened earlier. This is war though. I'm surprised you all didn't go 2/4ths pyro and heavy, and the other half medics, switched on ubers and annihilated us all.

Good games all around though.

 

[Sciz]

Goal: Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with.

I await your outpouring of love and wonderment with open arms and a minigun, Valve.

Which I will then use to mow down the inevitable horde of pretenders.

 

[VaLiancY]

This is exactly why I love Valve with their treatment to TF2. They see a problem, they solve it. They see something that is not utilized to its fullest degree, they tweak it. And it doesn't take an eon to release also. They made Pyro more deadlier(don't hurt me), they helped bring popularity to the Medic.

Best $50 bucks I spent on a FPS ever.

 

[No Means Nomad]

All the heat map proves is that this is a contested area. If you hold that point you win the match, so it's no wonder that it's such a highly contested area.

It should be viable for teams to set up at multiple points along the route, not just turtle at their base.

 

[Won]

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670

Heavy confirmed for next update!

Uh more insight into Valves dev process.
At the moment I try to imagine how this goes down at other companies.

Bungie:"How about a Shotgun-pistol? And you can dual-wield it!""Sounds great! Lets put it everywhere on the map!"

Epic:"Chainsaw! On a gun!""FUCK YEAH!"

So a minigun with reduced health it will be.

All the heat map proves is that this is a contested area. If you hold that point you win the match, so it's no wonder that it's such a highly contested area.

Sure, buuuuuuuut....

Check the Dustbowl heat map, then check the Gold Rush heat map, then check the win ratios of all maps, then check the Gold Rush heat map again.

I only know there is red dot over my bed.....way to hot once again to sleep for me. -.-

Won, damn. Earlier the man was like the invincible spy. Every time I turned around somebody had been back-stabbed. D:

Hmm only had a K ratio of 1:1 tonight.....
But lots of free points standing around on Well.

 

[Cheeto]

Uh more insight into Valves dev process.
At the moment I try to imagine how this goes down at other companies.

Bungie:"How about a Shotgun-pistol? And you can dual-wield it!""Sounds great! Lets put it everywhere on the map!"

Epic:"Chainsaw! On a gun!""FUCK YEAH!"

:lol

I love this blog btw.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Uh more insight into Valves dev process.
At the moment I try to imagine how this goes down at other companies.

Bungie:"How about a Shotgun-pistol? And you can dual-wield it!""Sounds great! Lets put it everywhere on the map!"

Epic:"Chainsaw! On a gun!""FUCK YEAH!"

:lol

Hmm only had a K ratio of 1:1 tonight.....
But lots of free points standing around on Well.

:lol :lol

Yea, I was talking about earlier in the day. Must have been well. Whatever it was...D:

 

[PillowKnight]

Sure, buuuuuuuut....

Check the Dustbowl heat map, then check the Gold Rush heat map, then check the win ratios of all maps, then check the Gold Rush heat map again.

I only know there is red dot over my bed.....way to hot once again to sleep for me. -.-



Hmm only had a K ratio of 1:1 tonight.....
But lots of free points standing around on Well.

Hmm looking at it, maybe you should check it again. None of the red spots coincide with a sentrie's LOS, the red seems to be situated at that chokepoint, where heavies/demos camp, where snipers generally stand and get counter sniped . If sentries were truly overpowered perhaps you'd see red at the places where sentries overlook. Anyways, there's really only so much info you can get from this heatmap. Common sentry kill spots are also common snipe spots. I haven't checked the dustbowl ones though.

 

[No Means Nomad]

Hmm looking at it, maybe you should check it again. None of the red spots coincide with a sentrie's LOS, the red seems to be situated at that chokepoint, where heavies/demos camp, where snipers generally stand and get counter sniped . If sentries were truly overpowered perhaps you'd see red at the places where sentries overlook. Anyways, there's really only so much info you can get from this heatmap. Common sentry kill spots are also common snipe spots. I haven't checked the dustbowl ones though.

It's the fact that sentries force players to all go through that same little area making them easy pickings for every other class.

 

[Won]

Hmm looking at it, maybe you should check it again. None of the red spots coincide with a sentrie's LOS, the red seems to be situated at that chokepoint, where heavies/demos camp, where snipers generally stand and get counter sniped . If sentries were truly overpowered perhaps you'd see red at the places where sentries overlook. Anyways, there's really only so much info you can get from this heatmap. Common sentry kill spots are also common snipe spots.

Oh Sentries do a good part there. Both of the right sentries on my map shoot at the stairs north of the left black dot, preventing any progress there. And the left sentry controls the area, where the cart comes out. They don't necessarly kill, but they "control", forcing most of the people in this hell hole.

The point I try to make is more about Gold Rush. Dustbowl has several red spots on all three parts. Gold Rush has only this one, with barely something green in the other parts.
My experience is just that the sentries stop the progress too easily there. Maybe not directly, but they do.

 

[PillowKnight]

Oh Sentries do a good part there. Both of the right sentries on my map shoot at the stairs north of the left black dot, preventing any progress there. And the left sentry controls the area, where the cart comes out. They don't necessarly kill, but they "control", forcing most of the people in this hell hole.

The point I try to make is more about Gold Rush. Dustbowl has several red spots on all three parts. Gold Rush has only this one, with barely something green in the other parts.
My experience is just that the sentries stop the progress too easily there. Maybe not directly, but they do.

Why bring up the heat map if the sentries "don't necessarily kill"? I agree though sentries stop progress, as they should, that's their role in TF2. I'm not sure what you guys want sentries to be. As it stands now, the sentry's role is territory control, knowing this the sentry's still easily destroyed by its counter classes, and even moreso by ubercharges. Of the sentries shown there, all of them can be destroyed from at least two locations.

Anyways here's the entire goldrush map with all the popular/effective sentry locations :

There's little to no correlation between sentry location and player deaths. Most of the heavier death counts tend to happen at choke points and along the cart tracks. At map two we see something that resembles a sentry influenced kill rack, while the sentries do add to it we can see that the heat source spreads even further than the sentry's range.

I could do dustbowl but it looks similar to this, most of the red parts are on choke points, not at popular sentry locations.

If, after this, you still think sentries are overpowered. Tell me this, what do you think sentrie's role should be?

PS: I can't seem to write today, so those paragraphs up top may or may not be written with the right words.

 

[Sciz]

The problem isn't with the role of the sentry, but their execution. They're exponentially more powerful in groups, and encourage a stalemate-inducing turtle strategy. The concept is fine, but I can't help but think that they'd be better off weaker, cheaper, and faster building. Something that doesn't need babysitting because it isn't too precious to lose.

 

[Won]

Yeah we lost focus there a bit.

They starting problem was a "sentry forest". A situation, where no matter what you do, a sentry will shoot at you and if ubered push you back.
I brought up the Gold Rush heat map, because it shows how big the "lockdown" effect is and if you look at the stats you see that BLU struggles big time to overcome it. And if you are able to finally get rid of one you bump into 2 other sentries and with all the metal, dispenser and other engineers around a level 3 sentry is back up in few seconds.

A Spy is useless in such a situation, so your only option is an Uber and that takes time...way more time to rebuild a sentry. There is imo a balance issue at the moment.

 

[PillowKnight]

The problem isn't with the role of the sentry, but their execution. They're exponentially more powerful in groups, and encourage a stalemate-inducing turtle strategy. The concept is fine, but I can't help but think that they'd be better off weaker, cheaper, and faster building. Something that doesn't need babysitting because it isn't too precious to lose.

How would this effect the sentry's "Exponential" power in numbers? Also how would this stop it from encouraging a stalemate-inducing turtle strategy? Surely you're suggesting that they make sentries so weak that pyros/scouts could take them on, at that point you may as well just wipe engineers from the game.

Won , yeah we did get sidetracked. Still, show me a sentry forest that has no opening and i'll agree with you. The one you had last time had multiple openings. Although, I'll state right now that IMO none exist, soldiers can get to any long range sentry, demos can get to any sentry inside cover, and as it stands now pyros can destroy sentries around corners.

Although, it sounds as if players are merely having trouble adapting to TF2's meta game. Multiple sentries should not be overwhelming, and hopefully players will learn how to deal with sentries. I wonder if it'd be useful to put up a sentry killing tutorial for newbies.