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Team Fortress 2 Official PC Thread. SO. WORTH. IT.

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Sibylus

Banned
evlcookie said:
I'm all for this system but as you said, it isn't implemented yet. So why remove items from those who have idled?
Because if they weren't removed, the warning would have been impotent. Be honest, do you think a warning along the lines of "delete your idle-prog hats or else" would have been very effective? Hell, some people have lost track of which of their items were from in-game or not.

The problem is valve created a flawed system. Had item trading been in place since day 1 we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Valve fucked up and since we are on valve time, who knows when we would get the trading system. The community found a way around a flawed system with poor drop rates and now valve is trying to regain control.

Idling also isn't cheating. Cheating would suggest you gain an unfair advantage over players during a game. Hats never gave you a bonus, weapons didn't give you any advantage over anyone else, you weren't invincible and so on.
The item system may have never worked as well as it does now without large community feedback to gradually shape it. Sure, it might be possible for Valve to gauge just exactly what's needed from their inner testing, but at some point they'd have to let the community tear it apart and build it up. Proper drop rates, proper item values, proper trade systems, that's not easy stuff to get right without letting a lot of people stress test it.

Not so much cheating in-game, more or less "cheating" Valve's server systems and service rules. I didn't get involved because it smelled bad from day one.
 

Twig

Banned
Punishment. Not warning.

lewl

If they had simply warned, people would have stopped using it. You know that's true!

And furthermore, they had the chance to publicly warn from day one. There's no way they weren't aware of this program from day one. No way! Instead they opted to let it grow in popularity until literally 11000 people were using it daily.

P.S. I swear I'm not bitching even though it sounds like I am. I'm trying to be objective!! I swear. )': )':
 

Sibylus

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
Punishment. Not warning.

lewl

If they had simply warned, people would have stopped using it. You know that's true!
Uh, bull? :lol People would have kept on using it until they got all of their items wiped out, I'm sure. Valve warning them that this was going to be bad for them, but letting them keep their ill-gotten gains, that would have totally undercut the effectiveness of the message. More than a few idlers would interpret Valve as bluffing or being outright incapable of enforcing the warning. But by removing all the ill-gotten items and issuing the warning, the program itself has been shut down and the issue with the prog is settled.

And furthermore, they had the chance to publicly warn from day one. There's no way they weren't aware of this program from day one. No way! Instead they opted to let it grow in popularity until literally 11000 people were using it daily.

P.S. I swear I'm not bitching even though it sounds like I am. I'm trying to be objective!! I swear. )': )':
Well, it's pretty obvious policy on it and what they were going to do about it wasn't nailed down until recently (blog says as much). Them saying "don't do it" from Day 1 while working on methods to counteract it won't scare people off of it. Wait until you're ready and let everyone know you're capable of punishment.
 

Twig

Banned
Botolf said:
Uh, bull? :lol People would have kept on using it until they got all of their items wiped out, I'm sure. Valve warning them that this was going to be bad for them, but letting them keep their ill-gotten gains, that would have totally undercut the effectiveness of the message. More than a few idlers would interpret Valve as bluffing or being outright incapable of enforcing the warning. But by removing all the ill-gotten items and issuing the warning, the program itself has been shut down and the issue with the prog is settled.


Well, it's pretty obvious policy on it and what they were going to do about it wasn't nailed down until recently (blog says as much). Them saying "don't do it" from Day 1 while working on methods to counteract it won't scare people off of it. Wait until you're ready and let everyone know you're capable of punishment.
Bull on you. I'd bet large amounts of money it would've scared a lot of people out of using it. And I'd win. Especially after they'd previously wiped shit from people who used the achievement unlocker. Even if it was for only two weeks, it set a precedent.

Deny it if you want, but you're fucking wrong here. This isn't even subjective anymore.

Haha it's kind of ironic the achievement unlocker punishment, which was actually cheating was less severe than the idle program punishment, which was completely benign.
 

Sibylus

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
Deny it if you want, but you're fucking wrong here. This isn't even subjective anymore.
Keep troleing along, mang.

Haha it's kind of ironic the achievement unlocker punishment, which was actually cheating was less severe than the idle program punishment, which was completely benign.
And I have good reasons for disagreeing. Completely benign is a ridiculous exaggeration. The potential for abuse was high, and from day one the program tread into risky territory (especially on the user's end). 4.5% of players smelled something foul and journeyed on anyway.
 

Twig

Banned
Botolf said:
Keep troleing along, mang.
I ain't trollin'. You are wrong.
And I have good reasons for disagreeing. Completely benign is a ridiculous exaggeration. The potential for abuse was high, and from day one the program tread into risky territory (especially on the user's end). 4.5% of players smelled something foul and journeyed on anyway.
Bullllllllllshit. It was completely benign. It offered zero advantage over going in the game and sitting in an idle server.

If it had hacked the chance to get a hat, somehow (which I doubt is even POSSIBLE, short of hacking into Valve's no doubt more secure than "faking" a server), then I would completely agree with you. It didn't. Potential for abuse does not equal abuse.

If I walk into a store with really baggy clothes, should I be punished for potentially hiding some silverware under my shirt?

Name one harmful thing this program did. One. And I'm not talking about your hypothetical, anecdotal blanket statements "if someone's in a real idle server they're more likely to be near a computer" nonsense. I'm talking real harm.

I honestly don't see what's so hard to get about this. It's like you're being intentionally stubborn. Maybe you're the troll here. O:
 
1. People use 3rd party program to exploit ingame system.
2. People get into trouble for it.

this concept is hard to understand for people how again?

these kind of people probably get butthurt over map hack bans on battle.net I bet, "bubububu running is teh hard!"

Im so glad this happened, I wish it was a vac ban also, just because I'm a prick and it makes me giggle watching the RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.


P.S. i've never used an idle server, or achievement server so im TeH 1337
 

Twig

Banned
ZombieSupaStar said:
3rd party unauthorized program spoofing a server to gain, in game rewards
benign

EDIT: I guess what I'm getting at is, people like you, who get all high and mighty because you didn't "cheat", amuse me just as much as people like those in the HealersAgainstHalos group, who get all high and mighty because they're PROUD of idling (really? proud?! that's sad).

It's all good times for me.
 
Users wouldn't have had to result to exploiting the game in the first place if the items themselves were not stupid to unlock in the first place. Also, it's not like it affected game play.
 
TheOneGuy said:

*rubs halo over his manly chest chairs*




feels sooooo nice.



I wonder what I'll get for never even joining an achievement server as well, maybe an in game high horse mount?


your rage is delicious twig, give me moar!
smug.gif
 

Twig

Banned
ZombieSupaStar said:
I wonder what I'll get for never even joining an achievement server as well, maybe an in game high horse mount?
I would think a fellow griefer and troll like you would take pride in going to a cheesemint server and griefing the people there.

I'm ashamed FOR you. ):
 

Sibylus

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
I ain't trollin'. You are wrong.

Bullllllllllshit. It was completely benign.
I just can't take you seriously when you say stuff like this :lol

I've said it about a dozen times already, but I'll say it again: a third-party program faking servers so that users don't have to run the game in question, that is NOT benign. This program was developed without any consent/blessing from Valve, and it oversteps a hell of a lot of boundaries. What a player does in a custom map in the game is his business, they're operating well within the rights they possess with the game and the services, but the idle program is wholly different. It operates outside of the game, outside of the services, yet it fools those services into granting people benefits within the game. I'm not just being metaphorical here, it's absolutely a manipulation of the system Valve has set up. In-game boons were set up to be won in-game. Period.

In addition to the above, any users using it also open up themselves to all manners of attack or account wankery. The program was bad news and we're better off with it gone. PERIODWITHAPERIODATTACHED.
 

Twig

Banned
Botolf said:
I've said it about a dozen times already, but I'll say it again: a third-party program faking servers so that users don't have to run the game in question, that is NOT benign.
And you can say it another dozen and you'll still be wrong.

Maybe you have a different definition for benign than the one I've known all my life. Example: you can have a benign virus.

I get what you're saying that it was out of game. I totally do. I get that you don't approve of it. I get that VALVE doesn't approve of it. All that is fine, and I accept it.

But it was the exact same fucking goddamn fucking piece of shit fucking result no matter which way you went about it. It harmed the game in no way whatsoever. PERIODFUCKING. d:
 

Sibylus

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
And you can say it another dozen and you'll still be wrong.

Maybe you have a different definition for benign than the one I've known all my life. Example: you can have a benign virus.
It didn't impact me personally, that doesn't mean that it was benign. It was a big thorn in the side of Valve and the system they created.

And as for your virus analogy, same deal. You can be a carrier and not fall ill yourself, but other people will still suffer.

OH SCHNAPZ COSMIC PERSPECTIVE BITCH

Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_-_NAC_Nov_2005.jpg


END TRANSMISSION

BEGIN SCREENSHOT TRANSMISSION OF HALOS PLAYING JUMPROPE
 

Twig

Banned
Botolf said:
And as for your virus analogy, same deal. You can be a carrier and not fall ill yourself, but other people will still suffer.
BUT nothing suffered here, except Valve's pride.

P.S. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about cosmic wossnames but I always approve of Neil deGrasse Tyson. It appears we have reached an agreement.
 

Twig

Banned
What point of view is that? O: O:

I didn't think there was one, unless it's complete and utter apathy! Which wouldn't account for the amusement!!

And now it's time to do some pixel art.
 
Engie's gonna trip! :lol


Firestorm said:
Cheaters don't get warned. They get dealt with.

The idle program in no way increased the odds of people unlocking items. It's not even comparable to the achievement unlocker in that regard. The only thing it did was remove some of the overhead for a braindead, pointless process, for an unlocking system so far entirely based on "be online in game."

It was an external program that tricked servers into thinking it was TF2. That's bad. It didn't "cheat" anything, though. Hence opening the game and getting a pleasant "YOU HAVE BEEN MARKED FOR CHEATING" message and them including a hat specifically designed to flip you off... I really don't know why Valve decided they wanted the drama. And nearly all that "cheating" was just so people could have some of the fun hats they've been showing off.
 

Twig

Banned
Kulock said:
The idle program in no way increased the odds of people unlocking items. It's not even comparable to the achievement unlocker in that regard. The only thing it did was remove some of the overhead for a braindead, pointless process, for an unlocking system so far entirely based on "be online in game."

It was an external program that tricked servers into thinking it was TF2. That's bad. It didn't "cheat" anything, though. Hence opening the game and getting a pleasant "YOU HAVE BEEN MARKED FOR CHEATING" message and them including a hat specifically designed to flip you off... I really don't know why Valve decided they wanted the drama. And nearly all that "cheating" was just so people could have some of the fun hats they've been showing off.
Give up, man, they're set in their opinion as much as we're set in ours.

It's over and done with anyway. Not like we're gonna convince Valve that we weren't cheating, even if by all sensible logic we weren't. Shit happens. Life goes on.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
I'm with Botolf in wishing there were lots of alt hats and costumes. I think it'd be neat if you could spot individual players just by glancing at them from a distance. This way if you had two identical classes grouped together, and you recognized immediately one was a AAA death merchant, you'd wouldn't waste a nanosecond in choosing who to target first.
 

Twig

Banned
1-D_FTW said:
I'm with Botolf in wishing there were lots of alt hats and costumes. I think it'd be neat if you could spot individual players just by glancing at them from a distance. This way if you had two identical classes grouped together, and you recognized immediately one was a AAA death merchant, you'd wouldn't waste a nanosecond in choosing who to target first.
Yeah, BUT, with such a large part of their original game design focusing on Recognizable Shapes for the classes, they can't change things too much.

But random decorations here and there shouldn't hurt that design, I don't think. As long as the silhouette remains largely the same.
 

Sibylus

Banned
There's thousands of potential pieces of headgear or hats that would fit in with the general silhouettes of the stuff already out there. I would think so, at least.

Yay human head-diaper culture!
 

1-D_FTW

Member
I love the silhouette design. It's ingenious and shouldn't be messed with. But if you had lots of unique costumes, you could them immediately recognize your nemesis with a quick visual glance.

If you turn a corner and run into 2 demomen. One who will kill you immediately and one who's a scrub... it'd be nice to immediately prioritize because of visual cues.
 

Twig

Banned
1-D_FTW said:
I love the silhouette design. It's ingenious and shouldn't be messed with. But if you had lots of unique costumes, you could them immediately recognize your nemesis with a quick visual glance.

If you turn a corner and run into 2 demomen. One who will kill you immediately and one who's a scrub... it'd be nice to immediately prioritize because of visual cues.
Yeah I agree.

I know Valve at least mentioned the possibility of non-hat clothing items in the future, too. The soldier medal was the first one (but limited to a small amount of people, stupidly.)
 

Twig

Banned
MNC said:
Also apparently, halos can be found. So idlers will probably get them too anyway :lol
I don't think that's true. At least, from what I've heard, some of the non-idlers didn't get the halo until they played for a bit and "found" it. Maybe that's what you saw? Or someone else saw.

If not, then!!
 

Inkwell

Banned
TheOneGuy said:

I, and everyone else, understands that using the idle program to earn hats did not harm the game in any way or give players any type of unfair advantage. Guess what? Valve does too. That's why the punishment was not very severe at all. Using that third-party program was still bad though. Plus, let me say that earning hats through something like achievements would be incredibly stupid. There would just be achievement servers. Any way to "earn" a hat could be exploited in some way.

TheOneGuy said:
P.S. the value is in their awesomeness, not their rarity. Making them not rare only pisses off the people who like to brag NYAH NYAH I'M BETTER THAN YOUUUUU

No. I never saw anyone bragging about getting a hat. Most people seemed to congratulate anyone who found one. I honestly think that was you projecting that on other people. Let me say this as well. It's their awesomeness and rarity that makes the hats so great.

One final thing. People keep saying the whole situation is Valve's fault for not implementing a full system with trading and crafting. What the hell is wrong with you? You act like Valve owes you something when they don't. It's also childish. "Valve didn't do things perfectly so I thought cheating (exploiting may be the better term) the system would be OK." That's what you're saying, and it does not make sense or seem logical in the slightest.
 

Twig

Banned
Inkwell said:
I, and everyone else, understands that using the idle program to earn hats did not harm the game in any way or give players any type of unfair advantage. Guess what? Valve does too. That's why the punishment was not very severe at all. Using that third-party program was still bad though. Plus, let me say that earning hats through something like achievements would be incredibly stupid. There would just be achievement servers. Any way to "earn" a hat could be exploited in some way.
I don't think you understand how little I care about exploiting. If people want to do it, more power to 'em. But what I was doing was no worse than going to a cheesemint server. QQ more.

I do what's fun. I LIKE unlocking things through cheesemints. It is ENJOYABLE to me. I LIKE earning things. It is ENJOYABLE to me. It's not like the random drops would go away if you still want to sit there sitting on your hands hoping you get something this week.

So get off your fucking high horse. We are all PC gamers. We should be celebrating this.

9i8g3n.jpg


P.S. if you don't konw who that is your pc gaming license is revoked by the conglomeration of pc gamers official confirmed now
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
Losing hats isn't severe. Severe would be VAC banned.

I'm glad Valve had the balls to do this and punish the people who played the system by not playing. I hope they're working on a backend to destroy people who've been using idle servers aswell.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Just goes to show how much materialism bullshit has penetrated into our psyche that we're getting caught up in arms over mere hats to an in-game character that do absolutely nothing. What Valve do or don't do to this game is not up to our discretion outside of lavished praise or vocal criticism - you paid for the product initially and the transaction is over making Valve's bank account happy, let alone the several thousand people still playing this game everyday regardless of changes.
 

Inkwell

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
I don't think you understand how little I care about exploiting. If people want to do it, more power to 'em. But what I was doing was no worse than going to a cheesemint server. QQ more.

So you argue about the whole situation for over a page... and now you don't care? :lol

I do what's fun. I LIKE unlocking things through cheesemints. It is ENJOYABLE to me. I LIKE earning things. It is ENJOYABLE to me. It's not like the random drops would go away if you still want to sit there sitting on your hands hoping you get something this week.

I like unlocking items through achievements too. I think it's fun.

speedpop said:
Just goes to show how much materialism bullshit has penetrated into our psyche that we're getting caught up in arms over mere hats to an in-game character that do absolutely nothing. What Valve do or don't do to this game is not up to our discretion outside of lavished praise or vocal criticism - you paid for the product initially and the transaction is over making Valve's bank account happy, let alone the several thousand people still playing this game everyday regardless of changes.

Just thought I would emphasize your post.
 

Twig

Banned
speedpop said:
Just goes to show how much materialism bullshit has penetrated into our psyche that we're getting caught up in arms over mere hats to an in-game character that do absolutely nothing.
Haha true.

Though to be perfectly honest I object only to the way Valve handled this situation, and I would be regardless of if I had used the program or not. I had no real complaints about the drop system. I mean I knew it was a terrible drop system, but I was prepared to wait my turn. It's just that the program was not harmful in any way so I figured why not.

ALTHOUGH i wouldn't have even bothered if capndrake hadn't brought it up last week ):
 

Blizzard

Banned
Lyphen said:
Losing hats isn't severe. Severe would be VAC banned.

I'm glad Valve had the balls to do this and punish the people who played the system by not playing. I hope they're working on a backend to destroy people who've been using idle servers aswell.
My problem with the idle server thing is that it's just a custom map. You're using an actual official TF2 server program with the actual official TF2 SDK and an actual official TF2 client. There's no sort of external command-line utility, it's just you deciding to do what you want on a map.

Do you really want Valve to try to figure out who is on a 2fort server sitting in spawn (and thus who should be "destroyed" according to you), vs. who is sitting on a 2fort server and just goofing off without killing people? Why do you care what people do in the actual game on a different server, as long as they're not goofing off while on your team?
 

Twig

Banned
Inkwell said:
So you argue about the whole situation for over a page... and now you don't care? :lol
Uh, I said "I don't care if people exploit."

What's that got to do with what I was arguing about?

Please try not to be an idiot.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
Blizzard said:
My problem with the idle server thing is that it's just a custom map. You're using an actual official TF2 server program with the actual official TF2 SDK and an actual official TF2 client. There's no sort of external command-line utility, it's just you deciding to do what you want on a map.

Do you really want Valve to try to figure out who is on a 2fort server sitting in spawn (and thus who should be "destroyed" according to you), vs. who is sitting on a 2fort server and just goofing off without killing people? Why do you care what people do in the actual game on a different server, as long as they're not goofing off while on your team?
I suppose the easiest way would be to simply implement an idle-kick system into TF2 (without relying on SourceMod votekicks and such) and state on the get-go that bypassing this system, through use of timed macros will result in a ban. But the deeper we delve into this, the same conclusion is always achieved. For sad souls to actually find idling to be a reasonable thing to do...Valve really messed this up. The backpack was brought out what, 5 months ago? Still no trading system or way to influence drops?

The second the drop system was put out, I thought "man, why can't we just buy them with points?" and the answer I got was "we think there'd be too many ways to cheat that system". And just look at where we are now.
 

Inkwell

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
Uh, I said "I don't care if people exploit."

What's that got to do with what I was arguing about?

Please try not to be an idiot.

Oh, I'm sorry. I misread your post. Calling me an idiot was uncalled for though.
 

Proven

Member
What bothers me the most about this is how I can't believe that these PC gamers, much of which laugh at people playing on consoles, on MMOs or "inferior games" are so god damn elitist that they're also entitlement douchebags. Really? Someone else got a free handout, that's not life or death, that's not advantageous or disadvantageous, and everyone else rages for one? It's like getting a free candy from somewhere, giving it out to a random kid in your neighborhood, and suddenly having a bunch of kids following you around everywhere demanding that they deserve one too.

You don't deserve anything! This isn't a matter of deserving something! Everyone seems to care about "skill" and "earning" that they can't handle something being given out for free at all? For fun?

And honestly, I see this as them trying to make the "rare trading card" actually rare. Instead of having someone pay lots and lots of money for boosters, making it the realm of the rich bastards, they're giving everyone a fair chance. And because they're limiting it like this, it's still rare. This is both about diversity and rarity, and you can't have rarity if everyone gets one of the three main hats to find for a class. Once the rarity is lost, all that's left is diversity, and things become less special. Don't you want this to be special? Don't you want these things to be memorable? Not if you can't have one? Why are you so butthurt?

I remember when I first was watching Yugioh, and how the idea of it was really cool. How there were a few rare cards, but not everyone could have them, so you'd need to be able to play well and be awesome without the cards, and that's why I started playing the card game. Unfortunately, I was betrayed by both the publishers of the game, and by all the many people who couldn't stand being one of those without a shiny rare card.

Hell, here's something I ended up writing on the steam forums because I just couldn't hold it in any longer:

"But the rest of you don't get it either, do you, <insert name of whoever I'm talking with>? The system is not wrong. It's a system put in place for something extra to this game service, which for whatever reason many of you feel entitled to. The system is not life or death, does not give advantages or disadvantages, so it can't be "wrong." Disliked, yes, but just because a system is disliked doesn't mean you go around it. You do what you can to change it, or you walk away, but you don't go and do everything you can to get around it. That's fundmenatally wrong, and I didn't know so many PC people were such entitlement douchebags."

I mean, from now on I'm identifying myself as a console gamer that just happens to play a select few games on PC.

This isn't a plead or the asking for discussion and argument or anything. It's obvious that the other side doesn't see it my way, refuses to see it my way, and feel like they were in the right and everyone else and Valve is in the wrong. They don't see how it was wrong to use an external third party program that could spoof their servers.

It's like hacking console systems. Sure you can do it, and it allows you to do something cool with it, and you're not hurting anybody at first, but it's the first step to actually major damaging hacking. That's especially bad for Steam, because it's a platform, and as soon as it's shown to be unreliable and easily to hack and spoof, then guess what? Everyone's gone from Steam, no one but Valve will sell their games anywhere, and that's that. Do you want that? How can you not see these implications just because you feel like it's ok since you're not the doing that last step?

Here's another pointless rant, way too soon after my last one. Respond to this message and I'll be unlikely to respond to save everyone time and energy. At this rate I should start a
blog
private online journal somewhere.
 

Twig

Banned
Inkwell said:
Oh, I'm sorry. I misread your post. Calling me an idiot was uncalled for though.
Fair enough. Don't take it personally. I am an abrasive person. ):

I apologize.
Proven said:
I mean, from now on I'm identifying myself as a console gamer that just happens to play a select few games on PC.
lol wut

Who's elitist now? That is somewhat hypocritical. Or a lot.

Why not just say "I'm a gamer"? It's accurate.

P.S. It is very, very easy to steal Steam games. Has been since the beginning, IIRC. This is nothing new, so I'm not sure what the hell you're even talking about?
 

Proven

Member
TheOneGuy said:
lol wut

Who's elitist now? That is somewhat hypocritical. Or a lot.

Why not just say "I'm a gamer"? It's accurate.

If it's balls to a wall and someone is saying "ARE YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US!?" well, now you know my answer.

Edit: Is it easy to steal games through Steam, or is it easy to steal games that also happen to be on Steam? As far as I know, you don't go through Steam to steal a game that's on Steam.

And a degree of it has to do with exposure.
 

Twig

Banned
Proven said:
If it's balls to a wall and someone is saying "ARE YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US!?" well, now you know my answer.
That is dumb.

There are stupid people everywhere. If you declare yourself a "console gamer" you are siding yourself with just as many stupid, elitist, douchebag, fuckheads as you are if you declare yourself a PC gamer.

Well, actually, you're not siding yourself with any either way, if you don't want to. But I guess you feel this unnecessary desire to be Part of the Team for some reason?

Weird. Very weird.

It is possible to steal Steam games, AFAIK. I've never looked into it, to be honest, but everything and I meant everything I've heard off the cuff has suggested that if I wanted to, it would not be difficult.

First result is some youtube video which I can't watch because I'm on dial up. I will not link it because it says "how to steal" which is... well you know.
 

Firestorm

Member
Kulock said:
Engie's gonna trip! :lol




The idle program in no way increased the odds of people unlocking items. It's not even comparable to the achievement unlocker in that regard. The only thing it did was remove some of the overhead for a braindead, pointless process, for an unlocking system so far entirely based on "be online in game."

It was an external program that tricked servers into thinking it was TF2. That's bad. It didn't "cheat" anything, though. Hence opening the game and getting a pleasant "YOU HAVE BEEN MARKED FOR CHEATING" message and them including a hat specifically designed to flip you off... I really don't know why Valve decided they wanted the drama. And nearly all that "cheating" was just so people could have some of the fun hats they've been showing off.
waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

firex

Member
man, what the hell. I just idled because the hat drop rate was insane and I wanted to see one for myself, because I only saw like, 3 in the entire game and I played it a ton after they were added (just the first wave). I'm not mad about losing the 2 items I got, or even if I had lost hats, but I do hate this whole drop system with no alternatives for it. actually I just hate the drop system altogether and wish they had given us achievements for hats too (or more like, you get all class achievements, so you unlock all 3 hats).

I'm actually more and more frustrated by the shit they keep adding to the game that takes the focus away from being a team-based multiplayer shooter and give it this weird pseudo-MMO feeling.
 
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