Support NeoGAF

[Jarate]

how about this for something to change the system for random drops...

For every kill you get 1 cent

For every captured point or capped intel you get 10 cents

for every win you get you get 30 cent

make the achievement items worth something like a buck or 2 to buy and make hats like 5000 dollars to buy

a skill based system that makes it so people don't have to idle. Sure there will be some cheaters to this situation, but it at least sets up a way for you to actually gain hats based on skill rather than random chance.

 

[erpg]

Or even more simple: http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Points

 

[Jarate]

Or even more simple: http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Points

everybody would play sniper or spy then as they can rack up points with the same amount o kills. Also, my system rewards winning and capturing of points as opposed to just try and killing the other team. This game is about winning as a team, not trying to be Rambo.

 

[Confidence Man]

So are you supposed to get a message that you cheated?

 

[erpg]

everybody would play sniper or spy then as they can rack up points with the same amount o kills. Also, my system rewards winning and capturing of points as opposed to just try and killing the other team. This game is about winning as a team, not trying to be Rambo.

http://steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php

Sniper and Spy are at the bottom of the list. The current points system is fine and rewards people well, especially medics.

 

[me Jojo]

Someone in-game said that Valve will return the weapons in some way. I'd be enlighted to see this happening, since I've got all milestones, and currently only 4 weapons. Their stupid high level weapons glitch made me delete all the standard low level ones to replace them with high(est) level ones, except I got only 2 of those through playing. :/
Anyway, can someone confirm this?

 

[firex]

Someone in-game said that Valve will return the weapons in some way. I'd be enlighted to see this happening, since I've got all milestones, and currently only 4 weapons. Their stupid high level weapons glitch made me delete all the standard low level ones to replace them with high(est) level ones, except I got only 2 of those through playing. :/
Anyway, can someone confirm this?

The blog update doesn't say that, but maybe they will for people who did earn the items but deleted them for higher level ones.

 

[Capndrake]

http://steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php

Sniper and Spy are at the bottom of the list. The current points system is fine and rewards people well, especially medics.

That's just because of crappy Huntsman Snipers and Dead Ringer Spies, prior to that update both were at the top and Snipers/Spies who use the good weapons still generally top the scoreboards.

 

[Azure Dream]

waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Don't cry, it's just ham!

 

[snack]

Someone in-game said that Valve will return the weapons in some way. I'd be enlighted to see this happening, since I've got all milestones, and currently only 4 weapons. Their stupid high level weapons glitch made me delete all the standard low level ones to replace them with high(est) level ones, except I got only 2 of those through playing. :/
Anyway, can someone confirm this?

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=955709

 

[1up]

I got my hat from no idling, and then idled for like a straight week and didnt get anything. Back to just playing lawls.

P.S. The server I play on allows you to equip whatever hat you want with !em, so nobdy cares there, they just play the game.

 

[MisterAnderson]

I love how I didn't start idling till about 3 days ago because I was patiently waiting for Valve to fix their fucked up loot system but now I get punished for not just sitting in a server "legitly" wasting CPU resources. Oh well at least I never got a hat and already earned all the other items legit so I am not really getting punished.

 

[DrForester]

 

[Saige]

I just got all my weapons back after dieing in some random game.
It's good to see that Valve knew they screwed up with just mass deleting items and actually fixed the problem quickly.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Are people actually defending Valve's actions here? It wasn't even cheating, and with no warning it's a bunch of bogus bullshit. If they had said "using the idler program is considered cheating and if you don't stop we will remove your items, etc." I and many other would have stopped. I think a warning is only fair since, like others have said, it's not cheating at all. If it's cheating then the people who idled in-game should also be punished.

Luckily I had already earned the actual items/weapons through getting achievements and random drops. I had just decided that I wanted a hat and figured why not idle while I'm not playing the game since I don't have much time to play the game? I was going to ACTUALLY idle with the TF2 game running but figured I'd go easy on my CPU and use the idle client instead. I don't get why the fuck Valve would care since they have an incompetent system in place that doesn't reward good performance with hats and instead is based entirely on playtime/ridiculous luck.

So dumb.

 

[Holepunch]

Are people actually defending Valve's actions here? It wasn't even cheating, and with no warning it's a bunch of bogus bullshit. If they had said "using the idler program is considered cheating and if you don't stop we will remove your items, etc." I and many other would have stopped. I think a warning is only fair since, like others have said, it's not cheating at all. If it's cheating then the people who idled in-game should also be punished.

Luckily I had already earned the actual items/weapons through getting achievements and random drops. I had just decided that I wanted a hat and figured why not idle while I'm not playing the game since I don't have much time to play the game? I was going to ACTUALLY idle with the TF2 game running but figured I'd go easy on my CPU and use the idle client instead. I don't get why the fuck Valve would care since they have an incompetent system in place that doesn't reward good performance with hats and instead is based entirely on playtime/ridiculous luck.

So dumb.

Using third party software to edit an in-game statistic...cheating. That doesn't mean your points aren't valid, but you were clearly cheating. Yes, going to an idle or achievement server is still cheating, that's just harder to track

For the people calling for Valve to simply introduce a coin or point based, just stop. Its not going to work. You're going to end up with server after server of kill factories. If you made it so the map had to be one by Valve, you would completely screw over the custom maps community.

Ultimately, the best suggestion I've heard thus far is simply have the game give accounts items whether they're playing or not. Yes, pretty much set you up on a permanent idler you never have to deal with. The result is fair for everyone, and no one can grind or abuse it...essentially what Valve has been trying to go for.

 

[Cheeto]

No, what's dumb is getting all bent out of shape over hats. Hats that don't do anything at all. Then crying because Valve didn't like you using a third party program to access their servers: taking away said hats. Waaah, you think the drop rate is too low, so you're entitled to do whatever you feel like to get it. Fucking. Hats.

 

[Twig]

Cheeto: To be fair, for people like me, collecting pointless things like hats is often more fun than collecting other things.

Example: When I play World of Warcraft, I much prefer to get a completely useless vanity non-combat pet over Leet Purpz.

People like different things, mang.

Using third party software to edit an in-game statistic...cheating.

??

But anyway. I can't believe you people are still talking about this shit. You'd think all that back and forth between me and Botolf would make everyone sick of the topic.

 

[Cheeto]

Cheeto: To be fair, for people like me, collecting pointless things like hats is often more fun than collecting other things.

Example: When I play World of Warcraft, I much prefer to get a completely useless vanity non-combat pet over Leet Purpz.

People like different things, mang.

And Valve doesn't like the integrity of their servers and game being compromised. I can't believe how no one can see this from their perspective.

 

[Twig]

And Valve doesn't like the integrity of their servers and game being compromised. I can't believe how no one can see this from their perspective.

All I did was explain why people could be upset, after you went on about why people SHOULDN'T be upset. I said nothing about ANYTHING else. So why the fuck are you bringing this up again?

P.S. But fine, I'll bite: Most people do see it from their perspective. Where most people = me. I just happen to disagree. Stop being so goddamn defensive about something that doesn't affect you in any way shape or form.

 

[VaLiancY]

I was on a killing spree with the Scattergun today. I'm really going to focus on improving my Scout skills because the amount of crits I pulled out my ass today was amazing.

 

[Hazaro]

I was on a killing spree with the Scattergun today. I'm really going to focus on improving my Scout skills because the amount of crits I pulled out my ass today was amazing.

Getting Crits as Scout feels so awesome.

I felt when I played yesterday that my crit rate was higher than it usually was for Scout, which is seemingly like 0.1%

 

[nilbog21]

http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=17095240&postcount=1289

 

[Twig]

http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=17095240&postcount=1289

o lawdy lawd not this shit again

 

[Blizzard]

Using third party software to edit an in-game statistic...cheating. That doesn't mean your points aren't valid, but you were clearly cheating. Yes, going to an idle or achievement server is still cheating, that's just harder to track

You're the second person to say something like this.

Are you saying that it's cheating if I host my own dedicated 2fort server and sit in the spawn instead of chasing people around?

You're saying it's cheating if I go to a server that has a custom map that makes it easier to get achievements?

You're saying it's cheating if I use the official TF2 SDK to create my own map that makes it easier for me to get achievements?

Running a third-party program or a script is one thing, but using the actual game client, game server, and game SDK seems pretty legit to me. (I have only visited an achievement server once or twice, and I enjoyed earning most of the achievements even if some people gripe at you if you mention that you're aiming to get achievements for unlocks)

 

[Sibylus]

I wouldn't be surprised if we got several dozen more hats with the class updates. They don't appear to take all that much time to get working (it's a viewmodel, after all), the testing of the updates and fixes are probably what take the most time.

 

[Twig]

I wouldn't be surprised if we got several dozen more hats with the class updates. They don't appear to take all that much time to get working (it's a viewmodel, after all), the testing of the updates and fixes are probably what take the most time.

Yeah I look forward to it.

Except for the whole backpack thing. I still think that's dumb. I mean, at the very least, if you earn weapons through cheesemints, it would make more sense if they were permanent, and outside the backpack.

Not that I'll ever get enough hats to fill up my backback, of course!! Wop wop!

 

[firex]

The backpack really is dumb if they're going to give people more hats than they will ever be able to hold. I could see it for just weapons if they go back and add more weapons to each class and new achievements or something, but hats are purely cosmetic.

 

[Sibylus]

If space becomes an issue, I would think that Valve would bump up the number of slots, stick another 50 on another "tab" that you could switch quickly over to.

 

[Twig]

I think it makes more sense for hats than for weapons, for exactly that reason. Hats are cosmetic. Weapons are actually useful.

Of course I don't think it's GOOD either way. I just don't see the point in it. Maybe they'll talk about it more in the future and reveal a real purpose, I dunno.

 

[firex]

well, if they ever make higher level weapons more useful for whatever reason or add in some kind of item trading thing like they've promised since June, then I see it making more sense to have a limited inventory for guns. With hats I don't see limited storage making sense because they have no "value" in a competitive/class balancing sense, and are pretty much there to collect, so there's no reason to limit someone's collection like there might be for weapons.

 

[Twig]

True enough!

Shrug.

 

[Azure Dream]

And Valve doesn't like the integrity of their servers and game being compromised. I can't believe how no one can see this from their perspective.

They've had to have known about this for months. How long would a single blog post have taken saying


It may seem obvious it was wrong because of the 3rd party angle, but most idlers didn't figure they were doing any harm, since the idler existed so long without issue, worked fine, and Valve's usually not uptight about the obvious. If it had faked kills or achievements or anything, it would make sense to call it cheating, but there was effectively nothing different on their end, unless it was causing server problems we didn't know about. It didn't improve people's chances of gaining the items, it just replaced them physically running TF2 to the same benefit. And if Valve had even coughed to hint at us to stop, we would have. Hell, I stopped the second I found out about their hidden inventory clearer in the latest update. By then it was too late, though.

 

[Twig]

Oh shit Freakazoid.

Nice.

 

[speedpop]

What I wanna know is where's my Soldier update.

 

[Twig]

for fuck's sake yes soldier update

They better do soldier next I'll cry. CRY.

 

[MisterAnderson]

I for one am not really too upset since like I said, I had already earned the weapons through actual achievement unlocking/game time and never unlocked a hat to be taken away from me from the backback item clearer. I never even would have touched the idler program if I didn't even know it existed, which I'm sure is the reason that most of the TF2 players who took the "moral high road" didn't use it: they simply didn't know about it/don't care about hats/didn't realize how rare the hat drop rate actually was.

The most annoying thing to me is that I didn't start using it up until 3 days ago despite waiting so long to take the "moral high road" but after months of no change to the drop chance, or warnings against using the idler I decided to bite the bullet and go for it, especially since I started playing Arkham Asylum. Figured I might as well try to get hats while I'm playing my PS3 since I'm likely never to get a hat anyway. But of course all of the people who don't even care about getting hats get a free one just to spite those who disagreed with their shitty hat system. Am I a little bitter I didn't get a hat? Yes, you can probably tell that I am, especially since I have only been using the idler for a few days.

And yes it's probably stupid to desire an item that really has no affect on gameplay, but they still look cool. Also, the fact that hats don't affect gameplay is another reason that I refuse to believe that using the idler was "cheating." If you can call sitting in the spawn and not playing "cheating" then that's a clear indication of Valve's retarded hat unlocking method. That is all the idler did, and like I said, the only thing stopping me from just sitting at spawn in servers when I didn't/couldn't play TF2 was I didn't want an inaccurate representation of my class progress report (for playtimes) and alternatively I didn't want to give my CPU a hard time over night by keeping it running so long.

Obviously if there was some unforeseen effect on servers from using the idler that's understandable, but it's not a problem that couldn't have been fixed by at least clearly stating that to the community by telling everyone to stop using it before they need to take serious measures.

And

Spoiler

soldier's update do want

.

 

[Twig]

The most annoying thing to me is that I didn't start using it up until 3 days ago despite waiting so long to take the "moral high road" but after months of no change to the drop chance, or warnings against using the idler I decided to bite the bullet and go for it

Don't worry. I did the same thing (but I started just a tad earlier than you). Even though I never thought there was anything wrong with it, I waited and waited just in case.

Guess I should've waited one more week. Ohoho!

(Blaming Capndrake one more time, for good measure!! youbastard)

(In fact, let's just blame Capndrake for everything. It'll be fun.)

 

[me Jojo]

If only the hat distribution wasn't RANDOM (read: unfair), none of this would've happened.
Apparently all my milestone weapons are back according to tf2items.com. I'll check after work.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

While playing online, I heard a few members say that these Halos are only temporary???

 

[Twig]

While playing online, I heard a few members say that these Halos are only temporary???

Doubtful. I don't know why they'd say that, unless some data miner found a timer or some shit.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So are the halo's the "hats" that were awarded to the non-idlers? Or do they get a halo and an actual class-hat?

 

[snack]

So are the halo's the "hats" that were awarded to the non-idlers? Or do they get a halo and an actual class-hat?

Just a halo.

 

[MisterAnderson]

I personally don't care or desire the halo as I'd never wear it. But the fact that they called it "Cheaters Lament" is a slap in the fucking face and pisses me off. I've never to this day cheated in an online game or single player game unless I had already beaten it and messing around for fun. And I have always respected and loved Valve as a developer, but...

...Fuck you, Valve.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I personally don't care or desire the halo as I'd never wear it. But the fact that they called it "Cheaters Lament" is a slap in the fucking face and pisses me off. I've never to this day cheated in an online game or single player game unless I had already beaten it and messing around for fun. And I have always respected and loved Valve as a developer, but...

...Fuck you, Valve.

??? so why are you so upset about it then?

You didn't cheat, so you probably got it. You played it fair and you're angry that they called it Cheater's Lament when it was probably directed at all those who bitched and moaned and complained about it to Valve. And they did have a point. Though it was Valve's fault to begin with.

 

[Twig]

lawl

I think you misunderstood, Kuro.

OR you're a clever troll. I can't decide. O:

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Bleh nevermind. It's 4:30am right now. I probably misunderstood ...

 

[Volcynika]

TF2 hats. Serious goddam business.

 

[Twig]

MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW.

contextless statement has no context on a new page ohoho

 

[1-D_FTW]

But of course all of the people who don't even care about getting hats get a free one just to spite those who disagreed with their shitty hat system.

You're really stretching with that one. Do you think anyone actually playing the game didn't want some hats? Come on.